Acne.org Products
Okay, here's my prediction, and I won't even fucking write another goddamn thing on this thread until Feb. 2014: NOTHING WILL HAPPEN WITH THIS AND SCARRING IN HUMANS FOR ANOTHER 20 YEARS. NOTHING. IF IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IT WOULD HAVE ALREADY. IF IT WORKED, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIDAL WAVE OF FUNDING. HOW'S THAT FOR A FACT!!!??? TILL THEN WE'LL ALL BE A BIT OLDER AND THE COLLAGEN IN OUR SCARS WILL HAVE CONTINUED TO DEGRADE AND LOOK WORSE.
I'm gonna go have an ice cream now, you guys should find another hobby...
Well, I shouldn't indulge you but whatever. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? There has been a "tidal wave" of funding by the government along with private investors (not with the hydrogel as of yet). The government set up AFIRM with the sole intention of doing exactly what Obama talked about at the SOTU. Close to 285 million spent per year if memory serves me right.
And the organ production/regeneration thing is well on it's way. Just look up Anthony Atala if you need some proof. Granted, it might be years away from implementation but your theorizing that no funding is taking place is baseless and ignorant.
You're upset, you're pissy, you're disappointed, disillusioned, whatever. That's fine. I hope your ice cream is good. Question; why come back in 2014? And if you do respond I'm sure it will be just more CAPSLOCK and random BS. I guess if that makes you happy, go for it.
Hi all - it is a bit disappointing how the hydrogel research has 'moved'
Could these 3 questions be answered by some scientist who has worked on the project:
[1] When they say the skin has 'complete regeneration' does that mean what it sounds like to a person on the street - ie. would the skin return to exactly how it was before scarring, ie look the same - and have the same functionality, ie nerves/sweat etc as before
[2] Some on this thread, including myself, have got/are very hopeful about the fact that this gel resulted in 'complete regeneration' - ie. believe that in the future the discovery might mean a product that can get rid of the scars on our skin - and return it to how it was before we got acne - at this moment is that a mistaken hope - or is there a chance this might happen and more research is needed, or completely unrealistic
[3] We understand the initial trials with hydrogel were in August 2011 - but no follow-up trials have yet been conducted, is there a reason for the delay - are we right/wrong to take this as a sign of what others think of the hydrogel
I understand some of these may have been answered to an extent - but basically - these 3 questions are all that all on here are debating about - and could debate for endlessly - in the end - they need to be answered by someone who carried out research on this project
If someone who is in contact with them could ask these that would be great - I'd email them myself right now - the only thing is I don't want these people to start feeling pestered by our thread.... however, if those in contact say they'd rather I emailed I will
thanks once again to all who've tried to get info
mars
I'm pretty sure all of these have been answered as best they can at this time. I'll try to recap from memory.
1) I don't think they can answer that. Obviously not for humans anyway without testing. I recall chuckstonchew mentioning that both Harmon and Sun said in their responses they believed that to be the case. But again, they shouldn't make that promise at this point. I'd be worried if they did.
2) I believe chuckstonchew has told those involved (Harmon, Sun etc.) about our community and they've responded by saying that it's their belief it would provide regeneration to acne scars. Chuckstonchew can chime in here if I'm mistaken.
3) From the response Harmon has given it seems that it's become a legal issue over ownership of the patent. JHU has their technology transfer but Sun is trying to get the rights to patent exclusively or at least out from under the control of JHU. In recent posts, chuckstonchew has mentioned that Harmon is meeting with JHU lawyers about the matter and how to proceed, which is why the indiegogo idea has not moved forward.
Granted, this is all second-hand knowledge I've gotten through this board via chuckstonchew and his correspondence with Sun and Harmon but I believe I recapped them accurately. Basically we seem to be in a holding pattern until the patent thing gets cleared up and they believe the hydrogel would work for our scars.
@seabs135 - I really hope you are right! I respect everyone's views, and like your contributions to the debate!
@golfpanther - thanks for your detailed response! It's great to have you people to talk this out with & I think these questions are troubling a lot of people so any clearing up is great! 
and yes, would be great to hear @chuckstonchews response and take!
Okay, here's my prediction, and I won't even fucking write another goddamn thing on this thread until Feb. 2014: NOTHING WILL HAPPEN WITH THIS AND SCARRING IN HUMANS FOR ANOTHER 20 YEARS. NOTHING. IF IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IT WOULD HAVE ALREADY. IF IT WORKED, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIDAL WAVE OF FUNDING. HOW'S THAT FOR A FACT!!!??? TILL THEN WE'LL ALL BE A BIT OLDER AND THE COLLAGEN IN OUR SCARS WILL HAVE CONTINUED TO DEGRADE AND LOOK WORSE.
I'm gonna go have an ice cream now, you guys should find another hobby...
Well OK, in that case spinal cord injuries and a heart damage after a heart attack will never be reversible/curable because those problems are essentially the same as skin scarring.
The Race To Cure Spinal Cord Injury
http://propthink.com/the-race-to-cure-spinal-cord-injury/4661
Following a SCI, the nerve cells below the level of injury become disconnected from the brain. This is due to scar tissue which forms in the structure of the damaged area of the spinal cord, blocking messages from the brain to below the level of injury.
Reversing a heart attack: scientists reprogram scar tissue into working muscle
Hi all - it is a bit disappointing how the hydrogel research has 'moved'
Could these 3 questions be answered by some scientist who has worked on the project:
[1] When they say the skin has 'complete regeneration' does that mean what it sounds like to a person on the street - ie. would the skin return to exactly how it was before scarring, ie look the same - and have the same functionality, ie nerves/sweat etc as before
For the mice study, the complete skin regenerated, including the hair, sebaceous glands, and the thickness is the same as normal skins. The newly regenerated skin look the same as the normal skin.
[2] Some on this thread, including myself, have got/are very hopeful about the fact that this gel resulted in 'complete regeneration' - ie. believe that in the future the discovery might mean a product that can get rid of the scars on our skin - and return it to how it was before we got acne - at this moment is that a mistaken hope - or is there a chance this might happen and more research is needed, or completely unrealistic
Some scientists have been working toward perfect skin regeneration,and other than this hydrogel, some are working on other hydrogels for complete skin regeneration. Hydrogel is so far a great candidate for skin regeneration.
[3] We understand the initial trials with hydrogel were in August 2011 - but no follow-up trials have yet been conducted, is there a reason for the delay - are we right/wrong to take this as a sign of what others think of the hydrogel
No money, no research can be done.
I understand some of these may have been answered to an extent - but basically - these 3 questions are all that all on here are debating about - and could debate for endlessly - in the end - they need to be answered by someone who carried out research on this project
If someone who is in contact with them could ask these that would be great - I'd email them myself right now - the only thing is I don't want these people to start feeling pestered by our thread.... however, if those in contact say they'd rather I emailed I will
thanks once again to all who've tried to get info
Anyway, I appreciate your concern. People shouldn't get their hopes up too soon.
But people should always have rational expectations built on evidence not perception, one way or another. You should only see what you expect with evidence. It is possible you could break your ankle stepping off a curb, but you do not put a weight of expectation on something that has a probability almost zero. What evidence or logic do you have for hope?
Oh sure. That's why I still keep track of this thread. The hydrogel did do something which is promising and it all seems legitimate... I don't really understand the last question. lol
@lapis lazuli - I see.... - did you email any of the others Sun/Harmon?
No, I didn't.
@wentworthwhile - I spoke to him and that is what he said.
He has no issues with Dr. Sun. I think he and Dr. Sun will still work together through the small business he has formed. He said that with the lawyer and the JHU officials meeting, he hopes to smooth out the process with Johns Hopkins. As Sun stated a while back, I think Johns Hopkins in some way owns rights to the hydrogel... Since they're now pursuing a small business, this would eliminate Johns Hopkins involvement. This is what they're discussing with the officials I presume and this is what needs smoothed out.
Hi Chuckstonchew,
No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.
So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?
Thanks
Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
This hype cycle was so true in the past for so many new technologies and discoveries in so many different fields of science and technology, I believe that this hype cycle could be applied to scarless skin healing too, and as I can see the state of mind of so many people here on this message board is in that phase 'Trough of Disillusionment', so I can say 'Slope of Enlightenment' and 'Plateau of Productivity' phases are yet to come. 
@wentworthwhile - I spoke to him and that is what he said.
He has no issues with Dr. Sun. I think he and Dr. Sun will still work together through the small business he has formed. He said that with the lawyer and the JHU officials meeting, he hopes to smooth out the process with Johns Hopkins. As Sun stated a while back, I think Johns Hopkins in some way owns rights to the hydrogel... Since they're now pursuing a small business, this would eliminate Johns Hopkins involvement. This is what they're discussing with the officials I presume and this is what needs smoothed out.
Hi Chuckstonchew,
No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.
So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?
Thanks
Hey genuine. As I stated before, I most certainly post here as soon as I get any and every update from Harmon. Unfortunately there hasn't been any updates for a while as he's waiting for his lawyer to talk with the JHU officials. I'll be sure to post here as soon as I hear anything from Harmon. I know it sucks it's taking so long as we were gaining momentum after I talked to him on the phone. But we've done everything in our power and all we can do now is wait. It's in Harmon's hands now.
@seabs135 - I really hope you are right! I respect everyone's views, and like your contributions to the debate!
@golfpanther - thanks for your detailed response! It's great to have you people to talk this out with & I think these questions are troubling a lot of people so any clearing up is great!
Mars, my response and take on what?
Sorry, I haven't been visiting the site as much recently as I've been trying not to think about my scars and have been chilling out on giving them so much attention...
At least until I get an update from Harmon, then its back to business.
Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
This hype cycle was so true in the past for so many new technologies and discoveries in so many different fields of science and technology, I believe that this hype cycle could be applied to scarless skin healing too, and as I can see the state of mind of so many people here on this message board is in that phase 'Trough of Disillusionment', so I can say 'Slope of Enlightenment' and 'Plateau of Productivity' phases are yet to come.
That's awesome. 
Yeah, just read comments from Rez77:
The newspapers seize on any headline just to generate buzz, even the new york times. How many times have you read "scientists closer than ever to a cure for baldness" -they've been touting that shit since 1980 at least. 30 years later, we're not even a step closer.
And from Seabs:
Regarding the article I think I've scanned that in the past, but I dont now take any notice of journalistic rolling predictions (e.g. we promise this in x amount of time in 2003, 2004, 2005 and so on, renovo), or future sounding stuff. I only judge by results and logic.
Both of them are totally right, media reports are always responsible for the overestimation of new technologies, in that 'peak' phase even reputable newspapers like NY Times are full of BS, then after the bubble bursts there are a lot of disappointments with the new technology, then people tend to underestimate the new technology, I think that Gartner hype cycle was very relevant for many new discoveries in medical science through history (like isolated insulin for diabetes, recombinant DNA, gene therapy, gene sequencing for diagnostics,...), it is probably relevant for scarless skin healing, it expains A LOT!
Regarding the article I think I've scanned that in the past, but I dont now take any notice of journalistic rolling predictions (e.g. we promise this in x amount of time in 2003, 2004, 2005 and so on, renovo), or future sounding stuff. I only judge by results and logic.
Both of them are totally right, media reports are always responsible for the overestimation of new technologies, in that 'peak' phase even reputable newspapers like NY Times are full of BS, then after the bubble bursts there are a lot of disappointments with the new technology, then people tend to underestimate the new technology, I think that Gartner hype cycle was very relevant for many new discoveries in medical science through history (like isolated insulin for diabetes, recombinant DNA, gene therapy, gene sequencing for diagnostics,...), it is probably relevant for scarless skin healing, it expains A LOT!
These predictions use 'theory' they have no standards of an established control, they have no results, they use weasel terms. If everything stated, is actually in results; then nothing is over estimated.
if I was using a graph here I would regard the gel as a j shape btw.
Another hydrogel for treatment of a heart attack, clinical trials will begin in this year:
New Injectable Hydrogel Encourages Regeneration and Improves Functionality After a Heart Attack
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/new_injectable_hydrogel_encourages_regeneration_and_improves_functionality
Our data show that this hydrogel can increase cardiac muscle and reduce scar tissue in the region damaged by the heart attack, which prevents heart failure. These results suggest this may be a novel minimally invasive therapy to prevent heart failure after a heart attack in humans.
Geretch, Harmon and Sun should set up a small business like this one:
http://ventrixheart.com/the-science-of-ventrix/
The Science of VentrixHeart failure following a heart attack is a leading cause of death in the Western World. After a heart attack, cells in the heart die and the natural scaffolding that surrounds them, the extracellular matrix (ECM), is degraded and eliminated.
The heart has a very limited regenerative capacity and the area damaged by a heart attack is eventually replaced by scar tissue. The heart can then go through a downward progression in which it gradually loses the ability to function and effectively pump the amount of blood the body needs. This progression often leads to heart failure (HF).
Recent reports demonstrate that after a heart attack (or acute myocardial infarction (AMI)), 30% to 45% of patients will progress to heart failure (HF). The estimated direct and indirect healthcare expenditures for patients with this condition nears $26 billion annually in the US.
Currently, no products are available to specifically address the problem of the progression to heart failure after a heart attack. However, heart failure may be prevented if the damaged heart tissue can be repaired or regenerated. There is a need to bridge the gap in care between the heart attack and late-stage heart failure.
Ventrix is focused on delivering products for cardiac repair for heart attack patients who currently have very limited treatment options. A scaffold solution offers cardiac repair and regeneration that can prevent the progression toward heart failure and offer patients a longer and better quality of life.
Ventrix has developed a product, VentriGel, that is designed to replace and mimic native cardiac ECM. By replacing native cardiac ECM with VentriGelTM, the environment within the heart becomes ideal for the repair of the heart.
Geretch, Harmon and Sun should set up a small business like this one:
http://ventrixheart.com/the-science-of-ventrix/
The Science of Ventrix
Heart failure following a heart attack is a leading cause of death in the Western World. After a heart attack, cells in the heart die and the natural scaffolding that surrounds them, the extracellular matrix (ECM), is degraded and eliminated.
The heart has a very limited regenerative capacity and the area damaged by a heart attack is eventually replaced by scar tissue. The heart can then go through a downward progression in which it gradually loses the ability to function and effectively pump the amount of blood the body needs. This progression often leads to heart failure (HF).
Recent reports demonstrate that after a heart attack (or acute myocardial infarction (AMI)), 30% to 45% of patients will progress to heart failure (HF). The estimated direct and indirect healthcare expenditures for patients with this condition nears $26 billion annually in the US.
Currently, no products are available to specifically address the problem of the progression to heart failure after a heart attack. However, heart failure may be prevented if the damaged heart tissue can be repaired or regenerated. There is a need to bridge the gap in care between the heart attack and late-stage heart failure.
Ventrix is focused on delivering products for cardiac repair for heart attack patients who currently have very limited treatment options. A scaffold solution offers cardiac repair and regeneration that can prevent the progression toward heart failure and offer patients a longer and better quality of life.
Ventrix has developed a product, VentriGel, that is designed to replace and mimic native cardiac ECM. By replacing native cardiac ECM with VentriGelTM, the environment within the heart becomes ideal for the repair of the heart.
why didn't they do this?
It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
some doctors use punch graft to take skin from the back of the ear and place it in the scar
It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
>It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
some doctors use punch graft to take skin from the back of the ear and place it in the scar
Thanks for the info but it's not what I asked for. I mean artificial (fake) human skin they use it for burn victims, so I'm wondering maybe it could prevent scar from forming after being cut out.
It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
That whole thing is also in its infancy, I think. The artifical skin. It at least isn't something that you can get done today without any issues or risks or spending tons of money...I think. 
It may be a stupid question but how about artificial human skin? for example if you have keloid scar surgically removed and artificial skin graft, could this prevent keloid from returning after surgery?
That whole thing is also in its infancy, I think. The artifical skin. It at least isn't something that you can get done today without any issues or risks or spending tons of money...I think.
I wouldn't say that this thing is still in it's infancy, look at this http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-07/08/a-step-towards-mass-produced-artificial-skin
and it's not that expensive either http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-07/scientists-design-technique-artificial-skin-mass-production
I wouldn't say that this thing is still in it's infancy, look at this http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-07/08/a-step-towards-mass-produced-artificial-skin
and it's not that expensive either http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-07/scientists-design-technique-artificial-skin-mass-production
Four years may seem long to you but relatively speaking it is not when you speak of medical advancement. I don't think so at least. These things take forever to perfect. Just my opinion.
You can't go to the doctor right now and get it done in any case. Can you?
I wouldn't say that this thing is still in it's infancy, look at this http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-07/08/a-step-towards-mass-produced-artificial-skin
and it's not that expensive either http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-07/scientists-design-technique-artificial-skin-mass-production
Four years may seem long to you but relatively speaking it is not when you speak of medical advancement. I don't think so at least. These things take forever to perfect. Just my opinion.
You can't go to the doctor right now and get it done in any case. Can you?
Well I don't know if you can, I have red article where girl had a large pigmentation mark on left thigh and doctor performed this artificial skin graft successfully.
If you don't believe here it is it's in lithuanian use google translator http://kauno.diena.lt/dienrastis/priedai/sveikata/dirbtine-oda-perversmo-lietuvoje-nepadare-374793
Hi Chuckstonchew,
No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.
So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?
Thanks
Hey genuine. As I stated before, I most certainly post here as soon as I get any and every update from Harmon. Unfortunately there hasn't been any updates for a while as he's waiting for his lawyer to talk with the JHU officials. I'll be sure to post here as soon as I hear anything from Harmon. I know it sucks it's taking so long as we were gaining momentum after I talked to him on the phone. But we've done everything in our power and all we can do now is wait. It's in Harmon's hands now.
Hi Chuckstonchew,
I guess there is still no word from Harmon. This hydrogel seems like such a no-brainer i'm finding it difficult to understand the slow progress. Even the Facebook page, which is really good, hasn't taken off as i thought it would. Guess I'll continue to try and spread the word.
Did Harmon ever tell you about the small business he formed?
Hi Chuckstonchew,
No word from Prof Harmon or just no progress to report? I would be gratetful, as I'm sure many others would, if you could let us know when you speak to him, even if there is no prgress to report (just a sentence or two). Unfortunately all we can do right now is wait. Being kept in the loop might make the wait more bearable.
So Harmon has already created the small business? What did he call it. Did he say Dr Sun was definitely on board?
Thanks
Hey genuine. As I stated before, I most certainly post here as soon as I get any and every update from Harmon. Unfortunately there hasn't been any updates for a while as he's waiting for his lawyer to talk with the JHU officials. I'll be sure to post here as soon as I hear anything from Harmon. I know it sucks it's taking so long as we were gaining momentum after I talked to him on the phone. But we've done everything in our power and all we can do now is wait. It's in Harmon's hands now.
Hi Chuckstonchew,
I guess there is still no word from Harmon. This hydrogel seems like such a no-brainer i'm finding it difficult to understand the slow progress. Even the Facebook page, which is really good, hasn't taken off as i thought it would. Guess I'll continue to try and spread the word.
Did Harmon ever tell you about the small business he formed?
The last time Chuckstonchew answered this question I'm sure he said he is meeting lawyers.
BTW this is clearly is a factual no brainer, but the problem we have on here is every time we all try to inform and interest people, the information sometimes gets smoked over... Also regarding the facebook page, its kind of like one billboard on a street corner in a big city at the momet but with little other media alongside it.