Maldition, You have been showing a lot of interest towards making this hydrogel. I thought I will share whatever I have read so far -

 

They said "We dissolved Dex-AE/PEGDA at the ratio of 60/40 and 80/20 (means Dex-AE80% and PEGDA20%)

into phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) containing 0.1% (wtˆ•wt)

2-methyl-1-[4-(hydroxyethoxy)phenyl]-2-methyl-1-propanone

(Irgacure 2959, Ciba). The mixture was pipetted into a sterile

mold (70-¼L volume per well) to obtain discs measuring 8 mm

in diameter by 2 mm in thickness and photopolymerized (approximately 10 mWˆ•cm2

of UV light for 10 min; Black-Ray, UVP).

We removed the resulting hydrogels from the mold and immersed

them in sterile PBS solution before application onto wounds."

 

The above steps has two ratios - one is 60/40 and other is 80/20. 80/20 ratio is shown to be more effective in skin re-generation in mice.

 

The wounds, after applying the hydrogel on them were covered with dressings which are easily available in market.

 

From what I read and what I imagine, we would need the following to give any realistic shot at preparing the hydrogel -

 

1) Dex-AE (Dextan Allyl Iso cynatae Ethylamine) (needs dextran, other chemicals and lab setup to be synthesized) - This is not available in market and needs to be synthesized in a lab. Looks to be a possible but little complicated and time consuming procedure. The following paper by Dr.Sun discusses the procedure. There are many variables in this preparation procedure depending on which, some properties of final Dex-AE synthesized may vary. I don't know which variant of the Dex-AE was used in the experiment with Mice. If anybody does, I would be glad to know.

 

Synthesis, characterization of biodegradable dextran“allyl isocyanate“ethylamine/polyethylene glycol“diacrylate hydrogels and their in vitro release of albumin

 

http://www.sciencedi...144861706000221

 

 

2) PEGDA/Poly ethylene glycol diacrylate - The good news is PEGDA is available in the market (available in sigmaaldrich.com and it looks like anyone can order this), but the bad news is Sigma provides three variants of it, based on molecular weight I guess (Mn250, Mn575 and Mn700). Again, i don't know which one of these, if one of these was used in the experiment with Mice. Another alternative is what they did at JHU lab - they synthesized their own PEGDA. The above paper discusses the synthesis of PEGDA too and it looks like there are not many variants in the procedure, so it should be fairly less complicated.

3) Phosphate buffered Saline.

4)Photoinitiator - 2-methyl-1-[4-(hydroxyethoxy)phenyl]-2-methyl-1-propanone (Irgacure 2959, Ciba) - Looks like available in Ciba

5) UV light source ( I don't know what wavelength was the light source, if the wavelength mattered at all - Again, i would be glad to know if someone already knows this)

6) A bio tech student/scientist who has access to a state of the art bio tech lab facility and who would be ready to do this.

 

And last, even if we somehow manage to get this hydrogel synthesized in the lab, i would definitely give it a very hard look before even considering testing it on my boss And lets not forget that testing this on humans might be illegal and we don't exactly know if it will make the scar disappear or the man disappear

 

thank you so much for this post...,

chuckstonchew can communicate with Dr Harmon...so maybe he can ask for you the following

a) which Dex-Ae variant was used in the mice experiment

b)the wave length of UV light(and if it matters)

those things should be asked in a sense of a more complete description of the procedure..

just on the procedure: one if the members the the burn survivors page pointed out that the technology was too late for him. How would he be able to use it if he had large burns on the face?

 

Well I'm not sure, I think the hydrogel is usable only for small burns, it's hard for me to imagine that a surgeon can remove half of a patient's facial skin, apply the hydrogel and then expects that the patient will get completely regenerated facial skin, it's just not realistic. But with larger burns maybe it is feasible for the surgeon to remove part by part of the burn, at least if the burn is not too large, it is the fact that the burn on the mouse was 12mm in diameter but only 8mm in the center was surgically removed and then completely regenerated, I could assume that the rest of the burn could be easily regenerated with one or more additional surgical interventions, however I'm not an expert, it is my personal commonsense reasoning, I'm not sure if it is correct or not.

Hi

My conversation with Dr. Harmon went absolutely perfect today. The fire has been lit.

 

The main thing we discussed was crowd funding. He really likes the idea.

He said he was frustrated with everything prior to our conversation, but he is now very excited again.

 

He's discussing this option with his colleagues. He said he's not going to take no for an answer easily and will go all the way to the dean if he has to. He seems like a great guy that really wants to help people. I have confidence in him and I know he will do all he can.

 

The ball is in their court again, but Harmon will try to do something with it as soon as possible. At this point, we must just be patient and wait for them to okay our full blown movement. Everyone continue to formulate ideas of how we will make this as big as possible if/when he gives us the go ahead. Don't worry about sending anyone anymore emails or anything like that - I now have Harmon's cell phone number so if we ever need to know anything, he said not to hesitate to call him.

 

Not to be overly optimistic, but I might see a silver lining...

 

Hi,

chuckstonchew - That's good news that Dr Harmon spoke to you. Really appreciate your perseverance.

So the issue is really one of funding? Is that what Dr Harmon said he was fustrated about? Nothing about the politics Guoming Sun had mentioned?

I've got an idea that, if it worked, could really get this thing going. This may seem out-there but imagine if someone like an Oprah Winfrey heard about this. Imagine what she could do to get this thing going (imagine the contacts she would be able to call on and the funding she could generate). For me this whole thing is about helping to reduce/eliminate the suffering that scarring can have, both physical and psychological. If she knew the number of people this hydrogel could help (war verterans, children etc...) i'm sure she could do something. If successful the hydrogel could generate tens of million of dollars, it's not that risky an invest. Also, I'd much prefer someone who could help steer this that is not so interested in making a profit and is more compassionate.

Maybe I'm dreaming but they must get new worthy causes from somewhere, why not this. But how could we get her attention? Maybe just tell the truth. A lot of research into scarring and its psychological impact has been gone. We'd just have to package it up in the right way.

What do you guys think?

One time Oprah said in her show that it might be a good thing for people to eat less meat and many, many people stopped eating meat for a while. I was amazed at the amount of influence she had. I think "they" put a stop to that (the dramatic decrease in meat consumption) as it was starting to affect the economy.

Maldition, You have been showing a lot of interest towards making this hydrogel. I thought I will share whatever I have read so far -

 

They said "We dissolved Dex-AE/PEGDA at the ratio of 60/40 and 80/20 (means Dex-AE80% and PEGDA20%)

into phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) containing 0.1% (wtˆ•wt)

2-methyl-1-[4-(hydroxyethoxy)phenyl]-2-methyl-1-propanone

(Irgacure 2959, Ciba). The mixture was pipetted into a sterile

mold (70-¼L volume per well) to obtain discs measuring 8 mm

in diameter by 2 mm in thickness and photopolymerized (approximately 10 mWˆ•cm2

of UV light for 10 min; Black-Ray, UVP).

We removed the resulting hydrogels from the mold and immersed

them in sterile PBS solution before application onto wounds."

 

The above steps has two ratios - one is 60/40 and other is 80/20. 80/20 ratio is shown to be more effective in skin re-generation in mice.

 

The wounds, after applying the hydrogel on them were covered with dressings which are easily available in market.

 

From what I read and what I imagine, we would need the following to give any realistic shot at preparing the hydrogel -

 

1) Dex-AE (Dextan Allyl Iso cynatae Ethylamine) (needs dextran, other chemicals and lab setup to be synthesized) - This is not available in market and needs to be synthesized in a lab. Looks to be a possible but little complicated and time consuming procedure. The following paper by Dr.Sun discusses the procedure. There are many variables in this preparation procedure depending on which, some properties of final Dex-AE synthesized may vary. I don't know which variant of the Dex-AE was used in the experiment with Mice. If anybody does, I would be glad to know.

 

Synthesis, characterization of biodegradable dextran“allyl isocyanate“ethylamine/polyethylene glycol“diacrylate hydrogels and their in vitro release of albumin

 

http://www.sciencedi...144861706000221

 

 

2) PEGDA/Poly ethylene glycol diacrylate - The good news is PEGDA is available in the market (available in sigmaaldrich.com and it looks like anyone can order this), but the bad news is Sigma provides three variants of it, based on molecular weight I guess (Mn250, Mn575 and Mn700). Again, i don't know which one of these, if one of these was used in the experiment with Mice. Another alternative is what they did at JHU lab - they synthesized their own PEGDA. The above paper discusses the synthesis of PEGDA too and it looks like there are not many variants in the procedure, so it should be fairly less complicated.

3) Phosphate buffered Saline.

4)Photoinitiator - 2-methyl-1-[4-(hydroxyethoxy)phenyl]-2-methyl-1-propanone (Irgacure 2959, Ciba) - Looks like available in Ciba

5) UV light source ( I don't know what wavelength was the light source, if the wavelength mattered at all - Again, i would be glad to know if someone already knows this)

6) A bio tech student/scientist who has access to a state of the art bio tech lab facility and who would be ready to do this.

 

And last, even if we somehow manage to get this hydrogel synthesized in the lab, i would definitely give it a very hard look before even considering testing it on my boss And lets not forget that testing this on humans might be illegal and we don't exactly know if it will make the scar disappear or the man disappear

 

Thanks for the info!

For everyone asking, yes - funding is the main issue. I think any other issues can be overcame, again he said if anything stands in the way he'll go all the way to the dean. Harmon did mention he still communicates with Sun too.

@genuine - You're not dreaming. If Harmon gives us the go ahead on crowd funding, we will spread the word to everyone, that includes every celebrity we can get ahold of, and that includes Oprah.

@wentworthwhile - We didn't discuss a facebook page, but I think that'll obviously be very helpful when its time to spread the fire and get a movement going for crowd funding. For now though, don't put too much info on there as Harmon is still going to talk to his colleagues and make sure they are up for this. We don't want to move too fast or give insights that they would prefer not to be released. So I wouldn't talk about crowd funding just yet or really even that we're talking to JHU. Just keep it simple for now until the rest of Johns Hopkins is aware of our team and what we're doing. Just say we're raising awareness and demand to help move their project along.

And lets not forget that testing this on humans might be illegal and we don't exactly know if it will make the scar disappear or the man disappear

 

With the WIPO patent they filed, I'm quite certain it would be illegal in most of the countries in the world to create it and use it. However, there are several countries that aren't part of WIPO and thus, legality wouldn't be an issue in these countries - for example - Taiwan, Argentina and Saudi Arabia.

Hi all. I have been following this forum for years now and just wanted to come on and say a big thank you to all of you who are doing so much hard work to try and make a scarfree future for all of us a reality. When the day comes and we get the solution by hydrogel or another means our debt will be huge not only to the scientists/company that come out with the product or device but also with the members here which are donating so much time and effort into this cause. From getting in touch with dr harmon to creating the facebook page etc. Id like to presonally thank you (you know who your are) who are doing so much over towards this. I know the day is around the corner where we all will get our lifes back again.

My problem has been caused by years of self harm through skin picking through anxiety and depression and have many scars all over my body. Do you think my scars can be fixed? I have them all over my body. It is a real comfort to know we have the hope of returning to our old self again.

Anyway thanks again for all your efforts and if I can be of any help in anyway please do not hesitate to get in touch with me on here.

Hope all of you get happy healthy 2013

My problem has been caused by years of self harm through skin picking through anxiety and depression and have many scars all over my body. Do you think my scars can be fixed? I have them all over my body. It is a real comfort to know we have the hope of returning to our old self again.

 

The thought of returning ourselves and others to normalcy is what fuels us to keep doing whatever we can to move this forward. It is a warm, comforting feeling no doubt. If the hydrogel works on humans like it did mice, your scars could definitely be fixed.

Anyway thanks again for all your efforts and if I can be of any help in anyway please do not hesitate to get in touch with me on here.

Hope all of you get happy healthy 2013

 

Keep checking in on this forum, as we get closer to starting a movement for crowd funding we'll need all of the help we can get!!

Thanks for replying. Anything I can do just ask It will be my pleasure to help this great cause in anyway possible. Im 25 this march and hopefully by the time im 35 or younger I and millions of others like us will be sorted. Again do not hesitate to ask for any assistance wanted I will do my best to help.

Hi

 

My conversation with Dr. Harmon went absolutely perfect today. The fire has been lit.

 

The main thing we discussed was crowd funding. He really likes the idea.

He said he was frustrated with everything prior to our conversation, but he is now very excited again.

 

He's discussing this option with his colleagues. He said he's not going to take no for an answer easily and will go all the way to the dean if he has to. He seems like a great guy that really wants to help people. I have confidence in him and I know he will do all he can.

 

The ball is in their court again, but Harmon will try to do something with it as soon as possible. At this point, we must just be patient and wait for them to okay our full blown movement. Everyone continue to formulate ideas of how we will make this as big as possible if/when he gives us the go ahead. Don't worry about sending anyone anymore emails or anything like that - I now have Harmon's cell phone number so if we ever need to know anything, he said not to hesitate to call him.

 

Not to be overly optimistic, but I might see a silver lining...

 

 

Hi,

 

chuckstonchew - That's good news that Dr Harmon spoke to you. Really appreciate your perseverance.

 

So the issue is really one of funding? Is that what Dr Harmon said he was fustrated about? Nothing about the politics Guoming Sun had mentioned?

 

I've got an idea that, if it worked, could really get this thing going. This may seem out-there but imagine if someone like an Oprah Winfrey heard about this. Imagine what she could do to get this thing going (imagine the contacts she would be able to call on and the funding she could generate). For me this whole thing is about helping to reduce/eliminate the suffering that scarring can have, both physical and psychological. If she knew the number of people this hydrogel could help (war verterans, children etc...) i'm sure she could do something. If successful the hydrogel could generate tens of million of dollars, it's not that risky an invest. Also, I'd much prefer someone who could help steer this that is not so interested in making a profit and is more compassionate.

 

Maybe I'm dreaming but they must get new worthy causes from somewhere, why not this. But how could we get her attention? Maybe just tell the truth. A lot of research into scarring and its psychological impact has been gone. We'd just have to package it up in the right way.

 

What do you guys think?

 

genuine123 definately need to get high profile people involved! Not only that they have so much influence but i think they might have a scar or two they want fixing. Ive tried contacting a few people on facebook but i dont think that will cut it. They probably have their managers or someone else looking after their pages, or maybe posts that look like advertising get ignored. Hard to get the info to the right people. Maybe someone out there knows the right way to do this!??

Thanks for replying. Anything I can do just ask It will be my pleasure to help this great cause in anyway possible. Im 25 this march and hopefully by the time im 35 or younger I and millions of others like us will be sorted. Again do not hesitate to ask for any assistance wanted I will do my best to help.

 

hi reddragon i really hope yours and all of our scar issues could be resolved in that time! As far as helping i think all the rest of us can do for now (besides anyone who can cook up the recipe themselves!) is to get more likers for the facebook page, let people know in scar forums etc. The more people that know about the research now the less time we waste trying to spread the word later if we do get the go ahead for crowd funding. A less specific place to chat about it is probably a good idea too. Maybe we can find a forum with a large number of members already?

Thanks for replying. Anything I can do just ask It will be my pleasure to help this great cause in anyway possible. Im 25 this march and hopefully by the time im 35 or younger I and millions of others like us will be sorted. Again do not hesitate to ask for any assistance wanted I will do my best to help.

 

We'll be good in a decade. I can't wait that long though! Good thing is, with the hydrogel, is that it's a medical device - meaning if it works it in the remaining trials, it won't be long at all before it's available. Dr. Sun even said that it could be approved in as little as 3 months. So if they/we get the funds together, we could potentially see this within the year. That's optimistic but its possible. And I'm going to continue to be optimistic - The law of attraction!

 

Thanks for replying. Anything I can do just ask It will be my pleasure to help this great cause in anyway possible. Im 25 this march and hopefully by the time im 35 or younger I and millions of others like us will be sorted. Again do not hesitate to ask for any assistance wanted I will do my best to help.

 

 

We'll be good in a decade. I can't wait that long though! Good thing is, with the hydrogel, is that it's a medical device - meaning if it works it in the remaining trials, it won't be long at all before it's available. Dr. Sun even said that it could be approved in as little as 3 months. So if they/we get the funds together, we could potentially see this within the year. That's optimistic but its possible. And I'm going to continue to be optimistic - The law of attraction!

 

haha glad you are being that optimistic as i dont fancy waiting that long either!

anyway will be recommended before scar revision using vitamin C supplements more zinc to help good wound healing or acceleration and help hydrogel. perhaps also the use of antibiotics by microbes as some will use this large wound round or no chance of closing with sutures.

By the way should close a wound a few centimeters as the mouse with hydrogel suture and then apply? or is it better to leave it open and apply hydrogel? that is something that will have to prove the scientists in testing to see which regenerates better as sutures generate inflammation and scar

Scientists will see if the antibiotics interact positively or negatively with hydrogel. and should also see if the sutures interac positively or negatively with hydrogel, whether or not to use or whether to leave the wound open (wide wound) and apply directly hydrogel.

hydrogel having just the beginning ... then you have to know how to use to get good results, so I understand that the test phases are important, especially after coming in pigs human, I guess that will be the most extensive.

by the way, I am against this absurd theory that 'if cured within 21 days does not scar' ... my scars forever cured me in less than 21 day, and always be the same scar, the scar is a genetic factor, also made its width. day can influence but not enough say.

would have to do exactly what they mean by 'cure', whether for them 'cure' is like when one year passes and the scar and looks completely white? or when the scar passes one week and finished gluing and the sutures are removed.

I really want to see is as hydrogel function in people with hypertrophic scars (which many people have and do not know even about having small injuries), or healing defects as diabetes. mice have no hypertrophic scarring thus can not know until proven in humans. since in this type of healing there are more problems and there are more factors that regulate probably hydrogel young people function without abnormal scarring problems.

what is 80/20? 20% hydrogel? 80%? or what?

80/20 is the best combination? (there are more combinations)

 

 

is necessary to apply the transparent cover that? the only function of this cover is to not move the hydrogel in the wound site?

 

Level of porosity is different, here on page 2 you can see 8020 and 6040 hydrogel pictures under the microscope:

http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2011/12/14/1115973108.DCSupplemental/pnas.1115973108_SI.pdf

http://www.mrs.org/hydrogel-heals-wounds/

In the absence of a comprehensive understanding of what is happening in these experiments, Gerecht is careful not to attribute their success to one property of the dextran hydrogel, such as the degree of crosslinking, pore size, or stiffness. We think it is a combination of the structure of the material and the composition that allows the inflammatory cells to penetrate the hydrogel and start the regeneration processwe think that is the key thing, basically, she concludes.

Someone asked earlier what makes this hydrogel so different and so better than every other hydrogel, I guess this is the answer.

And another user also spoke of a factor (VEGF or something can not remember) as key to growing tissues, would be good discussion among the users here because this hydrogel may work and others that are similar do not work, I say to pass the time.

my adrenaline really generate this, think that may fail is catastrophic for me, so I think there must be something that is key to its operation. not if VEGF or whatever, but it has to be something inside that makes ordering hydrogel regeneration.

80/20 hydrogel has larger pore size than 60/40 hydrogel, obviously that is the reason why it is more effective than 60/40 hydrogel, and they said they would make some additional fine-tuning of the hydrogel (dr. Harmon said they will add antibiotics into it and make it more sticky), is there a chance they will somehow further increase pore size?

I just hope that antibiotics do not cause the body to take it as a foreign body, there is a phrase that says 'if something works well just not have to touch anything', if this works well (although some scar generates they said), I see no reason to improve it, but of course, another version of more extensive hydrogel wound with antibiotic incorporated It would not hurt. the important thing is to hurry to get the hydrogel based on sale and then entertain other hydrogels improved in testing.

I just hope that 'dr hamon' not feel like playing games and know that there are people desperate for years wants his life and needed solutions, and to take their hydrogel for sale and then get other hydrogels improved.

by the way where are all on facebook? need to support the product and bring people to support it please. The more people, faster.

In August it will be 2 years since they made the initial discovery :/

Part of me is encouraged by all the recent updates - part of me not...

Good points - they have applied to the Government for further funding & they have applied to the army for further funding - so they must believe these further tests are worth doing - plus the researcher who left the team wants to work on it on his own - also a good sign

The bad points - why haven't they got funding? With all the foundations out there and charities you'd think they'd actively want to give money to something so promising [although it could be that you can only apply for one of these grants at a time and their decision process might take months? I don't know...]

Also - as I said - in August it will be two years in which - from what I know - they have done no follow-on research - just left dead space between the discovery and what could have been the next stage experiments - I know the world is not perfect - but this is just depressing...

My worst fear is that it will just go on like this for years, 'in a few months...' 'in a few months...' with no end result

Chuckenstow - thanks so much for the actual contact with the lab - it is good also of the doctor to interact with us... I just hope by March there is some news of some next stage actual experiment that will occur...

Someone could consult a biologist how viable is to make a copy of the hydrogel and how long it would take to do it? and the approximate cost? and bring it here to the forum to tell or copy and paste the conversation.

I have noticed that there are many people who just come to read and do not contribute, do not write, do not participate. so when I have important information (such as when I have information on the response of the biologist on my query the hydrogel), only share it with people by private (people involved here in the forum and handles keep it alive and shares information and works by hydrogel).

Someone could consult a biologist how viable is to make a copy of the hydrogel and how long it would take to do it? and the approximate cost? and bring it here to the forum to tell or copy and paste the conversation.

 

 

 

 

I have noticed that there are many people who just come to read and do not contribute, do not write, do not participate. so when I have important information (such as when I have information on the response of the biologist on my query the hydrogel), only share it with people by private (people involved here in the forum and handles keep it alive and shares information and works by hydrogel).

 

I don't know any research student or bio-tech pro. Anybody?

Another option is that someone near/from a university may try to establish contact to students in this field who might be interested in doing this.

our latest facebook liker is Dr Sun!

our latest facebook liker is Dr Sun!

 

No way! - That's awesome!!!

Harmon was supposed to discuss everything with him yesterday. Him liking the fb page is a great sign!

was just thinking earlier how odd and unfair it could be to patent such an invention that could help so many and then just leave it. Im not saying thats what i think is happening or will happen, but imagine....That would be a complete injustice.

that was just a thought i was pondering over......but im very optimistic about this all!

Yeah, I've battled with that thought for the past year as well. It's disheartening. But I don't think that was ever anyone's intention. And the progress as of recent feels quite promising!

Yeah, I've battled with that thought for the past year as well. It's disheartening. But I don't think that was ever anyone's intention. And the progress as of recent feels quite promising!

 

Has this patent already been granted to JHU? Or is it still under process after filing?