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So Hydrogel is the answer? i think this is the real solution. Let's talk about it.
There's no new info about it online. Not sure whats there to talk about?
Here is the support info. that I dont think was posted...
http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2011/12/14/1115973108.DCSupplemental
BTW I'm sure there was talk on this thread about sugars and scar free healing in the past.
Very exciting for people with scars and those badly burned.
That's one of the more promising after photos I've seen (the one seen in the document that the link which Seabs posted leads to). I've learned to live with what scarring I have but still... If a treatment does come out and it's proven to work, I'd consider it.
But the after picture still shows damage? It's hairless and whitish, am I missin something here? Also On the first page of the document, doesn't it say how they made it?
That's one of the more promising after photos I've seen (the one seen in the document that the link which Seabs posted leads to). I've learned to live with what scarring I have but still... If a treatment does come out and it's proven to work, I'd consider it.
But the after picture still shows damage? It's hairless and whitish, am I missin something here? Also On the first page of the document, doesn't it say how they made it?
Maybe you're right, I dunno... The fact that it's hairless may just be due to fact that hair needs time to grow though.
That's one of the more promising after photos I've seen (the one seen in the document that the link which Seabs posted leads to). I've learned to live with what scarring I have but still... If a treatment does come out and it's proven to work, I'd consider it.
But the after picture still shows damage? It's hairless and whitish, am I missin something here? Also On the first page of the document, doesn't it say how they made it?
My view Jacno,
if you look at the pdf in the pdf viewer not firefox or IE etc. and then zoom in 300% you will see the control and the other scaffold are still red, yet the hyrdrogel is not.
>>IMO this shows the [hydrogel] wound has finished re-epithelizing and healing after 21 days (and as such because it is in a time frame there can be no scar!) and it looks like the control and the other scaffold will go on to scar.
1. Why do I think the control scaffold and the other non scaffold control will go on to scar? And 2. why do I think the hydrogel has rehealed with no scar?
1. If a wound takes longer than the time frame 3 to 4weeks to heal a scar forms. Clearly the wound is still healing in the control after 21 days.
2. In the hydrogel, there is clearly no scar or more epithilization in under the 21 days to my eyes. There is also no redness at the 21day point. Which shows the wound has epithelized in a key period. Which under normal circumstances without the use of a scaffold would mean if it healed in that time frame, then no scar would form. Also the authors claims are quite clear:
(edit: Just to emphasize how impressive this re-epithalization is: In usual circustances if any re-epithilization happens in under 21 days the wound reepithalized because the wound was superficial; remember this is a full thickness wound from a 3rd degree burn, not the type of burn you'd get with a lazer etc.)
"We were surprised to see such complete regeneration in the absence of any added biological signals," Gerecht said.
John Harmon, a professor of surgery at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and director of surgical research at Bayview, described the mouse study results as "absolutely remarkable. We got complete skin regeneration, which never happens in typical burn wound treatment."
After 21 days, the gel has been harmlessly absorbed, and the tissue continues to return to the appearance of normal skin.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111213131956.htm
"This treatment promoted the development of new blood vessels and the regeneration of complex layers of skin, including hair follicles and the glands that produce skin oil," said Sharon Gerecht,
Gerecht says the hydrogel is constructed in such a way that it allows tissue regeneration and blood vessel formation to occur very quickly. "Inflammatory cells are able to easily penetrate and degrade the hydrogel, enabling blood vessels to fill in and support wound healing and the growth of new tissue," she said. For burns, the faster this process occurs, Gerecht added, the less there is a chance for scarring.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-12/jhu-itb121311.php
To back up what I'm saying here with regards to time frames look at this reference:
Healing in 2 weeks minimal to no scar
Healing in 3 weeks minimal to no scar except in high risk scar formers
Healing in 4 weeks or more hypertrophic in more than 50% of patients
http://www.burnsurge...201/sect_IX.htm
That's one of the more promising after photos I've seen (the one seen in the document that the link which Seabs posted leads to). I've learned to live with what scarring I have but still... If a treatment does come out and it's proven to work, I'd consider it.
But the after picture still shows damage? It's hairless and whitish, am I missin something here? Also On the first page of the document, doesn't it say how they made it?
My view Jacno,
if you look at the pdf in the pdf viewer not firefox or IE etc. and then zoom in 300% you will see the control and the other scaffold are still red, yet the hyrdrogel is not.
>>IMO this shows the [hydrogel] wound has finished re-epithelizing and healing after 21 days (and as such because it is in a time frame there can be no scar!) and it looks like the control and the other scaffold will go on to scar.
1. Why do I think the control scaffold and the other non scaffold control will go on to scar? And 2. why do I think the hydrogel has rehealed with no scar?
1. If a wound takes longer than the time frame 3 to 4weeks to heal a scar forms. Clearly the wound is still healing in the control after 21 days.
2. In the hydrogel, there is clearly no scar or more epithilization under 21 days to my eyes. There is also no redness at the 21day point. Which shows the wound has epithelized in a key period. Which under normal circumstances without the use of a scaffold would mean if it healed in that time frame, then no scar would form. Also the authors claims are quite clear:
"We were surprised to see such complete regeneration in the absence of any added biological signals," Gerecht said.
John Harmon, a professor of surgery at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and director of surgical research at Bayview, described the mouse study results as "absolutely remarkable. We got complete skin regeneration, which never happens in typical burn wound treatment."
After 21 days, the gel has been harmlessly absorbed, and the tissue continues to return to the appearance of normal skin.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111213131956.htm
"This treatment promoted the development of new blood vessels and the regeneration of complex layers of skin, including hair follicles and the glands that produce skin oil," said Sharon Gerecht,
Gerecht says the hydrogel is constructed in such a way that it allows tissue regeneration and blood vessel formation to occur very quickly. "Inflammatory cells are able to easily penetrate and degrade the hydrogel, enabling blood vessels to fill in and support wound healing and the growth of new tissue," she said. For burns, the faster this process occurs, Gerecht added, the less there is a chance for scarring.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-12/jhu-itb121311.php
To back up what I'm saying here with regards to time frames look at this reference:
•Healing in 2 weeks minimal to no scar
•Healing in 3 weeks minimal to no scar except in high risk scar formers
•Healing in 4 weeks or more hypertrophic in more than 50% of patients
http://www.burnsurge...201/sect_IX.htm
So did they excise the burn scar then apply the gel? Or is that a fresh burn? I wasn't to sure of that
So did they excise the burn scar then apply the gel? Or is that a fresh burn? I wasn't to sure of that
I'm sure I read that they burned the mce full thickness, then performed full thickness burn wound excisions after 48hours. Which IMO a full thicknes burn is the same as a full thickness excision anyway, in that both wounds have to regrow the full tissue architecture...
So did they excise the burn scar then apply the gel? Or is that a fresh burn? I wasn't to sure of that
I'm sure I read that they burned the mce full thickness, then performed full thickness burn wound excisions after 48hours. Which IMO a full thicknes burn is the same as a full thickness excision anyway, in that both wounds have to regrow the full tissue architecture...
Oh so I guess when they decide to release it and if it works youd have to excise your acne scars and use the hydro gel
In that PDF it says that they used the gel in combination with Integra wound dressing which I think is made of bovine derived material at least in part. And it's cross-linked which they say means that part of that stuff actually becomes part of you. So when you use it and the wound has healed/your skin has been regenerated you've become part man, part cow. 
I may be wrong though. In any case I wonder if the gel can work with a variety of dressings. Like Ceasar dressings... lol Sorry for the lame joke. 
I'm sure there are also non-crossed linked dressings that don't contain animal derived components. Hopefully they'll work just as well in combination with the gel (that rhymes!).
http://www.scribd.co...n-wound-healing
For comparison purposes, we applied Integra®, a cross-linked bovine tendon collagen and glycosaminoglycan matrix, which is the state-of-the-art treatment currently used for patients with deep burns at the Johns Hopkins Burn Center, to some wounds as the control scaffold and, left others covered only with dressing.
---------------
The scar free wound resulted from a wound covered with the hydrogel, and layered with DuoDerm. The Integra with the cross linked bovine tendon collagen was used as a comparitive. They didn't use the hydrogel with it. The Integra wound did not heal scar free. The Duoderm / Hydrogel did!
When do we find out this hydrogels recipe? Douderm sheeting covered and held the gel in place for the entire treatment- it keep the wound free of bacteria and allowed the gel to do it's thing. Damn I want to find out what this Dextran stuff is, where to get it, how it was mixed with the water based carrier. I dont want to wait 2-5 years and then go through the pain of trying to find this stuff for sale somewhere on the black market.
The cure may damn well be here 
!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin
This may very well be the Polysaccharide used in the hydrogel. At the end of the
the article in my other post there is a list of other findings/claims by Zhang X and Kiyozumi T and others.
Chitosan Hydrogel is mentioned.
When someone claims a new medical application/treatment they must cite and credit other claims that include similar treatments and applications. I might not be wording this right, but all patents tend to do this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin
This may very well be the Polysaccharide used in the hydrogel. At the end of the
the article in my other post there is a list of other findings/claims by Zhang X and Kiyozumi T and others.
Chitosan Hydrogel is mentioned.
When someone claims a new medical application/treatment they must cite and credit other claims that include similar treatments and applications. I might not be wording this right, but all patents tend to do this.
i do not understand you..
hydrogel it works or not?
if hydrogel is the cure to scarless healing , we'll probably have to wait 5-10yrs to be treated and it'll probably cost a shitload..
Whats peoples opinions on copper peptides , on skinbiology a number of people say they've removed scars with strong hydroxy acids , needling and strong copper peptides .
Was wondering why it hasnt been mentioned here much
http://www.scribd.co...n-wound-healing
For comparison purposes, we applied Integra®, a cross-linked bovine tendon collagen and glycosaminoglycan matrix, which is the state-of-the-art treatment currently used for patients with deep burns at the Johns Hopkins Burn Center, to some wounds as the control scaffold and, left others covered only with dressing.
---------------
The scar free wound resulted from a wound covered with the hydrogel, and layered with DuoDerm. The Integra with the cross linked bovine tendon collagen was used as a comparitive. They didn't use the hydrogel with it. The Integra wound did not heal scar free. The Duoderm / Hydrogel did!
When do we find out this hydrogels recipe? Douderm sheeting covered and held the gel in place for the entire treatment- it keep the wound free of bacteria and allowed the gel to do it's thing. Damn I want to find out what this Dextran stuff is, where to get it, how it was mixed with the water based carrier. I dont want to wait 2-5 years and then go through the pain of trying to find this stuff for sale somewhere on the black market.
The cure may damn well be here
According to a few citations this hydrogel does not need much regulatory approval as the stuff in it is not artificial. It should be approved in about 2.5years.
LOL, also regarding the hydrogel recipe you'd need to ensure you made the 5d (80/20 ratio hydrogel not the 60/40). The 80/20 ratio was the one chosen and the one that got the results. In the 80/20, the cell infiltration is more rapid.
http://www.scribd.co...n-wound-healing
For comparison purposes, we applied Integra®, a cross-linked bovine tendon collagen and glycosaminoglycan matrix, which is the state-of-the-art treatment currently used for patients with deep burns at the Johns Hopkins Burn Center, to some wounds as the control scaffold and, left others covered only with dressing.
---------------
The scar free wound resulted from a wound covered with the hydrogel, and layered with DuoDerm. The Integra with the cross linked bovine tendon collagen was used as a comparitive. They didn't use the hydrogel with it. The Integra wound did not heal scar free. The Duoderm / Hydrogel did!
When do we find out this hydrogels recipe? Douderm sheeting covered and held the gel in place for the entire treatment- it keep the wound free of bacteria and allowed the gel to do it's thing. Damn I want to find out what this Dextran stuff is, where to get it, how it was mixed with the water based carrier. I dont want to wait 2-5 years and then go through the pain of trying to find this stuff for sale somewhere on the black market.
The cure may damn well be here
According to a few citations this hydrogel does not need much regulatory approval as the stuff in it is not artificial. It should be approved in about 2.5years.
LOL, also regarding the hydrogel recipe you'd need to ensure you made the 5d (80/20 ratio hydrogel not the 60/40). The 80/20 ratio was the one chosen and the one that got the results. In the 80/20, the cell infiltration is more rapid.
80/20 ?
explain that
80/20 ?
explain that
Using the document 2001 linked. It explains that In Sun and Gerecht et al studies on hydrogels, that two dextran hydrogels were tested. One hydrogel was a 60/40 dextran hydrogel and the other was a 80/20 dextran hydrogel. They found that that the 80/20 hydrogel (the higher ratio of dextran,) had faster cell infiltration.
so Duoderm / Hydrogel : no scar ! (80% duoderm, 20% hydrogel).
if apply only duoderm in a scar: scar. ??????? or not???????
if apply only hydrogel in a scar: scar.
we need bout in 80/20 ratio.
I think the duoderm just keeps the hydrogel in place allowing the rapid cell infiltration. I imagine you could use other dressings to keep the hydrogel fixed in place for the scar free healiong.
so Duoderm / Hydrogel : no scar ! (80% duoderm, 20% hydrogel).
if apply only duoderm in a scar: scar. ??????? or not???????
if apply only hydrogel in a scar: scar.
we need bout in 80/20 ratio.
I think the duoderm just keeps the hydrogel in place allowing the rapid cell infiltration. I imagine you could use other dressings to keep the hydrogel fixed in place for the scar free healiong.
then the hydrogel does is prevent cell proliferation? or what it really does is accelerate the proliferation?
if making hydrogel is to inhibit cell proliferation, then what you said to stop fibrosis using decorin is correct.
but what makes hydrogel is to accelerate the proliferation of cells, then the theory of stopping fibrosis for not made scar, is incorrect.
so... what's the answer, inhibit cell proliferation or accelerate it? What makes hydrogel?
"if hydrogel is the cure to scarless healing , we'll probably have to wait 5-10yrs to be treated and it'll probably cost a shitload.."
^^^
I don't think it'll take that long. It's a 'device' so it should get through the FDA pretty quickly! I've read about an instance today actually of a medical device getting approved in just 17 days. If it proves to be safe an effective, I don't see why this couldn't be the case! Any one know if it would qualify for the '510(k)'? process..?
Also, the researchers said it would be inexpensive and easy to produce on a large scale!