Acne.org Products
That's a big one. If that really works, I feel it can mean a pretty big step forward. Tension has always been one of the big obstacles.
The researchers predicted the dressing will be used not only to reduce scarring from incisions, but also to make the surgical revision of existing scars a more appealing option; the second scar would be much less visible, if visible at all.
That's kind of interesting. How relieving tension alone can have a positive effect on scar appearance. Maybe this combined with what OTR3 is working on (a scar reduction product which is based on a synthetic ECM which is genuinely promising) or Histogen (non-human tissue regeneration patches with embryonic cell-like properties) can really be something worth considering!
The articles use the term 'scarless' which is to ambiguous. The term scarless is as ambiguous as the phrase how long is a piece of string.
BTW a part of a linear scar I have has been helped by compression of the wound. But anyway how are you going to get a revised pock mark to close up perfectly and keep it compressed like you can a linear wound?
And I'll repeat this fact: scarring is created by the myofibroblast.
Decorin completely arrests the myofibroblast.
Well scarless healing is bound to happen just hope it would be sometime soon and easily accessible. And if someone really does have the winning formula or something close the first thing after fda approves is the hit the plastic surgery area, they'd get a hell lot more money to fund the research then what govt or investors can offer.
I just want to see something effective on the market even if it's not full scar free healing, say like a solid 70-85% healing without scars.
People have been researching scar less healing since time began bud. If you look there is even a citation that shows scarless healing has been researched since before 1906.
The term scarless healing is also an absolute weaselling term bud. It has get out written all over it.
Scar'less' healing can mean anything.
And I can promise you scar'less' healing right now?
I could get you to put two cuts on you. BTW these cuts would be bigger than 2mm, to ensure myofibroblast proliferation (the cause of the scar). Also we at acne.org could make our own interpreted scar scale, which we could call the acne scale. In one of these two cuts we would constantly apply horse shit, on the other we would makes sure it was clean and moist.
We would then assess the wound using our special acne scale, with our confirmation bias, we would expect to see one wound scarred alessa; the moist one would be the one scarred alessa guessing on expectations. We'd see scarred less.
However the term ascar freea, is a completely different term, has no get out.
IMO someone should lock this thread. Or change its name to scar free healing.
I think you're getting too worked up over the definitions, i think most people here want an effective treatment that allows us to heal to the point where it doesn't look like we have scars or something close to it.
whether or not scar tissue exist or not is of little importance. like i've said before if theres a product out there that can help us heal nicely after laser, excision or what not then it's good enough for me.
though it is a bit frustrating when theres all these promises out there and nothing ground breaking has come to the market. maybe in 10 years time something like acell but actually works will be on the market
Well scarless healing is bound to happen just hope it would be sometime soon and easily accessible. And if someone really does have the winning formula or something close the first thing after fda approves is the hit the plastic surgery area, they'd get a hell lot more money to fund the research then what govt or investors can offer.
I just want to see something effective on the market even if it's not full scar free healing, say like a solid 70-85% healing without scars.
People have been researching scar less healing since time began bud. If you look there is even a citation that shows scarless healing has been researched since before 1906.
The term scarless healing is also an absolute weaselling term bud. It has get out written all over it.
Scar'less' healing can mean anything.
And I can promise you scar'less' healing right now?
I could get you to put two cuts on you. BTW these cuts would be bigger than 2mm, to ensure myofibroblast proliferation (the cause of the scar). Also we at acne.org could make our own interpreted scar scale, which we could call the acne scale. In one of these two cuts we would constantly apply horse shit, on the other we would makes sure it was clean and moist.
We would then assess the wound using our special acne scale, with our confirmation bias, we would expect to see one wound scarred alessa; the moist one would be the one scarred alessa guessing on expectations. We'd see scarred less.
However the term ascar freea, is a completely different term, has no get out.
IMO someone should lock this thread. Or change its name to scar free healing.
I think you're getting too worked up over the definitions, i think most people here want an effective treatment that allows us to heal to the point where it doesn't look like we have scars or something close to it.
whether or not scar tissue exist or not is of little importance. like i've said before if theres a product out there that can help us heal nicely after laser, excision or what not then it's good enough for me.
though it is a bit frustrating when theres all these promises out there and nothing ground breaking has come to the market. maybe in 10 years time something like acell but actually works will be on the market
Scarless is different to scar free.
E.g There is a difference with a full bottle of water, than a waterless bottle of water. One is ambiguous. i'e 'water less' can mean any water less measurement . Whereas you get the full bottle of water with the full bottle of water which is not ambiguous.
You would laugh in the face of a salesman who offered you a waterless bottle of water.
All i'm saying is poeple want the "appearance" of scar free face, whether there's a little scar tissue there is not too important. obviously scar free would be great.
We want a more immediate solution that actually works. realistically if someone got socked in the face they would have scar tissue underneath the skin, does it bother them? probably not.
The title of this thread isn't all that misleading. I wasn't expecting it within the next 10years they would find a scar free solution, i'm satisfied with any solution that could get me to feel good about my appearance.
I'm not ppicky about the title if you feel that it's better to have Scar free that's cool, I'm easy.
You seem very knowledgable about this topic when do you think we will be able to see something worthwhile on the market?
ghjghjgj
This isn't new news. I read something about using botox in the wound and around suture area to prevent tension while the wound healed. Of course it resulted in a less visible scar. I's something people could have done right now. No 3 clinic phase trials to wait for.
All i'm saying is poeple want the "appearance" of scar free face, whether there's a little scar tissue there is not too important. obviously scar free would be great.We want a more immediate solution that actually works. realistically if someone got socked in the face they would have scar tissue underneath the skin, does it bother them? probably not.
The title of this thread isn't all that misleading. I wasn't expecting it within the next 10years they would find a scar free solution, i'm satisfied with any solution that could get me to feel good about my appearance.
I'm not ppicky about the title if you feel that it's better to have Scar free that's cool, I'm easy.
You seem very knowledgable about this topic when do you think we will be able to see something worthwhile on the market?
All I can say to your question is decorin has been known to arrest myofibroblast proliferation (myofibroblast is the cause of the scar) completely. This was done years ago.
BTW they are using decorin in spinal cord injury to stop the over production of collagen (scar).
http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/WhoWeAre/Res...rdInjuries.aspx
BTW they are using decorin in spinal cord injury to stop the over production of collagen (scar).
http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/WhoWeAre/Res...rdInjuries.aspx
*Scans article* *copies line* *pastes line*
"Meanwhile, a company called Integra Life Sciences is developing a commercial grade of the anti-scarring drug Decorin, which is critical to allow cells to grow across the site of spinal cord injuries."
Interesting!
http://www.integralife.com/products.aspx#Oti
I haven't found anything regarding decorin on that site (yet) but this was pretty interesting:
INTEGRAA Dermal Regeneration Template
INTEGRAA Dermal Regeneration Template is a two-layer skin regeneration system. The outer layer is made of a thin silicone film that acts as your skin's epidermis. It protects the wound from infection and controls both heat and moisture loss. The inner layer is constructed of a complex matrix of cross-linked fibers. This porous material acts as a scaffold for regenerating dermal skin cells, which enables the re-growth of a functional dermal layer of skin. Once dermal skin has regenerated, the silicone outer layer is removed and replaced with a thin epidermal skin graft. This completes the procedure and leaves you with flexible, growing skin.
I haven't found anything regarding decorin on that site (yet) but this was pretty interesting:
INTEGRA‚® Dermal Regeneration Template
INTEGRA‚® Dermal Regeneration Template is a two-layer skin regeneration system. The outer layer is made of a thin silicone film that acts as your skin's epidermis. It protects the wound from infection and controls both heat and moisture loss. The inner layer is constructed of a complex matrix of cross-linked fibers. This porous material acts as a scaffold for regenerating dermal skin cells, which enables the re-growth of a functional dermal layer of skin. Once dermal skin has regenerated, the silicone outer layer is removed and replaced with a thin epidermal skin graft. This completes the procedure and leaves you with flexible, growing skin.
If they made it non-crossed linked it would have been cooler, imo. That is, if it really does what it says on the tin. 
Regarding another Integra life sciences product:
Regarding another Integra life sciences product:
Hey Everyone!
I'm new here and love all the research you all have done to illuminate the research being done for an unmet need in medical science.
AFIRM (Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine) currently has several ongoing projects that relate to scar free wound healing. seabs has routinely brought up decorin as being able to inhibit scar formation.
Errki Ruoslahti of UC Santa Barbara and Sanford-Burnham recently published a paper where they tested CAR-decorin on mice and it suppressed scar formation. Currently, Ruoslahti is working with AFIRM to bring this treatment to the clinic and they already have commercial partners lined up.
Check out page 174 or the details about this. I was wondering though...might not be a bad idea to contact Ruoslahti and see if there is any way we could help with funding. I know I would be good to give some and if enough of us out there with scars that we don't like (be they from acne or trauma like mine) we may in some small way make this treatment a reality for at least some of us down the road.
Anyway, thanks again for all the insight you guys have given me and I hope this is an interesting read at the very least for you guys!
Regarding another Integra life sciences product:
Hey Everyone!
I'm new here and love all the research you all have done to illuminate the research being done for an unmet need in medical science.
AFIRM (Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine) currently has several ongoing projects that relate to scar free wound healing. seabs has routinely brought up decorin as being able to inhibit scar formation.
Errki Ruoslahti of UC Santa Barbara and Sanford-Burnham recently published a paper where they tested CAR-decorin on mice and it suppressed scar formation. Currently, Ruoslahti is working with AFIRM to bring this treatment to the clinic and they already have commercial partners lined up.
Check out page 174 or the details about this. I was wondering though...might not be a bad idea to contact Ruoslahti and see if there is any way we could help with funding. I know I would be good to give some and if enough of us out there with scars that we don't like (be they from acne or trauma like mine) we may in some small way make this treatment a reality for at least some of us down the road.
Anyway, thanks again for all the insight you guys have given me and I hope this is an interesting read at the very least for you guys!
Hmm, link didn't work for AFIRM's report. Just search for AFIRM 2010 report and it will come up.
Later!
Hey Everyone!
I'm new here and love all the research you all have done to illuminate the research being done for an unmet need in medical science.
AFIRM (Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine) currently has several ongoing projects that relate to scar free wound healing. seabs has routinely brought up decorin as being able to inhibit scar formation.
Errki Ruoslahti of UC Santa Barbara and Sanford-Burnham recently published a paper where they tested CAR-decorin on mice and it suppressed scar formation. Currently, Ruoslahti is working with AFIRM to bring this treatment to the clinic and they already have commercial partners lined up.
Check out page 174 or the details about this. I was wondering though...might not be a bad idea to contact Ruoslahti and see if there is any way we could help with funding. I know I would be good to give some and if enough of us out there with scars that we don't like (be they from acne or trauma like mine) we may in some small way make this treatment a reality for at least some of us down the road.
Anyway, thanks again for all the insight you guys have given me and I hope this is an interesting read at the very least for you guys!
Hi golfpanther. Welcome to the acne massage message boards.
Here's the link you mentioned:
http://www.afirm.mil/assets/documents/annual_report.pdf
I haven't read it yet but Ruoslahti attempting to bring the CAR decorin peptide to the clinic is very exciting news. I read about that a while ago and I remember him saying that it was hard to make it in large quantities which was one of the reasons for it never having made it to the clinics. So I thought "Well, that's probably the end of that then." so this news is kind of surprising to me. It's a pleasant surprise. 
Let's hope it goes fast. The fact that they have commercial partners already lined up is really, really cool and kind of promising too.
But yeah, the money.... I once thought about raising money and donating it to a Dutch pharmaceutical development company. After looking into it, I think I read on their site that it takes twelve years on average and no less than one billion Euros for a drug to go from development to the clinic. But I suppose you could say that every little bit helps. However I'd be a little surprised if they didn't already have the means to get all the money they need. I once read that a company called Histogen received EXTRAORDINARY amounts of money fairly easily. I'm talking hundreds of millions of dollars. It's amazing.
Anyway, thanks for the cool info!
Hey Everyone!
I'm new here and love all the research you all have done to illuminate the research being done for an unmet need in medical science.
AFIRM (Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine) currently has several ongoing projects that relate to scar free wound healing. seabs has routinely brought up decorin as being able to inhibit scar formation.
Errki Ruoslahti of UC Santa Barbara and Sanford-Burnham recently published a paper where they tested CAR-decorin on mice and it suppressed scar formation. Currently, Ruoslahti is working with AFIRM to bring this treatment to the clinic and they already have commercial partners lined up.
Check out page 174 or the details about this. I was wondering though...might not be a bad idea to contact Ruoslahti and see if there is any way we could help with funding. I know I would be good to give some and if enough of us out there with scars that we don't like (be they from acne or trauma like mine) we may in some small way make this treatment a reality for at least some of us down the road.
Anyway, thanks again for all the insight you guys have given me and I hope this is an interesting read at the very least for you guys!
Hi golfpanther. Welcome to the acne
massagemessage boards.
Here's the link you mentioned:
http://www.afirm.mil/assets/documents/annual_report.pdf
I haven't read it yet but Ruoslahti attempting to bring the CAR decorin peptide ot the clinic is very exciting news. I read about that a while ago and I remember him saying that it was hard to make it in large quantities which was one of the reasons for it never having made it to the clinics. So I thought "Well, that's probably the end of that then." so this news is kind of surprising to me. It's a pleasant surprise.
But yeah, the money.... I once thought about raising money and donating it to a Dutch pharmaceutical development company. After looking into it, I think I read on their site that it takes twelve years on average and no less than one billion Euros for a drug to go from development to the clinic. But I suppose you could say that every little bit helps. However I'd be a little surprised if they didn't already have the means to get all the money they need. I once read that a company called Histogen reveived EXTRAORDINARY amounts of money fairly easily. I'm talking hundreds of millions of dollars. It's amazing.
Anyway, thanks for the cool info!
I'd still rather use the decorin that is your natural anti-fibrotic, the decorin that is the stuff that completely controls scarring, the stuff that stops your non wounded tissues from scarring.
CAR decorin is different to decorin.
I'd still rather use the decorin that is your natural anti-fibrotic, the decorin that is the stuff that completely controls scarring, the stuff that stops your non wounded tissues from scarring.
CAR decorin is different to decorin.
I think decorin's alleged effectiveness is actually enhanced. It's basically better than just decorin alone, they claim.
"Fortuitously, as it turned out, the CAR peptide component not only carries decorin to the site of injury, but also enhances its ability to block TGF-I activity. With this CAR-decorin damper, TGF-I cannot generate the fibrotic tissue that makes up a scar."
http://beaker.sanfordburnham.org/?p=2764
Here's the link you mentioned:
I should add that if one chooses to browse through the pages of that pdf one can come across a few photos which one could find disturbing.
Just so you know.
I'd still rather use the decorin that is your natural anti-fibrotic, the decorin that is the stuff that completely controls scarring, the stuff that stops your non wounded tissues from scarring.
CAR decorin is different to decorin.
I think decorin's alleged effectiveness is actually enhanced. It's basically better than just decorin alone, they claim.
"Fortuitously, as it turned out, the CAR peptide component not only carries decorin to the site of injury, but also enhances its ability to block TGF-I activity. With this CAR-decorin damper, TGF-I cannot generate the fibrotic tissue that makes up a scar."
http://beaker.sanfordburnham.org/?p=2764
It can not better the decorin your body uses to stop your tissues from becoming fibrotic. Decorin is the stuff that tells your body you are not injured therefor do not scar. Decorin stops fibrosis 100%.
It is only possible it could match it.
I'd still rather use the decorin that is your natural anti-fibrotic, the decorin that is the stuff that completely controls scarring, the stuff that stops your non wounded tissues from scarring.
CAR decorin is different to decorin.
I think decorin's alleged effectiveness is actually enhanced. It's basically better than just decorin alone, they claim.
"Fortuitously, as it turned out, the CAR peptide component not only carries decorin to the site of injury, but also enhances its ability to block TGF-Ž² activity. With this CAR-decorin damper, TGF-Ž² cannot generate the fibrotic tissue that makes up a scar."
http://beaker.sanfordburnham.org/?p=2764
It can not better the decorin your body uses to stop your tissues from becoming fibrotic. Decorin is the stuff that tells your body you are not injured therefor do not scar. Decorin stops fibrosis 100%.
It is only possible it could match it.
Dude, they're saying the decorin used is the decorin. Yes, the decorin which stops your tissues from becoming fibrotic. That decorin which we all know and love. 
They said in that AFIRM report that recently they've found that the decorin doesn't have to be joined to the peptides. So it's just decorin which is injected I think into the blood stream and then the peptides make it so that it goes to the site of injury. If I understood correctly, that is.
Although I do wonder from what source they are (going to be) obtaining the decorin. Maybe they're using decorin obtained from animals (which I wouldn't be so thrilled about as a vegetarian like I mentioned before) or they are using (and this would be my personal preference) synthetic decorin. Either way..............it's decorin. Which does what decorin does. So there's no reason for concern there if you ask me.
It's exciting. Maybe by the time I'm forty I'll be scarless. haha
Btw, by enhancing it they're referring to the fact that they are making sure it goes to the right place. So if you use decorin without the peptides it doesn't always work as well, they've found in their research. But now, they are enhancing the effectiveness (or efficacy? I dunno) of it by making sure it goes to the right place. So they're not manufacturing super decorin, they're just making sure that it can do what it is said to do so well by combining it with the peptides.
Btw, by enhancing it they're referring to the fact that they are making sure it goes to the right place. So if you use decorin without the peptides it doesn't always work as well, they've found in their research. But now, they are enhancing the effectiveness (or efficacy? I dunno) of it by making sure it goes to the right place. So they're not manufacturing super decorin, they're just making sure that it can do what it is said to do so well by combining it with the peptides.
You cant enhance on mammal decorin. Decorin is already in your non wounded tissues and it is the stuff that stops your tissues from scarring. It is your bodies antifibrotic, this antifibrotic would have evolved symbiotically with our regenerating mammal tissues.
BTW if you look at the spinal cord cite, you can see that the measurement of the decorin they use on internal tissue stops collagen over expression (scarring) in the spine by 95%. And this massively speeds up the regeneration.
The decorin and the measurement of decorin your body produces and uses, stops scarring 100% in your regenerating non wounded tissues.
As you can see there is a difference.
They are different. Is the 95% scar free result a measurement dosage difference in the amount of decorin they get, is it that the man made decorin is weaker, is it the internal structures through the skin? or is it all? etc.
Regarding the peptides, the reason it doesn't work as well without the peptides is because upon injury your body does not attract decorin to the cite of an injury, as your bodywants to inflame the site and produce excess collagen to the site. (upon injury decorin is absent in and around the injury site)
The peptides are there as a kind of carriier to carry the decorin to the site of injury. It has nothing to do with enhancing the decorin.
(e.g. are you more of an enhanced human if you get the car to the cinema, over say walking to the cinema?)
The decorin and the measurement of decorin your body produces and uses, stops scarring 100% in your regenerating non wounded tissues.
As you can see there is a difference.
Well, I think the Ruoslahti team must be aware of this... I'm going to give them that much credit. You could go ask them about it, you know? Here's his contact info:
http://www.lifesci.ucsb.edu/mcdb/labs/ruos.../group_members/
I'm sure they'll answer whatever questions one might have.
Anyway, be that as it may it's exciting news nevertheless wouldn't you say? Come on man, this is the decorin thing coming into fruition (hopefully, eventually)! 
It definitely is a step in the right direction that someone (Ruoslahti) is thinking about commercializing a product based on decorin.
I agree with Seabs that it doesn't increase the efficacy of decorin in literal sense but it does improve the efficacy of treatment with it (which is the important thing:). At least according to their preliminary findings on mice.
I plan on contacting Ruoslahti to get a feel for where's he at with funding and such (the AFIRM report is a recap of advancements made last year). I would love to be able to help any way I can in getting the trials and research moving forward. I don't have the worst scars (from trauma not acne so I hope that doesn't mean I can't be here but getting rid of them would make a world of difference for my self-esteem.
Anyway, I'll shoot him an e-mail and get back to you guys with what he says. Anyone have something specific they'd like me to ask?
Well one thing I was wondering about is if the decorin that is used eventually is going to be made from animal products... lol It may sound silly but I'm a vegetarian and decorin made from e.g. bovine cartilage used to treat my scars is somewhat of a weird idea for me. I mean if we were able to choose synthetic decorin that would be what I'd go for... I mean the decorin itself is not an invention of them, it's just the peptide combination, right? So does that mean that when one were to ever get treated by this, people can make up their own minds as to what kind of decorin is used to treat them? Seeing as they figured out that the peptides don't need to be linked to the decorin, I assume they are going to make their product just the peptides and the decorin can come from any source?
That's what I was wondering about so if you could shed some light on that then that would be great.