Acne.org Products
Okay mr Roche advocate- you've been a member of acne.org since 2004 but you don't have acne? You are touting that you are self medicating with accutane and suggesting others do the same? You come on a thread for accutane side effects sufferers taking the piss out of the petition I am spreading word about -oh and then in a separate thread your disputing factual evidence in relation to the impact it has on the bodies ability to heal.
How dumb do you think people are?
It's well known Roche pay people to track and discount others stories over the Internet and I put it to you that you are an affiliate of Roche trolling this website trying to garner good publicity for this toxic poison.
Get off our forum you have no reason to be here. Also- As I told you before I will take on you or any other roche damage control bots like LoiLoi from medicenet.
I'm coming for you Roche pharmaceuticals.
I'm a paid advocate of Roche? What a weird accusation. Just because I have a different opinion than you do (an opinion I base on solid scientific evidence) doesn't make me an idiot. I only posted in this thread after you posted in my thread and unprovoked, called me both an idiot and a fool. How am I garnering good publicity for Roche exactly? Besides, Accutane isn't even a big drug for Roche anymore since they pulled it from the US market. I don't have acne, but I take the drug because it can lead to slightly smaller pore size from what I've read. The photos I posted hardly show an improvement in my skin from taking the drug. In fact, I said that I think it's made my skin slightly worse if anything (my skin is too dry now as is my hair).
Anyone prepared to sink a drug developed for chemo for the sake of smaller pore size is a fool and an idiot.
Anyone prepared to self medicate with a toxic substance purchased on the Internet is a moron.
Anyone who says they 'don't believe' in the ipledge program developed to safe guard pregnancy on said toxic substance is an ignorant
twat.
Lastly - anyone who blatantly mocks, denies and downplays serious side effects of those who are
suffering them without never having experienced them should just sit back and maybe learn a thing or two- especially if they are on the drug as they claim.
Anything else Mr Roche advocate?
On 2/17/2013 at 9:51 AM, LeereWorte said:QuoteOkay mr Roche advocate- you've been a member of acne.org since 2004 but you don't have acne? You are touting that you are self medicating with accutane and suggesting others do the same? You come on a thread for accutane side effects sufferers taking the piss out of the petition I am spreading word about -oh and then in a separate thread your disputing factual evidence in relation to the impact it has on the bodies ability to heal.
How dumb do you think people are?
It's well known Roche pay people to track and discount others stories over the Internet and I put it to you that you are an affiliate of Roche trolling this website trying to garner good publicity for this toxic poison.
Get off our forum you have no reason to be here. Also- As I told you before I will take on you or any other roche damage control bots like LoiLoi from medicenet.
I'm coming for you Roche pharmaceuticals.
I'm a paid advocate of Roche? What a weird accusation. Just because I have a different opinion than you do (an opinion I base on solid scientific evidence) doesn't make me an idiot. I only posted in this thread after you posted in my thread and unprovoked, called me both an idiot and a fool. How am I garnering good publicity for Roche exactly? Besides, Accutane isn't even a big drug for Roche anymore since they pulled it from the US market. I don't have acne, but I take the drug because it can lead to slightly smaller pore size from what I've read. The photos I posted, [Edited link out] hardly show an improvement in my skin from taking the drug. In fact, I said that I think it's made my skin slightly worse if anything (my skin is too dry now as is my hair).
EDIT: broken link
Livetoregret: Thank you for reading my post but you haven't read it carefully, that's ok. I claim quite the opposite. I am very much positive I would never write such a stupendous thing like: "once acne returns your other issues should improve". No need to apologize though if you think someone is wrong, it makes it seem like a verbal battle!
IndigoRush: you're the one who started the thread, right? Nice to have the author around! The song you linked sounds really nice, i thought i might as well listen to it if somebody puts so much effort into it and then even feels generous enough to share it with everyone else.
i dont know if this would help anybody but my doctor did mention to me that doctors and and developers of accutane do not actually know the future implications and long term effects of accutane. They dont know if it can affect future fertility and whole host of other things because research was never performed for those kind of things. Regardless of research, you never know what will pop up about this medication.
Why are you people still talking about random ideas instead of going to see a Rheumatologist to get autoimmune tests/meds prescribed?
That girl that keeps talking about her dry skin and wanting help- I have posted that mine completely healed almost overnight after being prescribed a strong antibiotic. Not sure if it's because it killed bacteria or because of the anti-inflammatory properties, but that's the only thing that I know works. When I stopped taking it, it came back, but long-term treatment may turn into a cure.
I truly believe a lot of the problems are gut issues/auto-immune issues. This forum has been going on for eons and we are still in the same place. I'm glad if you can find support here, and there are people who can recommend what works for them, but please see a Rheumatologist if you're sick of your skin feeling like you're 80. I see mine again on the 28th and will post an update.
Livetoregret: Thank you for reading my post but you haven't read it carefully, that's ok. I claim quite the opposite. I am very much positive I would never write such a stupendous thing like: "once acne returns your other issues should improve". No need to apologize though if you think someone is wrong, it makes it seem like a verbal battle!
IndigoRush: you're the one who started the thread, right? Nice to have the author around! The song you linked sounds really nice, i thought i might as well listen to it if somebody puts so much effort into it and then even feels generous enough to share it with everyone else.
That's me...
Nice to have a new member 
I've been eating my daily Yoghurt since you mentioned it 
By the way, what's given me a reason to live BIG TIME is The Walking Dead. Best TV series ever.
Plus, it makes you grateful to sleep without the risk of being eaten by hungry zombies!
Why are you people still talking about random ideas instead of going to see a Rheumatologist to get autoimmune tests/meds prescribed?
That girl that keeps talking about her dry skin and wanting help- I have posted that mine completely healed almost overnight after being prescribed a strong antibiotic. Not sure if it's because it killed bacteria or because of the anti-inflammatory properties, but that's the only thing that I know works. When I stopped taking it, it came back, but long-term treatment may turn into a cure.
I truly believe a lot of the problems are gut issues/auto-immune issues. This forum has been going on for eons and we are still in the same place. I'm glad if you can find support here, and there are people who can recommend what works for them, but please see a Rheumatologist if you're sick of your skin feeling like you're 80. I see mine again on the 28th and will post an update.
Agree with you on the gut issues and an auto-immune problem (or problems) would explain why things continue to get worse, or at least don't get better.
Digestion is clearly a common problem for those of us posting here.
Can anything help that?
Fibre doesn't.
Tried expensive probiotics.
Figuring out allergens is too complicated (unless you opt to avoid all gluten/dairy/anything commonly associated with an intolerance).
Having natural yoghurt every day is my latest attempt to fix this problem, but time will tell if that's another failure to add to the tally.
I'm also fasting... a bit.. If I'm not hungry in the morning, I'll skip breakfast.
Debatable though, if skipping breakfast is a good thing.
Idigorush, with all the respect that you diserve i have some points to discuss with you
1) you was the one that decided to give a try to the medication ( accutane) no one, the doctor or other person put a gun in yor head saying take it, so it was your option
2) i think yo have hypocodria or a little of it
3) you are not a doctor, so you didnt really know whats good or bad
4) this drug may be its not for you, may be yo have some intolerance to isotretinoin and that was not fault of the drug was an error from you and your doctor who give to you, the two persons that didnt recognise that sonething was bad in the time you started with it.
I apriciate all the time you spend in acne.org and all the contributions that you made, but bro go on continue with your life spend out more dont be stigmatizated all the time with the efects of the drug life is to short to cry with the small stuff, what is your north making books ( seled in amazon) making documentals (die for clear skin), you cant get 70 years old and continue with this, this drug helped so much people and gives their life back, so make a change, this is not a help for you , thinking all the time in the side effects that a drug gives you five years ago, all the days its not life!!
Good luck! I want to help you with my arguments i dont want to attack you or something like that, becouse i pass by the same thing and you need to pass the problem, grow and continue with a normal life becouse the worry its not normal.
Peace.
@oilskinchile- Ya, nobody held a gun to you and made you eat lead paint chips, but you ate em anyways. Wasn't the paint's fault you ended up like this, you must have had a bad reaction, bro.
Are you trolling this thread, or do you not understand that the side effects never go away for most of the people posting here?
These side effects are for life if we can't find a way to treat or reverse them.
No need for you to nit-pick Indigo either. You might as well bash all of us while you're at it.
Thanks for all your helpful comments buddy.
Hi guys, I am not suffering from hair loss or anything severe like you guys. I am only suffering from exfoliative cheilitis, constipation, dry skin, peeling skin. I only took about a month of accutane at 50mg. I cannot imagine the hardship you guys go through, but I will try to help out anyway I can. I don't know if this will help anyone but I found this post from an old forum, but it is about reversing hair loss due to Accutane. Here it is: http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/discus/messages/7/1400.html?1207655929
I will make this as short as possible for all the ADD people out there like myself. First of all, thanks to everyone on the net talking about this because I got all this from you guys. I also got my info. from medical internet sites and books that give biological reasons why these work to aid in hair growth and slow hair loss.
When I started Accutane I was losing maybe 20 hairs all day. In the middle of my 4th month I started losing 150-200! I stopped and and it got worse for a couple weeks. After reading EVERYTHING I could about hair throughout the 4 months I got to something that has helped me tremendously.
I have been using these things for about 2 weeks now and I went from 150-200 hairs a day lost to NO BS, 20 hairs or less a day like normal. It slowly started to decrease after the 2nd day. I did lose enough hair so its noticeable for me but not to eveyone else.
I think I lost about 15-20% of my hair in a short period of time but I am happy with how much hair I have now.
It took 2 weeks for my hair loss to get back to normal and there is no gaurantee that it will last but I thought it was such a huge change so quick I had to share it with you guys since I felt how horrible it is to loose your hair.
Shampoo: Nioxin Cleanser Nioxin Scalf Therapy
Rogaine: This didnt stop my hair loss but should aid in getting it back.
Supplements: Vitamin Shoppe Brand Especially for Men Hair Formula-Read Label This has Folic Acid, Biotin, Pantothenic-Acid, Iodine, Zinc and Shen Men which is a chinese herb proven to give healthy hair results.
Vitamin B-Complex 125-sustained release-1 Tablet a day
Biotin-5 mg a day
Flaxseed Oil- 3,000 mg a day 3 times a day
Ester-C 1000 once a day
Zinc-50mg/day
Slow Release Iron(FE)- read for usage intructions
This has slowed my hair loss to normal now and my hair isn't dry and nasty feeling anymore. It actually feels the softest it ever has.
I will check back on this board from time to time to try to answer questions and relay messages back to whether or not this has actually stopped permanently. It has now been 3 weeks and I still see normal hair loss. This should keep up...
Good luck to everyone....
I also found this interesting lab report on Vitamin A and toxicity. Supposedly Vitamin A can be reversed with Vitamin E and zinc? Idk, maybe someone can read and clarify things for me. Sorry if this doesn't help out or is a repost. Here is the report: [Edited link out]
I'm really tired with this.....now i understand why many accutane sufferers stoped posting and gave up...not because they got better, but because they got tired to look for a solution which doesnt exist...
Took antibiotics for a week, the scalp inflamation disappeared as long as i took them, but it didnt influence the hair loss at all....
I made a new order, spending lots of money on :
L-arginine 1000mg
Calcium-magnezium-zinc pills
Hair Blend (solaray brand) - for hair loss
Thyroid pills for hipothyroidism....althought i'm not sure i have this disease..i'll just take them anyway...
If u guys have any answers, please share with me.....i'm so down, got again in a deep depression, being sad the whole day and crying alot during night, having sleeping difficulties, feeling like i wanna die.......damn it guys! Is there any way out of this???
I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED! Don't forget to pray! bye for now///
I'm really tired with this.....now i understand why many accutane sufferers stoped posting and gave up...not because they got better, but because they got tired to look for a solution which doesnt exist...
Took antibiotics for a week, the scalp inflamation disappeared as long as i took them, but it didnt influence the hair loss at all....
I made a new order, spending lots of money on :
L-arginine 1000mg
Calcium-magnezium-zinc pills
Hair Blend (solaray brand) - for hair loss
Thyroid pills for hipothyroidism....althought i'm not sure i have this disease..i'll just take them anyway...
If u guys have any answers, please share with me.....i'm so down, got again in a deep depression, being sad the whole day and crying alot during night, having sleeping difficulties, feeling like i wanna die.......damn it guys! Is there any way out of this???
I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED! Don't forget to pray! bye for now///
Dude - I know it sucks hard but try and be grateful at least your skin is not in as bad of condition as mine...I now think back to when I was only dealing with hairloss and I almost long for those days 
Ok New labs in and things are looking even more confusing and depressing-
So went again demanded my GP do fresh labs - last done in August...Included with a letter of my results was a letter saying she no longer wants to treat me....
Anyway...
High Bilirubin (20*) range is 15 or less
still have a low TSH of 0.33 ( normal range is 0.5-4.5) - but normal T3 & T4
Heres a new one - early iron overload has been detected?? Very high Iron (46* normal range is 10-30)but its the trans ferretin saturation of 76* ( normal range 12-45)
Rheumatoid Factor is a whopping 41* ( normal is less than 14) and my CCP antibodies were negative.
..And so my GP throws me on my ass because she's tired of me demanding an answer to what the fuck is happening to me.
Im so angry and so over this shit
Livetoregret - my skin is not in so bad condition like yours? U gotta be kidding me. My skin on face looks like shit, having a bad eczema on it which makes it looks so dirty and bad.....and that eczema appear even in the evebrows, which is almost impossible to clean, because my eyebrows are falling alot if i only touch them. And, in few days, the eczema appears again. So, its not like u think....
Anybody has any good news regarding the accutane side effects? any way to improve them?? guess not...
Livetoregret - my skin is not in so bad condition like yours? U gotta be kidding me. My skin on face looks like shit, having a bad eczema on it which makes it looks so dirty and bad.....and that eczema appear even in the evebrows, which is almost impossible to clean, because my eyebrows are falling alot if i only touch them. And, in few days, the eczema appears again. So, its not like u think....
Anybody has any good news regarding the accutane side effects? any way to improve them?? guess not...
Hey Robert,
This forum can be a treasure trove of information, I have read through the entire forum and I suggest for you to do the same if you haven't already. There are some gems in the over 100+ pages. Also you can use the search function for a specific symptom since chances are people have already posted about your same issue.
Now a couple things that have helped for me, I suggest a review of your diet. "You are what you eat" applies here. Cut out pure sugars and the regular use of stimulants like caffeine. Stay hydrated, drink plenty of water. Stay away from "junk" foods. Moderate exercise has helped with my overall well-being. Try eating small meals every 3 hours to minimize blood sugar spikes and drops. My meals usually include a variety things, complex carbs (like whole wheat bread, veggies, fiber), some healthy fats, and proteins are a staple of my diet.
Good luck,
Janski
PS: I just noticed your post for blood labwork levels and I'm in the process of getting my results back for the same tests. I'll let you know how mine compare.
On 2/18/2013 at 7:40 PM, IndigoRush said:That's me...
Nice to have a new member [Edited image out]
I've been eating my daily Yoghurt since you mentioned it [Edited image out]
By the way, what's given me a reason to live BIG TIME is The Walking Dead. Best TV series ever.
Plus, it makes you grateful to sleep without the risk of being eaten by hungry zombies!
Eating yoghurt is good in any case It's definitely not going to make things worse..
Hm, how do you know for sure there are no zombies?
I think i might turn into one if i keep reading acne.org forum. It's a double edged sword. Some posts really get me depressed.
Seems like people are not actually listening to each other but mostly talk about themselves, only ask.
Livetoregret: I'd recommend you getting your thyroid checked. With that kind of THS you could have hyperthyroidism. Any thyroid problems are so difficult to discover though.. If your hair is still falling out it is worth getting your thyroid checked.
What is up guysss? I haven't been keeping up here, would like to read more posts when I am not at work...
I am doing pretty good taking my daily PEPPERMINT as it cured my stomach gurgling and bloated discomfort but my stools are still sometimes unformed and I also sometimes have undigested materials there, likely due to bile flow as we know... has anybody reversed the undigestion problem with UDCA/TUDCA or something?
I am really enjoying being outside once again thanks to OCULOTROPHIN from standard process! As I have mentioned in previous posts, I went from seeing literally hundreds of eye floaters to now around maybe a dozen, sometimes less a day... they tell you to take 3 per day but my chiro has given me and my family other SP products over the years and he directs us to take more than the bottle says, so I take between 3 and 6 a day... also, my skin hasn't peeled since I finished dermatrophin pmg.
Still taking DANDELION and BOSWELIA tinctures for sexual sides and liver health... and that seems to work very well when I take them but I am honestly not as consistent as I would like to be in taking them. BOSWELIA was researched and they say it helps with ED.
Speaking of sexual health, I wonder if anybody has tried the SP product called ORCHIC linked below? I am considering buying some SP ORCHIC but I need to wait a bit as I just purchased IPLEX from standard process to hopefully replace my oculotrophin... It has porcine eye in it just like the oculotrophin but it also has bone and stomach pmg, which I hope will help my rebuild my decreased bone mass and my aforementioned persistent stomach issues.
https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Orchic-PMG
Also, any suggestions on an excellent B-Vitamin? my nails are still thin... prolly just going to end up ordering them from SP but wanted to check and see if anybody has found anything else that they have found particularly outstanding. I should just be consistent with my dandelion as it is a good natural source of B-Vitamins.
Any questions, HMU! I'm not a SP salesman, I've just seen their products work for me literally right before my eyes when nothing else at all was helping... I would love it if others got on the SP bandwagon so we could compare results. Many of their products are available on amazon.com so you can often read the customer reviews which have shown to be very positive from what I have seen.
On a personal note, I have been reading my poems at open mics a few times a week... Pretty fun!
Cheers, Maynerd.
On 2/21/2013 at 5:49 AM, sdro123 said:Hi friends,
I hope you are all doing well. Has anyone else experimented with mary jane at all? I'm afraid to continue smoking due to my recent dentist informing that I have gum recession on my canines......Any input would be great. It's the only thing that gets rid of my pain and helps me breathe evenly...not to mention i instantaneously feel compelled to do yoga when i smoke...my body seems to get reset as if it is ready to take in more oxygen (although the smoke aspect is bad because it decrease oxygen, which my body desperately needs, go figure!) I notice the MJ compeltely suppresses my immune system from attcking itself, evne after i'm not even "high" so the speak. The day after I'm a little foggy, but my breathing is great, no morning stiffness, and my joints feel okay. All my tension seems to melt away for about a day or so. I don't think it's healing, but it's def good for pain management. Has anyone else tried smoking or ingesting the cannabis oil? Don't rat me out to the cops! hehe [Edited image out]
I smoke - its done nothing for me but impair my circulation more.
99% your gum recession is caused by dry mouth from accutane but made worse by cotton mouth
@oilskinchile- Ya, nobody held a gun to you and made you eat lead paint chips, but you ate em anyways. Wasn't the paint's fault you ended up like this, you must have had a bad reaction, bro.
Are you trolling this thread, or do you not understand that the side effects never go away for most of the people posting here?
These side effects are for life if we can't find a way to treat or reverse them.
No need for you to nit-pick Indigo either. You might as well bash all of us while you're at it.
Thanks for all your helpful comments buddy.
@oilskinchile , no nobody put a gun to our heads , but the docs also lied to us , to me anyways he said all ALL side effects will go away in less than 6 months
so I trusted him , biggest mistake of my life , now we are all on this forum trying to recover from the LONG TERM damage of this poison , so go to a different
forum , we are hear to help each other , and to find out what works and what doesn't , some things actually do and that's great.
Accutane also gave me some permanent side effects that have stuck for more than a year later, which include dry eyes and occasional sciatic nerve pain. Accutane worked for me though so to me those side effects are worth having for clear skin.
I went vegan when I went on Accutane, it was the best decision I made in my life. I never felt healthier, brighter, clearer (mentally) in my life. I did it properly though and it was a transition, and am very happy with doing this.
Eating organic is important. Not sure if you eat meat but if you choose to you need to make sure it's hormone/antibiotic free, as well as your dairy too. It makes no sense to go all natural and not take antibiotics if these are biproducts that are found in the foods you eat, you know what I mean?
In terms of your depression, and anyone else reading this for that matter, get off the anti-depressants and go get yourself some "5-htp". It is amazing, all natural and has triptofan, which is the same amino acid found in turkey...it's the reason why you feel tired after eating it because turkey has high levels of it. It is an amazing alternative to anti-depressants not because it's all natural but because it works and because unlike the anti-deps it doesn't wreak havoc on your system.
What was your dosage on Acc? I was on it for much longer than you and am surprised that you experienced such harsh side effects after taking it for such a short time. I think the reason might be because at 15 you were still developing, whereas I took it in my young adult years and was already developed (or at least very close to finished).
One last tip, don't go overboard and take 30 different pills everyday (I'm exaggerating), but you know what I mean. This is important because if you find something is going wrong then you will have a tough time trying to know which pill is giving you issues, also there can be interactions, even among natural pills. If you can find the things from pills in foods then it's bette to go that route.
GL!
Ok New labs in and things are looking even more confusing and depressing-
So went again demanded my GP do fresh labs - last done in August...Included with a letter of my results was a letter saying she no longer wants to treat me....
Anyway...
High Bilirubin (20*) range is 15 or less
still have a low TSH of 0.33 ( normal range is 0.5-4.5) - but normal T3 & T4
Heres a new one - early iron overload has been detected?? Very high Iron (46* normal range is 10-30)but its the trans ferretin saturation of 76* ( normal range 12-45)
Rheumatoid Factor is a whopping 41* ( normal is less than 14) and my CCP antibodies were negative.
..And so my GP throws me on my ass because she's tired of me demanding an answer to what the fuck is happening to me.
Im so angry and so over this shit[/quote
Wow! It is very evident you have autoimmune process going on! Can't you get too a rheum! They didn't even test antibodies for thyroid and hate too say it but high RA factor is positive for rheumatoid! Fact
The fact neither Vit D or ANA was not done shows how moronic my GP is. You cant find a good doctor here. Its impossible/
Your high Iron levels and high billirubin can be caused by Rhuematoid or Autoimmune Thyroid! FYI for you Hasmoitos (auto hypo form) many go through a hyper stage before they go low thyroid! Kinda like a thyroid storm...Really CCP only shows that you would have a more severe form of RA disease and treatment doesn't work well in thoose with ccp antibodies, There are many who have RA, but don't have CCP antbodies...CCP antibodies means nothing...Fact is RA factor means Rhuematoid!
Similar lab results in the past for bilirubin and high iron and low thyroid. Low neutrophils too.
None of the results were that way off though. Which is typical with accutane side effects.
Over the years I've corrected one or the other of the lab markers. Doing so hasn't changed anything.
Regarding MJ: Yes, it's a reset for me too. Not a cure, but a good treatment.
I still recommend creatine with juice. It's helpful, it brings water into the cells.
so my doc has had me on accutane for over a year at 30 mg day, but I have been cutting the dose and for 5 months now i have been on 30 mg three times a week. well, i stopped taking it this week cause i developed clicking in my joints, and the occasional come and go mild pain. and by the stories i have read, this is just the beginning and it could get worse.......so i stopped, but my doctor still thinks iam doing his 30 mg a day thing. iam supposed to end my fake course in this month or two.
so now what do i do. are my joints gonna end up fucked up or what? can i prevent it? also, that mild pain that comes and goes is mostly on my right knee....
so my doc has had me on accutane for over a year at 30 mg day, but I have been cutting the dose and for 5 months now i have been on 30 mg three times a week. well, i stopped taking it this week cause i developed clicking in my joints, and the occasional come and go mild pain. and by the stories i have read, this is just the beginning and it could get worse.......so i stopped, but my doctor still thinks iam doing his 30 mg a day thing. iam supposed to end my fake course in this month or two.
so now what do i do. are my joints gonna end up fucked up or what? can i prevent it? also, that mild pain that comes and goes is mostly on my right knee....
Stop now - you may recover, but you also may get worse..pore through the over 100 pages here for tips on supplements etc but in a nutshell if the damage is done, the damage is done.
so my doc has had me on accutane for over a year at 30 mg day, but I have been cutting the dose and for 5 months now i have been on 30 mg three times a week. well, i stopped taking it this week cause i developed clicking in my joints, and the occasional come and go mild pain. and by the stories i have read, this is just the beginning and it could get worse.......so i stopped, but my doctor still thinks iam doing his 30 mg a day thing. iam supposed to end my fake course in this month or two.
so now what do i do. are my joints gonna end up fucked up or what? can i prevent it? also, that mild pain that comes and goes is mostly on my right knee....
I had that when i was on my course and it completely went away after i came off accutane. For most people that goes away after you come off of the drug but for some people it doesn't.
If you have cystic acne you might want to try niacinamide. I've been taking it for 4 years and haven't gotten a cyst the whole time. Also i suspect it may have helped me recover with some of my sides because it is an anti inflammatory.