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11 hours ago, Calcified said:Don't think it's gonna help me. Best to get gp to test, mine not high.
Taking Mifepristone sounds hell risky.
Thommys post about HPA hyperactivity sounds legit to me.
I like the theory, just not convinced yet that Mifepristone is the way to go. Theres got to be more than 1 option to fix the HPA
Detox theory -happy to do some of that along the way, Im not focusing on that though exclusivelyas a way out, not wasting another 10 years trying to detox with no significant result - just cant do it
hope to get some answers from upcoming endocrinologist appointment
13 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Thommys post about HPA hyperactivity sounds legit to me.
I like the theory, just not convinced yet that Mifepristone is the way to go. Theres got to be more than 1 option to fix the HPA
Detox theory -happy to do some of that along the way, Im not focusing on that though exclusivelyas a way out, not wasting another 10 years trying to detox with no significant result - just cant do it
hope to get some answers from upcoming endocrinologist appointment
Have you had testosterone tested? mine was low end of normal (old person levels I guess).
I seem to be able to increase itwithout anabolics but it takes a boatload of supplements.
Today I read a thread with someone who got liquor taken and they measured his Allopregnanolone. It was OK. But they saw in the liquor that the gabaa receptors where the allo is working were downregulated. So he had allopregnanolone tolerance. He took some natural supplement against it called Bacopa Monnieri and recovered.
If my value is normal I'm willing to that liquor punction as well. I really feel like shit these days, also because I tried a MAOI recently for recovery which didn't work.
Still waiting for my doctor to contact me, just you know that this allo value won't be a dead end for me.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19041444/
Wasn't sure if you were thinking of using bacopa or not, but based on my experience with it and this study I'd avoid it.
3 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:Today I read a thread with someone who got liquor taken and they measured his Allopregnanolone. It was OK. But they saw in the liquor that the gabaa receptors where the allo is working were downregulated. So he had allopregnanolone tolerance. He took some natural supplement against it called Bacopa Monnieri and recovered.
If my value is normal I'm willing to that liquor punction as well. I really feel like shit these days, also because I tried a MAOI recently for recovery which didn't work.
Still waiting for my doctor to contact me, just you know that this allo value won't be a dead end for me.
Try some scrambled eggs and broccoli sprouts pills. Bs capsules are on Amazon fairly cheap.
Guitarman is absolutely right about the importance of the microbiome in all of this. I believe the key is finding the right prebiotic to meet our goals. The fish eggs I can tell provided a testosterone boost based on the immediate libido effects. Chicken eggs have had that effect on me before too and they're a lot cheaper. Free range chicken eggs are best. Cage free eggs are good. Avoid vegetarian chicken eggs.
Libido increased but prostate exploded. Did a scan and the machine said prostatitis. It detected m hominis was way out of control. I had some cranberry capsules on hand and thought I'd try it. Took three and woke up feeling a definite difference in my gut. Less bloating, still there but it's gone down. Cranberry is known for UTI but it's also excellent for the gut microbiome. Sticking with the cranberry capsules daily and will report back later.
On 1/24/2022 at 10:45 PM, Dragon76 said:Try some scrambled eggs and broccoli sprouts pills. Bs capsules are on Amazon fairly cheap
Me personally I won't do detoxing these days anymore, thank you.
Saffron Aide made a gut microbiome test and everything was in range.
Can you please explain a little bit more about your experience with Bacopa?
So i got blood work done and my testosterone was fine(823) and SHBG was normal (28). Free testosterone was also fine (20,7).
But my E2 is ratherlow (<25) and i'm on fin, so it was probably even lower before as more T will be aromatized into E2 as less gets converted into DHT.
Anyway, i did some more research and people who get actual "post finasteride syndrome" (pfs) have one theory that could make some sense.
They believe that taking fin makes their androgen receptors more sensitive to compensate for the lowered DHT. And when you quit the drug, the rapid increase of DHT concentrations (over 333% increase at the cellular level) overwhels the overexpressed and hypersensitive androgen receptors. This could lead to an autoregulatory response that silences the AR signal, they believe.
Accutane on the other hand is known to decrease the level of (skin) androgen receptor levels = makes them less sensitive.
I'm almost 10 months on fin without any noticeable side effects, and no sexual problems at all. If it's true that accutane decreases AR sensitivity and fin increases it, that could explain the fact that sometimes my sex drive is even better than before. Or maybe DHT is simply not needed for sexual function and testosterone is enough. E2 is also proved to be very important for male sexual function and fin slightly increases both T and E2 by ~15%. Only thing i'm a bit worried about is if i ever decide to quit the drug.
My post accutane libido has never really been much, but bacopa wiped it out completely. Size down below also shrank. Studies show bacopa has antifertility effects so these experiences seem to match the studies.
If someone is looking for a brain herb that helps with clarity, libido, sleep, and stress, based on my personal experience I would rank WHOLE ginkgo biloba toward the top. Not ginkgo extract, but whole ginkgo. Whole Ginkgo powder can be encapsulated at home. Black garlic is another top brain herb. Amazon has an excellent black garlic product made in Germany.
I would rank fish eggs and broccoli sprout pills ahead of both of these herbs though. Cranberry also. Cranberry is having a positive effect on my gut microbiome I can tell. Broccoli sprouts helps the liver more than any other plant based food. The main diff between chicken eggs vs fish eggs is omega 6 vs omega 3. Chicken is loaded with omega 6, fish is loaded with omega 3.
Brain health depends largely on gut and liver health. Fish and chicken eggs are high in choline and are huge for liver health. Cranberry seems to be having a better effect on my gut than anything else I've used. Time will tell if the positive effect continues to happen.
Coconut oil I've found just isn't any good for me. The lauric acid content is likely the issue with it.
12 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:So i got blood work done and my testosterone was fine(823) and SHBG was normal (28). Free testosterone was also fine (20,7).
But my E2 is ratherlow (<25) and i'm on fin, so it was probably even lower before as more T will be aromatized into E2 as less gets converted into DHT.
Anyway, i did some more research and people who get actual "post finasteride syndrome" (pfs) have one theory that could make some sense.
They believe that taking fin makes their androgen receptors more sensitive to compensate for the lowered DHT. And when you quit the drug, the rapid increase of DHT concentrations (over 333% increase at the cellular level) overwhels the overexpressed and hypersensitive androgen receptors. This could lead to an autoregulatory response that silences the AR signal, they believe.
Accutane on the other hand is known to decrease the level of (skin) androgen receptor levels = makes them less sensitive.
I'm almost 10 months on fin without any noticeable side effects, and no sexual problems at all. If it's true that accutane decreases AR sensitivity and fin increases it, that could explain the fact that sometimes my sex drive is even better than before. Or maybe DHT is simply not needed for sexual function and testosterone is enough. E2 is also proved to be very important for male sexual function and fin slightly increases both T and E2 by ~15%. Only thing i'm a bit worried about is if i ever decide to quit the drug.
The theory makes sense. What treatment option do you conclude from it? Is there a possibility for you to wean of the drug extremely slowly so you don't experience the crash. Thats what I would do since there are also people who get the side effects while being on the drug.
8 hours ago, Dragon76 said:My post accutane libido has never really been much, but bacopa wiped it out completely. Size down below also shrank. Studies show bacopa has antifertility effects so these experiences seem to match the studies.
If someone is looking for a brain herb that helps with clarity, libido, sleep, and stress, based on my personal experience I would rank WHOLE ginkgo biloba toward the top. Not ginkgo extract, but whole ginkgo. Whole Ginkgo powder can be encapsulated at home. Black garlic is another top brain herb. Amazon has an excellent black garlic product made in Germany.
I would rank fish eggs and broccoli sprout pills ahead of both of these herbs though. Cranberry also. Cranberry is having a positive effect on my gut microbiome I can tell. Broccoli sprouts helps the liver more than any other plant based food. The main diff between chicken eggs vs fish eggs is omega 6 vs omega 3. Chicken is loaded with omega 6, fish is loaded with omega 3.
Brain health depends largely on gut and liver health. Fish and chicken eggs are high in choline and are huge for liver health. Cranberry seems to be having a better effect on my gut than anything else I've used. Time will tell if the positive effect continues to happen.
Coconut oil I've found just isn't any good for me. The lauric acid content is likely the issue with it.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's not likely that I will take it.
Thanks for the advice on the gingko, I will look further into it.
Since I'm feeling so bad I decided to try another drug which is shown in a study to induce 5 Alpha reductase gene expression. It's called sulpirid and is an antidepressant in low dosage. Its an Dopamine antagonist but in low dosage removes the Dopamine in the presynaptic area and that's why the Dopamine can flow more freely, at least that's what my father who is a biochemist and pharmacologist explained to me.
It will take a lot of more time to wait for the allo value and perhaps do the liquor punction and I need to do sth now. Nevertheless I will keep going with the allo thing.
I will report back to you how I feel with the sulpirid. I haven't seen anyone taken it yet and in propeciahelp forum it is discussed that it induces 5ar.
As a Caucasian American, what I've noticed is that globally, Caucasians seem to gravitate more toward pharmaceutical poisons, while non Caucasians seem to gravitate more toward a safer and more natural apporach to their health. I've often wondered why this is. Is it because so many mainstream doctors are white? I wish someone could explain this phenomenon to me.
Take the covid vaccine for example. Over 20k american deaths from it. Over 1 million Americans injured by it. Non whites are the least trusting of the vaccine. Whites are the most trusting of the vaccine. Why is it that so many white people are so trusting in a form of medicine that has killed and injured so many people for so long?
The effects are clearly there. Demographic shifts everywhere you look. In the end, the world will be populated by those who make the best choices for their health. Those who make poor choices always have and always will die out. That's how nature works.
1 hour ago, Dragon76 said:As a Caucasian American, what I've noticed is that globally, Caucasians seem to gravitate more toward pharmaceutical poisons, while non Caucasians seem to gravitate more toward a safer and more natural apporach to their health. I've often wondered why this is. Is it because so many mainstream doctors are white? I wish someone could explain this phenomenon to me.
Take the covid vaccine for example. Over 20k american deaths from it. Over 1 million Americans injured by it. Non whites are the least trusting of the vaccine. Whites are the most trusting of the vaccine. Why is it that so many white people are so trusting in a form of medicine that has killed and injured so many people for so long?
The effects are clearly there. Demographic shifts everywhere you look. In the end, the world will be populated by those who make the best choices for their health. Those who make poor choices always have and always will die out. That's how nature works.
Dude, could you please stay on topic. The worst decision has already been made.
It's been a while since I was on here, I've been feeling pretty good overall with a combination of digestive enzymes, probiotics, eating healthy, running, etc. and supplements (mainly just a multivitamin). Important to note my side effects never included ED, but hair loss, brain fog, dry skin, etc. I had all of those. Also I think the lack of energy leads to kind of a depression.
That said, I hopped back on here because I'm still losing my hairdespite taking saw palmetto and using products that target DHT. Didn't seem to me like DHT was the issue, but I was noticing an overall dryness to my hair -- just lackluster and breaking and shedding a lot. On top of that, I noticed I would eat food and lose energy immediately, same with alcohol. I felt my best after aerobic activity, my face looked less drained of life as well as my hair being better. So I drew the conclusion it could be related to blood flow (aerobic activity really helps with that), and I tried black currant. Dragon is throwing out a ton of supplements right now and its hard to keep up, but that one stuck with me and I did a little research and it helps with blood flow. Also you can get a NOW supplements extra strength for pretty cheap, so I figured it was worth a shot. It's supposed to help with a lot of things.
A few days in and I am feeling some immediate good effects. Energy levels are up, I can run further without getting exhausted, and I don't experience that food coma crash after eating. I'm hoping this will translate over to better hair growth and considering the supplement is safe and cheap I'll keep it going. For those of you willing to add something to your regimens (I know we all have a lot going on right now and don't want to throw too much in at once to risk losing the ability to measure effectiveness), it might be worth a shot.
I'm also curious about beef liver as it seems to help with blood as well... But I received test results not too long ago and wasn't anemic. So not sure if that would be helpful.
Saw endocrinologist, he had this to say, Ill keep it brief.
To taking Mifepristone - he said no I wouldnt take that.
To taking Finasteride - he said Yes, that could and quite often is a good choice
I have a full hormonalblood test to do in 8 weeks time. He wants me to lose some weight, trial a sleep machine - he said that alone can improve testosterone by up to 20% ( I do sleep poorly )
To the question of does Isotretinoin effect hormones, we all know it can, you only have to google that to know it does. I just wanted to hear it from him - he said yes it can so at least he acknowledged that. He also said those drugs can hang around for some time which was interesting for him to acknowledge. To my question though of detoxing he brushed aside really saying its not as effective as some make it out to be!
I guess his way of fixing things is to simply test everything and then treat with drugs and lifestyle changes - diet and exercise
Illreport back in April once Ive lost some weight, tested a sleep machine and have the results from a full hormone test.
Finasteride or something in that group may be where we go next.
Thanks for the update.
Interesting about finestride. Got to wonder if dht is to high now.
Obviously things are different now and probably forever, does he too think its somewhat still in us, like we need to get it out, like some here believe?
I have spoken too alot of doctors here in Australia, most realise it's a last resort medication, due to side effects. I guess that's why most try to avoid high doses.
Real quickly, the test I mentioned is different, it is not a stool sample.
So when we talk about microbiome tests, like a viome or genova it is only measuring whats in the feces.
The mucosal microbiome may be different.
This is why I brought up this test, it is different, it may offer more insight.
GC-MS in Biomedicine
GC-MS is a combination of gas chromatography, a separation technique, and mass spectrometry, which is used to identify analytes. This detection technique has extensive applications in biomedicine, including disease diagnosis, pharmaceutical quality control, and metabolic profiling.
Using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) to study microbiota
Using-GC-MS.pdf (chromatest.si)
Dendritic Cells (DCs) and Probiotics
An important immune-regulating activity performed in the intestinal DC is the metabolism of vitamin A to retinoic acid. Recent research has shown that some probiotics in the small intestine can induce this metabolism in human and mouse DCs [76,77].
I have kind of bad news. There is no lab in Germany which determines the Allopregnanolone value according to my doc. They only do routine values like progesterone. I just looked up online where I can get the value and there is the ZRT lab which do allo with urine. I will contact them and see if it's possible. My doctor wants to contact an endocrinologist who knows about neurosteroids.
Also I tried two things:
Glycine which promotes the 5alpha reductase wasn't helpful, I had a hangover the next day.
Sulpirid gave me insomnia and it didn't help me. I won't take it anymore because I started taking promethazine which cannot be taken together. Promethazine gives me some relief, but I cannot say if it's the issue related to the antipsychotic I take or related to the PAS. I just can relax better.
The following days I will read the scientific paper written by administrators of propecia help forum. I won't give up on the allo value, if in Germany it's not done in serum perhaps it's done in the Liquor, also this ZRT doesn't look to bad.
On 1/16/2022 at 12:09 PM, Calcified said:Did they do serum retinol/vitamin A at the same time?did u test low normal as well? I have not seen anyonepost high normal as yet.
I remember reading on that anti A forum that under_tow talks about, there was a girl who was a previous accutane patient, who after cutting out vitamin A had levels go wellbelow range. I think she reported no improvement.
Sorry for the late reply. Yes, serum Vitamin A had also been tested in that session.
It was 440 (normal: 200-1200). I don't have the unit but the value was well within range. However per my knowledge a blood test of Vitamin A is not very helpful as most of the Vitamin A is usually stored in the organs (especially liver).
Hi all,
Just letting you know that I was diagnosed with Hydrogen Dominant SIBO (25 ppm - lactulose breath test).
So the person who mentioned above that people who have (not only intestinal) issues post Accutane should take a SIBO test is absolutely right.
Unfortunately, the Rifaximin round (1600 mg / day) has not brought any improvement.
20 hours ago, luk55 said:Sorry for the late reply. Yes, serum Vitamin A had also been tested in that session.
It was 440 (normal: 200-1200). I don't have the unit but the value was well within range. However per my knowledge a blood test of Vitamin A is not very helpful as most of the Vitamin A is usually stored in the organs (especially liver).
@guitarman01note another low normal.
Got to wonder if high normal would feel more normal.
So this is from about a month ago, I think there is a chance this could go beyond gut health.
Commensal-derived retinoic acid protects mice against infection by priming the innate defenses of intestinal epithelial cells.
Retinoic acid for gut health (science.org)
The higher amounts of RA observed in SFB-colonized mice compared to those in germ-free mice depended on the bacterial conversion of dietary vitamin A to RA rather than on host production of RA. Other commensal bacteria that produce the enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of vitamin A to RA also generated RA in the gut and protected mice fromC.rodentiuminfection. The demonstration that gut commensals produce RA that primes innate antimicrobial defenses suggests that retinol or other forms of vitamin A could act as prebiotics to protect against intestinal infections.
Adding to the last post,
Vitamin A Helps Our Immune Systems Thanks in Part to Gut Bacteria That Make Their Own Supply
October 22, 2021
The medical community has known for years that vitamin A is a necessary element of a healthy diet. But until now, scientists did not know that mammals need help from the bacteria living in their gut to assure that the vitamin can do its job.
To the best of our knowledge, the ability of commensal bacteria to provide a direct source of retinoic acid in the intestine that physiologically regulates the mammalian host has not been described, says microbiota expertTheresa Alenghat, VMD, PhD, Division of Immunobiology and corresponding author on the study.
The USDA recommended daily amount of vitamin A is 900 micrograms (mcg) for adult men and 700 mcg for adult women.The new study does not suggest any changes are needed in these recommendations, rather that retinoic acid-producing bacteria could eventually be evaluated as a probiotic strategy in patients.