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If the lymphatic system is clogged/stuck, accutane isn't going anywhere. It stays put, for years, decades, or life, unless the lymphatic system gets up and running again. Once you get the lymphatic system up and running, accutane loses it's footing inside the body, and starts to flush out.
The condition of the lymphatic system is what makes the difference between ppl who take accutane and recover quickly and those who suffer for years afterward.
Yes, Vitamin D antagonizes Retinoic Acid according to this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11585356/
Vitamin D also upregulates the gene expression of SRD 5A1, which would result in more 5 alphareductase!( https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/99/10/3766/2836468 ).
Too much Vitamin D over a long period could be toxic though so I am talking to my doctor about that too and keep you updated.
2 hours ago, Calcified said:There was a guy called under_tow that was eliminating vitamin A from diet.
Hey @Calcifiedstill doing it, over 3yrs VA free, all symptoms continue to improve.
I have also tried VA free diet for 3-4 month. For me the symptoms got worse.
My theory is that in my case I currently don't have enough Vit A because 13-cis RA or probably more ATRA (as 13-cis RA is isomerised to ATRA and per my knowledge it is not likely that we/I still have the 13-cis RA/accutane in my body after that long time)is still stuck in my body and prevents the uptake of more Vit. A. That's also why for me at least I still experience 100% the same side effects as if I am still under therapy with accutane.
So I think, at least in my case, I have a hypovitaminosis of Vit. A due to the body not being able to get rid of high load remains from the accutane Course in the form of(probably) ATRA or any "metabolites". The ATRA prevents the uptake of Vit. A and causes the hypovitaminosis which is also the reason for the side effects you have during active therapy with accutane but should dissapear when stopping treatment as long as the body is able to handle the depletion of 13-cis RA and especially its metabolites like ATRA.
I agree with luk55 about hypotivaminosis A. Sometimes my biofeedback machine recomends beef liver, and sometimes it does not. If I take beef liver when the machine recomends it, my brain feels better and I sleep better. If I try beef liver when my machine doesnt recomend it, I get a splitting headache and feel horrible.
I've always known cis and trans to be polar opposites. Most, if not all natural foods have an even mix of cis and trans isomers. I believe that when you have a synthetic isolate that is 100% cis, ie accutane, it becomes polarized, or radioactive. We all know that radioactive materials have extremely long half lives. Brown seaweed is excellent for pulling radioactive material from the body. Black currant is excellent for activating nrf2, which activates intracellular detox mechanisms.
Regardless of whether you believe Accutane is still in the body or not, Im more of the opinion its altered something- something is either upregulated or downregulated or some bacteria has beenaltered as guitarman has mentioned
Whatever you believe, for me the hardest thing to get rid of is inflammation. Someone said it years ago, youd have a chance of getting on top of side effects if you could get on top of the inflammation- for me thats mostly in the brain, it just never goes away.
Tumeric helps a little bit but its not a cure. Pariet helps with reflux but I dont want to be on it.
I agree with all of you. I can only tell you that detoxing the classical way is not working. I did a 30 day water fast back in 2015 and it didn't alleviate the symptoms. It actually made matters worse because I had a psychotic break due to the fasting and have to take an antipsychotic since.
I haven't looked into finding a cure for a long time but now more information is online and is also more organized. I'm more cautious now and will always consult with my doctor before taking further action.
I can imagine that my gene expression has been altered, because while on the drug my hair structure seemed to change, it's now much thicker.
Besides that I never read anywhere that you can get dry ears from the drug, but the mucous membrane in my ears seems to be dry which is an uncomfortable feeling. Has anyone ever tried hyaluronan for mucose membrane related issues?
Hey Tommy, that doctor is an idiot to keep you on an antipsychotic all that time. It could be doing you more harm than good. Ketogenic diet is the best thing for anxiety and depression.
Strange that your hair is now thicker. My hair has always been thinner post accutane. I've tried hyaluronic acid and it didn't do anything for me. I believe vitamin A is important for mucous membranes and epithelium.
One important tidbit of info. My machine has been detecting radiation in particular areas of my body...the gut and the pelvic/prostate area, especially after taking the biofeedback recomended supplements. I believe the black currant draws it out of the cell nucleus and into circulation via nrf2, and the machine detects it as it makes it's pass along the gut. This would confirm my theory that accutane is polarized, or radioactive. Multiple websites have mentioned radioactivity after accutane ingestion.
Heres a theory, just replace covid with accutane and its long term sides.
The lost microbes of COVID-19: Bifidobacteria depletion and decreased microbiome diversity are a predictability marker of severe COVID 19, a cross sectional study
We hypothesize that low bacterial diversity and depletion ofBifidobacteriumgenera either before or after infection led to reduced pro-immune function, thereby allowing SARS-CoV-2 infection to become symptomatic. This particular dysbiosis pattern may be a susceptibility marker for symptomatic severity from SARS-CoV-2 infection and may be amenable to pre-, intra-, or post infection intervention.
This is what I see, it doesnt necessarilyhave to be bifido, but it does seem to be a dominantmicrobe from birth to death.
The lost microbes of PAS (Post Accutane Syndrome, as some would call it): Bifidobacteria depletion and decreased microbiome diversity are a predictability marker of severe PAS, a cross sectional study
This particular dysbiosis pattern may be a susceptibility marker for symptomatic severity from Accutaneand may be amenable to pre-, intra-, or post intervention.
^They are also looking at this for what they call long-covid or ongoing symptoms that last well past the actual infection.
At this point I am only looking at bifido and Propionibacterium when it comes to lost or damaged microbes, for very different reasons.
Also, Retinoic acid generation could be a clearance pathway for vit a toxicity.
Its also important to keep in mind Accutane itself has very weak binding affinity to RAR receptors, that would be all-trans retinoic acid that performs most of the important biological functions of vitamin a.
You could also maybe say this, idk.
The lost microbes of PAS: Propionibacterium depletion and decreased microbiome diversity are a predictability marker of severe PAS, a cross sectional study
I think guitar is right about gut dysbiosis. My machine has indicated this often. I believe it's caused by radioactive retinoic acid killing good bugs such as bifido.
I just dropped kyolic garlic (magnesium stearate is not our friend) and added broccoli sprout powder, and encapsulate it myself. Still doing black currant and laminaria, and beef liver when the machine calls for it. All three of the plant based supplements have prebiotic properties. Crucifers such as broccoli sprouts are rich in sulforaphane, which helps with intracellular and liver detox. Slept better after adding broccoli sprouts. Will update later.
On 12/28/2021 at 5:14 AM, aforsberg said:Took Accutane in 2009. 80MGs per day for 7 1/2 months. Was a very happy kid before this chemotherapy. Still feel awful. Low energy. Low everything. Perfect diet for 10 years now. Eyes lips and insides feel like leather. Brain feels empty since. I came here just to post this. You are not alone. The truth is I have been waiting to die since this poison changed my entire life.
Mifepristone can fix you. PM me, we have the best source on Mifepristone, i just ordered it myself. Mifepristone fixed a PAS friend of mine. Ronnie from PH forum.
Guys PM me, i have a WP chat group. I know the ways to fix this disease. I talked and posted many messages already, read the earlier pages.
On 1/1/2022 at 5:08 AM, Thommy280495 said:So I keep this short:
The facts are, Isotretinoin is an 5 alpha reductase 1 inhibitor. This inhibition changed the gene expression in the brain, which means the neural cells are changed permanently and we now have less 5 alpha reductase 1 in the brain. The 5 alpha reductase 1 is needed for conversion from progesterone to 5 alpha di hydroxy progesterone, which is converted to allopregnanole (Allo). If you have less allo you have lower libido and anxiety.
You cannot take allo and 5 dihydroxyprogesterone is not available. So what you can do is take Progesterone.
So SaffronAide, an Androgen Receptor antagonist actually downregulates the androgens. So we would have an UPregulation. Also 5 alpha reductase 1 (5AR1) is not the same as an androgen receptor (AR) as you know. Where did you get the information that our androgen receptors are upregulated? I think there is a misunderstanding. It is only about the 5AR1 which are permanently inhibited.
Also finasteride downregulates 5 alpha reductase 2, the only point would be that this could upregulate 5 alpha reductase 1.
I personally am interested in trying out a drug, but it has to make sense in theory.
I don't want to piss you off, you made a lot of good effort for sharing the information, I just want to have things clear before I take a medication.
Please tag my name or quote me next time, i was just closing the site before seeing this. 
I think you have read my messages wrong, i said our AR's DOWNregulated on the contrary of PFS.
That's why we have to UPregulate with anti- androgens. Like Mifepristone, Bicalutamide etc. Maybe Progesterone too.
Try daily Progesterone injections (50- 75mg) or orally if it doesn't work after like a month or so, try Mifepristone (Ronnie's protocol)
Try HCG first if androgens are low. Maybe Clomid for restart if HPTA is also below normal.
2 hours ago, SaffronAide said:Mifepristone can fix you. PM me, we have the best source on Mifepristone, i just ordered it myself. Mifepristone fixed a PAS friend of mine. Ronnie from PH forum.
Guys PM me, i have a WP chat group. I know the ways to fix this disease. I talked and posted many messages already, read the earlier pages.
Please tag my name or quote me next time, i was just closing the site before seeing this.
I think you have read my messages wrong, i said our AR's DOWNregulated on the contrary of PFS.
That's why we have to UPregulate with anti- androgens. Like Mifepristone, Bicalutamide etc. Maybe Progesterone too.
Try daily Progesterone injections (50- 75mg) or orally if it doesn't work after like a month or so, try Mifepristone (Ronnie's protocol)
Try HCG first if androgens are low. Maybe Clomid for restart if HPTA is also below normal.
I understand now that our androgen receptors are downregulated. But the same thing happened to the Post Finasteride syndrome sufferers. Finasteride also downregulates the androgen receptors. In their case it inhibits the 5 alpha reductase 2 which leads to a downregulation of the androgen receptors.
We don't want to take an androgen antagonist like finasterid or bicalutamid. They further downregulate the androgen receptors, if you dont believe me, look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiandrogen
https://lx.uts.edu.au/pharmacology/article/agonists-and-antagonists/
Taking progesterone would make sense since it is the precursor in the metabolism of allopregnanole. If we have more of the precursor the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase 1, which we have, is not so severe.
There are people with PFS who have the same mental side effects that we have and have fully recovered by taking progesterone.
Im waiting for my blood test results and will most likely take progesterone.
Also what I thought about was that an androgen Agonist which upregulates the receptors would be an option.
I think saffron has moved on from finasteride and bicalutamide and is now focused on ru486, which exerts both estrogenic and antiesteogenic activity. I doubt anything with estrogenic activity can help an accutane victim.
My machine consistently lists wild yam high in the supplements section. Wild yam is a natural progesterone herb. The problem is that black currant, Crucifers, laminaria, and beef liver are all prioritized FAR higher than wild yam by the machine. Vitamin A seems to have pro dht activity.
On 1/7/2022 at 8:51 PM, Thommy280495 said:I agree with all of you. I can only tell you that detoxing the classical way is not working. I did a 30 day water fast back in 2015 and it didn't alleviate the symptoms. It actually made matters worse because I had a psychotic break due to the fasting and have to take an antipsychotic since.
I haven't looked into finding a cure for a long time but now more information is online and is also more organized. I'm more cautious now and will always consult with my doctor before taking further action.
I can imagine that my gene expression has been altered, because while on the drug my hair structure seemed to change, it's now much thicker.
Besides that I never read anywhere that you can get dry ears from the drug, but the mucous membrane in my ears seems to be dry which is an uncomfortable feeling. Has anyone ever tried hyaluronan for mucose membrane related issues?
I have had problems with my ears and sinuses for a very long-time post Accutane.
Idk, I think its this Propionibacterium probiotic that might be helping me.
Propionibacterium are a natural colonizer of the gi tract and sinuses.
This is getting to my skin too it seems. I see increased oil or "sheen" when I look at my face in the mirror at different angles.
If this really was a solution, the logic would be so simple its stupid.
Chronic Rhinosinusitis: Potential Role of Microbial Dysbiosis and Recommendations for Sampling Sites
in a recent meta-analysis of published 16S rRNA gene sequence data, Mackenzie et al. suggested thatPropionibacteriummay be gatekeepers that stabilize the healthy bacterial community, as the removal of these genera from healthy datasets resulted in more fragmented networks that were potentially more susceptible to disturbance
18 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:I understand now that our androgen receptors are downregulated. But the same thing happened to the Post Finasteride syndrome sufferers. Finasteride also downregulates the androgen receptors. In their case it inhibits the 5 alpha reductase 2 which leads to a downregulation of the androgen receptors.
We don't want to take an androgen antagonist like finasterid or bicalutamid. They further downregulate the androgen receptors, if you dont believe me, look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiandrogen
https://lx.uts.edu.au/pharmacology/article/agonists-and-antagonists/
Taking progesterone would make sense since it is the precursor in the metabolism of allopregnanole. If we have more of the precursor the inhibition of 5 alpha reductase 1, which we have, is not so severe.
There are people with PFS who have the same mental side effects that we have and have fully recovered by taking progesterone.
Im waiting for my blood test results and will most likely take progesterone.
Also what I thought about was that an androgen Agonist which upregulates the receptors would be an option.
No Finasteride UPregulates the AR. Didn't you read the latest baylor gene study? 
Who knows what is the real cause though, i now researching the gut connection.
12 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:I have had problems with my ears and sinuses for a very long-time post Accutane.
Idk, I think its this Propionibacterium probiotic that might be helping me.
Propionibacterium are a natural colonizer of the gi tract and sinuses.
This is getting to my skin too it seems. I see increased oil or "sheen" when I look at my face in the mirror at different angles.
If this really was a solution, the logic would be so simple its stupid.
Chronic Rhinosinusitis: Potential Role of Microbial Dysbiosis and Recommendations for Sampling Sites
in a recent meta-analysis of published 16S rRNA gene sequence data, Mackenzie et al. suggested that Propionibacterium may be gatekeepers that stabilize the healthy bacterial community, as the removal of these genera from healthy datasets resulted in more fragmented networks that were potentially more susceptible to disturbance
https://www.reddit.com/r/PSSD/comments/ryj0yo/gut_microbiota_theory_pt_2_pssd_is_an_autoimmune/
Guys read this thread please.
Apart from my AR theory, now this also kinda makes sense. Im going to make a gut microbiome test. The guy thinks leaky gut causes pelvic floor dysfunction, which it can, and maybe that was my issue all alone, the gut. Not ARs on prostate? We'll see.
Please guys take the microbiome and SIBO tests.
@guitarman01 Btw man, did you start any treatments after doing your own microbiome test? Anything helped? You should try antibiotics with probiotics if your Doc. tells you so.
16 hours ago, SaffronAide said:No Finasteride UPregulates the AR. Didn't you read the latest baylor gene study?
Seriously, an androgen antagonist blocks the androgen receptor. It's the mechanism I tagged in my last post. I just read the study which says the binding capacity of the AR is downregulated after Accutane. Theoretically blocking the receptors who have lower binding capacity with sth like bicalutamid doesn't make sense to me.
Thats why I came up with androgen agonist drugs who would upregulate the binding capacity back to normal I suppose.
Regarding Finasteride, it's not an androgen antagonist, it's an 5alpha2 inhibitor.
What is happening genetically is this: 5 alpha reductase 2 is inhibited, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestostrone. Because there is so much less of the androgen dihydrotestosterone available, the body genetically generates more Androgen receptors, so at least this little androgen available can somehow be utilized. Sorry for my English, I will focus on the mechanism of 5 alpha reductase 1, I think its the core issue. I don't know how the amount of androgen receptors relates to the symptoms.
I also found this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24789081/
Epithelial androgen receptor but not stromal androgen receptor expression was significantly lower in patients treated with finasteride than in non-treated patients.
I guess that's why I thought that people with PFS have less ARs.
Please explain to me your thesis that people with PAS have less Androgen receptors. That's speculation but 5 alpha reductase 1 inhibition would also lead to less DHT which would lead to more genetical expression of the AR. Perhaps you write it to me as PM.
I also read this thread with someone who first took Accutane and later Finasteride which then made matters worse for him. ( https://pssdforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3936 )
20 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:Seriously, an androgen antagonist blocks the androgen receptor. It's the mechanism I tagged in my last post. I just read the study which says the binding capacity of the AR is downregulated after Accutane. Theoretically blocking the receptors who have lower binding capacity with sth like bicalutamid doesn't make sense to me.
Thats why I came up with androgen agonist drugs who would upregulate the binding capacity back to normal I suppose.
Regarding Finasteride, it's not an androgen antagonist, it's an 5alpha2 inhibitor.
What is happening genetically is this:5 alpha reductase 2 is inhibited, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestostrone. Because there is so much less of the androgen dihydrotestosteroneavailable, the body genetically generates more Androgenreceptors, so at least this little androgen available can somehow be utilized. Sorry for my English,I will focus on the mechanism of 5 alpha reductase 1, I think its the core issue. Idon't know how the amount of androgen receptors relates to the symptoms.
I also found this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24789081/
Epithelial androgen receptor but not stromal androgen receptor expression was significantly lower in patients treated with finasteride than in non-treated patients.
I guess that's why I thought that people with PFS have less ARs.
Please explain to me your thesis that people with PAS have less Androgen receptors. That's speculation but 5 alpha reductase 1 inhibition would also lead to less DHT which would lead to more genetical expression of the AR. Perhaps you write it to me as PM.
I also read thisthread with someone who first tookAccutane and laterFinasteride which then made matters worse for him. ( https://pssdforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3936 )
https://selfdecode.com/gene/ar/#all-ways-to-increase-gene
See the Bicalutamide on the list. I already explained all of it on earlier posts, go few pages back and see my explanation there. I explained. When you antagonize ARs, they will try to upregulate themselves to compensate. It is simple really.
Imagine you inject 2000mg of Testosterone, what would ARs do? The opposite, because it was too much, they would downregulate themselves. However, i didn't analysed cells on every tissue in a labratory, im not a scientist. But this is what we know from studies and from bodybuildersand what other scientists i talked with told me.
Guys, this is the best thing you can do to fix PAS:
1- Get a full gut microbiome test.
2- Get a Oral Acid Test done which includes CANDIDA.
3- Do a waterfast for 2 weeks at least. Research this yourself. It fixes gut biome.
3- Order Mifepristone (PM for sources, no im not working in a Mifepristone company, lol.) and follow Ronnie's protocol. 700mg for a week daily.
4- Try Anti- androgens like Bicalutamide, Prog etc.
5- Try HCG, Clomid etc. IF your androgenic profile is low. PM me for the correct protocol advice, i know better than anyone else when it comes to dosing and durations. Get a full bloodtest first before doing this.
This is the best way to fix PAS. I hope we all make it. I will doing my own microbiome tests very soon and ordered Mifepristone. Read that Reddit post about gut microbime that i shared above. Im cutting things short, i wasted my 7 years, not posting long articles with sources anymore,i try to focus on my life while beinghelpful and clear.
Biggest mistake people do, that i did this myself in the past, to not following a route as soon as possible. We already know the gut is involved, i would like to see the online members of this thread posting their gut microbiome tests within 2 weeks OR we would never find a cure, we need to find a pattern within our community.
So seriously guys, be quick and do the tests i shared above. And share your results here please! No more waiting, just pure action, let's do this.
Goodluck to all.
20 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:What is happening genetically is this:5 alpha reductase 2 is inhibited, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestostrone.
Accutane does not alter 5AR2, it alters 5AR1 few folds. 5AR2 is not the cause. See the genetic analysis of Accutane pages, it is tricky to find on google but it is there. I had high DHT, 800pgml if i am correct before, so i doubt the DHT in blood is the cause of PAS. Please take the steps i shared above, fixing gut (Even though i have 0 gut symptoms, nothing abnormal.)and maybe trying anti- androgens is the cure of PAS, this is my final conclusion with 7 years of brainstorming.
Accutane is an anti androgen. More Anti androgens will only make the issues worse. If you had high blood dht, it's because the androgen receptors aren't able to accept it, and so it remains high in blood. Once the androgen receptors, or parking spots, are able to accept dht, the blood dht should fall. I believe there are some studies that say vitamin A deficiency leads to loss of androgen receptor function.
5 hours ago, SaffronAide said:https://selfdecode.com/gene/ar/#all-ways-to-increase-gene
See the Bicalutamide on the list. I already explained all of it on earlier posts, go few pages back and see my explanation there. I explained. When you antagonize ARs, they will try to upregulate themselves to compensate. It is simple really.
Imagine you inject 2000mg of Testosterone, what would ARs do? The opposite, because it was too much, they would downregulate themselves. However, i didn't analysed cells on every tissue in a labratory, im not a scientist. But this is what we know from studies and from bodybuildersand what other scientists i talked with told me.
Guys, this is the best thing you can do to fix PAS:
1- Get a full gut microbiome test.
2- Get a Oral Acid Test done which includes CANDIDA.
3- Do a waterfast for 2 weeks at least. Research this yourself. It fixes gut biome.
3- Order Mifepristone (PM for sources, no im not working in a Mifepristone company, lol.) and follow Ronnie's protocol. 700mg for a week daily.
4- Try Anti- androgens like Bicalutamide, Prog etc.
5- Try HCG, Clomid etc. IF your androgenic profile is low. PM me for the correct protocol advice, i know better than anyone else when it comes to dosing and durations. Get a full bloodtest first before doing this.
This is the best way to fix PAS. I hope we all make it. I will doing my own microbiome tests very soon and ordered Mifepristone. Read that Reddit post about gut microbime that i shared above. Im cutting things short, i wasted my 7 years, not posting long articles with sources anymore,i try to focus on my life while beinghelpful and clear.
Biggest mistake people do, that i did this myself in the past, to not following a route as soon as possible. We already know the gut is involved, i would like to see the online members of this thread posting their gut microbiome tests within 2 weeks OR we would never find a cure, we need to find a pattern within our community.
So seriously guys, be quick and do the tests i shared above. And share your results here please! No more waiting, just pure action, let's do this.
Goodluck to all.
Accutane does not alter 5AR2, it alters 5AR1 few folds. 5AR2 is not the cause. See the genetic analysis of Accutane pages, it is tricky to find on google but it is there. I had high DHT, 800pgml if i am correct before, so i doubt the DHT in blood is the cause of PAS. Please take the steps i shared above, fixing gut (Even though i have 0 gut symptoms, nothing abnormal.)and maybe trying anti- androgens is the cure of PAS, this is my final conclusion with 7 years of brainstorming.
I've read everything you've said. If you would have read everything I said you knew that it is clear to me that Accutane inhibits 5AR1. You would also know that I already did a water fast and that its dangerous.
I don't want to argue about androgen antagonists anymore. I will consider doing the gut microbiome test and will share my blood test results with you.
2 hours ago, Dragon76 said:Accutane is an anti androgen. More Anti androgens will only make the issues worse. If you had high blood dht, it's because the androgen receptors aren't able to accept it, and so it remains high in blood. Once the androgen receptors, or parking spots, are able to accept dht, the blood dht should fall. I believe there are some studies that say vitamin A deficiency leads to loss of androgen receptor function.
I found this study which says vitamin A withdrawal upregulates the androgen receptor expression. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9182860/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15650026/
We're overloaded with 13 cis retinoic acid, which interferes with true vitamin A absorption and utilization, and interferes with androgen receptor function. Remove the excess retinoic acid and things go back to normal.
Sulforaphane rich broccoli sprouts and black currant both activate nrf2 and phase I and ii detox, shuttling accutane out of the cell nucleus and into circulation. Alginate rich brown seaweed absorbs radioactive retinoic acid and pulls it into the toilet. Retinol rich beef liver restores systemic retinol.
Black currant also impairs beta glucuronidase, preventing accutane from being reabsorbed and recycled back into the blood.