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4 hours ago, SaffronAide said:Start HCG 250 iu 3x a week. Then do a bloodtest.
My fresh sex hormones blood tests: I am very low in progesterone, dhea-s, s-shpg. All below normal range. Free testosterone close to low range. More tests soon.
Why you suggest HCG and not progesterone or trt for example?
Thank you
Took Accutane in 2009. 80MGs per day for 7 1/2 months. Was a very happy kid before this chemotherapy.Still feel awful. Low energy. Low everything. Perfect diet for 10 years now.Eyes lips and insides feel like leather. Brain feels empty since.I came here just to post this. You are not alone. The truth is I have been waiting to die since this poison changed my entire life.
4 hours ago, aforsberg said:Took Accutane in 2009. 80MGs per day for 7 1/2 months. Was a very happy kid before this chemotherapy.Still feel awful. Low energy. Low everything. Perfect diet for 10 years now.Eyes lips and insides feel like leather. Brain feels empty since.I came here just to post this. You are not alone. The truth is I have been waiting to die since this poison changed my entire life.
Im sorry and I feel your pain brother. I took 40mg a day for 6 months in 2010 at age 16and just felt dead after the poison was finishedand have been that way ever since. I was perfectly healthy and happy before it and it just ruined my life. Loss of feeling in my body, no energy, aching joints, brain fog(better described as chemotherapy brain cell death)I was an athlete prior to taking it and it took away all of my energy and as we know its chemotherapy and it directly kills brain cells as it was designed to do. I once saw brain scans of accutane patients and it showed all of the cell death. My body went from feeling alive and well as a 16 year old to an old man feelingpractically dead. Its no surprise, chemotherapy kills cells directly and we ingested this poison for months. I was extremely sexual prior to taking this poison. It ruined my sexuality and has been basically non existent ever since. I watched and felt it happen over the course of the poison. So it ruined one of the best parts of life for me of thepossibility of having a normal relationship. I know the damage is done and frankly I think we should all be entitled to millions of dollars for this hell we have been put into. But even with that it will never take away the pain from having our lives ruined. Despite all of this I have chose to be positive and look for solutions over these past 12 hard years post accutane chemotherapy poison. I have vaped a lot of weed over these past years and it has helpedme feel better overall. Its also important to eat healthy foods/spices rich in nutrients and maintain a healthy lifestyle. I have also used psilocybin mushrooms which science shows can stimulate new brain cell growth. These plant medicines have helped me, despite living with the permanent damage of accutane. I tried many times to contact lawyers but nobody will take on my case. I hope all of you that are still struggling will continue on and stay strong. Despite all of the damage done, I can say that I am doing well in life and I feel good these days living a healthy lifestyle. Being Normal pre accutane is now just a vague memory, but life is still good and every day is a blessing. I hope one day all of the evil people in this world such as the ones responsible for lives being ruined by accutane, will be charged and imprisoned.
Rc711 - a very accurate assessment of the situation Id say
Over the 20 plus years Ive tried to get out of this mess, Ive never gone to a doctor who flat out says, brain cell death - nah nothing I can do for you. I think this has more to do with them not truly understanding what this drug does to young people. This is frustrating because you always walk away feeling something can be done about our condition but as time goes on it leaves you wondering when will I get that breakthrough.which doctor knows how to treat this
Next month Im back to see an endocrinologist for first time in 15 years, this time Im confident my bloods will show that I need TRT. If its all cell deaththough this lack of energy etc,Im not sure Ill get the full benefits of testosterone, I have to try though as I cant keep living feeling like Im 90 years old - quality of life in this state is just pathetic
I live in hope, stay positive everyone
On 12/29/2021 at 7:54 AM, TrueJustice said:Rc711 - a very accurate assessment of the situation Id say
Over the 20 plus years Ive tried to get out of this mess, Ive never gone to a doctor who flat out says, brain cell death - nah nothing I can do for you. I think this has more to do with them not truly understanding what this drug does to young people. This is frustrating because you always walk away feeling something can be done about our condition but as time goes on it leaves you wondering when will I get that breakthrough.which doctor knows how to treat this
Next month Im back to see an endocrinologist for first time in 15 years, this time Im confident my bloods will show that I need TRT. If its all cell deaththough this lack of energy etc,Im not sure Ill get the full benefits of testosterone, I have to try though as I cant keep living feeling like Im 90 years old - quality of life in this state is just pathetic
I live in hope, stay positive everyone
I read a study the other day where they gave isotrentoin to aggressive skin cancer patients and it was effective, but patients developed issues,so it was stopped.
I can't remember exactly what was said but theyreferred to stiffness etc, these people were not elderly, but they were sort of turning into the elderly, something like that.
So I guess that might be why we feel older than we are.
So I keep this short:
The facts are, Isotretinoin is an 5 alpha reductase 1 inhibitor. This inhibition changed the gene expression in the brain, which means the neural cells are changed permanently and we now have less 5 alpha reductase 1 in the brain. The 5 alpha reductase 1 is needed for conversion from progesterone to 5 alpha di hydroxy progesterone, which is converted to allopregnanole (Allo). If you have less allo you have lower libido and anxiety.
You cannot take allo and 5 dihydroxyprogesterone is not available. So what you can do is take Progesterone.
So SaffronAide, an Androgen Receptor antagonist actually downregulates the androgens. So we would have an UPregulation. Also 5 alpha reductase 1 (5AR1) is not the same as an androgen receptor (AR) as you know. Where did you get the information that our androgen receptors are upregulated? I think there is a misunderstanding. It is only about the 5AR1 which are permanently inhibited.
Also finasteride downregulates 5 alpha reductase 2, the only point would be that this could upregulate 5 alpha reductase 1.
I personally am interested in trying out a drug, but it has to make sense in theory.
I don't want to piss you off, you made a lot of good effort for sharing the information, I just want to have things clear before I take a medication.
So I did some digging:
Isotretinoin is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. 5 alpha reductase inhibition leads to an antiandronergic effect. That means less testosteron is converted into Dihydrotestoseron. So we actually need an adrenergic agonist. There are lots of medication who are adrenergic agonists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-adrenergic_agonist#Clinical_significance
On the other hand less progesterone is converted into allopregnanolone. Less allopregnanone means more anxiety. There are ways toup regulate the 5 alpha reductase naturally by consuming glycin and niacinamid.
2 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:So I did some digging:
Isotretinoin is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. 5 alpha reductase inhibition leads to an antiandronergic effect. That means less testosteron is converted into Dihydrotestoseron. So we actually need an adrenergic agonist. There are lots of medication who are adrenergic agonists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-adrenergic_agonist#Clinical_significance
On the other hand less progesterone is converted into allopregnanolone. Less allopregnanone means more anxiety. So an option would be to take progesterone.
Regarding the theory that progesterone has an antiandrogeneric effect, this is not true. (Read under antiandrogenic effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics_of_progesterone#cite_note-pmid23484104-55 )
My progesterone is non existent in blood test. I will not test ANTIprogesterone drug on me. Im actually will do opposite. Will test progesterone cream/herb.
On 1/1/2022 at 7:05 PM, Moks said:My progesterone is non existent in blood test. I will not test ANTIprogesterone drug on me. Im actually will do opposite. Will test progesterone cream/herb.
Hey if your progesterone is low, taking progesterone might be an option. But I also found this, which might be of interest for you: https://www.pasforum.info/threads/progesterone-theory-of-pas-flynn.168/
Also there are ways to up regulate 5 alpha reductase naturally by supplementing glycin and niacinamid.
I will have blood work done and determine progesterone and allopregnanolone.
Tommy, there also thread on 1000 posts about progesterone treatment. With pretty good results. And also guy who tested mifepristone (antiprogesterone) used progesterone cream later anyway.
Will wait for your lab tests.
I tested 14 sex hormones, and only progesterone, testosterone, estradiol and dhea-s below normal. They're most important by the way.
And about natural supplements i ordered wild yam extract, it is natural progesterone boosting herb. Will see whats happen.
P.s. Dont know why quoting not working this time
On 1/2/2022 at 12:49 PM, Doctorcolumbus said:No, just the normal arm stiffening.
On 1/2/2022 at 11:33 AM, tryingtohelp2014 said:have any accutane long-haulers had a bad reaction to the covid19 shots?
Hi, yes the covid shots put me back to square one basically. I took low dose accutane (5mg per day)for oily skin and breakouts on my forehead, temples and hairline. I stayed on it for far too long because my skin was blemish free and I was afraid to go off. My skin went from perfect to hell which seems like it happened overnight. I've been struggling for over 2 years now with severe skin dryness, redness, flaking etc...After about 2K wasted on moisturizers, derm appts, supplements, esthetician appts etc I quiteverything cold turkey and decided to stop all skin care. I quit washing my face and was hoping my sebaceous glands would start working again on their own. It actually worked pretty well over this past summer as my skin seemed more hydrated and a lot less red and flaky. I decided to get the damn shot and it destroyed my skin again. I'm back to red dry flaking itchy skin not only on my face but in my scalp and my beard area. It had to be the shots as nothing changed from my routine. Its been 4 months and I still can't get back on track. I honestly lost faith in everything and don't know what else to do. I keep putting all this poison in my body and its really fuc*ed me up. Do you have issues from the shot as well?
Hi Guys, I am a silent reader already for some time and appreciate all the effort from everybody in fixing ourselves.
I took accutane twice, last time 12 years ago. Since then the side effects never disappeared. It is exactly the same as if I would still take accutane (dry skin, bad wound healing, dry nose/ears/mouth, depression (that one started during the second tane course)).
Now to my question: When I take 10.000IU of retinol/Vitamin A over 48h (5000 IU /day), so a low/totally normal doses)I get very serious poisoning symptoms (very high fever, lots of vomiting, very bad headache). I tried this two times because the first time I didn't think it was from the retinol and the second time I landed in the hospital (nobody found anything, ever).
I was wondering if that is something that a lot of people here on the board also have (the inability to take in any retinol without poisoning)?
Because I assume in my case the issue has something to do with retinol/retinoic acid metabolism (maybe genetic?).
I think something has really helped my skin, just keeping this short atm, its either the probiotic align which is a bifido longum strainI recently posted on, orpropionibacterium freudenreichii which is closely related to p.acnes.
Ive gone back and forth between the two of these, but its been a little hard to tell. I think one of these may be right and the other wrong, but I think what may be right could really help things long term.
Most have questioned genetics, im looking at bugs or microbes that may fill a void in vit a metabolism, or in the case of p.acnes, restore a bacteria that was destroyed.
To insert missing bacteria.
Theres a similar thought with side effects from Finasteride, although most dont care to understand the science that ive talked to.
Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study
- Borgo, et al (2020) found biological evidence that the use of finasteride alters gut bacteria. They found that both the structure and composition of specific bacteria had been modified. Knowing what we now know about the relationship between the gut microbiome and total wellness, theres a positive note to this study, which is the first of its kind. The authors note that these results suggest that gut microbiota composition might represent a diagnostic marker and a possible target for a therapeutic strategy aimed to counteract the important symptomatology occurring in these patients.[i] In other words, strengthening the gut environment might mean fewer negative effects of finasteride.
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On 12/8/2021 at 10:16 AM, LLL3 said:Aaron it's not just a healthy diet. It's a natural diet for human beings. 100% organic fruits and simple salads with a ton of water will make each and every single human being feel better regardless of their condition. I didn't say all better and I didn't say right away. So you use words like healthy and work. But you didn't mention to what extent. Everyone will react differently of course. The main thing is that you do it. You really think there's much of a difference between the chemicals they put in processed foods and the chemicals they put in Accutane that poisoned our bodies?But you didn't mention to what extent. Everyone will react differently of course. The main thing is that you do it. You really think there's much of a difference between the chemicals they put in processed foods and the chemicals they put in Accutane that poisoned our bodies? There really isn't. We've been eating that garbage our entire lives, cut it out and feel better There really isn't. We've been eating that garbage our entire lives, cut it out and feel better
Absolutely there is a huge difference between processed food additives and accutane. One is non radioactive. Accutane is radioactive, with an extremely long halflife. It's also a vitamin A derivative. Processed food additives are not vitamin derivatives. The body wants real vitamin A, but accutane impairs it's ability to absorb and utilize real vitamin A due to accutanes presence.
Ever since I've had the biofeedback machine, 3 superfoods consistently show up in food lists for multiple areas of the body. Laminaria, black currant, and garlic. Beef liver also shows up from time to time.
Right now I'm doing hourly scans and supplementing every hour, and 95% of the time the three superfoods above are supplemented. When beef liver show up I do that also. I'm dreaming more than I have in years, and eating far less daily calories than I have in years. Laminaria and black currant are both available in bulk powder, and size 000 capsules are also available. The undefatted beef liver and kyolic garlic I buy in capsule form. Sticking with this program for a while and will see how it goes.
On 1/2/2022 at 11:33 AM, tryingtohelp2014 said:have any accutane long-haulers had a bad reaction to the covid19 shots?
They already damaged me once with accutane. No way will I ever let them damage me again. Official stats indicate that over 1 million Americans have been injured by the vaccine, with over 20k American deaths from the vaccine.
9 hours ago, luk55 said:Hi Guys, I am a silent reader already for some time and appreciate all the effort from everybody in fixing ourselves.
I took accutane twice, last time 12 years ago. Since then the side effects never disappeared. It is exactly the same as if I would still take accutane (dry skin, bad wound healing, dry nose/ears/mouth, depression (that one started during the second tane course)).
Now to my question: When I take 10.000IU of retinol/Vitamin A over 48h (5000 IU /day), so a low/totally normal doses)I get very serious poisoning symptoms (very high fever, lots of vomiting, very bad headache). I tried this two times because the first time I didn't think it was from the retinol and the second time I landed in the hospital (nobody found anything, ever).
I was wondering if that is something that a lot of people here on the board also have (the inability to take in any retinol without poisoning)?
Because I assume in my case the issue has something to do with retinol/retinoic acid metabolism (maybe genetic?).
You're def not alone with retinol sensitivity. It is a hallmark of accutane poisoning. It's the reason why beef liver rarely show up high in my machines recommended foods lists. But when it does show up high, and I take it, it definitely helps my sleep.
Vitamin A is a 5 alpha reductase promoter. If a toxic vitamin A derivative known as accutane is still attached to our nuclear receptors, rxr and rar, it makes it extremely difficult for the body to ingest and utilize real vitamin A without incurring serious issues.
I'd like to think that an nrf2 promoter like black currant combined with alginic acid rich brown seaweed would be enough to pull it out, but I don't know. Black currant also inhibits beta glucuronidase, which is an enzyme that recycles toxic poisons back into circulation. Alginic acid from brown seaweed binds to toxic radiation and pulls it from the body.
Guitarman's info on b infantis is quite interesting. I'm wondering if prebiotic foods such as laminaria, aged garlic, and black currant could increase the gut population of b infantis. Will keep the board posted.
Basically we have the symptoms of chronic hypervitaminosis A. Has anyone ever tried to take Vitamin E because this study says it alleviates the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A and is not toxic.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119534654
I've tried vitamin e with horrible results. Vitamin e competes with vitamin a as they are both fat soluble vitamins. You're right about the hypervitaminosis A symptoms. The problem is we are suffering from fake vitamin A overdose, and our bodies want true vitamin A. My biofeedback machine seems to be recommending foods designed to remove the fake, radioactive vitamin A and replenish true vitamin A. Laminaria, black currant, aged garlic, and beef liver. Bananas, apricots and pumpkin also show up high on the list often.
On 1/4/2022 at 8:25 PM, luk55 said:Hi Guys, I am a silent reader already for some time and appreciate all the effort from everybody in fixing ourselves.
I took accutane twice, last time 12 years ago. Since then the side effects never disappeared. It is exactly the same as if I would still take accutane (dry skin, bad wound healing, dry nose/ears/mouth, depression (that one started during the second tane course)).
Now to my question: When I take 10.000IU of retinol/Vitamin A over 48h (5000 IU /day), so a low/totally normal doses)I get very serious poisoning symptoms (very high fever, lots of vomiting, very bad headache). I tried this two times because the first time I didn't think it was from the retinol and the second time I landed in the hospital (nobody found anything, ever).
I was wondering if that is something that a lot of people here on the board also have (the inability to take in any retinol without poisoning)?
Because I assume in my case the issue has something to do with retinol/retinoic acid metabolism (maybe genetic?).
Any other people here who can tell me if it is the same for them after taking accutane years ago, that they react to taking retinol in low doses (5000-10000 IU) with serious poisoning symptoms?
(and still having exactly the same side effects as if they were still taking the drug without any changes)
@Dargon76 Thanks for your input!
6 hours ago, Thommy280495 said:Basically we have the symptoms of chronic hypervitaminosis A. Has anyone ever tried to take Vitamin E because this study says it alleviates the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A and is not toxic.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119534654
Yes, this was looked at 10-15 years ago
Its true that Vit E helps with Vit A toxicity but to Aarons point, we dont have what youd call traditional Vit A toxicity
You can try, I find Vit D to be more beneficial in terms fat soluble vitamins to take
6 hours ago, luk55 said:
Any other people here who can tell me if it is the same for them after taking accutane years ago, that they react to taking retinol in low doses (5000-10000 IU) with serious poisoning symptoms?
(and still having exactly the same side effects as if they were still taking the drug without any changes)
@Dargon76 Thanks for your input!
Theres a couple studies I have posted either here or elsewhere, that while on accutane, it is retinol/retinal that built up in the skin, NOT retinoic acid. Accutane is long gone, but maybe there could be some form of altered vitamin a metabolism.
Oral isotretinoin (13-cis-retinoic acid) therapy in severe acne: drug and vitamin A concentrations in serum and skin
Even at the highest dosage there was no progressive accumulation of isotretinoin in serum, epidermis, or subcutis. After discontinuation of therapy the drug disappeared from both serum and skin within 2-4 weeks. The serum transport of vitamin A, monitored by the concentrations of retinol, retinol-binding protein, and prealbumin (transthyretin), was not affected by the treatment. By contrast, the retinol level in the epidermis increased by an average of 53% (p less than 0.01) and the dehydroretinol level decreased by 79% (p less than 0.001) as a result of 3 months of treatment. Both changes were reversible. The results suggest that isotretinoin therapy interferes with the endogenous vitamin A metabolism in the skin.
Isotretinoin treatment of severe acne affects the endogenous concentration of vitamin A in sebaceous glands
Oral isotretinoin markedly increases retinol levels and decreases dehydroretinol levels in the skin while on therapy. The effect is more pronounced in sebaceous glands than in epidermis and dermis. The increased retinol levels probably reflect a metabolic interference with endogenous vitamin A,