I had overactive bladder and digestive issues in the past. Depression and anxiety came before all other issues. Main issues now are sexual, joints, sleep, fatigue and slow metabolism. Biofilam seems to be lessening my issues. More energy, less pain. But still not recovered.

Aaron

what are your thoughts on testosterone cream/gel?

Get some energy and power back into the body!!

I tried testosterone cream in the past and my testes started to shrink. Also made me very angry. Also, the dose was crucial. Too much and my prostate felt like it would explode. I think the anger was because my body was still toxic from accutane.

Yes, it will shrink your balls but unless you plan to start a family than I dont think you need to worry about that

Also, you have to go on the right amount of DHEA, Pregnenolone and Melatonin with the Testosterone yeah?

Thats my basic understanding of it

You have to have enough vitamin c to inhibit aromatase. Anyone who would try to perform a balancing act with a bunch of different hormones has no understanding of human health. God gave us all the medicine we need in the form of plants and animals. Man has fucked it all up with toxic pharmaceuticals.

Testosterone does no good if your androgen receptors are messed up, which ours are. Clean androgen receptors are needed to receive the testosterone.

Youre right, man has fuckedthings up, theres no disputing that

Thats the point though,going natural for us doesnt work. A better quality of life might be obtained going on a hormone replacement therapy- as unnatural as it sounds!

Im tired of this state, Ive tried my hardest- for over 20 years Ive given the natural angle every chance possible of working- success has been very limited I have to say

The reason the natural approach has failed you is you haven't yet utilized the right natural tool for your issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but currently I believe the issue is radioactive retinoic acid trapped in your tissues. I just popped three of the biofilam for my nightly dose. Will pop three more 12 hours from now. I've never had any luck with any pharmaceuticals or hormones. Natural has always been more beneficial for me.

I had a liver cleanse, I wanted to try it and shit, I was sick and vomited the last day and that it was not caused by ingested ingredients, I failed the last day and maybe I did not do it again, I felt faint with the desire to vomit.

On 8/20/2021 at 3:37 AM, TrueJustice said:

Youre right, man has fuckedthings up, theres no disputing that

Thats the point though,going natural for us doesnt work. A better quality of life might be obtained going on a hormone replacement therapy- as unnatural as it sounds!

Im tired of this state, Ive tried my hardest- for over 20 years Ive given the natural angle every chance possible of working- success has been very limited I have to say

I actually think low estrogen isa problem we have. Estrogen receptor alpha (ERa) and beta (ERb) are expressed in differentiating sebocytes. Low estrogen synthesis causes dry dehydrayed skin, joint pain and hairloss(like menopausal women).

Accutane may have caused metabolic problems leading to low aromatase and high 5 alpha reductase activity.

https://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/FullText/2010/11000/Treatment_of_Male_Pattern_Baldness_with_Botulinum.79.aspx

"The enzymatic conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is oxygen dependent. In low-oxygen environments, the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is favored; whereas in high-oxygen environments, more testosterone is converted to estradiol."

This is about mpb, but might also be interesting for some. Basically, in low oxygen environments (because inflammation?), testerone will convert to DHT. This downregulates aromatase and as a result estradiol synthesis. Since i'm using finasteride, my scalp itch is gone and my lips are better hydrated (possibly because more T is converted to E2 instead of DHT). My hair didn't improve much though. The texture is still pretty brittle, but slightly better.

What i think is: Some of us might have low testosterone (Don't know how exactly, but possibly because of insulin resistance. Worst case leydig cell death). I also think there is a high conversion rate of T to DHT (because of oxidative stress and inflammation). And finally, some might have low estradiol (E2) because estrogen synthesis (aromatase) is downregulated while 5 alpha reductase activity is upregulated. This will lead to dry skin and lips, scalp itching, joint pain and hairloss.

So maybe hormones might work, but not sure in what way. Aren't there many post-accutane sufferers who tried TRT and/or steroids without much success? I'm beginning to think that low estrogen synthesis is a problem. Maybe also low testosterone. Maybe 5 alpha reductase activity is upregulated to compensate for low testosterone. This will lead to low T, low E and high DHT. I think this might be the situation for many.

Im very close to just saying fuck it and experimenting with TRT. Not with injections but rather the cream

Apparently you can expect shrinking balls, acne ( how ironic ) and possibly it can cause baldness Ive read

I dunno, so many have moved on from this site, theyve either accepted their shitty state or theyve recovered and moved on.who would know if TRT works or not.

7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Im very close to just saying fuck it and experimenting with TRT. Not with injections but rather the cream

Apparently you can expect shrinking balls, acne ( how ironic ) and possibly it can cause baldness Ive read

I dunno, so many have moved on from this site, theyve either accepted their shitty state or theyve recovered and moved on.who would know if TRT works or not.

I think if you don't plan to have kids, TRT could be an option. It will probably help in some ways, although i'm not sure how much it would help.

One thing is for sure: you need hormones whether it's E or T. And i supect some of us will have low T AND low E (and probably high 5 alpha reductase activity and DHT and maybe low SHBG if you have insulin resistance and/or hypothyroidism). If both T and E are low, you will feel very bad and have joint pain and dry skin just like menopausal women.

You don't really want high 5 alpha reductase activity and DHT, it's not the same as T. DHT will cause dry skin and lips, scalp itching, hairloss and water loss (because aromatase is downregulated). What we want is water retention in our skin and aromatase is needed for this. Estrogen doesn't cause dry skin, in fact it causes water/moisture retention and uptegulates sebum. If women go into menopause, their E drops dramatically and they experience, dry thin skin, hairloss, joint pain and hot flashes. This is al because of low estrogen synthesis and probably a rise in 5 alpha reductase activity.

High T and E will cause thick, waxy sebum like most have in their teens (me included). DHT can also cause oily skin, but the texture is different: it's thin and slippery sebum. After accutane, sometimes my skin can get "oily", but it's not sticky and thick like before. It's just thin and slippery like pizza grease. This actually indicates high DHT, but low T and E. DHT won't give you the positive effects of testosterone or estrogen. In my teens, i had oily, waxyskin but never had i irritated itchy skin like after accutane. And fin made the itch go away and made my lips better hydrated. Don't take fin, but these are my observations. I also don't experience bad side effects on fin. I'm 5 months on it and everything is fine libido included. Conclusion: since i'm on fin, i improved in some ways (lips, itchy skin). It doesn't really help that much for my hair but it disn't get worse and maybe slightly better.

If your T goes up, your E2 also goes up(and i think SHBG also goes up but not sure), so maybe TRT could help you. If you don't want kids, thereare not many reasons why you shouldn't consider it i think. I don't think it will solve the fundamental problems accutane caused, but will probably make you feel better.

Anyway having both low T and low E isn't healthy.

You can still have kids and do a TRT plan. You just stop taking it and then go back on again.

This hormone thing is hard to work out. Tests in say first 20 yrs post tane not once showed a problem with testosterone or anything. Then mid 40s I start to have lower testosterone after blood tests.My general symptoms though are still always the same since day dot??

I wanna know more about this leydigcell death theory.Could it be that that hasbeen the issue all along butcan you test for it??

7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

You can still have kids and do a TRT plan. You just stop taking it and then go back on again.

This hormone thing is hard to work out. Tests in say first 20 yrs post tane not once showed a problem with testosterone or anything. Then mid 40s I start to have lower testosterone after blood tests.My general symptoms though are still always the same since day dot??

I wanna know more about this leydigcell death theory.Could it be that that hasbeen the issue all along butcan you test for it??

We know accutane causes apoptosis in many different cells, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it also caused apoptosis in leydig cells. If i understand it correctly, the problem with this would be that once these cells die, they can't regenerate. But on the other hand, i don't think this is the problem for most people.

But like you said, your T levels were fine until your mid 40s. I personally don't think accutane can cause low testosterone directly (indirectly it could). Women have the same problems without testosterone.

The thing is: if accutane causes chronic inflammation and insulin resistance, your testosterone will be used less efficiently. But this goes for other hormones as well. Basically testosterone isn't the problem, but it could be affected as a result of insulin resistance and a whacked retinol metabolism. The importance of retinol and it's metabolites is underestimated. It acts like hormones and controls gene transcription. Vitamin A is not really a vitamin.

Personally, i never had libido or erectile problems from accutane. I just got low energy in general and felt unable to be happy and anxious. Of course this can also affect libido sometimes, but has nothing to do with testosterone.

I think if you really wanna do TRT, you can consider it. All menget lower testosterone when they get older. It probably won't solve your accutane induced problems, but could help you in other ways. Personally, i wouldn't do TRT but i'm 21. I focus on insulin resistance, retinol metabolism and the dopaminergic system.

I have to say, i'm partly recovered and think i will leave this place soon. My digestive issues improved a lot, i feel normal most of the time and just wanna leave this behind me. I look at it from a positive view: accutane gave me clear skin and that's all i gotta remember. It wasn't my best decision, but i won't have to regret this for the rest of my life.

On 8/23/2021 at 12:48 AM, TrueJustice said:

Im very close to just saying fuck it and experimenting with TRT. Not with injections but rather the cream

Apparently you can expect shrinking balls, acne ( how ironic ) and possibly it can cause baldness Ive read

I dunno, so many have moved on from this site, theyve either accepted their shitty state or theyve recovered and moved on.who would know if TRT works or not.

Firstly, injections are superior to cream. The cream has a poor and inconsistent absorption rate. You will get more stable blood serum concentration levels using daily subcutaneous injections with an insulin needle. It's really nothing you don't even feel it. No different to taking a pill except takes maybe 30 seconds longer.

Exogenous testosterone causes suppression of pituitary hormone called Lieutinising Hormone, so your testicles stop producing it because your body thinks you have had enough, over time this can lead to atrophy (shrinkage).

This can be completely countered with HCG, which limits LH, enabling you to retain full size and fertility.

In regard to baldness (also acne for that matter), this is going to depend on your genetics at the end of the day, if you have a high sensitivity to DHT, more DHT will cause miniaturisation at a faster rate than you would have naturally, if you are on the lower side of the spectrum for sensitivity, it's nothing to worry about.

The best thing to do if you haven't already, is organise a full blood panel TRT + check with medichecks, thereafter, see private clinicians that specialise to analyse your results.

Best in the UK is The Mens Health Clinic in Devon (I believe?), with Dr Robert Stevens

22 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

You can still have kids and do a TRT plan. You just stop taking it and then go back on again.

This hormone thing is hard to work out. Tests in say first 20 yrs post tane not once showed a problem with testosterone or anything. Then mid 40s I start to have lower testosterone after blood tests.My general symptoms though are still always the same since day dot??

I wanna know more about this leydigcell death theory.Could it be that that hasbeen the issue all along butcan you test for it??

You don't even necessarily need to stop if you are taking HCG in conjunction, but yeah, in the low possibility of needing to, Palumbo protocol of HCG + Clomid will stimulate enough sperm production. Anecdotally , I have heard that men on HRT, or long term steroid abusers are much more likely to produce female offspring than natural men. How true this is is not yet studied, but does seem to be a noticeable trend. Personally, I do not care at all one way or the other, not looking for some male heir to stroke my ego, happy with whatever occurs.

Thanks for the detail there judgement- I appreciate it.

Are you on a HRT program yourself?

Are you an Accutane victim?

I still cant decide if this depression is hormone related or dopamine related???

I was about same age as Lifesuckshard when I took tane 21-22. Got the same depression hes got and similarly never had testosterone issues in the early years post tane,makes you think the origin of this depression is not testosterone related from that point of view.Theres more to it than this asyou get older because testosterone can and does get lower as you get older BUTregardless would hate to go in HRT if its not the real issue at play here.

Dont expect you to answer this, just merely making a point

thanks again

On 8/24/2021 at 10:30 AM, Lifesuckshard said:

We know accutane causes apoptosis in many different cells, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it also caused apoptosis in leydig cells. If i understand it correctly, the problem with this would be that once these cells die, they can't regenerate. But on the other hand, i don't think this is the problem for most people.

But like you said, your T levels were fine until your mid 40s. I personally don't think accutane can cause low testosterone directly (indirectly it could). Women have the same problems without testosterone.

The thing is: if accutane causes chronic inflammation and insulin resistance, your testosterone will be used less efficiently. But this goes for other hormones as well. Basically testosterone isn't the problem, but it could be affected as a result of insulin resistance and a whacked retinol metabolism. The importance of retinol and it's metabolites is underestimated. It acts like hormones and controls gene transcription. Vitamin A is not really a vitamin.

Personally, i never had libido or erectile problems from accutane. I just got low energy in general and felt unable to be happy and anxious. Of course this can also affect libido sometimes, but has nothing to do with testosterone.

I think if you really wanna do TRT, you can consider it. All menget lower testosterone when they get older. It probably won't solve your accutane induced problems, but could help you in other ways. Personally, i wouldn't do TRT but i'm 21. I focus on insulin resistance, retinol metabolism and the dopaminergic system.

I have to say, i'm partly recovered and think i will leave this place soon. My digestive issues improved a lot, i feel normal most of the time and just wanna leave this behind me. I look at it from a positive view: accutane gave me clear skin and that's all i gotta remember. It wasn't my best decision, but i won't have to regret this for the rest of my life.

Could you explain what did you do from the beginning to partly recover ?

4 hours ago, DeadCobra said:

Could you explain what did you do from the beginning to partly recover ?

I started using finasteride 5 months ago. This made my scalp itch go away and fixed my dry lips (has something to do with aldosterone). My skin in general seems less irritated. If i quit fin, these problems would come back. But i don't recommend fin because some people have a bad reaction. Personally, i'm totally fine on fin and it actually improved some things.

Im also taking pioglitazone for a month and my digestive issues are much better since i started using this. I 1lso got more energy after eating (it used to make me feel tired). Piog is also used off label for ulcerative collitis, lpp, frontal fibrosing alopecia and major depression. I will use it for 10 more weeks because i don't wanna use it longterm.

And besides that, im just taking it easy in life. Eating healthy, no more alcohol, trying to relax as much as possible and avoid stress. Also a bit intermittent fasting for insulin resistance.

So ive gone back and forth on this as I think calcified has seen quite a few of my posts on propeciahelp,

but I once again find myself looking at the propionibacterium species itself as a cause of long term side effects post Accutane.

It could play a vital role in mucosal immunity.

This will influence alot, even cognitive function.

Spending much time looking at PFS, I realize it is firstly a mental disorder, although most dont want to admit this or they become unaware.

3 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

So ive gone back and forth on this as I think calcified has seen quite a few of my posts on propeciahelp,

but I once again find myself looking at the propionibacterium species itself as a cause of long term side effects post Accutane.

It could play a vital role in mucosal immunity.

This will influence alot, even cognitive function.

Spending much time looking at PFS, I realize it is firstly a mental disorder, although most dont want to admit this or they become unaware.

 

 

You seem quite interested in the intestinal bacteria that are eliminated by this drug, have you considered that this substance affects more the intestinal epithelium and its entire composition? Perhaps this is why a few get Crohn's disease or to be more specific, those who live in a more industrialized country and take this drug are the cases that have been known.

On 9/1/2021 at 3:19 PM, george20 said:

You seem quite interested in the intestinal bacteria that are eliminated by this drug, have you considered that this substance affects more the intestinal epithelium and its entire composition? Perhaps this is why a few get Crohn's disease or to be more specific, those who live in a more industrialized country and take this drug are the cases that have been known.

So these people getting Crohn's, it's after treatment or during?

10 hours ago, Calcified said:

 

So these people getting Crohn's, it's after treatment or during?

 

From what I have seen, people contract the diseases in the first months, maybe 1 or 2, here a father commented that they detected Crohn's disease in the second month of accutane, the others contract the diseases while they are in treatment, I also read a woman who developed Crohn ten years after accutane, but in her country it is not so rare to have this condition so perhaps it was not induced by accutane.

Are there any other support groups for survivors dealing with chronic effects?

I thought I found one on Facebook but it's mixed including people currently taking it and hoping for positive encouragement.

I'll have to check out this thread, I am so grateful I found it. My main issues are dryness of the face, mouth mucosa dryness, flushing (blushing/redness) episodes of the face (kind of like rosacea), hair grows out dry and straw-like, and mental health (depression, exacerbated learning and ADHD difficulties).

My goal would be to have a little network for support as well as to improve my basic medical understanding of my chronic effects, more for the sake of understanding, awareness of the extent, and peace of mind rather than expecting any cures at this point (It's been over 15 years since I took it).

I set up anemail just for this purpose for a little privacy as I'm not even sure if people will reach out, but I'd love to hear from you if you relate, and the email will go straight to my main inbox on my phone and will definitely respond and happy to connect by phone too

If you're looking to connect or perhaps create a support groupplsshoot me an email at [removed]

Take care

I've given up on the natural approach, and hope to have a generic flomax Rx within the next day. I don't think the drug is still in us. I believe it's permanent brain damage. It's always felt like accutane put me in a permanent fight or flight mode, similar to ptsd.

With ptsd, dopamine is constantly converted to adrenaline, and you end up with low dopamine and excessive adrenaline release for life. Probably the most effective way to stop this is with an alpha blocker such as flomax. Will keep the board posted with the flomax use in the coming weeks.

Brain damage???

What about about the other things weve come to know before we conclude that.

Lymphatic drainage from head.

Vit A accumulation in head.

Chronic inflammation in head ( and the body for that matter )

All these issues are at play for me determined by kinesiologist

I will continue to work on these before determining its flat out brain damage. If Im to believe my kinesiologist when I asked him to get feedback from brain about any damage the answer backwas no.

Each to their own I guess in what we do next.

Brain damage can impair lymphatic flow. It can impair vitamin A metabolism. Causes chronic inflammation in the head and body. Alters the gut microbiome. Im surprised you weren't able to make those connections.

My biofeedback machine has always recommended flomax as a pharmaceutical solution for my prostate issues, but I've always avoided it due to the retrograde ejaculation it causes. I've come to think that retrograde ejaculation is something I will unfortunately have to live with. Will post results soon.