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13 hours ago, george20 said:So ... does oranism consume fake vitamin A? How would this be possible? A point could be reached where the vitamin from the pills will no longer be present and only natural vitamin A will reach the body. What damages the body is 13-retinoic acid.
There are tests that measure the inflammation of all the organs of the body, unfortunately I had no inflammation and I was even very low as always.what is your theory?
13 cis retinoic acid is fake vitamin A, but the body is able to isomerise it into ATRA. This is what affects gene transcription and causes apoptosis.
Normally, everything should go back to normal once you stop taking it. But if there is still some accutane stored in your tissues, it will take a bit longer for things to go back to normal (but eventually, it would still happen).
But if the accutane inflamed your adipose tissues and caused insulin resistance, aldh1a3 (and ATRA) will be permanently upregulated even after stopping. These images should make it clear. If you developed insulin resistance, it doesn't matter if all accutane is gone from the body because now aldh1a3 is permanently upregulated and ATRA levels stay high.
So my theory is that we're retinol deficientbecause if we consume vitamin A, it gets instantly converted to ATRA with the aldh1a3 enzyme which is upregulated if you developed insulin resistance. A ppar y agonist will improve insulin resistance and downregulate aldh1a3.
1 hour ago, DeadCobra said:So how do we find a ppar agonist ?
The most potent ppar y agonistsare TZD's. They are used to treat diabetes, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, cicatricial alopecias and it's even shown to help with depression. Pioglitazone seems the safest of the TZD's.
28 minutes ago, Lifesuckshard said:So my theory is that we're retinol deficientbecause if we consume vitamin A, it gets instantly converted to ATRA with the aldh1a3 enzyme which is upregulated if you developed insulin resistance. A ppar y agonist will improve insulin resistance and downregulate aldh1a3.
The most potent ppar y agonistsare TZD's. They are used to treat diabetes, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, cicatricial alopecias and it's even shown to help with depression. Pioglitazone seems the safest of the TZD's.
Not sure youll have an answer but Ill ask you anyway, my visit to kinesiologist yesterday and him determining high retinol lvls in various organs including all thru the brain. You say retinol deficiency, could it be that the reason for my high lvls is that my body isnt processing retinol properly so its just accumulating in the body - in your mind could that be plausible??
By the way, thanks for your post on the subject, me showing him that post from the other dayreally got him testing copper and retinol specifically on yesterdays visit,normally I wouldnt try to direct him but felt its time to look into this again
10 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Not sure youll have an answer but Ill ask you anyway, my visit to kinesiologist yesterday and him determining high retinol lvls in various organs including all thru the brain. You say retinol deficiency, could it be that the reason for my high lvls is that my body isnt processing retinol properly so its just accumulating in the body - in your mind could that be plausible??
By the way, thanks for your post on the subject, me showing him that post from the other dayreally got him testing copper and retinol specifically on yesterdays visit,normally I wouldnt try to direct him but felt its time to look into this again
I don't really have an answer for that. What kinda test is that? I had an mri of my brain and they discovered many white matter lesions. At first i wasn't sure it was because of accutane, but now i'm 100% sure. Look at this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23129024/
We know accutane causes iron overload. In the brain, this can cause demyelination. The good news is new myelin growth can occur in damaged areas. These TZD's should be capable of doing that if the studies are right.
And maybe you're right that your body can't process retinol so it accumulates. Maybe some gets converted to ATRA and some just accumulates in your tissues, i have no idea. But i think the insulin resistance theory makes a lot of sense. At least for me it does.
And i also don't really understand the copper thing. Acne patients are found to have lower copper levels and this causes more sebum production. So our copper levels were probably already low before starting accutane. It's not clear to me what accutane's effecton copper is. There is literature that says it wipes you of copper and makes it bio unavailable. But some people here reported copper overload so it's confusing. Retinol deficiency also causes acne so maybe the reason some of us had acne before accutane was copper and retinol deficiency (which could cause hypothyroidism). And accutane made this worse. And because theoil glands can't upregulatesebum production anymore in order tohandle these deficiencies, it leads to metabolic problems. But i don't know, it's confusing.
9 hours ago, george20 said:Good point, this substance itself is a cause of apoptosis in the skin, because it kills the production of sebum.
I would not be surprised if it causes it in other cells of the body, this would explain the people who begin to feel problems a month after stopping the pills.
That's exactly the problem. It not only causes apoptosis in sebocytes but also in many other cells of the body. Here you can see all parts of the body it causes apoptosis:
https://www.medicaljournals.se/acta/content/html/10.2340/00015555-2535
but apoptosis does not advance after the end of the treatment, it is assumed that once the treatment is stopped the apoptosis must stop and the cells will start working again.
This could explain to people who regain acne or sebum on their skin after finishing treatment.
On the other hand, if many were left with dry skin and effects that cannot be removed, perhaps this is an indication that enough pills were taken to suppress the glands of the body, because I think there are no records here of people who began to have dry skin After finishing their treatment, those since accutane administration were left with the long-term effect of dry skin.
Well, to the point, if these people were left with long-term dry skin, this means that they were constantly taking the pills to the point where their cells no longer resisted and caused the glands to shrink or took in more substance than they could. it was due in his body or more substance than the cells could take in. The body can resist, once the glands are diminished it may be logical that other cells of the body have been induced by apoptosis, this is a bit strange since in my experience reading I have been able to see that people who have more advanced effects or effects Stronger are all those left with dry skin after stopping or ending treatment.
Sorry for my English
I think that in this thread I never mentioned my symptoms after accutane, I will in case someone is in the same boat.
I don't know if they were caused by accutane, since at that time I had a lot of anguish about my university grades and I also had very strong personal problems.
my normal casual symptoms were:
-Dry face and dry hair but not much
- Lips a little dry
- Nosebleeds (only blood 2 times)
- constipation
- Set of dry skin behind my ears
These effects returned to normal and I even gained more sebum (I love my face now even though it has acne, scars and sebum) since I took it only for a few days after informing me that the pills are capable.
Most worrying effects:
- Intestinal burning and intestinal pain
-severe constipation
- Nausea in the early morning (I never have nausea and I only had it 1 time during accutane, maybe it was normal)
Well, the burning of einetstinos improved by 100% and it is no longer, neither the constipation and the nausea less.
Now I'm crazy about gut health, but my gut habits changed and it was because of my stress.
I think the burning of the intestines was caused by accutane, my gastroenterologist explained to me that the medications damage and can burn the intestinal lining. Although I have always suffered from intestines since I was little.
On 7/20/2021 at 5:40 PM, Lifesuckshard said:I don't really have an answer for that. What kinda test is that? I had an mri of my brain and they discovered many white matter lesions. At first i wasn't sure it was because of accutane, but now i'm 100% sure. Look at this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23129024/
We know accutane causes iron overload. In the brain, this can cause demyelination. The good news is new myelin growth can occur in damaged areas. These TZD's should be capable of doing that if the studies are right.
And maybe you're right that your body can't process retinol so it accumulates. Maybe some gets converted to ATRA and some just accumulates in your tissues, i have no idea. But i think the insulin resistance theory makes a lot of sense. At least for me it does.
And i also don't really understand the copper thing. Acne patients are found to have lower copper levels and this causes more sebum production. So our copper levels were probably already low before starting accutane. It's not clear to me what accutane's effecton copper is. There is literature that says it wipes you of copper and makes it bio unavailable. But some people here reported copper overload so it's confusing. Retinol deficiency also causes acne so maybe the reason some of us had acne before accutane was copper and retinol deficiency (which could cause hypothyroidism). And accutane made this worse. And because theoil glands can't upregulatesebum production anymore in order tohandle these deficiencies, it leads to metabolic problems. But i don't know, it's confusing.
That's exactly the problem. It not only causes apoptosis in sebocytes but also in many other cells of the body. Here you can see all parts of the body it causes apoptosis:
https://www.medicaljournals.se/acta/content/html/10.2340/00015555-2535
Ever considered obsorption of vitamin A is reduced? Might be alot simpler than anyone suspects.
9 hours ago, Calcified said:Ever considered obsorption of vitamin A is reduced? Might be alot simpler than anyone suspects.
that could be a very strong possibility
look up Vit A deficiency - dry skin, slow wound healing, night blindness, slow growth.
All things listed in posts on this board
Ill start to delve deeper next week with kinesiologist, look into absorption of A.Im thinking this could lead us again back to the liver. Something is still wrong with the liver I suspect in all of this.
5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:that could be a very strong possibility
look up Vit A deficiency - dry skin, slow wound healing, night blindness, slow growth.
All things listed in posts on this board
Ill start to delve deeper next week with kinesiologist, look into absorption of A.Im thinking this could lead us again back to the liver. Something is still wrong with the liver I suspect in all of this.
Honestly, if someone one day says accutane teaches the body to shit out all forms of dietary vitamin A, I won't be at all surprised.
As you may be aware I have taken retinyl palmitate for some time now, this is what I'm currently questioning. Is most of it just going down the toilet?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20626630/
Accutane causes iron overload. This is what caused my brain lesions and this is what causes dopaminergic problems. I started taking pioglitazone 2 days ago, this should reverse everything (don't know if i will ever fully recover though). I will keep you guys updated.
I had a tendency to fatty liver (non-alcoholic steatohepatitis) before accutane, thanks to that test I could see that my liver was not well, I had high levels of bilirubin and other substances produced by the liver much higher than normal and they even did tests on me of fatty liver grade, after accutane my liver levels were normal and I no longer have a tendency to non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.
24 minutes ago, george20 said:I had a tendency to fatty liver (non-alcoholic steatohepatitis) before accutane, thanks to that test I could see that my liver was not well, I had high levels of bilirubin and other substances produced by the liver much higher than normal and they even did tests on me of fatty liver grade, after accutane my liver levels were normal and I no longer have a tendency to non-alcoholic steatohepatitis.
So you had fatty liver before taking accutane and now you don't anymore? That's strange. But i also had something strange. My cholesterol got lower while on accutane while it was expected to get higher.
5 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:So you had fatty liver before taking accutane and now you don't anymore? That's strange. But i also had something strange. My cholesterol got lower while on accutane while it was expected to get higher.
If I go down and now the analyzes are normal, maybe where I manage my food better.
He also had prediabetes, which was reversed after accutane.
It should be noted that I am a person of normal build who previously practiced athletics but I left it a couple of years ago, although I still have unmatched endurance, I can run miles without getting tired.
I left athletics about 3 1/2 years ago because I have cholinergic urticaria.
By the way, my symptoms are not enough to be IBS, and I do not think so either ... I can eat as much as I want without getting sick and my belly is still flat, I do not meet the requirements of Rome 3 or 4 or for close. I don't think I have such a thing either, but my intestines are more angry than before.
It does not bring me closer to either side of IBS, nor to discomfort and less intolerance, despite the fact that I eat a lot of fructose, milk and gluten without any symptoms or muscle pain typical of IBS. : /
6 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20626630/
Accutane causes iron overload. This is what caused my brain lesions and this is what causes dopaminergic problems. I started taking pioglitazone 2 days ago, this should reverse everything (don't know if i will ever fully recover though). I will keep you guys updated.
do you have other issues as a result of this iron problem?
do you have slow wound healing, varicose veins, thinning hair?
aside from mri which looked for brain legions, what tests can you do for this iron issue to know for sure?
not so long ago, my iron lvls were low in a regular blood test
7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:do you have other issues as a result of this iron problem?
do you have slow wound healing, varicose veins, thinning hair?
aside from mri which looked for brain legions, what tests can you do for this iron issue to know for sure?
not so long ago, my iron lvls were low in a regular blood test
My hair is losing densitysince taking accutane. The texture also got fucked (brittle, breakage, not soft like before). And the problem is mitochondrial iron overload so i don't know if this can be tested. Same with copper. The problem is in the mitochondria. And most problems i have post accutane indicate iron overload. This causes all dopaminergic problems and people with sexual sides probably don't have a testosterone problem, but a dopamine problem.
2 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:My hair is losing densitysince taking accutane. The texture also got fucked (brittle, breakage, not soft like before). And the problem is mitochondrial iron overload so i don't know if this can be tested. Same with copper. The problem is in the mitochondria. And most problems i have post accutane indicate iron overload. This causes all dopaminergic problems and people with sexual sides probably don't have a testosterone problem, but a dopamine problem.
Was it hard getting your GP to prescribe you pioglitazone?
15 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:I got it from mobidoctor. It wasvery easy to get a prescription. I just explained the mechanism of accutane and why i need a ppar y agonist for my long term problems.
good one, hopefully you get some great results from this. Well done on showing the courage to try it
If I can also ask, why do you think our hair is dry and brittle? Is this insulin or dopamine related in your opinion?
7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:good one, hopefully you get some great results from this. Well done on showing the courage to try it
If I can also ask, why do you think our hair is dry and brittle? Is this insulin or dopamine related in your opinion?
I think there are multiple reasons our hair is suffering. First of all, it's drier because there is less sebum. But this isn't the biggest problem. Thereare many people with dry skin/hair while it's still healthy.
Just like our skin, the hair shaft can't hold water anymore post accutane, and this causes the textural problems (brittle, breakage, kinking). Ppar y activation should improve water retention in the skin and hair shaft.
The increased shedding and loss of density is because ATRA affects the hair cycle. ALDH1a3 is found in hair follicles and if insulin resistance caused aldh1a3 to be permanently upregulated, you'll suffer chronic telogen effluvium (it's actually premature catagen in our case).
Iron overload also causes hairloss and autoimmune reactions (ATRA is immuno-modulating) are probably also a factor. Ppar y activation takes care of all these problems (theoretically).
Maybe dopamine also affects hair,but these dopamine problems are just the result of iron accumulation.
https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/8/2348
This is about the relationship between iron, oxidative stress and insulin resistance.