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Hi all,
Sorry in advance for my bad english as my mother tong is french :-).
I took accutane at 15/16 y old during 4 or 6 months i dont not remembrer exactly. Im now 31 y and have lot of your symptoms.
I tried lot of supplements/treatment,since 2015 (6 liver flushes, colon hydrotherapy and cleans, florinscan, probiotics, Candida Diet and supplements,parasit treatment, zinc, selenium, Cooper, calcium, magnesium, tyrosine, lysine, calcium d glucarate, Sillymarin for long Time, Arginine, choline, methyl support, b vitamines,threonine, kombucha, iron, cider vinegar, vitamine C, glutathion, astaxhantine, anastrazole,dr morse herbs for liver, pancreas tonic, etc etc etc)and consulted lot of specialistes and naturo.
Supplementsthat put inflammation down are very helpful for me but not the final solution.
Dr Morse Stomach and bowel (GR #1) is very helpful in my case and this was the best solution during a crisis.
I decided to consult a very good sport doctor in 2020 (this Guy is like a machine :-)) and talked about Accutane and my symptoms (inflammation, depression, digestion prob,pain in muscles and joints during sport,pain in the liver, bad sleep, erection problems, sick and bad digestion after taking drugs, food intolerance, ....).
He first said that accutanedestroyed probably a process in my liver and adrenals,and wedid a full full full blood testing and the doctor requested alsotesting of cortisol during 24h and my neurotransmitters (this was a very expensive analysis done in Bruxelles, Synlab).
Result and doctors recommandation : my liver is OK, but my adrenal glands and brain are totaly burned,need more cortisol, more testosterone, more vit D and more bileto digest food and fats for brain.
He requested to eat 1 yellowegg (cru, not cooked)every day asit contains... cholesterol! That will improve the production of vit D, cortisol, bile and testosterone !
He gave me also vit B9 (folic acid 0,4 per day ) for brain and homocystein (as it was too high). I take also vit C to support the bile production, and olive oil for my stomach and bowel inflammation. I take olive oil every morning on empty stomach, (1 cuillere a soupe) and eat Smoked salmon 1x week for my brain.
My digestion is now better,and I feel good, not stressed as before, no brain fogand more energy for working every day, more happy, no erection problem anymore (b9, olive oil and vit C support my erections). My erection problems were directly linked with brain/body/bowel/stomach inflammation.
I feel also that my liver is now more light than before.
It also noticed before 2020 that I only digested pasta if pasta contain eggs, same for pizzas, I always ask for an egg on it, otherwise i will be always sick. It is like mandatory to include yellow eggs in products that contain gluten/ramified cereals, for better digestion.
Vit b9 and olive oil directly improved my erections after 2 days, without problem during .... :-). That change a life !
B12 supplement put my erections down.
I can not explain why this treatment works for me but I had also lot of symptoms described in this forum. I will continue and hope that could change and recover my body of accutane damage for long term!
Hope this can help.
Take CARE guys!
Jim
Hi, would be interested in someone who has been dealing with this for longer and has done liver flushes if that helped them. I have done 2of them this year and it definitelyhelps with my dry joints,my joints feel better than in years, took accutane in 2016. Better hair also, but the fatigue, anxiety, depression and insomnia is still there. I believe there's some issue with nutrients absorbing from food, I eat healthy organic foods but don't seem to get enough nutrients from them. Using basic supplements really has a big effect on my health.
Low vitamin A seems to be the current solution but I can't live with those foods only. I have noticed that my body knows what it really wants and I crave eggs for instance.
To the 3 people who still visit forum.
The guy who once said its Candida is kinda right. Cant speak for everyone but what Ive found out recently is that there are stillparasites, bacteria and possibly viruses at play BUT at a cellular level, very hard though to clean the blood, cant just take supplements for this!
Doing regular parasite cleansing Im told will only help in the digestive track but not at a deeper cellular level...
So, how to clean at a deeper level?Im looking at Xenon and Ozone therapy along with seeing how my cells improve via blood tests as time goes on,this is all very Russian this type of therapybut after this Ive got nowhere else to go really. Im still doing some kinesiology to keep spine in best possible health too.
Only done Xenon so far, damn expensive at $550 for 10 min session, Ive done two with third coming up next week.Its been very good with my depression and improving aches and pains in joints. Dr wants 4-6 sessions before re testing and checking blood to see if there isan improvement- I hope to see less bacteria/parasites at a deeper cellular lvl.
FYI - you can look up both Xenon and Ozonetherapy on YouTube. As with any complementary treatment, there will be mixed reviews etc. Be good if anyone else has tried these before?
Also, besides ridding the parasites, the goal is toimprove red blood cells and boost the immune system. As we know,our immune system has been altered after Tane!
I believe the drug I still in us, and that as an acid, it causes chronic long term dehydration. Alkalize the body intracellularly with ionic trace minerals and you help to push it out and resolve the long term dehydration. Below is the current program I just started.
The biofeedback machine has been recommending calcium, and ancestral living bone seems like the best way to get the extra calcium. The horseradish root capsules are rich in glucosinolate, something exclusive to brassica veggies and I believe important for accutane detox.Nrf2, cytochrome p450 and glucuronidation are all increased by glucosinolates. Will post progress periodically.
Daily supplements
Horseradish root
Vitamin c gummies
Deva trace minerals
Ancestral living bone
Diet
Omnivore
Organic when possible
A quick update: i'm almost 2 months on finasteride now. You will probably call me crazy, but my hair made me really depressed and i needed the peace of mind knowing i do everything i can to keep my hair. As most of us accutane hairloss sufferers, my hairline stayed relatively fine (not perfect like before but not that bad) but the texture and quality went to shit. It looked and felt a like straw.
Now after almost 2 months, i can say my hair already looks much healthier and my horrible scalp itch went completely away. I also don't have any side effects yet, so i will continue. But what i wanted to say is that my libido is actually much higher since starting fin. Accutane never gave me erectile dysfunction but it did gave mebad mental sides and low (sexual)energy. I was already having almost all possible side effectsfin could give me (brain fog, depression,...) except erectile dysfunction. I figured out my hair is too important for me and i don't have much to lose, so i just decided to start treatment.
I expected the opposite to happen, but fin actually increased my libido. My lips are also much better since starting fin (softer and not dry anymore). This is probably because the testosterone that doesn't get converted to dht is now free testosterone. This can be converted toestradiol and i think this was way too low after accutane. Then i searched the effect of estradiol on male libido and i found it is actually very important (especially the mental part to get turned on).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26908066/
Too low estradiol can also cause dehydration. Estradiol is seen as a female hormone, but it's actually very important to have a good balance between T and estradiol. I don't know why accutane would cause elevated conversion of T to DHT, but the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme is needed for the biosynthesis of bile acid so maybe that can explain something? I'm not saying to start taking fin (especially if your hair is still fine), but i just wanted to let you guys know how it's going and maybe exchange some thoughts.
11 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:A quick update: i'm almost 2 months on finasteride now. You will probably call me crazy, but my hair made me really depressed and i needed the peace of mind knowing i do everything i can to keep my hair. As most of us accutane hairloss sufferers, my hairline stayed relatively fine (not perfect like before but not that bad) but the texture and quality went to shit. It looked and felt a like straw.
Now after almost 2 months, i can say my hair already looks much healthier and my horrible scalp itch went completely away. I also don't have any side effects yet, so i will continue. But what i wanted to say is that my libido is actually much higher since starting fin. Accutane never gave me erectile dysfunction but it did gave mebad mental sides and low (sexual)energy. I was already having almost all possible side effectsfin could give me (brain fog, depression,...) except erectile dysfunction. I figured out my hair is too important for me and i don't have much to lose, so i just decided to start treatment.
I expected the opposite to happen, but fin actually increased my libido. My lips are also much better since starting fin (softer and not dry anymore). This is probably because the testosterone that doesn't get converted to dht is now free testosterone. This can be converted toestradiol and i think this was way too low after accutane. Then i searched the effect of estradiol on male libido and i found it is actually very important (especially the mental part to get turned on).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26908066/
Too low estradiol can also cause dehydration. Estradiol is seen as a female hormone, but it's actually very important to have a good balance between T and estradiol. I don't know why accutane would cause elevated conversion of T to DHT, but the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme is needed for the biosynthesis of bile acid so maybe that can explain something? I'm not saying to start taking fin (especially if your hair is still fine), but i just wanted to let you guys know how it's going and maybe exchange some thoughts.
I have similar story with isotretinoin and going to finasteride with same mindset. I was wrong though, but our stories with finasteride are different. What you said about estradiol, people should test it beforehand. During the treatment I was getting headaches and my semen consistency changed to worse. I stopped it because it really didn't do anything to my hair and then my eyes went really dry, skin somewhat also and slight gyno.
14 hours ago, Pido said:I have similar story with isotretinoin and going to finasteride with same mindset. I was wrong though, but our stories with finasteride are different. What you said about estradiol, people should test it beforehand. During the treatment I was getting headaches and my semen consistency changed to worse. I stopped it because it really didn't do anything to my hair and then my eyes went really dry, skin somewhat also and slight gyno.
Maybe my T was low because of accutane (and low T also means low estradiol). To compensate, there could be higher conversion of T to DHT (and with low SHBG, this will fuck your hair). Fatty liver can cause low T and low SHBG.
I had bloodwork done a few months ago and my liver was fine but i don't know the fat percentage of my liver. I read many reports of people who develop nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) after taking accutane. And fin increases free T (and estradiol) and there are many reports of fin raising SHBG so maybe that's why my hair (and my libido) are better since starting fin. Many people who took accutane have very low SHBG and people who have post finasteride syndrome have very high SHBG so maybe it brings my SHBG to normal levels again.
But i didn't doa hormone test so i just assume my SHBG and estradiol were very low before starting fin. Low SHBG also means your liver just destroys a large amount of your T and there will be more converted to DHT. But if you had normal SHBG and estradiol and you take fin, maybe you're at higher risk of side effects. But i'm not experiencing any side effects so far and i'm actually feeling much better.
Surely theres a better and safer way of working on these hormone issue other than taking Fin??
My recent bloodwork also confirms low T but Im now getting other stuff tested too such as estradiol etc to work on a way to fix everything
Having said that, dont think Ill be taking Fin to try and fix things,Ill do other things first, working with Russian doctor at the moment
9 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Surely theres a better and safer way of working on these hormone issue other than taking Fin??
My recent bloodwork also confirms low T but Im now getting other stuff tested too such as estradiol etc to work on a way to fix everything
Having said that, dont think Ill be taking Fin to try and fix things,Ill do other things first, working with Russian doctor at the moment
If your hair is fine, i wouldn't take it. But i think all the people who took accutane and have low T probably just have very low SHBG and normal T. But if your SHBG is low, your liver destroys a large amount of your T and to compensate, there will be more converted to DHT. And DHT also blocks aromatase (so even less estradiol).
Low SHBG can be the result of fatty liver and/or insulin resistance. The TZD's i mentioned earlier can reduce the fat in your liver, improve insulin resistance and it raises SHBG as a result. So i still think these would be a solution, but you should check the fat % in your liver and if you have insulin resistance to make sure this is the problem. I think low SHBG is a big problem post accutane.
And there are many people who reportedraised SHBG on fin, but i wouldn't take it just for that. The real problem is probably inflamed adipose tissue caused by accutane (and this results in insulin resistance). Insulin resistance doens't mean being overweight. It can also mean to much adipose tissue is oxidated and you can't gain weight (or lose weight). And this is probably what accutane does. I think you can also have normal bloodsugar but still be insulin resistant locally (in your fat tissue).
Interesting all the things you mention
other things found on blood test were high cholesterol and even though I had to fast for that lipids test, my blood sugar was high so Im really pre diabetes but Im too worried about it at the moment, just trying to fix the hormone issues first and foremost
Also, I have had ultrasound before determining fatty liver in the past
As to my hair, Im not balding but its dry as fuck and lost its curl and I think grey before I should be.
23 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Interesting all the things you mention
other things found on blood test were high cholesterol and even though I had to fast for that lipids test, my blood sugar was high so Im really pre diabetes but Im too worried about it at the moment, just trying to fix the hormone issues first and foremost
Also, I have had ultrasound before determining fatty liver in the past
As to my hair, Im not balding but its dry as fuck and lost its curl and I think grey before I should be.
It's very possible accutane caused insulin resistance. This will effect all your hormone levels and your hair. You can't directly raiseyour SHBG. Your liver produces more SHBG if you reduce liver fat and improve insulin resistance. The post finasteride syndrome is probably too high SHBG. This limits the immediate action of all major steroid hormones before they are degraded. But we have probably the opposite problem.
My hair was also very dry and it became more wavy when it was straighter in the past. Now after almost 2 months on fin, it looks and feels better. Do you also have a scalp itch? Because i had a bad one and fin got rid off it completely.
https://amp.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/fvh5u8/discussion_shbg/
You should look at this reddit discussion. The first guy in the comments explains everything in detail.
How do you improve insulin issues? Besides weight loss
I mean I know Im slightly overweight, not majorly but as the doctor says, getting rid of the stomach fat will definitelyhelp to improve testosterone lvls.
Its probable that tane effects pancreas just as much as liver yeah?
39 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:How do you improve insulin issues? Besides weight loss
I mean I know Im slightly overweight, not majorly but as the doctor says, getting rid of the stomach fat will definitelyhelp to improve testosterone lvls.
Its probable that tane effects pancreas just as much as liver yeah?
A healthy lifestyle is important and fasting may help short-term, but it won't be a longterm solution. And losing stomach fat will help but it may be really hard after accutane to lose it. Accutane did have an effect on adipose tissue and energy expenditure.
I believe TZD's are a possible solution for our very specific problem. These also lower stomach fat.
It increases energy expenditure and increases browning in adipose tissue (and improve insulin resistance).
There are also many people post-accutane who reported a bad copper/zinc ratio (too much copper). TZD's also take care of this problem.
36 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:How do you improve insulin issues? Besides weight loss
I mean I know Im slightly overweight, not majorly but as the doctor says, getting rid of the stomach fat will definitelyhelp to improve testosterone lvls.
Its probable that tane effects pancreas just as much as liver yeah?
Also look into Keto, serious. It is used to treat metabolic syndrome, non alcoholic fatty liver and insuline resistance.
9 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:A healthy lifestyle is important and fasting may help short-term, but it won't be a longterm solution. And losing stomach fat will help but it may be really hard after accutane to lose it. Accutane did have an effect on adipose tissue and energy expenditure.
I believe TZD's are a possible solution for our very specific problem. These also lower stomach fat.
It increases energy expenditure and increases browning in adipose tissue (and improve insulin resistance).
There are also many people post-accutane who reported a bad copper/zinc ratio (too much copper). TZD's also take care of this problem.
Do you need to be on them for life?
or will they fix the problem and thats that problem fixed?
Ive had high copper diagnosed years ago in a test
8 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Do you need to be on them for life?
or will they fix the problem and thats that problem fixed?
Ive had high copper diagnosed years ago in a test
If you have diabetes, it's for life. For us, i think we only need 6 months - 1 year. If the fat % in the liver is back to normal and the fat tissue is brown (accutane causedbeiging of fat tissue)and sensitive to insulin. That would in theory be enough. And the copper storages would also be depleted (the amount of available copper in the mitochondria). Oxidative stress is basically what caused all accutane problems. In response to oxidative stress, more copper is needed in the mitochondria.
1 hour ago, Lifesuckshard said:If you have diabetes, it's for life. For us, i think we only need 6 months - 1 year. If the fat % in the liver is back to normal and the fat tissue is brown (accutane causedbeiging of fat tissue)and sensitive to insulin. That would in theory be enough. And the copper storages would also be depleted (the amount of available copper in the mitochondria). Oxidative stress is basically what caused all accutane problems. In response to oxidative stress, more copper is needed in the mitochondria.
Ok, thats one problem, what about the other issues?
Most would have testosterone issues more sothan insulin issues post tane correct?
I know theres a link between low testosterone and cholesterol- I have both but believe fixing test will ultimately improve cholesterol
I still have reflux issues too which Im toldis actually due to low stomach acid believe it or not over too much stomach acid
For years Im trying to fix issues without taking prescription drugs but as time goes on, all the alternative treatments just dont seem to work for and believe me Ive put a lot of time and effort in to trying them as have many others!!
Ill raise TZD with my doctor and see what he says about them
thanks for the feedback
35 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Ok, thats one problem, what about the other issues?
Most would have testosterone issues more sothan insulin issues post tane correct?
I know theres a link between low testosterone and cholesterol- I have both but believe fixing test will ultimately improve cholesterol
I still have reflux issues too which Im toldis actually due to low stomach acid believe it or not over too much stomach acid
For years Im trying to fix issues without taking prescription drugs but as time goes on, all the alternative treatments just dont seem to work for and believe me Ive put a lot of time and effort in to trying them as have many others!!
Ill raise TZD with my doctor and see what he says about them
thanks for the feedback
For the testosterone issues, if you haven't checked your SHBG yet you should do this. If it's low, that means inflammation (and chronic inflammation causes insulin resistance). Low SHBG means your sex hormones are rapidly destroyed by the liver, even if testosterone production is normal. And low T could cause higher cholesterol, but cholesterol is also needed to produce T so it's a bit complicated. I would test SHBG because this can tell you a lot.
1 hour ago, Lifesuckshard said:For the testosterone issues, if you haven't checked your SHBG yet you should do this. If it's low, that means inflammation (and chronic inflammation causes insulin resistance). Low SHBG means your sex hormones are rapidly destroyed by the liver, even if testosterone production is normal. And low T could cause higher cholesterol, but cholesterol is also needed to produce T so it's a bit complicated. I would test SHBG because this can tell you a lot.
Ok, and the basic rule of thumb for treating low SHBG is what??
Does it differ much to how you would treat low testosterone for example?
thx again, your feedback is very helpful and my next blood test is this week where I plan to ask for all the other things that were missed on first test. This will assist my doctor inhelping make the next decisions around treatment
I also have two more Xenon treatments before we look closer at blood again - poor insulin would explain poor red blood cells on last blood test looked at under the microscope. And poor red blood cells etc plays into immune system issues
See how it goes on and on and on. Im looking for the key thing here to re stack the dominoes so to speak.....try and get some energy and vitality back - Im extremely exhausted
2 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Ok, and the basic rule of thumb for treating low SHBG is what??
Does it differ much to how you would treat low testosterone for example?
thx again, your feedback is very helpful and my next blood test is this week where I plan to ask for all the other things that were missed on first test. This will assist my doctor inhelping make the next decisions around treatment
I also have two more Xenon treatments before we look closer at blood again - poor insulin would explain poor red blood cells on last blood test looked at under the microscope. And poor red blood cells etc plays into immune system issues
See how it goes on and on and on. Im looking for the key thing here to re stack the dominoes so to speak.....try and get some energy and vitality back - Im extremely exhausted
SHBG is made by the liver. There is no way to raise or lower it directly. If your liver is in bad condition (fatty liver), SHBG will go down. Insulin resistance also causes low SHBG. Estradiol and improving insulin sensitivity will make your liver produce more SHBG. So low SHBG is just the result of inflammation (and insulin resistance). I think most of us have normal testosterone production but it just gets destroyed rapidly by the liver because it isn't bound by SHBG, so you will experience low T symptons. TZD's are known to reduce inflammation and liver fat and it raises SHBG as a result. That's why TRT will probably not work for us.
At 44 I've had some gray in the hair and beard long before I should. Sure would be nice if the problems could be solved naturally but I've given up on the 100% natural approach and will be obtaining a generic Cialis Rx within the coming week hopefully.
Probably the best natural substance I've ever used is raw sauerkraut juice, flavored with garlic and dill. Raw sauerkraut juice is loaded with all kinds of excellent nutrition, including glucosinolates which are exclusive to the brassica family. It is excellent for gut brain and liver health. I got mine at a local health food store. I think kraut juice is available on amazon also. Will keep the board posted on the generic Cialis regimen. Take care.
6 hours ago, Lifesuckshard said:SHBG is made by the liver. There is no way to raise or lower it directly. If your liver is in bad condition (fatty liver), SHBG will go down. Insulin resistance also causes low SHBG. Estradiol and improving insulin sensitivity will make your liver produce more SHBG. So low SHBG is just the result of inflammation (and insulin resistance). I think most of us have normal testosterone production but it just gets destroyed rapidly by the liver because it isn't bound by SHBG, so you will experience low T symptons. TZD's are known to reduce inflammation and liver fat and it raises SHBG as a result. That's why TRT will probably not work for us.
thanks again - really good info and appreciate being educated on hormone production
What areyour thoughts on Leydig Cell death? Mentioned by someone on one of the previous pages. If theres any truth to it, it sounds pretty dire if true yeah?
Brassicas are good at removing toxins from the cell nucleus that induce cell death. They do this important job by inducing nrf2.
The problem with brassicas for accutane people is the fiber content. Brassica fiber rips our sensitive guts to shreds. That's where sauerkraut juice comes into play. All the helpful nrf2 action without the harmful fiber.