Interesting, but also quite depressing to hear. Reports that certain things work for people, while others are unaffected is the most difficult thing to understand. For me, TUDCA was the only thing that helped me with raising Vitamin D levels. And I took a lot of Vitamin D because way back in 2018 I tried Coimbra protocol. I also had to cycle it, but for me the cycle was longer, the effects started to wear off after about two months. I cycled EFA's too, but it was before all of the studies I read, so I will try it again on much higher dosage. Probably will report back in half a year, with an updated theory and some bloodwork.

35 minutes ago, Kunus999 said:

Interesting, but also quite depressing to hear. Reports that certain things work for people, while others are unaffected is the most difficult thing to understand. For me, TUDCA was the only thing that helped me with raising Vitamin D levels. And I took a lot of Vitamin D because way back in 2018 I tried Coimbra protocol. I also had to cycle it, but for me the cycle was longer, the effects started to wear off after about two months. I cycled EFA's too, but it was before all of the studies I read, so I will try it again on much higher dosage. Probably will report back in half a year, with an updated theory and some bloodwork.

Im a big fan of tudca, and probably will buy some more in the future.

And for the EFA and Choline, i need some more convidence that it will help, so i can push through the darking periods.
personally at this moment, my goal is to help my brains a bit more, get rid of the midly depressive feelings. Enjoy gaming again, enjoy movies, enjoyoutside. So the combo is helping me for this. Is it just replacement therapy? I dont know, at least it give me energy to be active on the forums again, and enjoy life a better. So im happy.

So for now i will await your results, if you see some progress i will delve into that route again and follow you on your journey.

i also did alot of nootropics. Piracetam/Noopept/Aniracetam. But they are all too specific, with that i mean its maybe adressing 2/100 of the whole accutane complex. So yeah, its fun, but nowhere near a cure.

RSO maybe helped, it is said to be a stem cell stimulator. Like i said, when its wearing off (not feeling high, but its still active) you feel completely your old self again. And then you sleep 1 day, you wake up with zero energy.

So for now i will stick with the combo, i feel great at work again, i enjoy the sun, i feel relaxed. I will follow your route, and hope it bring you and us some progress intaming this beast of a drug.

Good luck, and I sincerely hope you see progress, then i will join you!

EDIT: did you get your hands on UDCA? Without the taurine? They say its more expensive but better results. I dont want to buy for 10000 euros from a chinese factory.

EDIT2: there were some years after accutanei could not gain Any weight or muscle, Now im a 110 kg big fat guy.

Guys, we gotta chill. Keep in mind that we all share the same problem basically. So lets not drain our energy by insulting ourselves. Instead lets stay curious what others have tried and how it did work out. As youve said its a highly complex problem so trying out many possible solutions seems reasonable.

I know how much it sucks to face the sides, got so many of them. What I think is, we should make this movement bigger. Start making insta posts. Making people aware what we are facing. Why we are facing it. Maybe others will respond who experience the same or experienced the same. Maybe other people will understand our pain and we can get smth rolling. Just an idea. Dont underestimate social media impact ...

1 hour ago, Doctorcolumbus said:

EDIT: did you get your hands on UDCA? Without the taurine? They say its more expensive but better results. I dont want to buy for 10000 euros from a chinese factory.

 

EDIT2: there were some years after accutanei could not gain Any weight or muscle, Now im a 110 kg big fat guy.

I've read about UDCA a lot, but as far as I know, it's prescribed for people with serious cholestasis issues. And I do not belive that Accutane users deal with cholestasis. Definetly it might be bad bile composition (due to problems I mentioned in earlier posts and studies), but I really doubt it's like a physical bile duct obstruction. I tried taurine and MSM which helped while I was on it, but when I ran off supply the cloggines after fat-rich meal came back.

45 minutes ago, Kunus999 said:

I've read about UDCA a lot, but as far as I know, it's prescribed for people with serious cholestasis issues. And I do not belive that Accutane users deal with cholestasis. Definetly it might be bad bile composition (due to problems I mentioned in earlier posts and studies), but I really doubt it's like a physical bile duct obstruction. I tried taurine and MSM which helped while I was on it, but when I ran off supply the cloggines after fat-rich meal came back.

So whats your plan of attack?

whats your stack going to be like?

Tudca

Efa

Choline

My machine has shown cholestasis quite often. It's also listed udca in the recomended pharmaceuticals section from time to time. It doesn't list udca nearly as often as it lists gotu kola. I've tried tudca and all it did was wipe out my brain cholesterol levels and give me rls. Gotu kola has been mentioned in at least one article as being able to regenerate damaged bile ducts. Gotu kola has also been shown to increase systemic cholesterol synthesis, which is what I need. I've found that the best solution for rls is tuna salad or shrimp, likely due to brain dha replenishment from the seafood. Dha is one of the ligands for rxr and rar.

Gotu kola has drastically reduced my appetite, which is a good thing as I am overweight up front.

I am thinking about starting a methionine-inositol-choline stack for a month or maybe even longer depending on results I get. Then I will add TUDCA and large amount of EPA+DHA. I still suffer from mucocutaneous side effects so it's gonna be very easy to notice even the slightest improvements in terms of dry skin or hair. Floating stools, pale stools and occasionalsteatorrhea arepretty commongastrointestinal symptomsfor me, so again - I should notice improvements pretty fast. I wil ltry to experiment with dosages to force (possibly positive) symptoms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5996413/

My past experiments with taurine and sulhpur-rich diet were positive, although did not last long aftercessation of supplements. Seems like you can temporairly impact how liver works, but the changes made to gene expression by isotretinoin, might be just too much forthe supplements.

Of course I will keep my diet clean as possible, around 2500-2700kcl (I'm 25yo 77kg).

There are still things that I completly do not understand about how this drug works, even after so much time spent on learing it's mechanism. I took it for 11 months, my total cummulative dosage was like 230-250mg/kg and I have 0 problems with testosterone levels/erections etc. Yet my skin is dry as bone, and even after 4 years I am still losing hair body wise. And it's not like I am going more and more bald, my hair is as thin as it was 4 years ago, even when I'm losing handfull of hair daily.Also the hair on my head and body is very dull and damaged, even my pubic hair thinned in a diffuse pattern. Also - it looks like my hair is damaged on a cellular level. Some of the pubic hair are weirdly long with noticable patterns of getting thin, then again looking normal. It honestly almost looks the whole mechanism of cell apoptosis and differentiation is completely messed up (which is I belive, the long term mechanism of action of this drug, and the explaination behind why the acne doesn't come back for some people). And the last interesting thing is I have two symmetrical toenails that haveBeau lines, and those nails do not grow. Like 4 years have passed and those 2 nails did not grow an inch.

Gotu kola was giving me the very best brain health benefits I've ever experienced in my life, but it feels as though my liver is jamming up. Ive moved to cordyceps, cabbage juice and defatted beef liver. Frustrating? Sure. I refuse to give up though. will report later.

6 hours ago, Kunus999 said:

I am thinking about starting a methionine-inositol-choline stack for a month or maybe even longer depending on results I get. Then I will add TUDCA and large amount of EPA+DHA. I still suffer from mucocutaneous side effects so it's gonna be very easy to notice even the slightest improvements in terms of dry skin or hair. Floating stools, pale stools and occasionalsteatorrhea arepretty commongastrointestinal symptomsfor me, so again - I should notice improvements pretty fast. I wil ltry to experiment with dosages to force (possibly positive) symptoms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5996413/

My past experiments with taurine and sulhpur-rich diet were positive, although did not last long aftercessation of supplements. Seems like you can temporairly impact how liver works, but the changes made to gene expression by isotretinoin, might be just too much forthe supplements.

Of course I will keep my diet clean as possible, around 2500-2700kcl (I'm 25yo 77kg).

There are still things that I completly do not understand about how this drug works, even after so much time spent on learing it's mechanism. I took it for 11 months, my total cummulative dosage was like 230-250mg/kg and I have 0 problems with testosterone levels/erections etc. Yet my skin is dry as bone, and even after 4 years I am still losing hair body wise. And it's not like I am going more and more bald, my hair is as thin as it was 4 years ago, even when I'm losing handfull of hair daily.Also the hair on my head and body is very dull and damaged, even my pubic hair thinned in a diffuse pattern. Also - it looks like my hair is damaged on a cellular level. Some of the pubic hair are weirdly long with noticable patterns of getting thin, then again looking normal. It honestly almost looks the whole mechanism of cell apoptosis and differentiation is completely messed up (which is I belive, the long term mechanism of action of this drug, and the explaination behind why the acne doesn't come back for some people). And the last interesting thing is I have two symmetrical toenails that haveBeau lines, and those nails do not grow. Like 4 years have passed and those 2 nails did not grow an inch.

 

Good luck! You got your shit sorted out, you can do this.

@Kunus999 what are your thoughts on Anti A diet?

16 hours ago, Aaron76 said:

Gotu kola was giving me the very best brain health benefits I've ever experienced in my life, but it feels as though my liver is jamming up. Ive moved to cordyceps, cabbage juice and defatted beef liver. Frustrating? Sure. I refuse to give up though. will report later.

So youve stopped taking gotu kola :O? How does your liver feel? Maybe your dosage was too high (6 capsules per day is a lot more than recommended by packaging)?

On 4/26/2020 at 2:14 PM, Calcified said:

@Kunus999 what are your thoughts on Anti A diet?

This is tricky because of people reporting very different results from the anti A diet. I also do not think that we are overburdened with excess retinoic acid or Vitamin A. It's rather the signalling issue that causes these different reactions.

I do not get any adverse reactions after consuming Vitamin A in any form (beta caroten,retinyl palmitate, and possible other forms). If there are people that get good reactions from anti A diet I belive it's because their body just doesn't know with the vitamin, and goes panic mode. But I'm not sure if that panic mode is good for the body (we are indeed overburdened with some kind of Vitamin A) or it's just a reaction that the body used to protect us from synthethic Vitamin A, like Accutane is (and that reaction did not down-regaulte after cessation of the drug).

So in this case, I belive that doing what is best for your body, is the best thing to do. Also the biggest problem in this case is consistency and time of this "treatment". How long you are going to do the anti Vitamin A? How long till you notice long-term results? Does it need to be a life-long treatment? Unfortunetely all of it it's just guessing. There might be people that won't get any benefits, and probably people that get cured of symptoms completely.

For now I focused on lipid metabolism path, because my hypothesis is that this is like the biggest field of action of Isotretinoin. Recent study from 2020 I found:

-3 - Omega 3

Quote

The other way how PUFAs can regulate gene expression includes activation of transcription factors via peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs). PPARs are present as three types: PPAR-, PPAR-/, and PPAR- with its three isoforms: 1, 2, 3. They are the members of the nuclear receptor family with tissue-specific expression and ligand-specific activation which pairs with the retinoic acid X receptor (RXR) and bind to specific regions on the DNA of target genes to achieve their comprehensive actionsincreasing transcription of specific genes and decreasing transcription of others involved in the regulation of cellular differentiation, development, carbohydrate, lipid and protein metabolism, and tumorigenesis.

Such small information can provide the simplifed mechanism of action of Isotretinoin I already mentioned, which is inducing cascade of events in various genes/enzymes, therefore explaining why certain people need more/less of the drug to get good or bad effects (more or less "sensitive" genes). The biggest problem is that affected enzymes and genes further interfere with another genes and enzymes, which then again causes different cascade of events.Unfortunetely like someone said 300 pages ago, it's a nuclear bomb for acne treatment.

Please, also remember is that I am not implying that PUFAs are the cure. I just want to attract attention to these mechanisms, since understanding them might be crucial to understanding what Isotreitoin affects the most.

@Kunus999thanks for your input, I think your thoughts regarding signalling is highly possible.

I don't get adverse reactions from vitamin A either but what it's doing now seems to be the unknown.

Some people are ok then 1-2 years after treatment they start having issues, any theories on that? Could the mini recovery have something to do with higher retinol stores somewhere in the body when accutane treatment has just finished?

21 hours ago, eliburgi said:

So youve stopped taking gotu kola :O? How does your liver feel? Maybe your dosage was too high (6 capsules per day is a lot more than recommended by packaging)?

I've discontinued gotu kola due to liver issues. 4 capsules per day was not above recomended dosage.

I arrived at gotu kola by observing the machines brain supplement recommendations. When I observe the liver, some of the the machines top recommended foods include beef liver, cabbage, cauliflower, brussel sprouts.

Retinol from beef liver is no good. Awful taste and harmful fiber from crucifers is no good. But what if I use defatted beef liver, which is retinol free, and what if I use cabbage juice packs, which eliminates the harmful fiber? That's what I'm doing, combined with cordyceps and plenty of tuna and or shrimp for brain dha replenishment. So far so good. Will post more updates later.

For me, accutane is blocking efa from reaching their rxr and rar receptor targets. For my specific body, supplementing with excessive amounts of efa won't solve my problem. It will only create more oxidative stress. Glucosinolates from cabbage juice activate nrf2, cytochrome p450, and glucuronidation enzymes, helping to draw accutane out of the cell, into the blood, and into the toilet. Defatted beef liver provides the heme iron necessary to sustain heme based cytochrome p450 activity.

Shrimp, tuna, salmon, mackerel, sardines, and other healthy, wholesome seafoods replenish the much needed dha, which is an rxr and rar ligand.

Ps--when I consume synthetic isolates such as sulforaphane, fish oil, iron tablets, choline, etc, they all do me more harm than good. When I consume the whole foods above, so far I'm experiencing no negative effects.

3 hours ago, Aaron76 said:

For me, accutane is blocking efa from reaching their rxr and rar receptor targets. For my specific body, supplementing with excessive amounts of efa won't solve my problem. It will only create more oxidative stress. Glucosinolates from cabbage juice activate nrf2, cytochrome p450, and glucuronidation enzymes, helping to draw accutane out of the cell, into the blood, and into the toilet. Defatted beef liver provides the heme iron necessary to sustain heme based cytochrome p450 activity.

Shrimp, tuna, salmon, mackerel, sardines, and other healthy, wholesome seafoods replenish the much needed dha, which is an rxr and rar ligand.

Ps--when I consume synthetic isolates such as sulforaphane, fish oil, iron tablets, choline, etc, they all do me more harm than good. When I consume the whole foods above, so far I'm experiencing no negative effects.

Didnt you say earlier that Gotu Kola was a whole food, just in the form of a supplement? Yet you had issues with that?

For a layperson, can you explain how biofeedback works? I honestly have no idea but it sounds kinda BS if a machine can tell you specifically what foods will help or hinder your liver, etc.

1 minute ago, IndigoRushReturns said:

Didnt you say earlier that Gotu Kola was a whole food, just in the form of a supplement? Yet you had issues with that?

For a layperson, can you explain how biofeedback works? I honestly have no idea but it sounds kinda BS if a machine can tell you specifically what foods will help or hinder your liver, etc.

Sup Indigo? How you doing these days?

First time on here in a couple of years, and interesting to see that the current topics are right along my current lines of thinking!

My bile flow issues have got worse over the years, and its now at the point where I cant tolerate fat at all.

Things which have helped are, no.1 TUDCA (Ive been taking this on and off for years, and now pretty much have to take it with every meal), UDCA (I actually find this less effective that TUDCA. Taking alongside Taurine doesnt make much difference), Tribulus (very bitter herb - if you split a capsule and take some of the powder or make some tea with it it stimulates the gallbladder).

Current thoughts are that I need to get more EFAs, however most involve eating fatty fish which I just cant tolerate now - any fat or oil gives me bad heart palpations and my liver/GB feels like it goes solid.

One thing I eat daily is spinach as this is a vegan source of EFAs. It only contains ALA, however the body does convert into smaller amounts of other fatty acids

Quote

ALA is not as active in the body and must be converted to two other forms of omega-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) to bestow the same health benefits (4

Trusted Source

).

Unfortunately, your bodys ability to convert ALA is limited. Only about 5% of ALA is converted to EPA, while less than 0.5% is converted to DHA (5

Trusted Source

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-plant-sources-of-omega-3s

This actually reminds me of a couple finasteride recoveries where the guys ate ONLY spinach. Makes me wonder if they were replenishing EFA's without using any up.

Besides a lack of EFA's (maybe due to poor absorbtion, and a sort of negative feedback loop) there are other angles for these bile flow issues too;

- Impaired methylation resulting in thick bile

- excess estrogen/cortisol meaning the liver runs out of methyl groups (could be why some have benefited from SAMe?)

Quote

So the way we prevent this is through optimizing methylation by increasing taurine, phosphatidylcholine, folate, B12, and TMG. Taurine is produced by the methyl cycle, and when taurine is given to rats with gallbladder sludge, their bile gets slippery again and rescues their liver from damage.⁵ The methylation genes PEMT and BHMT are found in the liver and they make choline phospholipids which are necessary to keep the bile flowing.⁶ Choline protects the liver and gallbladder against damage from the detergent action of bile and it promotes movement of cholesterol into the bile so it can be removed from the body.^7,8,9 When we run out of choline, cholesterol and fat literally get stuck in our liver and muscles, leading to fatty liver disease and muscle damage.¹⁰

Both the above discussed in this article

https://www.beyondmthfr.com/mthfr-digestion-methylation-connection-gallbladder-function/

One more angle could be a lack of active B12 (a lot of people have very high levels in blood, as they potentially cannot utilise it)

My current plan is to continue eating a diet of steamed veg with peas of lentils for protein (so pretty much as fat free as you can get), includes tons of steamed spinach for EFA's, and then introduce Tuna (which is a good source of choline andmethionine, as well as EFA's). Continue with TUDCA and maybe add some taurine.

1 minute ago, Doctorcolumbus said:

Sup Indigo? How you doing these days?

Hello mate.

Thanks for asking...

Ivehada bit of an emotionalcrash this weekend, where Ive been focusing on all this stuff again. Most of the time, Ive lived with all the side effects; always struggling but I guess I number myself to the pain of the situation.

Every now and then, though, I get deeply angry about what happened to us. I realise all the time (and money) Ive spent trying to fix myself has been hopeless, and start wishing I never took this drug (not that I ever stopped wishing that). I wish after 14 years, Id found something to help me. A while back, I basically gave up. Ive not taken supplements in years, after spending thousands and taking a dozen at once because the reviews were good.My diet has been pretty shit... I was vegan for four years (for ethical reasons) and when that made my digestion and other problems worse, I kind of thought ... fuck it. Who cares about trying anymore? Where has that got me? Nothing works so Ill just stop trying.

But there is no use in that mentality, as there is no way ofaccepting our lot if its this. So while I dont think its good for me to get heavily involved in this forum again (I get a bit obsessive and get very down when another idea fails) and while I worry we will never be able to fix the damage, its too painful to live without hope. Aaron makes some sense in saying whole foods and maybe herbs are a better way of experimenting than taking isolated supplements.

Ive been addicted to junk food for a while now. Its one of the only things I feel I can turn to when Im totally depressed (as I dont smoke, drink or dodrugs). But thats caught up with me... all my fat goes straight to my stomach and I feel like my chest is a bit man-booby at the moment. Its likely to do with having hormonal issues and low testosterone, but the lack of discipline is at least partly to blame.

Ultimately, Ive not been doing very well. I work full time and try to live normally, but my chronic fatigue, dry eyes/floaters,non-existentsex drive, terrible constipation and bloating really detract from me being able to focus on my career or any actual goals. Id settle for being semi-functional at this point, and maybe that means shifting what I eat massively. As, I dont know about you guys, but it seems I cant tolerate shit anymore... the constant bloated feeling is rank.

A question for all... do you experience a numb penis/frequent urination/a tight pelvic floor? I think that may be the reason Im constipated... the muscles arent able to relax. Its got worse over time... I feel a heavy sensation when Im stood up or walking. When I cant shit, my dick and balls become very tight and tense as if theyre in a vice.

Chronic stress may have played a part here, but some people who take Accutane, Finasteride or SSRIs develop pelvic floor problems. I shouldnt even know what a pelvic floor is!

2 minutes ago, tanedout said:

First time on here in a couple of years, and interesting to see that the current topics are right along my current lines of thinking!

My bile flow issues have got worse over the years, and its now at the point where I cant tolerate fat at all.

Things which have helped are, no.1 TUDCA (Ive been taking this on and off for years, and now pretty much have to take it with every meal), UDCA (I actually find this less effective that TUDCA. Taking alongside Taurine doesnt make much difference), Tribulus (very bitter herb - if you split a capsule and take some of the powder or make some tea with it it stimulates the gallbladder).

Current thoughts are that I need to get more EFAs, however most involve eating fatty fish which I just cant tolerate now - any fat or oil gives me bad heart palpations and my liver/GB feels like it goes solid.

One thing I eat daily is spinach as this is a vegan source of EFAs. It only contains ALA, however the body does convert into smaller amounts of other fatty acids

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-plant-sources-of-omega-3s

 

This actually reminds me of a couple finasteride recoveries where the guys ate ONLY spinach. Makes me wonder if they were replenishing EFA's without using any up.

 

Besides a lack of EFA's (maybe due to poor absorbtion, and a sort of negative feedback loop) there are other angles too;

- Impaired methylation resulting in thick bile

- excess estrogen/cortisol meaning the liver runs out of methyl groups (could be why some have benefited from SAMe?)

Both the above discussed in this article

https://www.beyondmthfr.com/mthfr-digestion-methylation-connection-gallbladder-function/

One more angle could be a lack of active B12 (a lot of people have very high levels in blood, as they potentially cannot utilise it)

 

My current plan is to continue eating a diet of steamed veg with peas of lentils for protein (so pretty much as fat free as you can get), includes tons of steamed spinach for EFA's, and then introduce Tuna (which is a good source of choline andmethionine, as well as EFA's). Continue with TUDCA and maybe add some taurine.

 

 

 

I recognise your username...

I personally cant take TUDCA, because its sourced from Bears who are abused their whole lives in cages in China. I get desperate measures though. Like you, my ability to handle fat seems to have got worse withtime. Ive been having pizza and shitty food like that for a while, but its clear that something like cheese isnt doing me any favours. Clearly, avoiding fat would lead to deficiencies, but Ive tried taking betaine HCL and other digestive aids before... didnt seem to make a difference. Its weird that people who get long term side effects from a short course would develop such deep rooted issues in a short amount of time.

There are many theories out there, but the digestive system is clearly a bigpart of the mystery.

9 minutes ago, IndigoRushReturns said:

I personally cant take TUDCA, because its sourced from Bears who are abused their whole lives in cages in China. I get desperate measures though. Like you, my ability to handle fat seems to have got worse withtime. Ive been having pizza and shitty food like that for a while, but its clear that something like cheese isnt doing me any favours. Clearly, avoiding fat would lead to deficiencies, but Ive tried taking betaine HCL and other digestive aids before... didnt seem to make a difference. Its weird that people who get long term side effects from a short course would develop such deep rooted issues in a short amount of time.

There are many theories out there, but the digestive system is clearly a bigpart of the mystery.

TUDCA is synthetic, it's not sourced from animal bile. It's just a bile salt

29 minutes ago, IndigoRushReturns said:

Didnt you say earlier that Gotu Kola was a whole food, just in the form of a supplement? Yet you had issues with that?

For a layperson, can you explain how biofeedback works? I honestly have no idea but it sounds kinda BS if a machine can tell you specifically what foods will help or hinder your liver, etc.

Gotu kola is a leafy green whole food known primarily for brain health. It has cytochrome p450 activity. I believe it downregulates cyp450, which is likely why I started having issues with it.

Biofeedback machines derive info about the body by attaching to various body parts. With my medicomat machine, it's essentially a headset with a chord connected to the machine, which is connected to my laptop. It utilizes electromagnetic frequencies to measure brain activity and all of the endogenous biofeedback pathways that exist between mind and body. You can observe virtually any organ or tissue in the human body.

Every food has a frequency. Every organ has a frequency. every tissue has frequency. Every species of parasite has a frequency. Heavy metals have a frequency. The machine measures the frequencies in the body and computes which food or supplement solutions are best based on corresponding frequencies. I wholeheartedly believe in it. It's simply a matter of knowing how best to use it. Someone who is new to biofeedback will require lots of practice to fully master the machine and it's abilities.

Cruciferous veggies are some of the healthiest foods on the planet, and they are a food group that I've largely avoided pretty much my entire life due to taste, and after accutane, due to my guts inability to tolerate the soluble fiber. Cabbage juice solves this problem. Also, lots of naturopathic practitioners swear by the concept of like heals like, ie consume the liver of a healthy cow if your own liver is in trouble. For accutane people, that means cutting out the liver fat to remove the retinol.

14 minutes ago, tanedout said:

TUDCA is synthetic, it's not sourced from animal bile. It's just a bile salt

I cant find anything concrete online, but hope you are right.

1 minute ago, Aaron76 said:

Gotu kola is a leafy green whole food known primarily for brain health. It has cytochrome p450 activity. I believe it downregulates cyp450, which is likely why I started having issues with it.

Biofeedback machines derive info about the body by attaching to various body parts. With my medicomat machine, it's essentially a headset with a chord connected to the machine, which is connected to my laptop. It utilizes electromagnetic frequencies to measure brain activity and all of the endogenous biofeedback pathways that exist between mind and body. You can observe virtually any organ or tissue in the human body.

Every food has a frequency. Every organ has a frequency. every tissue has frequency. Every species of parasite has a frequency. Heavy metals have a frequency. The machine measures the frequencies in the body and computes which food or supplement solutions are best based on corresponding frequencies. I wholeheartedly believe in it. It's simply a matter of knowing how best to use it. Someone who is new to biofeedback will require lots of practice to fully master the machine and it's abilities.

Cruciferous veggies are some of the healthiest foods on the planet, and they are a food group that I've largely avoided pretty much my entire life due to taste, and after accutane, due to my guts inability to tolerate the soluble fiber. Cabbage juice solves this problem. Also, lots of naturopathic practitioners swear by the concept of like heals like, ie consume the liver of a healthy cow if your own liver is in trouble. For accutane people, that means cutting out the liver fat to remove the retinol.

Thanks for the reply. As Ive not been around here in a while, do you mind summarising when you took Accutane, how long youve been dealing with the side effects, and what side effects you are trying to overcome?

I took accutane late 1991 early 1992 at the age of 15. Lots of morning vomiting the year or two after accutane. Can recall depression setting in my sophomore year of high school. Athletically I was never the same. Severe anxiety shortly after high school. Ibs-d post high school. All kinds of antidepressants that didn't do a lick of good. The disease started out being more mental and gradually shifted to being more physical.

Ibs, ed, cfs, joints, insomnia. I woke up feeling better this morning than I was feeling Sunday morning. I'm repeating the program tonight. 6 Defatted beef liver tabs, a cabbage juice pack, 3 cordyceps capsules. I ate some albacore tuna salad earlier today, so hopefully that'll be enough dha intake to ensure good sleep tonight. If I experience any insomnia tonight, I will do another pouch of tuna salad.

Accutane has been shown to decrease b12 and folate. Beef liver is an excellent source of b12 and folate, as well as choline. And when you remove the fat, you remove the problematic retinol. The concept of like heals like makes perfect sense to me, and doing the cabbage juice, when I've avoided crucifers all my life, makes sense to me as well.

God bless you indigo for all the good work you've done on YouTube and with the ebook. I suspect that before the year is up, instead of posting accutane warnings you'll instead be posting a video of recovery success.

2 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:

I took accutane late 1991 early 1992 at the age of 15. Lots of morning vomiting the year or two after accutane. Can recall depression setting in my sophomore year of high school. Athletically I was never the same. Severe anxiety shortly after high school. Ibs-d post high school. All kinds of antidepressants that didn't do a lick of good. The disease started out being more mental and gradually shifted to being more physical.

Ibs, ed, cfs, joints, insomnia. I woke up feeling better this morning than I was feeling Sunday morning. I'm repeating the program tonight. 6 Defatted beef liver tabs, a cabbage juice pack, 3 cordyceps capsules. I ate some albacore tuna salad earlier today, so hopefully that'll be enough dha intake to ensure good sleep tonight. If I experience any insomnia tonight, I will do another pouch of tuna salad.

Accutane has been shown to decrease b12 and folate. Beef liver is an excellent source of b12 and folate, as well as choline. And when you remove the fat, you remove the problematic retinol. The concept of like heals like makes perfect sense to me, and doing the cabbage juice, when I've avoided crucifers all my life, makes sense to me as well.

God bless you indigo for all the good work you've done on YouTube and with the ebook. I suspect that before the year is up, instead of posting accutane warnings you'll instead be posting a video of recovery success.

Wow... I thought Id taken it a long time ago. I have to say I admire your optimism, even while I remain afraid the darkness will never lift.

I admire everyone here who is still fighting each day and looking for a way to heal. I think I need to simplify my meals. Tuna salad sounds pretty good for a start.

I think I took Cordyceps in the past but I may give it another go. Most products sell as a ratio (I.e. 10:1). Are these any good, or are the extracted products weak?

I too deal with a lot of insomnia and restlessness. I havent woke up with energy for 14 years. I have to just force myself up and wake very slowly as I shower.

On 4/8/2020 at 3:20 PM, Guest said:

Hi,

can someone try taking an association of B12 (hydroxy + methyl + adenosyl 333g each), copper (1-2mg), iron (50-80mg) and choline (250mg) (+wormwood if possible)for 20 days (maybe not for iron, need tobe careful not to get an excess) to see what happens?

 

i did all that plus traditional saunas and most of all lot of sport (endurance/running) until i succeeded at running for 10 km at 10km/h and i feel a lot better now, after accutane i never succeeded at running more than 5 minutes, literally. accutane damage bloodflow and the brain can't heal without adressing that with sport. ginkgomaybe helped too.

vitamin D3 (from lichen the only one ifound effective) & stopping caffeine was very useful too.

 

ps: cbd helped me to do sport (and also quinton plasma), i was in constant inflammation from a vicious circle of stress & accutane that prevented me from doing anything.
i also worked on my emotional blockages caused by accutane inability to feel anything (even if things are still present) plus the rage & hatred all that causes over the years with breating techniques, many other stress relieving techniques & most of all i had a permanent diaphragm blockage that needed to be adressed.i literally cried for months every day after starting this process, along with sport and everything else, my memory started to come back, my emotions, everything, there was so much hatred, pain and suffering that all accumulated over the years was eating me, accutane cause everything to accumulate without being expelled, since you are already dead and can't feel anything anyway.

accutane is the enemy, but it's gone, why continue to try to attack or blame something that isn't there any longer and you can do nothing about, if you blame accutane, you blame the damage it did to your body, and you blame your own body in a sense. just need to let go of the enemy.
if you don't let go of the hatred, or blaming accutane, you will never heal, cause you will direct your energy into the wrong direction.

Hello.

Your post spoke to me as I deal with a lot of emotional numbness. I often feel dead inside, to the point where I cant feel love for those I care for most. Its awful. How is it you say you started to feel again? I would love to cry, but its nearly impossible for me. Im actually paying a coach at the moment, who specialises in emotional skills, but Im 7 sessions in and progress is very slow. Im not sure Ill keep it up as its not cheap. I would also like to exercise but anything above walking destroys me for days.

With tuna, remember that albacore is best since it has more omega 3 fat than light tuna. Breaded shrimp is another excellent dha source. With cordyceps, avoid the concentrates and avoid standardized extracts. If you see a ratio or if you see a percent sign, put it back, it's junk. If you see just cordyceps, and no fillers, it's good. Amazon has a few good brands that meet this criteria.

Natures life brand is an excellent source of defatted beef liver, as is Swanson health. And sun chips is an excellent source of low fat whole grains, which is important for butyrate production. Avoid sun chips original as it's GMO. Sun chips non original is non GMO.

Indigo, fire the emotional coach right now. He can't help you with this. You must flush this poison out of your body. Crucifers are known for lymphatic health. Lymphatics are a big part of this. The drug is trapped inside you. The lymphatic system is the system of garbage removal. Cabbage juice absolutely should be able to help with this.

And don't feel guilty about not being able to do more than walking. Walking is plenty good for now. You must get those detox pathways opened up before even thinking about doing more than walking.