Acne.org Products
Hi Y'all!
Was just going to once again confirm that, for me at least, vitamin k2 supplementation = 99% chance of morning wood the next day. Order online and try to get your best value for money. Personally I'm taking it with vitamin D and magnesium, because they are also in my recovery protocol. Makes sense because fat soluable vitamins work in tandem, and having supplemented vitamin A and vitD already and not noticing a massive difference in the long term, it should be obvious in hindsight that vitK was neccesary as well. For backstory, in my recovery journey I took large amounts of vitamin A because before I began researching my treatments I believed because I showed some signs of vitamin A deficiency taking a lot of vitamin A might fix me up lol. Go back several hundred pages to late 2015 and you could find some of my posts there. (Just relaying old info because I don't recognise many people currently posting)
Taking 5k-10k IU of vitA is good, just not 50k-100k IU daily like I took for a month. The RDA of vitA, 5000IU, is enough to stave off deficiency, and because Isotretinoin can cause VitA deficiency, taking the RDA is like treating poison with the antidote, while I treated poison with poison way back when.
My treatment philosophy since 2016 has been whenever possible show research to back my statements, no high risk treatments, because they are unneccesary/expensive, and obviously carry risk, and generally update what I am currently trying and then follow-up to say how it is going and/or how it went.
My current routine is:
- 2000 IU vitD
- 360 IU k2
- Zinc
- magnesium
- multivitamin
- BCAAs through protein powder
- 20 min of meditation (helps focus/concentration as well everything else mental)
- COQ10.
- Fish Oil. Currently run out, make sure to refridgerate/keep out of sunlight to prevent oxidisation
- Hesperidin methyl chalcone, and believe it does help with memory/depression, but not so much concentration/focus. Works through improving blood flow to the brain neurogenesis and neuroprotection. Really great supplement.
Hesperidin attenuates depression-related symptoms in mice with mild traumatic brain injury.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30352242/
This study suggests that the antidepressant-like effect of hesperidin may be mediated, at least in part, by decreased neuroinflammation and oxidative damage, and enhanced BDNF production in the hippocampus.
Hesperidin Alleviates Methotrexate-Induced Memory Deficits via Hippocampal Neurogenesis in Adult Rats.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31027240
"The data showed that Hsd and MTX did not disable locomotor ability. The MTX animals exhibited memory deficits in both memory tests. There were significant decreases in the numbers of cell proliferation, survival, and immature neurons in the MTX animals. However, co-administration with MTX and Hsd alleviated memory loss and neurogenesis decline. These results revealed that Hsd could protect against MTX side effects in the animals in this study."
I also tried ashwagandha for 3 months, and believe it was good for anxiety, tesosterone and mood
2 hours ago, Calcified said:This is what I don't get, vitamin A increases testosterone when people supplement when deficient, yet if someone deficient takes accutane instead of vitamin A, I can't help wondering how this would vary. Maybe no increase or decrease in testosterone, like in studies?
Lets say I'm deficient which it's looking possible, what's worse, Accutane or Vitamin A? Same results or totally different?
Trust me I want to put down the retinyl palmitate as I honestly am concerned about liver issues, toxicity etc.
I think supplementing zinc would help if you're worried about your liver. Vitamin A induced liver damage shows that it severely depletes zinc in your body, and the depletion of zinc in your body is what it know to cause liver damage in alcoholics, and liver damage in alcoholics can be mitagated by zinc supplementation.
[Effect of acute hypervitaminosis A on serum concentrations of Na, K, Mg, Fe, Zn and Cu in rats].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455184
".... The serum content of potassium, magnesium and copper increased significantly, while the content of sodium, zinc and iron decreased significantly in the treated animals, when compared to the values obtained with untreated animals. "
Zinc is crucial in maintaining healthy liver function
Zinc and Alcoholic Liver Disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7065391/
"...Zinc deficiency has been well documented in patients with alcoholic liver disease (ALD). The zinc levels in serum and liver of patients with ALD were significantly lower than those of normal subjects..."
"...Our research findings suggest that zinc deficiency is a causal factor in the development of ALD. Inactivation of zinc proteins due to zinc release under oxidative stress condition at least partially accounts for alcohol-induced metabolic disorders and/or cell injury. Dietary zinc supplementation provides protection against alcohol-induced liver injury through modulating multiple pathways, including oxidative stress, alcohol metabolic pathways, lipid metabolic pathways, cytokine production and cell death signaling. MTs play an important role in cellular zinc homeostasis, and the hepatic zinc status correlates well with hepatic MT concentrations. Short-term zinc treatment can induce significant MT expression in the liver, and at least partially medicates the protective effects of zinc on acute alcohol intoxication. However, long-term dietary zinc supplementation induced only limited MT expression in the liver. Therefore, the beneficial effects of long-term dietary zinc supplementation on alcohol-induced liver damage are mainly generated from the actions of zinc per se rather than MTs. Because of the importance of MTs in maintaining cellular zinc homeostasis and promoting zinc trafficking, exploring methods that reverse alcohol-induced hepatic MT depletion is one of attractive strategies in efforts to restore the activities of zinc proteins..."
Anyways, I think k2 helps with some of the sexual side effects, especially that mind-body disconnect that seems prevalent with us men, and if its doing good there its probably doing good elsewhere in the body too 
Love all you guys/girls, good luck recovering!
20 hours ago, under_tow said:Two studies from ~50years ago showing that the vitamin A toxicity issues were already present, this is why we get acne in the first place.
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Vitamin A and carotene levels of a selected population in metropolitan Washington, D. C.
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1093/ajcn/26.9.992286 micrograms Vit A per gram of liver is diagnostically Vitamin A toxic.
1 mmol Vit A / gram of liver = 286ug Vit A / g of liver
24.2% (80 / 329 subjects) were Vitamin A toxic (300ug/g in liver, regardless of race, sex, or cause of death).
1 out of 4 basically, 50yrs ago
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https://sci-hub.tw/10.1093/ajcn/23.8.1037
"Calculations based on time minimal and median values for hepatic vitamin A concentrations from Table 1 indicate that no drop in plasma values would be anticipated for 22-220 days in the complete absence of a dietary source of vitamin A-active foods."
No drop in blood Vitamin A with complete abstention for possibly up to 7.5 months! This shows just how large the Vitamin A stores are in the liver, that they can easily maintain this for months and months. Studies also showing the the adrenals are another place with heavy storage, especially carotenes, CFS via vitamin A.
---
So we were already carotene and vitamin A toxic with acne, then took accutane(high dose active vitamin A, retinoic acid), which locked that toxic vitamin A in liver and other storage tissue, due to depleting minerals(Molybdenum), disabling B1/B2 metabolism, and disabling the ADH and ALDH systems. Since we are now seeing people approach 1.5yrs on low VA, starting to see the blood serum reports showing that vitamin A does not start dropping off in serum until after 1yr on low VA(this is for people that were not on accutane), so I suspect it will probably be 1-2yrs for those on accutane for relief of symptoms. If you dont' want acne in the first place, low VA should be the first approach.
Example from yesterday, serum levels, non-accutane:
"my VA level every 4 months: 68, 65, 62, and finally 1 year and 4 months in: 44.6"
Getting down to 20 or below should be the goal, for the body to start full repair.
This is great information.
Quick question, are you treating Vitamin A from animal sources the same as sources from plant carotenoids?
I completely believe this Vitamin A depletion diet is the way to go and I have tried lots of things to speed up the process. Fasting and exercise seem to work best in terms of how I feel but I haven't had me Vitmain A levels measured.
One sticking point is that I was assured by a doctor (who I completely trust and who is doing amazing things for patients with cancer and autoimmune disease with just a dietary intervention) that vitamin A from animal tissue such as liver is not an issue even with previous Accutane usage. It is the beta carotene etc. that should be avoided.
So I've started adding some lambs liver back into my diet because it's extremely nutritious.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Lee
Not sure why you'd want to compare vitamin A with accutane. One is an essential nutrient, the other is a toxic poison. Completely different things. If you're retinol replete when taking accutane it's much easier to recover when the course is finished. If you're retinol deficient when taking accutane the recovery is much more difficult.
If you're retinol deficient, accutane is far worse for you than retinol. Completely different results because they are completely different things.
If your pancreas is messed up from accutane, your body isn't going to absorb much fat or fat soluble vitamins, your microbiome will be overloaded with retinol and fat, and you will react because the microbiome is getting overloaded and your body isn't getting any of the fat or vitamins. Once the pancreas is functioning normally again, no more microbiome overload. Now your body is getting the fat and fat soluble vitamins instead of your microbiome.
I've taken beef pancreas two nights in a row and with albacore tuna I'm dreaming again. No bad reaction to the beef pancreas. Beef kidney comes in today. Combining the two tonight.
People who try to meet their vitamin and mineral needs with synthetic pills do themselves more harm than good. Weve been trained to think in terms of making sure we get all the government recommended amounts of all vitamins and minerals, and in order to do that, we better take this daily multivitamin, or else. Stop.
Instead, listen to your body. What whole foods does your body want? Once you start supplementing with pancreas and kidney, the foods you crave will become healthier. I wouldn't even think about vitamin A, and I wouldn't buy these organs until I report results in the coming days. Or if you do buy today, don't open until you hear the results from me. Don't want anyone wasting money. But so far so good with the beef pancreas.
Just remember what a mistake it is to focus on vitamin status. It's much better to learn how organ meats can restore normalcy to your system.
Lamb liver is a much better choice than synthetic vitamin A pills, but....Vitamin A from beef or lamb liver can absolutely be a problem if you consume too much.
I just think synthetic vitamin and mineral isolates does more harm than good. Overthinking everything and trying to manipulate your body with all these synthetic isolates. How healthy does that sound? Doesn't sound very healthy to me. Wholesome organ meats and herbs is a more fundamentally sound and nutritious approach.
10 hours ago, Calcified said:Undertow is your test going up on anti A?
Hey @Calcified, my T was midline after accutane 15.2nmol (7.6 - 31.4 range) and free T was low 35.4 (31 - 94 range). I plan to test as many variables as I can this Fall when hit 2yrs low VA diet. T, DHT, DHEA, LH, Estro, thyroid, VA, iron, copper, zinc, etc.
Some things symptom wise related, I have the best libido in years, less shrinkage, excellent nocturnal and morning wood, good volume and no PE or lasting issues. Right after accutane had the normal lowered libido issues, but like I mentioned before would consider them not severe as some others are dealing with, but I could be with a beautiful women and not get aroused.
3 hours ago, marshl1 said:This is great information.
Quick question, are you treating Vitamin A from animal sources the same as sources from plant carotenoids?
I completely believe this Vitamin A depletion diet is the way to go and I have tried lots of things to speed up the process. Fasting and exercise seem to work best in terms of how I feel but I haven't had me Vitmain A levels measured.
One sticking point is that I was assured by a doctor (who I completely trust and who is doing amazing things for patients with cancer and autoimmune disease with just a dietary intervention) that vitamin A from animal tissue such as liver is not an issue even with previous Accutane usage. It is the beta carotene etc. that should be avoided.
So I've started adding some lambs liver back into my diet because it's extremely nutritious.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Lee
Hey Lee,
Yes plant and animal VA should be avoided, we like all animals turn plant retinol(carotenoids) into animal retinol. When we are overloaded, the carotenoids are also stored intact in the skin fat tissues and also liver and other organs, to much will bring on carotenemia, you can see this in your calluses, especially in peoples feet.
I think fasting should be avoided for now, we really need protein, minerals and B vitamins to mobilize the VA for excretion. Exercise is good to get the VA released.
Anyway I would avoid the lambs liver until your symptoms improve, it is a potent source of pre-formed VA.
@under_towthanks for sharing info much appreciated.
Will be good to compare results, I have had an increase in test with palmitate, but I don't know if it's long lasting.
There is no such thing as plant retinol. Anyone who says something as ridiculous as this doesn't understand basic nutrition. Carotenemia is absolutely possible from too much carotenoid consumption, which is extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve from whole foods.
Carotenemia can occur if the liver and/or kidneys aren't functioning properly. The most effective way to achieve optimal kidney and liver functioning is by consuming the liver and kidneys of healthy grassfed beef.
2 hours ago, Aaron76 said:I just think synthetic vitamin and mineral isolates does more harm than good. Overthinking everything and trying to manipulate your body with all these synthetic isolates. How healthy does that sound? Doesn't sound very healthy to me. Wholesome organ meats and herbs is a more fundamentally sound and nutritious approach.
I might give beef liver a try but I don't know if I can stomach 40,000iu of it, Im guessing it's probably a lot of meat to eat. How many ius in your intake?
You won't get 40k iu from a beef liver supplement. 3 grams of beef liver pills provides about 100% of the usrda for vitamin A. I've been back and forth with beef liver, mainly I believe because of my malfunctioning kidneys pancreas and gut.
Tonight I'm consuming all four. Liver pancreas kidneys and intestines. Not sure yet if I'll do 6 of each tonight or start with one of each and work up to six. Ancestral supplements, codeage, Dr rons are three of the top companies. Perfect brand liver and nmore brand liver are smaller but decent brands. Nutricology and allergy research group are ok, but they have some added fillers.
I believe consuming beef liver by itself can do more harm than good, but if it's combined with other organs of elimination and digestion can be helpful.
On 4/1/2020 at 11:08 AM, Aaron76 said:I'm low in all of the fat soluble vitamins, including retinol, and react badly to all of them except k. The reason I'm low in all of them is because of a poorly functioning pancreas post accutane. A healthy pancreas is needed for fat and fat soluble vitamin absorption. An accutane damaged pancreas produces inadequate lipase. This is where raw beef pancreas comes in. Can do things that no herbal pancreas formula can do. Same thing applies for raw beef kidney vs herbal kidney formulas.
A person could take a full course of accutane, 80 mg daily, starting January 1 of this year, and be fully recovered from it by christmas, without any nonsensical low carotenoid diet. There is no such thing as carotenoid toxicity from whole foods. Retinol toxicity is a very real thing. Carotenoids, no. The only way to become carotenoid toxic would be from a beta carotene supplement.
Nobody needs to sit around and wait years of their life for accutane or vitamin A to magically drain from the body. Recovery from this simply doesn't work that way. The key is to regenerate key organs of digestion and detoxification.
People who don't want acne should cut back on added sugar and consume yogurt or kefir on a regular basis to prevent gut bacterial imbalance, which is the root cause of acne.
Have you had a doctor measure your lipase and amylase levels? It's fairly easy to do.
15 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:You won't get 40k iu from a beef liver supplement. 3 grams of beef liver pills provides about 100% of the usrda for vitamin A. I've been back and forth with beef liver, mainly I believe because of my malfunctioning kidneys pancreas and gut.
Tonight I'm consuming all four. Liver pancreas kidneys and intestines. Not sure yet if I'll do 6 of each tonight or start with one of each and work up to six. Ancestral supplements, codeage, Dr rons are three of the top companies. Perfect brand liver and nmore brand liver are smaller but decent brands. Nutricology and allergy research group are ok, but they have some added fillers.
I believe consuming beef liver by itself can do more harm than good, but if it's combined with other organs of elimination and digestion can be helpful.
How about I try cooking lamb liver and eating 200grams of it per day, ever tried this? Possibly safer?
I'm done with doctors. Doctors have a central patient database that tracks people all over the us. When they can't reverse the damage their comrades did decades earlier, they all label the patient as a hypochondriac, it's put into the database, and it's a useless endeavor. In a mainstream doctors mind, we are making it all up. Theres no such thing as accutane damage according to these idiots.
Amylase and lipase are pancreas based. Consuming beef pancreas solves that issue.
Consuming 200 grams of lamb liver could put an accutane victim in the hospital. Seriously. Definitely don't do that. No more than 3 grams at a time. And I'd seriously hesitate to do that without also consuming kidneys with it. Kidneys are the other major organ of elimination. Consuming Beef kidney will help your body flush our retinoic acid when you consume the beef liver. I would never do beef liver by itself. I've learned my lesson from that.
If I didn't have an assortment of organs at home right now, id probably order one of the multi beef organ bottles from Amazon, which includes liver kidney and pancreas and others. I might also add the ancestral intestines to the mix. Multivitamin supplements are a thing of the past. Multi organ supplements are a thing of the future.
I need to share some important info that I've failed to report. Whole beef liver I feel is an Androgenic substance. I believe this is why I experience major bph issues when I take it standalone. Garlic alleviates some of the bph, but the problem with garlic is the phytoestrogens. Tribulus causes bph also. Saw palmetto helps the bph but it wipes out my hormones.
What if there were a substance that was both pro androgen and pro prostate health? There just might be, and its name is graminex, aka flower pollen extract. I ordered some from Amazon and should have it no later than Monday.
I share product info here not to encourage people to buy it, but to update the board with new info. When I announce new products, it might be best to hold off on buying it and just wait to see what I report with it. Will report info here next week.
On 4/2/2020 at 11:41 AM, marshl1 said:This is great information.
Quick question, are you treating Vitamin A from animal sources the same as sources from plant carotenoids?
I completely believe this Vitamin A depletion diet is the way to go and I have tried lots of things to speed up the process. Fasting and exercise seem to work best in terms of how I feel but I haven't had me Vitmain A levels measured.
One sticking point is that I was assured by a doctor (who I completely trust and who is doing amazing things for patients with cancer and autoimmune disease with just a dietary intervention) that vitamin A from animal tissue such as liver is not an issue even with previous Accutane usage. It is the beta carotene etc. that should be avoided.
So I've started adding some lambs liver back into my diet because it's extremely nutritious.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Lee
Hello Lee,
can you elaborate further why your doctor thinks, that animal based Vitamin A is no problem? When Vitamin depletion diet is the way to go it sounds illogical to continue with animal based Vitamin A intake. It is almost a contradiction.
Thanks,
Roland
36 minutes ago, Roland1968 said:
Hello Lee,
can you elaborate further why your doctor thinks, that animal based Vitamin A is no problem? When Vitamin depletion diet is the way to go it sounds illogical to continue with animal based Vitamin A intake. It is almost a contradiction.
Thanks,
Roland
I agree it does sound like a contradiction but i'm not going to try and explain her reasoning because I wouldn't do it justice.
I'll just mention her name isDr Zsofia Clemens and she is based at Paleomedicina in Hungary. She treat's patients with the Paleo ketogenic diet which is exclusively animal based. They are achieving amazing things with this diet and they even have some post Accutane patients like myself that they are treating. I am going to try and get in contact with these patients, firstly to see how they are getting on and secondly if they were concerned about eating liver on this diet.
Check out some youtube videos of her explaining her approach
3 minutes ago, marshl1 said:I agree it does sound like a contradiction but i'm not going to try and explain her reasoning because I wouldn't do it justice.
I'll just mention her name isDr Zsofia Clemens and she is based at Paleomedicina in Hungary. She treat's patients with the Paleo ketogenic diet which is exclusively animal based. They are achieving amazing things with this diet and they even have some post Accutane patients like myself that they are treating. I am going to try and get in contact with these patients, firstly to see how they are getting on and secondly if they were concerned about eating liver on this diet.
Check out some youtube videos of her explaining her approach
It sounds like a good idea to contact some her post Accutane patients. Please keep us posted on results. I am sure many here would appreciate it.
3 hours ago, marshl1 said:Bir celiski gibi geldigine katiliyorum ama onun gerekcesini aciklamaya calismayacagim cunku adaleti yapmayacagim.
Sadece isminin Dr Zsofia Clemens oldugunu ve Macaristan'daki Paleomedicina'da bulundugunu soyleyecegim. Hastalarina sadece hayvan bazli Paleo ketojenik diyet uygular. Bu diyetle inanilmaz seyler basariyorlar ve hatta benim gibi Accutane sonrasi bazi tedavileri var. Ilk once nasil ilerlediklerini ve ikinci olarak bu diyette karaciger yemek konusunda endiseli olup olmadiklarini gormek icin bu hastalarla temasa gecmeye calisacagim.
Onun yaklasimini aciklayan bazi youtube videolarina goz atin
We waiting results about accutane sufferers.
On 4/2/2020 at 9:26 PM, Calcified said:What's bph?
Bpb means enlarged prostate.
https://alternacareinc.com/adrenals-top-4-damage-medications/
When it comes to quantum biofeedback machines, there are several keys to success. You can't be ignorant. You cannot cling to old ideas or notions. You must be open minded. And you absolutely must pay sharp attention to the finest of details. If you can do all of these things I believe you can be successful.
I'm an American who purchased a Russian made quantum biofeedback machine from Amazon a while back. This machine naturally caters to European nutraceutical companies and their products. One of the top supplement recommendations that has always appeared is ginkgo/gotu kola combo. This combo appears toward the top of the recommended supplements section from multiple companies, consistently.
I tried to come up with an American equivalent by supplementing with eclectic institute ginkgo gotu kola combo without much luck. I also tried combining Swanson full spectrum ginkgo with whole gotu kola without any luck. Recently I tried natures way ginkgo extract/whole gotu kola combo and it's given me better results than any supplement I've ever taken. Definitely not healed, but so far it feels like a supplement I could continue taking and not have to quit, which is what ends up happening with all other supplements. I'm taking two in the morning and two before bed.
It's giving me better results mentally than the cinnamon, wasabi, Astragalus, or beef organs. Currently it's the only supplement I'm using. Will it heal me completely? I don't know. Will I stick with it daily, and provide feedback to the board on a regular basis? Absolutely.
15 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:Bpb means enlarged prostate.
https://alternacareinc.com/adrenals-top-4-damage-medications/
Do you think it's the vitamin A causing bph? I have noticed a drop in SHBG on vitamin A.
I have heard people complaining about headaches on vitamin A , maybe your beef liver is fully loaded with it. I've only encountered it at really high doses. Do you know how many ius of A in it?
Under_tow mentioned once before how vitamin A competes with thyroid hormone. I wonder if this is why?
I know whole beef liver is an excellent source of retinol. 3 grams of whole beef liver provide 100% usrda of vitamin A. Iodine is important for thyroid health. Too much retinoic acid interferes with iodine metabolism. Laminaria, aka kelp, always appears toward the top of my machines recommended foods list, but thanks to accutane, I can't tolerate kelp due to the iodine content. If I havent supplemented with beef liver for a while, it appears toward the top of the recommended foods list. When I supplement with beef liver, and then do a scan that night, beef liver drops down or off the recommended foods list.
The nature's way ginkgo/gotu kola product seems to be stimulating metabolism, which is a good thing, although still not as fast as I would like. Stools are noticeably darker, which indicates bile flow is improved.