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6 hours ago, Aaron76 said:
Biotin was tried a few times years ago and it had a rotten affect on me each time. It's a synthetic isolate, which for many people does more harm than good. Ceylon cinnamon is a whole food. Will keep the board updated with it.
I'm glad you brought this up. I've known I had a biotin problem since probably 2012 but the doses were either too high or it had a bunch if additives that made me feel weird so I could never tolerate it either. I eventually figured out the GNC brand has less additives and it doesn't make me feel like crap.
Here's the catch though: if I take it first thing or early in the day, it makes me feel like crap - possibly doing something to my blood sugar or cortisol. However, taking it at 3pm all I get is clean energy and a feeling of well-being.
However, I recommend you all get tested first. If you're in the low normal range, you are probably deficient.
6 hours ago, eliburgi said:Interesting. Ive also read a lot that accutane affects biotin levels but was too afraid to take isolated vitamins again (in the past I did take all sort of isolated stuff and it got me nowhere; and after tane I just believe in natural compounds like herbs, fruit, veggies, etc.). But so glad it helped you being able to sweat again! I think sweating is rly rly important, everytime after the infrared sauna I feel so much happier and lighter for the rest of the day.
What is interesting too (according to Dr. Morse): Heat regulation is controlled by the thyroid gland (and parathyroid). Before tane I would often sweat at night and in the sun. After tane this stopped. But in the sauna i still sweat. Now I started taking a Parathyroid Glandularand guess what, the last two nights I did sweat lightly. So maybe it is not onlythe biotin but also some thyroid or parathyroid issue...
I had other signs of biotin deficiency from breathing issues and shortness of breath (that no doctor could explain), to fungal infections, hair and eyelashes falling out, dry skin, etc.
I see a lot of wild theories being thrown around and people wasting time chasing them. Im guilty of having done that in the past too but we need to stick to what the science says.
The only exception is the vitamin a deficient diet. Why isnt everyone on this at least for a couple of months?
1 hour ago, MonsterDiesel said:I'm glad you brought this up. I've known I had a biotin problem since probably 2012 but the doses were either too high or it had a bunch if additives that made me feel weird so I could never tolerate it either. I eventually figured out the GNC brand has less additives and it doesn't make me feel like crap.
Here's the catch though: if I take it first thing or early in the day, it makes me feel like crap - possibly doing something to my blood sugar or cortisol. However, taking it at 3pm all I get is clean energy and a feeling of well-being.
However, I recommend you all get tested first. If you're in the low normal range, you are probably deficient.
I had other signs of biotin deficiency from breathing issues and shortness of breath (that no doctor could explain), to fungal infections, hair and eyelashes falling out, dry skin, etc.
I see a lot of wild theories bring thrown around and people making wasting time chasing them. Im guilty of having done that in the past too but we need to stick what the science says.
The only exception is the vitamin a deficient diet. Why isnt everyone on this at least for a couple of months?
Because the vitamin A deficient diet is sooo boring. I just cannot go without fruits or veggies. And I do not crave meat that hard to eat it all day. But interesting point with the biotin. Might test myself for it. Now I cant though because of corona the doctors will only accept life-threatening or really important patients. So no blood testing for me currently.
Monster how long have you been doing Vit A deficient diet? Did it heal stuff?
3 minutes ago, eliburgi said:Because the vitamin A deficient diet is sooo boring. I just cannot go without fruits or veggies. And I do not crave meat that hard to eat it all day. But interesting point with the biotin. Might test myself for it. Now I cant though because of corona the doctors will only accept life-threatening or really important patients. So no blood testing for me currently .
You can probably test for it without a doctor from an online lab.
48 minutes ago, MonsterDiesel said:You can probably test for it without a doctor from an online lab.
But then I would have to take a blood sample by myself :O I cant even look at my own blood ... ^^ Also how can one do this without training?
Also Iam interested in your experience with low Vit A diet ^^
Why would anyone think we have too much vitamin A after accutane? They are two completely different things that compete for the same rxr and rar receptors. Accutane is just one small component of vitamin A. For most victims, it's wise to avoid preformed retinol and consume beta carotene rich whole foods. I've never heard of whole food beta carotene intolerance but if md deals with that I can understand avoiding those foods.
One major point of daily yang cinnamon supplementation is to get the body to stop craving yang foods, meat and dairy, and to crave more fruits and veggies. When the body is heated up it will no longer crave yang foods.
3 hours ago, Aaron76 said:Why would anyone think we have too much vitamin A after accutane? They are two completely different things that compete for the same rxr and rar receptors. Accutane is just one small component of vitamin A. For most victims, it's wise to avoid preformed retinol and consume beta carotene rich whole foods. I've never heard of whole food beta carotene intolerance but if md deals with that I can understand avoiding those foods.
One major point of daily yang cinnamon supplementation is to get the body to stop craving yang foods, meat and dairy, and to crave more fruits and veggies. When the body is heated up it will no longer crave yang foods.
But I am already craving fruits and veggies ^^
3 hours ago, Aaron76 said:Eli you mentioned being mostly fruitarian the past six months and your hands are often blue. It's because you are far too yin from all the fruit. Heat things up with less yin foods and more yang foods and daily yang cinnamon and the blue hands will resolve.
Sry Aaron but this might not be that simple. Ive had the blue/red hands even before accutane. Just not as often. So way before eating mostly raw/fruitarian. I did eat a good amount of meat and dairy back then...
Also I can remember a woman who healed her Raynauds (blue hands) following the diet promoted by medical medium (Anthony William): mostly fruits and veggies.
6 hours ago, eliburgi said:But then I would have to take a blood sample by myself :O I cant even look at my own blood ... ^^ Also how can one do this without training?
Also Iam interested in your experience with low Vit A diet ^^
You order online then go to a lab to draw blood. It's all included.
5 hours ago, Aaron76 said:Why would anyone think we have too much vitamin A after accutane? They are two completely different things that compete for the same rxr and rar receptors. Accutane is just one small component of vitamin A. For most victims, it's wise to avoid preformed retinol and consume beta carotene rich whole foods. I've never heard of whole food beta carotene intolerance but if md deals with that I can understand avoiding those foods.
One major point of daily yang cinnamon supplementation is to get the body to stop craving yang foods, meat and dairy, and to crave more fruits and veggies. When the body is heated up it will no longer crave yang foods.
There's an idea going around that a lot of people are vitamin a toxic even without taking tane and some blood work seems to confirm it. It's simply. Do a no vitamin a challenge for a month. Do you feel better? How do you feel after re-introducing it? That's should tell you a lot. Some ofthe vitamin a you consume gets conveted to 13-cis retinoic acid (isotretinoin) so how do you ever expect to heal from this?
I used cinnamon years ago for it's memory boosting ability. I took it for months. It did help a bit but that was about it. If you think it, I've done it. Not sure what you think cinnamon will do you for you but it wont hurt. However, make sure it's not a wild theory and you can back this back with research so you can manage your hopes and expectations.
I havent heard of anyone else here doing kinesiology- clearing emotional blockages, doing spinal adjustments etc to rebalance the body. Its not the be all and end all but my points below still apply to everyone
Im assuming this might be the reason youre not responding as well as you can to certain supplements. At the moment Ive got issues absorbing/processing/eliminating Zinc
we hope to correct this over next few sessions
I could supplement Zinc all I want but it wont correct the underlying issue. For you that could be any number of supplements youre not responding tooinc cinnamon yeah
Please keep this in mind when youre wondering why a supplement isnt working as expected. Very likely that a blockage is impeding the process
@MonsterDiesel have you had your blood tested for retinol levels?
4 minutes ago, Calcified said:@MonsterDiesel have you had your blood tested for retinol levels?
Not yet. I'll get around to it.
On 3/7/2020 at 3:26 AM, under_tow said:Just posted today, someone who has not taken accutane, just regular western diet, 45 is still very high, getting down to 20 probably allows for real healing to begin, youthful serum levels.
Serum VA levels
labs are in ug/dl:
4 months: 68
8 months: 65
12 months: 62
16 months: 45
@MonsterDiesel as above non accutane person with very high retinol level prior to anti a diet.
8 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:You order online then go to a lab to draw blood. It's all included.
There's an idea going around that a lot of people are vitamin a toxic even without taking tane and some blood work seems to confirm it. It's simply. Do a no vitamin a challenge for a month. Do you feel better? How do you feel after re-introducing it? That's should tell you a lot. Some ofthe vitamin a you consume gets conveted to 13-cis retinoic acid (isotretinoin) so how do you ever expect to heal from this?
I used cinnamon years ago for it's memory boosting ability. I took it for months. It did help a bit but that was about it. If you think it, I've done it. Not sure what you think cinnamon will do you for you but it wont hurt. However, make sure it's not a wild theory and you can back this back with research so you can manage your hopes and expectations.
Whole beef liver and cod liver oil makes me feel like garbage. Whole food beta carotene does absolutely nothing bad to me. It's harmless to me. The body will never convert beta carotene into vitamin A or 13 cis retinoic acid unless it's necessary. If it's not necessary, then it's washed out of the body unused. I suspect your guts are infected with parasites, as is everyone else in here, and it's the sugars in the beta carotene foods that are feeding the parasites in your gut that's causing your reactions.
Ceylon Cinnamon is the most powerful yang substance on the planet. Parasites cannot thrive in a yang body. Boosting internal yang energy is the key to eliminating accutane induced parasitic infections and recovering. I've cut out all sugar including fructose.
When someone pours a teaspoon of cinnamon into an 8 is glass of water, juice, milk, or tea, stirs, and drinks, they are doing very little to increase yang energy. But when they take 6 capsules daily, with just a swig of water with those pills, now they are creating internal yang energy. Water, juice, tea, milk are all yin substances. It defeats the purpose of what one is trying to accomplish with cinnamon if they take it with a bunch of yin liquid.
Ceylon Cinnamons the best supplement I've ever taken. Stress is completely gone. Sleep is better. Stools are loose and watery, which indicates it's working to eradicate the parasitic infections in my gut.
4 hours ago, Calcified said:@MonsterDiesel have you had your blood tested for retinol levels?
Are those even relevant? Ive read that blood serum retinol levels do not tell ANYTHING about how much retinol is stored in your body. I believe there are no clinical tests one can perform to detect vit a overload.
6 hours ago, eliburgi said:I believe there are no clinical tests one can perform to detect vit a overload.
Liver biopsy is the standard test, and studies going back to the 1980's are showing more and more that peoples livers are filling up with vitamin A. Fatty liver from both alcohol and non-alcohol factors are caused by vitamin A. Serum retinol is a subpar test, but the only one widely available. You can see the numbers start to come down the longer you are on low vitamin A diet, which should translate to lower liver and fat tissues storage. As the numbers come down, peoples symptoms lessen. This is the affect on my PAS symptoms as well.
I did accutane twice, high dose cod liver oil, high dose retinyl palmitate, high dose liver, high diary/egg intake, high dose beta carotene, and now at almost 1.5yrs VA free seeing relief. Getting vitamin A out is an long process. Liver can store up to two years worth, hence deficiency does not happen, it is in all foods. Like @MonsterDiesel mentioned it is very easy to test, just go VA free for a month. But remember as you switch from inflow of VA to outflow of VA, you will get detox reaction, as it is like being on accutane again, retinoic acid is being made for excretion. beef/rice/beans provided all the nutrient to keep DH and ALDH systems running to make retinoic acid, beans provide soluble fiber to catch VA in the bile as well for excretion. The first year for me was roller coaster of feeling like shit and feeling better, with a continual positive movement.
6 hours ago, Aaron76 said:The body will never convert beta carotene into vitamin A or 13 cis retinoic acid unless it's necessary.
Beta carotene is just two retinol molecules, the only way for these to leave the body is by conversion to retinoic acid, the body is always producing 13-cis, along with other analogues during excretion.
https://www.jlr.org/content/31/2/175.long
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.nut.2008.05.022
Results and conclusion:This study shows that consumption of carrot juice containing high concentrations of the provitamin A carotenoid-carotene results in slightly, non-significantly increased plasma ROL concentrations and strong,significantly increased (almost double, from 1.20 to 2.00 ng/mL) plasma concentrations of ATRA, whereas consumption of tomato juice and spinach powder results in no significant alteration in concentrations of plasma ROL and ATRA.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01977634
The concentrations of retinoic acid compounds were monitored by a newly developed highly sensitive HPLC procedure in plasma of six volunteers who received 833 IU vitamin A per kg body weight per day during a 20-day period. There was a significant increase of alltrans-retinoic acid (two-fold), 13-cis-retinoic acid (7-fold) and 13-cis-4-oxoretinoic acid (5-fold) over endogenous plasma levels of these retinoids. The same compounds had previously been found after treatment with the teratogenic drug isotretinoin (Roaccutan, Accutane). Our results raise the possibility that high vitamin A intake may carry a teratogenic risk attributable to increased levels of retinoic acid compounds generated from retinol by metabolic processes.
1 hour ago, under_tow said:
Liver biopsy is the standard test, and studies going back to the 1980's are showing more and more that peoples livers are filling up with vitamin A. Fatty liver from both alcohol and non-alcohol factors are caused by vitamin A. Serum retinol is a subpar test, but the only one widely available. You can see the numbers start to come down the longer you are on low vitamin A diet, which should translate to lower liver and fat tissues storage. As the numbers come down, peoples symptoms lessen. This is the affect on my PAS symptoms as well.
I did accutane twice, high dose cod liver oil, high dose retinyl palmitate, high dose liver, high diary/egg intake, high dose beta carotene, and now at almost 1.5yrs VA free seeing relief. Getting vitamin A out is an long process. Liver can store up to two years worth, hence deficiency does not happen, it is in all foods. Like @MonsterDiesel mentioned it is very easy to test, just go VA free for a month. But remember as you switch from inflow of VA to outflow of VA, you will get detox reaction, as it is like being on accutane again, retinoic acid is being made for excretion. beef/rice/beans provided all the nutrient to keep DH and ALDH systems running to make retinoic acid, beans provide soluble fiber to catch VA in the bile as well for excretion. The first year for me was roller coaster of feeling like shit and feeling better, with a continual positive movement.
Beta carotene is just two retinol molecules, the only way for these to leave the body is by conversion to retinoic acid, the body is always producing 13-cis, along with other analogues during excretion.
https://www.jlr.org/content/31/2/175.long
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.nut.2008.05.022
Results and conclusion:This study shows that consumption of carrot juice containing high concentrations of the provitamin A carotenoid-carotene results in slightly, non-significantly increased plasma ROL concentrations and strong,significantly increased (almost double, from 1.20 to 2.00 ng/mL) plasma concentrations of ATRA, whereas consumption of tomato juice and spinach powder results in no significant alteration in concentrations of plasma ROL and ATRA.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01977634
The concentrations of retinoic acid compounds were monitored by a newly developed highly sensitive HPLC procedure in plasma of six volunteers who received 833 IU vitamin A per kg body weight per day during a 20-day period. There was a significant increase of alltrans-retinoic acid (two-fold), 13-cis-retinoic acid (7-fold) and 13-cis-4-oxoretinoic acid (5-fold) over endogenous plasma levels of these retinoids. The same compounds had previously been found after treatment with the teratogenic drug isotretinoin (Roaccutan, Accutane). Our results raise the possibility that high vitamin A intake may carry a teratogenic risk attributable to increased levels of retinoic acid compounds generated from retinol by metabolic processes.
This man is Jesus right here and everything he said is on point.
I've been on this diet for 6 months and im noticing a worsening of symptoms like depression, just like what I felt after I stopped accutane so it must be all that crap leaving my liver.
Also: Did accutane trigger balding (MPB) in anyone here on this forum? I am so afraid it might have done so for me...
2 minutes ago, Calcified said:@eliburgiI can say that retinyl palmitate does elevate my retinol levels, but it takes alot of it, I took it for a while, maybe my liver was empty, I just don't know.
@Calcified When did you try that? How long after accutane?
@under_towI remain sceptical. But it is good that different methods are being tried out. For me tho, only the raw/fasting or, since you have success with it, VA detox seem like the way to go. Keep us updated! Also if anyone else here tried to VA detox please share. Would be extremely helpful to us all ^^
11 minutes ago, eliburgi said:Also: Did accutane trigger balding (MPB) in anyone here on this forum? I am so afraid it might have done so for me...
@Calcified When did you try that? How long after accutane?
Yeah it does that, ive read it speeds it up. I started balding two years after Tane about 18 years old.
In the last 12 months I've been supplementing, I took accutane 20+ years ago.
I've never had a big vitamin A diet, I think I'm on the other side of the spectrum where vitamin A don't work properly and may be low.
To be very clear vitamin A is toxic, I don't don't know for me if it's a very risky bandaid or not.
This is why if people test their retinol levels it could be MASSIVELY beneficial, even anti A diet people.
Just to be clear my retinol levels DROP FAST without supplementation.
18 minutes ago, Calcified said:Yeah it does that, ive read it speeds it up. I started balding two years after Tane about 18 years old.
In the last 12 months I've been supplementing, I took accutane 20+ years ago.
I've never had a big vitamin A diet, I think I'm on the other side of the spectrum where vitamin A don't work properly and may be low.
To be very clear vitamin A is toxic, I don't don't know for me if it's a very risky bandaid or not.
This is why if people test their retinol levels it could be MASSIVELY beneficial, even anti A diet people.
Just to be clear my retinol levels DROP FAST without supplementation.
And how long did it the balding process take :O? The weird thing is i started losing my thick hair 2 months after stopping accutane. It fell out like telogen effluvium (sudden loss of lots of hair daily). I found white hair on my head which I never saw before. And the sad thing is most of the hair instantly grew back thinner. Like the kind of hair a person grows after 15 years of balding. Now my hairline is receding badly and the top and sides of the head are also getting thinner. I dont know what to do, because I always had such thick hair (like my father!) and it was the thing I liked the most in my appearance. Now it feels like a good friend leaving me ...
Hmm, I see. Maybe we rly should all test our retinol levels. And maybe people are successful with fasting bec it depletes retinol...