On 3/2/2019 at 5:15 PM, IhateAccutane said:

5years passed since my last pill.
I took 40mg/day for two months in 2014 Jan/Feb.
Stopped after I realised that I could not achieve erection.
Other symptoms started after I stopped Accutane.

This is the list of my problems ever since:

- ED: Still no connection between penis and brain.
- Shrunken genitals
- No Libido
- Dead flaccid
- No pleasure during ejaculation.
- Tinnitus: still there, biggest concern after ED.
- Vision problems: Floaters are gone by 99%. But I am still night blinded and have some visual snow and double vision.
- Tremors: Gone
- Weak urine: Still there
- Hair condition: I dont have menopause hair anymore.
- Dry eyes, nose, mouth: I never had these.
- Panic attacks, anxiety, suicidal state: Gone
- Energy: Better, just as pre accutane.
- Flexibility: Improved, %80

6 years passed since my last pill.
I took 40mg/day for two months in 2014 Jan/Feb.
Stopped after I realised that I could not achieve erection.
Other symptoms started after I stopped Accutane.

This is the list of my problems ever since:

- ED: Still weak connection between penis and brain.
- Shrunken genitals
- 10% Libido(Sometimes better)
- Dead flaccid especialy after hard gym workout
- No pleasure during ejaculation. (Sometimes better)
- Tinnitus: still there, biggest concern after ED.
- Vision problems: Floaters are gone by 99%. But I am still night blinded and have some visual snow and double vision.
- Tremors: Gone
- Weak urine: Still there
- Hair condition: I dont have menopause hair anymore.
- Dry eyes, nose, mouth: I never had these.
- Panic attacks, anxiety, suicidal state: Gone
- Energy: Better, just as pre accutane.
- Flexibility: Improved, %80

So it is getting better right, IHateAccutane? If so that is good news. Did you do/try anything special this past year? Have you tried fasting?

I strongly believe that there is a cure. And fasting has to do with it. After all, fasting is part of being a human (science shows this now; great healers and spiritual people knew all along!). Lets let the body clean itself from the mess accutane has made. I dont think any pill will ever cure this. We have to look more into nature and keep it simple. Just my cents tho.

Fasting really helps, completed 3,7,10, and 20 day water fasts while still going into work, it is not as hard as people think. Worst part is the insane food craving and daydreaming of food. Fasting helps to quickly dump vitamin A from the body, but you need to be replete in certain minerals(molybdenum is very important) beforehand, taking low dose Bcomplex will be helpful too, along with electrolytes.

5 hours ago, IhateAccutane said:

6 years passed since my last pill.
I took 40mg/day for two months in 2014 Jan/Feb.
Stopped after I realised that I could not achieve erection.
Other symptoms started after I stopped Accutane.

This is the list of my problems ever since:

- ED: Still weak connection between penis and brain.
- Shrunken genitals
- 10% Libido(Sometimes better)
- Dead flaccid especialy after hard gym workout
- No pleasure during ejaculation. (Sometimes better)
- Tinnitus: still there, biggest concern after ED.
- Vision problems: Floaters are gone by 99%. But I am still night blinded and have some visual snow and double vision.
- Tremors: Gone
- Weak urine: Still there
- Hair condition: I dont have menopause hair anymore.
- Dry eyes, nose, mouth: I never had these.
- Panic attacks, anxiety, suicidal state: Gone
- Energy: Better, just as pre accutane.
- Flexibility: Improved, %80

About tinnitus, you might want to look into this... https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/07/26/how-to-treat-tinnitus.aspx

Especially the part where it says excessive EMF exposure might account for this symptom. Tips to reduce it can be found here: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/01/15/health-effects-of-emf-exposure.aspx

One thing I always wanted to ask: is it possible that interrupting any Accutanetreatment when you are half there (let's say you needed to take for 8 months, but stopped at 4)might end up being worse than following to the end?

About the libido part, try Tribulus in capsules, it might really help. I know that for me it did, I experienced a noticeableincrease in the last months:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/tribulus-terrestris#section4

Peruvian maca is also recommended in this case: https://examine.com/topics/libido/
https://examine.com/supplements/maca/

Some users reported a dramatic change after taking these two, others didn't have much luck.

Thanks @under_tow for sharing your experience! Fantastic to hear such news

Did you drink fruit juices anytime during your water fast? Or really just plain water/tea? 

And for the electrolytes, pure coconut water would also be good I guess?  

6 hours ago, eliburgi said:

Thanks @under_tow for sharing your experience! Fantastic to hear such news

Did you drink fruit juices anytime during your water fast? Or really just plain water/tea? 

And for the electrolytes, pure coconut water would also be good I guess?  

They were pure water fasts.  I did complete a +50 day juice fast, but the juice I used was Bruess, which contains to many carotenoids to help, but I was unaware of the low vitamin A approach at the time.

I just used KCl, NaCl, and MgCl in mineral water, buying them in bulk is cheap.   Coconut might contain to many calories during a fast.

I've been doing the Vit a free diet for probably close to a year now. I am very sensitive to both retinol and carotenoids. Beta carotene triggers the worst headache that feel like an increase pressure in my brain but all vitamin a does the same to me so I HAVE to be on this diet. After about 6 months into it I started to develop a severe depression reminiscent of when I first took tane 20 years ago. I still have it and i'm having a hard time coping with it. I'm still sticking to the diet because I simply cannot tolerate any vitamin a. It's ridiculous and the worse part is this is not described in the medical literature so no one can help.

2 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:

I've been doing the Vit a free diet for probably close to a year now. I am very sensitive to both retinol and carotenoids. Beta carotene triggers the worst headache that feel like an increase pressure in my brain but all vitamin a does the same to me so I HAVE to be on this diet. After about 6 months into it I started to develop a severe depression reminiscent of when I first took tane 20 years ago. I still have it and im having a hard time coping with it. Im still sticking to the diet because I simply cannot tolerate any vitamin a. It's ridiculous and the worse part is this is not described in the medical literature so no one can help.

I am at 16 months vit A free, its a long haul, even without taking accutane, our liver and fat can store up to two years worth of vitamin A, and it is in all food, there is no such thing as deficiency. Overload of vitamin A is what causes acne in the first place, then we used mega doses of active vitamin A. Committed years to every supplement and diet after accutane, and nothing has helped liked removing vit A, patience is required as it very very slowly comes out of tissues, body knows its toxic in large amounts, hence why we have to capacity to stores very large amounts of it, protecting us from it. Hypothesis for PAS would be at least 2yrs vit A, to maybe get back close to baseline and real healing can begin.

The most important thing I have learned for detox is to keep the B vitamins coming in and getting molybdenum, both are depleted on accutane. This is why beef, rice and beans should be apart of all your meals if you can. Beans are super important, soluble fiber to mop VA in our bile, and lots of Bs and molybdenum to keep the ADH and ALDH systems running

Detox path:

alcohol -> ADH -> aldehyde -> ALDH -> acetic acid

carotenoids(plant) -> retinol(eggs, dairy, etc) -> ADH -> retinaldehyde -> ALDH -> retinoic acid (accutane) -> Glucuronidation

ADH = alcohol dehydrogenase, ALDH = aldehyde dehydrogenase

Staple low VA foods:
lean beef, lean chicken/turkey, egg white, non fatty fish, nuts
high oleic safflower oil, coconut oil, olive oil
white/brown rice, potato, beans, oatmeal, white corn, non-fortified flours, whole bread/pasta

cauliflower, turnip, celery root, parsnip, onion, garlic, radish, olives, pickles, white cabbage, celery
banana, grapes, peeled apples, pineapple, raisins, dates, blueberries, raspberries, strawberry, cherry
Apple juice, grape juice, lemonade, coconut milk, most rice/almond milk is VA fortified
Sugars, maple, honey, brown/white

Completely avoid:
Dairy, milk, cream, cheese, yogurt, kefir... egg yolks
Pork (pigs store vitA in fat like humans)
Leafy greens, peppers, tomato, broccoli, brussel sprouts, asparagus, etc... bright spices
All orange, red, yellow, fruits and vegg
Any food/supplement with added vitamin A *palmitate*

Sunscreen and skin creams, so many have VA added

@MonsterDiesel sorry to hear the depression is back, hoping it will gradually lift. Since we are low VA lots of retinoic acid will be circulating for excretion, suspect that would be the cause.

Monster, I'm curious if when you say youre sensitive to beta carotene, if it's beta carotene supplements or something like carrot juice or sweet potatoes.

I can't tolerate retinol rich beef liver or cod liver oil. Can't tolerate retinol supplements. Can't tolerate natural or synthetic beta carotene supplements. What I CAN tolerate and absolutely CRAVE are whole food sources of beta carotene, such as carrot juice, sweet potatoes, etc. Could literally never get sick of drinking carrot juice.

So is it beta carotene supplements or whole food beta carotene sources you're referring to?

Acne is caused by an imbalance of intestinal bacteria, particularly during puberty. The best course of action for anyone suffering from acne would be to decrease added sugar intake and increase probiotic rich foods such as yogurt, kefir, etc. Would've been nice if my doctor had told me this way back when.

Undertow, I don't know how you can tolerate b complex. B2, b5, b6, and biotin are all scientifically proven dht inhibitors. Whenever I try b complex it's always a horrible hormonal reaction due to the dht inhibitors in the b complex. B complex also gives me insane fat cravings. No way I'd ever be able to do a b complex for my recovery.

And I don't see how you can survive without whole food beta carotene intake. Vitamin A is an ESSENTIAL nutrient. Humans need it to survive. Accutane is NOT vitamin A. I wouldn't be able to make it without whole food beta carotene intake. I always start feeling tons WORSE if I skip whole food beta carotene sources. I don't know how you're still alive, depriving your body of something it needs to survive.

29 minutes ago, under_tow said:

Staple low VA foods:
lean beef, lean chicken/turkey, egg white, non fatty fish, nuts
high oleic safflower oil, coconut oil, olive oil
white/brown rice, potato, beans, oatmeal, white corn, non-fortified flours, whole bread/pasta

cauliflower, turnip, celery root, parsnip, onion, garlic, radish, olives, pickles, white cabbage, celery
banana, grapes, peeled apples, pineapple, raisins, dates, blueberries, raspberries, strawberry, cherry
Apple juice, grape juice, lemonade, coconut milk, most rice/almond milk is VA fortified
Sugars, maple, honey, brown/white

Completely avoid:
Dairy, milk, cream, cheese, yogurt, kefir... egg yolks
Pork (pigs store vitA in fat like humans)
Leafy greens, peppers, tomato, broccoli, brussel sprouts, asparagus, etc... bright spices
All orange, red, yellow, fruits and vegg
Any food/supplement with added vitamin A *palmitate*

Sunscreen and skin creams, so many have VA added

 

@MonsterDiesel sorry to hear the depression is back, hoping it will gradually lift. Since we are low VA lots of retinoic acid will be circulating for excretion, suspect that would be the cause.

Thanks for you input. I am a lot more sensitive to Vitamin than most here. Of the items you listed, I cannot eat any fruits and vegetables as I react to the carotenoids. My diet consists of white potatos, white rice, black beans, mushrooms, beef, lamb, egg whites (careful with biotin deficiency as even cooked egg whites can still bind biotin - which is already low in accutane patients). I can eat some nuts as well like Brazilian, almonds (no skin) and hazelnuts. That's about it. I'm also likely celiac so I don't tolerate any grains whatsoever. Brown rice doesn't always agree with me. White seems ok some of the time.

I know I am overloaded with vitamin a. I took it in supplemental form years ago when I thought my sx were due to vitamin a deficiency. Also used cod liver oil, went paleo (lots of eggs, bacon, dairy) and two years ago went on Keto (more veggies than I should have). The keto diet made me realize I couldn't tolerate spinach and other high beta carotene vegetables. Raisins are the worst - instant headache.

Chicken also hasvitamin a in the skin and meat and so do all fish- even the non-oily ones. So I literally cannot eat anything else or I get these headaches and feel unwell.

Coconut products supposedly help recycle vitamin a so they shouldbe avoided. Exercise and alcohol both deplete vitamin a. Taurine binds to vitamin a and excretes it via bile.

I just can't figure out the depression. I'm also prone to cholinergic induced depression so vitamins that increase acetylcholine I cannot tolerate (B1, B5). Also, anything that adds or depletes methyl groups I cannot tolerate so no B3, B9, B12.

Lately, I'm dealing with a lot of cramps even though I've been using magnesium for 15+ years. Vitamin D is low but taking it causes me to cramp up (unless I take it with Boron). I'm afraid I'm causing undue calcification all over so I just don't take it. To counter this, I'm trying very low doses of Vitamin K2 Mk7. (15 drops give 150% rda -> I take 1 drop daily). I've had bad reactions to MK4 in the past.

28 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:

Monster, I'm curious if when you say youre sensitive to beta carotene, if it's beta carotene supplements or something like carrot juice or sweet potatoes.

I can't tolerate retinol rich beef liver or cod liver oil. Can't tolerate retinol supplements. Can't tolerate natural or synthetic beta carotene supplements. What I CAN tolerate and absolutely CRAVE are whole food sources of beta carotene, such as carrot juice, sweet potatoes, etc. Could literally never get sick of drinking carrot juice.

So is it beta carotene supplements or whole food beta carotene sources you're referring to?

Acne is caused by an imbalance of intestinal bacteria, particularly during puberty. The best course of action for anyone suffering from acne would be to decrease added sugar intake and increase probiotic rich foods such as yogurt, kefir, etc. Would've been nice if my doctor had told me this way back when.

@Aaron76I'm referring to food sources. I cut out carrots and orange fruits/vegetables years ago before I understood any of this because they caused severe headaches, joint pain, etc. This is 10 years ago. Over the years, I've been cutting out everything else when I notice symptoms after consuming them. Latest is pecans. That red color they have is caused by carotenoids -> headaches. Even potatos, I can only tolerate Russet potatos. The rest give me headaches.

I think accutane affected the way our bodies handle Vitamin a making even small amounts toxic. I recommend you avoid all of it. I got into the sweet potato bandwagon too for years -> mistake. You wont feel worse avoiding these foods but you wont feel better eating them.

Monster, I believe the synthetic isolate supplements are doing you more harm than good. I'd like you to try supplementing with organic ginger capsules and organic chlorella tablets, with organic bananas and apricots as staple foods.

Chlorella is an amazing detoxifier, maybe the most powerful detoxifier on the planet. I believe chlorellas detox ability will negate and eliminate your beta carotene sensitivity. Accutane has made our bodies extremely yin. We need to get more yang. Ginger supplements can get the body back to a more yang state. Bananas provide the potassium and b6 needed for lymphatic drainage.

1 minute ago, Aaron76 said:

Monster, I believe the synthetic isolate supplements are doing you more harm than good. I'd like you to try supplementing with organic ginger capsules and organic chlorella tablets, with organic bananas and apricots as staple foods.

Chlorella is an amazing detoxifier, maybe the most powerful detoxifier on the planet. I believe chlorellas detox ability will negate and eliminate your beta carotene sensitivity. Accutane has made our bodies extremely yin. We need to get more yang. Ginger supplements can get the body back to a more yang state. Bananas provide the potassium and b6 needed for lymphatic drainage.

You must have misunderstood. I used the supplements a decade ago. I only use magnesmium, pycnogenol and biotin (I have very obvious biotin deficiency symptoms and Accutane lowers biotinidase). I've eated ginger by the pound but it makes me feel lethargic for days after. Chlorella I also used in the past but it's rich in carotenoids so it's no good now. Spirullina gave me a ton of energy and focus but I also get headaches from these. I can't consume bananas and apricots. Yellow -> carotenoids.

Try me. I've been at this a very looooong time. I'm also the guy that a liver biopsy.

10 minutes ago, MonsterDiesel said:

Thanks for you input. I am a lot more sensitive to Vitamin than most here. Of the items you listed, I cannot eat any fruits and vegetables as I react to the carotenoids.

Very understandable, read lots of other low VA testers, have similar experiences with the amounts of VA they can intake. Hoping this will gradually shift as you get lower and lower in stored VA and will be able to add back in foods you enjoy. I used to have major issues with brown rice and beans, and now can eat them again without distress. Retinoic acid seems to give the digestive system a chemical peel, like topical cosmetic retinoids, slow process to rebuild, but tough when in low VA detox still. Taking extra potassium in salt form(No-Salt) could help with cramping.

6 minutes ago, MonsterDiesel said:

I'm also the guy that a liver biopsy.

Did this show as fatty liver with retinyl ester overload? This is the gold standard test for vitamin A toxicity.

The magnesium, pycnogenol, and biotin is what scares me. I have bad reactions to all of those. I react badly to anything synthetic isolate. I can only do whole food items.

I just feel like we need to get our bodies more yang and less yin, and we need to be in an alkaline state also. Right now I'm supplementing with organic ginger and chlorella, and the ginger seems to have eliminated the insane fat cravings I was dealing with, likely because it has a yang effect. Will update here periodically.

1 minute ago, under_tow said:

Very understandable, read lots of other low VA testers, have similar experiences with the amounts of VA they can intake. Hoping this will gradually shift as you get lower and lower in stored VA and will be able to add back in foods you enjoy. I used to have major issues with brown rice and beans, and now can eat them again without distress. Retinoic acid seems to give the digestive system a chemical peel, like topical cosmetic retinoids, slow process to rebuild, but tough when in low VA detox still. Taking extra potassium in salt form(No-Salt) could help with cramping.

You seem very knowledgeable of this stuff. Would like to hear about what else you're doing and what you've tried that has helped.

On 3/6/2020 at 10:41 PM, MonsterDiesel said:

You seem very knowledgeable of this stuff. Would like to hear about what else you're doing and what you've tried that has helped.

Biggest thing was getting the first year of zero VA done(beef/rice only for every meal), next was making sure Bs and molybdenum are in the diet in as big amounts as you can get, also avoiding alcohol as it is prioritize over retinol in detox. In winter now, but next is as much full body sun as you can get for as long as you can get every day. In the end I think it is time under low VA, there is no quick fix to get it out, except maybe donating blood as often as possible.

This protocol to activate B2 was helpful(as it activates B1 and B12), but I think food is the way to go: Activate B2 protocol (low dose minerals)

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Monster I believe once you eliminate the isolate supplements, a significant amount of issues will resolve. Isolates do the body more harm than good.

2 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:

Monster I believe once you eliminate the isolate supplements, a significant amount of issues will resolve. Isolates do the body more harm than good.

Thanks. I'll consider this.

Just posted today, someone who has not taken accutane, just regular western diet, 45 is still very high, getting down to 20 probably allows for real healing to begin, youthful serum levels.

Serum VA levels

labs are in ug/dl:

4 months: 68

8 months: 65

12 months: 62

16 months: 45

4 minutes ago, under_tow said:

Biggest thing was getting the first year of zero VA done(beef/rice only for every meal), next was making sure Bs and molybdenum are in the diet in as big amounts as you can get, also avoiding alcohol as it is prioritize over retinol in detox. In winter now, but next is as much full body sun as you can get for as long as you can get every day. In the end I think it is time under low VA, there is no quick fix to get it out, except maybe donating blood as often as possible.

This protocol to activate B2 was helpful(as it activates B1 and B12), but I think food is the way to go: Activate B2 protocol (low dose minerals)

 

Have you read Grant's free ebooks( https://ggenereux.blog/my-ebooks/) ?

You can join the low VA forum here, if not already on it: https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/

What's your source of molybdenum? I don't react well to B-complex supplements so I have to rely on food for these. I also just started using red light therapy. I live in the NE and don't get out much. Suspectdepression could be due to SAD.

Just now, under_tow said:

Just posted today, someone who has not taking accutane, just regular western diet, 45 is still very high, getting down to 20 probably allows for real healing to begin, youthful serum levels.

Serum VA levels

labs are in ug/dl:

4 months: 68

8 months: 65

12 months: 62

16 months: 45

Holy cow. What's the range and what exactly is the test you're doing? I've been wanting to test Vitamin a but unlikely that a Doc will prescribe it. I'm happy to do this on my own.

Just now, MonsterDiesel said:

What's your source of molybdenum? I don't react well to B-complex supplements so I have to rely on food for these. I also just started using red light therapy. I live in the NE and don't get out much. Suspectdepression could be due to SAD.

Tested with molybdenum salts in the B2 protocol and it seemed helpful. But now since I can consume beans again, I am using them with every meal, black, white and lima bean mix, also using sprouted wheat bread. These should provide the minerals and Bs. I had to start very low intake and work up. Wonder if you could start extremely low amounts and creep them up. Bs and molybdenum and critical in the pathways to get VA to retinoic acid and on to excretion via glucuronidation.

I agree with the lack of sun and SAD, I am in the NE as well, and I am very wary of sup'd vit D either oral or topical.

These are the mineral salts I tested

https://bodybio.com/products/molybdenum-7-liquid-mineral-2oz

https://bodybio.com/products/selenium-8-liquid-mineral-2oz

Accutane does two fundamental things to the body. It makes it extremely yin. And it makes it extremely acidic. Bring the body back to a more yang and alkaline state and you recover from accutane. Isolate supplements are yin.

26 minutes ago, MonsterDiesel said:

Holy cow. What's the range and what exactly is the test you're doing? I've been wanting to test Vitamin a but unlikely that a Doc will prescribe it. I'm happy to do this on my own.

This is from a poster on Grant's forum, but remember this is non-accutane user, I suspect that us accutane users are much worse off.

This is a serum retinol test, standard range (ug/dL: 20.1 - 62.0) if in the States check with Labcorp, they offer it.

I suspect though that above 30 is probably on the way to toxic.

Anyone with acne should get this test, you will be in toxic range, should be the standard test for acne.

6 minutes ago, Aaron76 said:

Accutane does two fundamental things to the body. It makes it extremely yin. And it makes it extremely acidic. Bring the body back to a more yang and alkaline state and you recover from accutane. Isolate supplements are yin.

What about drinking alkaline water? I heard some conflicting opinions (like this one)claiming it'sjust a fad and might end up being worse (in health terms) for some people. Well, at least some say it's worse to do it with a machine rather than buying water that already has a higher pH, from the supermarket. The problem are the costs...

P.S. I found a thread discussing this here:

If the alkaline water is in a natural state from a natural source, good. If it's contrived alkaline water, loaded with synthetically added minerals, it's bad. The only natural alkaline water to avoid is Fiji. It has way too much silica compared with the calcium and magnesium content. There is an icelandic natural alkaline water with 8.8 pH. Probably the best one on the market.

So what is both yang and alkaline? Ginger, cinnamon, garlic, and Asian ginseng are four examples.i believe whole food alkaline omega 3 intake is critical as well. Probably the best source of whole food alkaline omega 3 is organic chlorella. Flax is way too estrogenic.

I disagree with testing and trying to manipulate this and that. Once you get to a more yang state with garlic ginger and or cinnamon supplements, you start to crave healthier alkaline foods.