Acne.org Products
so altered methylation also leads to a decrease in cAMP. In addition, folate has some direct actions in the production and maintenance of cAMP and we know accutane impairs methylation and folate status.
The effect of folic acid on cAMP-elicited cAMP production
And Vitamin A is required for testosterone production. Downstream effects involve cAMP signaling.
QuoteEvidenceof a role forretinoic acid(vitamin A-acid) in the maintenance oftestosteroneproduction in male rats.
Abstract
Animals maintained on retinol (vitamin A-alcohol)-deficient diets exhibit testicular atrophy and loss of the germinal epithelium.Retinoic acid(vitamin A-acid), when fed to retinol-deficient animals, does not prevent these lesions and had thus been thought not to play a role in the tests. Serumtestosterone(T) levels, determined by RIA, in retinol-deficient rats were determined to be significantly lower than in control rats. In contrast,retinoic acid-fed, retinol-deficient rats exhibited serum T concentrations similar to those of control rats. No difference in immunoreactive serum LH levels was observed in the three groups. The response of serum T to ip administration of LH in retinol-deficient animals relative to basal levels was similar to that observed in control as well asretinoic acid-fed, retinol-deficient rats. These results show that while basal T production in retinol-depleted rats is decreased, LH-stimulated T synthesis is unaffected. Furthermore,retinoic acid, in the absence of retinol, can support T production, suggesting that contrary to present dogma,retinoic acidplays a role in testis.
- PMID:
- 7227300
I added lipoic acid to forskolin to get an increased cAMP response. LA also does a bunch of other cool stuff. Might play around with adding folate again.Early methyl donor deficiency alters cAMP signaling pathway and neurosteroidogenesis in the cerebellum of female rat pups.
so altered methylation also leads to a decrease in cAMP. In addition, folate has some direct actions in the production and maintenance of cAMP and we know accutane impairs methylation and folate status.
The effect of folic acid on cAMP-elicited cAMP production
And Vitamin A is required for testosterone production. Downstream effects involve cAMP signaling.
QuoteEvidenceof a role forretinoic acid(vitamin A-acid) in the maintenance oftestosteroneproduction in male rats.
Abstract
Animals maintained on retinol (vitamin A-alcohol)-deficient diets exhibit testicular atrophy and loss of the germinal epithelium.Retinoic acid(vitamin A-acid), when fed to retinol-deficient animals, does not prevent these lesions and had thus been thought not to play a role in the tests. Serumtestosterone(T) levels, determined by RIA, in retinol-deficient rats were determined to be significantly lower than in control rats. In contrast,retinoic acid-fed, retinol-deficient rats exhibited serum T concentrations similar to those of control rats. No difference in immunoreactive serum LH levels was observed in the three groups. The response of serum T to ip administration of LH in retinol-deficient animals relative to basal levels was similar to that observed in control as well asretinoic acid-fed, retinol-deficient rats. These results show that while basal T production in retinol-depleted rats is decreased, LH-stimulated T synthesis is unaffected. Furthermore,retinoic acid, in the absence of retinol, can support T production, suggesting that contrary to present dogma,retinoic acidplays a role in testis.
- PMID:
- 7227300
I added lipoic acid to forskolin to get an increased cAMP response. LA also does a bunch of other cool stuff. Might play around with adding folate again.
QuoteVitamin A and retinoic acid stimulate within minutes cAMP release and growth hormone secretion in human pituitary cells.
Abstract
In order to gain a better understanding on the possible role of vitamin A (VA) and retinoic acid (RA) on human growth hormone (GH) secretion, we used the physiological model of pituitary cells perifusion. In perifused cells from pituitary somatotropic adenomas, RA induced within minutes a peak of GH secretion. This effect was dose dependent, maximal effect being observed with 100 nM. The GH release was associated with a discharge of cAMP delayed by 4 to 8 minutes relative to the GH surge. Similar results were obtained after VA stimulation. Our observations provide the first evidence of an action of VA and RA on cAMP production. They suggest a role of RA and VA in the regulation of human GH secretion via the cAMP dependent pathway.
- PMID:
- 8768885
Again, no vitamin A, no cAMP. In us, no properly working vitamin A system = no or less cAMP activity = system failure.
Danger, Will Robinson.
1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:Are you saying to supplement with Vit A or Beta Carotene??
No. Heck no. I'm saying that raising cAMP through other means might be a way to activate the beneficial pathways of vitamin A without using it.
2 minutes ago, MonsterDiesel said:No. Heck no. I'm saying that raising cAMP through other means might be a way to activate the beneficial pathways of vitamin A without using it.
Has this study been posted before? Is this a mechanism we can take advantage of?
QuoteAretinoic acidreceptor alpha antagonist selectively counteractsretinoic acideffects.
Abstract
Retinoic acid(RA) exerts its pleiotropic effects on cell growth and differentiation through the activation of a family of transcription factors-the RA receptors (RARs). Three subtypes of these receptors exist, RAR alpha, RAR beta, and RAR gamma. The receptors are differentially expressed in different cell types and stages of development, suggesting that they may regulate different sets of genes. We have identified a synthetic retinoid with the characteristics of a selective RAR alpha antagonist. This antagonist counteracts RA effects on HL-60 cell differentiation and on B-lymphocyte polyclonal activation. Beyond its potential practical relevance, this and other specific antagonists will be useful to dissect the RAR system and to assign to one given receptor each of the many RA-regulated functions.
QuoteIdentification ofretinoic acidas an inhibitor of transcription factor Nrf2 through activation ofretinoic acidreceptor alpha.
Abstract
Isothiocyanates and phenolic antioxidants can prevent cancer through activation of Nrf2 (NF-E2 p45-related factor 2), a transcription factor that controls expression of cytoprotective genes through the antioxidant response element (ARE) enhancer. Using a human mammary MCF7-derived AREc32 reporter cell line, we now report that all-transretinoic acid(ATRA), and otherretinoic acidreceptor alpha (RARalpha) agonists, markedly reduces the ability of Nrf2 to mediate induction of ARE-driven genes by cancer chemopreventive agents including the metabolite of butylated hydroxyanisole, tert-butylhydroquinone (tBHQ). The basal and tBHQ-inducible expression of aldo-keto reductase (AKR) AKR1C1 and AKR1C2 genes, which are regulated by Nrf2, was also repressed by ATRA in AREc32 cells. Antagonists of RARalpha augmented induction of ARE-driven gene expression by tBHQ, as did knockdown of RARalpha by using RNAi. The expression of the ARE-gene battery was increased in the small intestine of mice fed on a vitamin A-deficient diet, and this increase was repressed by administration of ATRA. By contrast, in the small intestine of Nrf2 null mice, the expression of ARE-driven genes was not affected by vitamin A status. In MCF7 cells, ATRA did not block the nuclear accumulation of Nrf2 but reduced the binding of Nrf2 to the ARE enhancer as a consequence of forming a complex with RARalpha. These data suggest that cross-talk between Nrf2 and RARalpha could markedly influence the sensitivity of cells to electrophiles and oxidative stressors and, as a consequence, to carcinogenesis.
We know retinoic acid causes cytotoxicity in part by inhibiting Nrf2 and all the downstream antioxidants. It inhibits Nrf2 by activating RAR alpha. From the study above, a RAR alpha antagonist can counteract these effects.Can we use aRAR alpha antagonist and counteract the negative effects?
Theretinoic acidreceptor alpha antagonist from the study above is
Ro 41-5253
On 10/7/2018 at 6:20 AM, Fchawk said:Mymain point is don't avoid it and vitamin A, because Isotretinoin is not vitamin A, and infact can cause vitamin A deficiency.Isotretinoin-Induced Night Blindness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533586/Oral isotretinoin, neuropathy and hypovitaminosis A
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2230.2008.03171.x
The second link has case studies which suggests between Vitamin A deficiency pre treatment and suffering depression due to accutane, and by supplementing vitamin A mid treatment helped.Beta-carotene is safer than straight vitamin A supplementation, so while I used vitamin A myself, BC is probs safer because it is only converted if your body recognises a need for vitamin A (though it is possible isotretinoin reduces conversion because it fucks with the body in mysterious ways, in that case Beta Carotene would just act as an antioxidant)
Funnily enough - SClippers, who boasted a near full recovery a year or 2 ago, attributed this to starting to eat a high leafy green diet, (obviously getting plenty of beta carotene) after spending years avoiding vitamin A. He felt everything begin to get better and even had oily skin again, instead of the painfully dry skin.
I've avoided Vitamin A for the most part since accutane (i even supplemented vitamin A for a bit shortly after) and my dry skin has gotten worse and worse over the years. I may start supplementing beta carotene to see how i get on. Most of my symptoms are that of vitamin A deficiency, down to the bumps on the backs of my arms (they appeared whilst on accutane and have been there for nearly a decade since).
Yeah Im reconsidering my options with Vit A too
I have recently pointed out though that when having Kinesiology, Vit A did stress my body out when tested with the vile
Having done some work over last few weeks I am now responding better to it - both A and Beta Carotene arent stressing me out - this could only be the result of Tane messing things up!!
Im now curious on how Id respond supplementing BC but Im trying to avoid self diagnosing which up till recently has been out of control for me, definitely something Im trying to avoid. Id run it by practitioner and get their thoughts firstly
Currently Im responding well to both B12 & ALA which Ill continue.
Im also curious about this Forskolin product but will see what others have to say before I look into it more. This cAMP is a new area of inquiry thats for sure!!
14 hours ago, TrueJustice said:No worries
How well are you responding to Forskolin so far?
The same. Two drops a day and I'm functional. By next morning I am crashing all over again and two drops later I am back to normal. There seems to be a process that is "turned off" that forskolin temporarily restores. Add it doesn't cause tolerance (found a study on this last night but did not save).
I added ALA and this seems to work well together. Found more mental clarity after adding ALA.
This is not a cure a far but it's definitely better that injections every 3 days. I still have to do PCT to wake up the boys but I'm interested to see how Forskolin will affect me after that.
On 10/13/2018 at 12:00 AM, TrueJustice said:As always, I appreciate the science but what to do about it....
What are you doing for your gut currently that you can recommend??
Maybe offer us something that even a gastroenterologist couldnt....
Most gastroenterologists are pretty limited in their duties. they perform colonoscopies and endoscopies all day on mostly new or older patients to check for cancers.
Speaking of which they found a colon polyp on one of my last visits, which might be pretty rare for my age. (now I get to go again in 5 years)
Ive had multiple local doctors now tell me I need to be at a university or clinic setting like Mayo, because its beyond their scope.
Multiple Associations Between a Broad Spectrum of Autoimmune Diseases, Chronic Inflammatory Diseases and Cancer
Id agree with you there, like Ive said many times - if a gastroenterologist doesnt find anything sinister as they put it, they let you go and its up to you to work on your gut health in your own time...,
Thats not to dismiss them in any way, they do an awesome job and save many lives but when it comes to discussing what Tane might have done to gut health they dont know - they kind of treat it as if youve smashed your gut health like an antibiotic and leave you to work it out for yourself
For me they did diagnose my reflux issue which Im now on top of but if I pressed them that I believe issue stems from Tane they cant offer me any insight unfortunately
22 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Yeah Im reconsidering my options with Vit A too
I have recently pointed out though that when having Kinesiology, Vit A did stress my body out when tested with the vile
Having done some work over last few weeks I am now responding better to it - both A and Beta Carotene arent stressing me out - this could only be the result of Tane messing things up!!
Im now curious on how Id respond supplementing BC but Im trying to avoid self diagnosing which up till recently has been out of control for me, definitely something Im trying to avoid. Id run it by practitioner and get their thoughts firstly
Currently Im responding well to both B12 & ALA which Ill continue.
Im also curious about this Forskolin product but will see what others have to say before I look into it more. This cAMP is a new area of inquiry thats for sure!!
I'm going to get some BC supplements and try them for a couple of months to see what happens. When I read about Vitamin A deficiency all of my skin symptoms match exactly.
Slow wound healing, improper keratinisation and skin scaling, bumps on the backs of arms, dry skin (severe).
I don't have any vision issues and although my vision isn't the best at night, I wouldn't classify it as night blindness, although it has got worse in the past few years.
I just don't have normal skin anymore, I wouldn't even care about the scarring and redness if it just acted like normal skin and it wasn't wafer thin, painful and dry and affecting every aspect of my day. The only time im comfortable in my skin is at night, lathered in cream, looking like absolute crap when nobody can see me. It wasn't like this on accutane or for years after so i'm inclined to think avoiding vitamin A has just made it worse as the years have rolled on.
Yep me too!!
any wound healing is just horrendous
got a mosquito bite 3 months ago that I scratched a bit.....the red is still there, I get out of the shower and see it each morning - bloody crazy!!
The dryness - thats a whole other story....
No moisture at all in face or hair
30 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Yep me too!!
any wound healing is just horrendous
got a mosquito bite 3 months ago that I scratched a bit.....the red is still there, I get out of the shower and see it each morning - bloody crazy!!
The dryness - thats a whole other story....
No moisture at all in face or hair
Exact same here mate. My whole face is basically like your mosquito bite now though. 80% of it won't heal basically, it's as if the top layer of skin just won't form.
The more and more i read, the more it does sound like my body isn't getting enough Vitamin A to complete this process and that all these years I shouldn't have avoided it.
For about a year after accutane I was taking a strong multivitamin and whilst my skin was a little dry, I had periods of it being oily and it wasn't like it is now at all, nowhere close, everything seemed to heal quicker back then rather than slower, I think I had a really high skin cell turnover rate. Now it just seems as though it doesn't turnover at all. Every time I get a spot or whitehead now, the red mark doesn't heal over and just stays, so every time I get one it's devastating to me. It shouldn't be like this at all. Hopefully supplementing BC for 2 weeks shows some difference and I can pinpoint that being the issue. I'll keep you posted.
An update on the forskolin. It looks like I'm going to have to stop. I have a tendency to develop palpitations from stimulants (after I took Tane) which is why I don't drink coffee. It seems forskolin was not an exception. I go full on arrhythmia from DHEA, bitter orange, etc.
Did you work for testosterone? Yes. I could definitely feel it in terms of libido, muscle tone and great pumps at the gym. I got tested today and I'll post results in a couple of days. Keep in mind I just got off TRT and was in crash mode full on. This means my levels were rock bottom.
Stay tuned..
This is an idea of some of what ive been talking about. I've been looking at yeast colonization which any yeast colonization should be transient, whats not could possibly considered a undiagnosed disease.
Some of these pathogens might use coagulation factors as a means.
But to switch gears real quick, here's the same principle thought, except with bacteria.
Wednesday, October 10, 2018
NIH study finds probiotic Bacillus eliminates Staphylococcus bacteria
Additional studies of common supplement planned.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-probiotic-bacillus-eliminates-staphylococcus-bacteria
"One strategy to prevent Staph infections is to eliminateS. aureuscolonization. However, some decolonization strategies are controversial because they require considerable amounts of topical antibiotics and have limited success, partly because they target only the nose and bacteria quickly recolonized from the gut."
Most scholarly reviews of skinmicrobiotaconcentrate on understanding the .....Staphylococcus aureusalso secretes an arsenal of toxins thatdamagehost cells. .... The cutaneous effects ofisotretinoinand other vitamin A derivatives are...
The effects of systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic therapy on the microbial floras in patients with acne vulgaris.
Difference in microbial flora throughout the treatment period was detected at least among one of all culture samples of 15 (75%) and 5 (33%) patients in isotretinoin and antibiotic groups. There was statistically significant difference between two groups in means of alteration of the microbial flora (P = 0.013). The difference was definitely observed among nasal cultures (65%) in isotretinoin group and fecal cultures (20%) in the other. Staphylococcus aureus colonization was prominent in the microbial floras of nose and oropharynx
I am more so looking at this possibility with yeast, but being aware of this as well.
im just going to keep on rolling here. There is still a lot to parse.
Here is a example of genetics and the microbiome. One predicts the other.
Secretor Genotype (FUT2 gene) Is Strongly Associated with the Composition of Bifidobacteria in the Human Intestine
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3098274/
"Growing evidence shows that the composition and diversity of the microbiota in the human intestine can have a surprisingly strong impact on the well-being and health of the host."
Can Genetics Explain an Unhealthy Gut?
Recent research into genetics has revealed that our genetic makeup influences our gut health as much as diet and lifestyle.
Roughly 20% of people carry a variation of the FUT2 gene that does not allow the body to reveal its blood type in secretions and in the lining of the gut. (5) This 20%, called non-secretors, is also unable to house a robust community of bifidobacteria.
The FUT2 gene determines if we are vulnerable to:
- Autoimmune disorders like Crohn™s disease (mostly affecting the large intestine), celiac disease (affecting the small intestine), and type 1 diabetes (6)(7)(8)
- Inflammatory bowel disease
- Urinary tract infections (9)
- Candidiasis, or Candida overgrowth (10)(11)
- B12 deficiency and some forms of anemia (12)
[PMID 20570966
] Fucosyltransferase 2 (FUT2) non-secretor status is associated with Crohn's disease.
| 18.6% | Frequency |
Yeast-devouring gut bacterium may provide newCrohn's treatments. ... A new study now suggests this bacterium may provide the basis for new treatments for yeast infections and autoimmune diseases, such as Crohn's disease.Jan 8, 2015
Hi all,
how is everyone doing? I am still reading on a regular basis but have not posted for a while. I would be interested in a correlation, that I find very strange, can not explain myself, and what I experience ever since I have taken Accutane many years back.
Whenever I apply a moisturizer, skin oil or suncream to my skin I react with migraine like headaches. The level of pain depends on the type of cream. Suncream seems to be the worst one. My skin is super dry and sensitive to sun post Accutane but it is impossible for me to put moisturizer or sun protection on. I still do it from time to time when i can not avoid sun exposure e.g. family vacation in the mountains but I regret it every time. I never had this before accutane. I tried all kinds of creams, moisturizers and so on. Some hit me harder than others but bottom line is, that I have problems with all of them. The only solution for me is not to apply them.
I would be interested if someone of you made the same experiences or even found a solution to it.
Thanks
Roland
On 10/20/2018 at 8:43 PM, guitarman01 said:Secretor Genotype (FUT2gene) Is Strongly Associated with the Composition ofBifidobacteriain the Human Intestine
^This right here, could come from your mother's genetics as well, which could determine the amount of bifido colonization.
17 hours ago, Roland1968 said:Whenever I apply a moisturizer, skin oil or suncream to my skin I react with migraine like headaches.
to me the sensitive skin is a byproduct of something else going on. sensitive skin, sensitive nerves, sensitive eyes, sensitive blood vessels.
sensitive hair.
Postnatal colonization with human "infant-type"Bifidobacteriumspecies alters behavior of adult gnotobiotic mice
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0196510
im not diving into this right now, but you see on the most basic level there is a relationship.
Immunomodulation byBifidobacterium infantis35624 in the Murine Lamina Propria Requires Retinoic Acid-Dependent and Independent Mechanisms
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3660574/
New study shows health benefits of probiotic could extend to the entire body
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/msl-nss082208.php
Cork, Ireland - August 25, 2008 - Data from a recent study demonstrate the anti-inflammatory and pathogen protection benefits ofBifidobacterium infantis35624 a probiotic bacterial strain of human origin.
Nov 3, 2011 -Bifidobacterium infantis 35624administration induces Foxp3 T regulatory cells in humanperipheralblood: potential role for myeloid and...
Bifidobacterium infantis35624 modulates host inflammatory processes beyond the gut
Recently Ive been listening to experts say its all well and good to try and improve gut flora etc but most people need to fix Leaky Gut issues first!!
I totally agree and in fact Im of the opinion that most probiotics are a waste of time, youll get all the right bacteria from eating yoghurt and fermented foods etc
Having said that, using probiotics straight after using antibiotics isnt a bad idea to hit the gut hard but again, the big question is how to fix Leaky Gut?? - thats critical before we start anything else IMO
4 hours ago, Pido said:Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.
What are you doing to combat this??
Pls list some products that counteract an inhibitor drug
I think the actual reasons could go well beyond a 5ar inhibitor effect.
Microbial endocrinology: the interplay between the microbiota and the endocrine system
https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/39/4/509/2467625
"hormonal signaling have not yet been deciphered, specific changes in hormone levels correlate with the presence of the gut microbiota. The microbiota produces and secretes hormones, responds to host hormones and regulates expression levels of host hormones."
"We categorize these interactions by the different functions of the hormones, including those affecting behavior, sexual attraction, appetite and metabolism, gender and immunity. Future research in this area will reveal additional connections, and elucidate the pathways and consequences of bacterial interactions with the host endocrine system."
Microbial Endocrinology in the Microbiome-Gut-Brain Axis: How Bacterial Production and Utilization of Neurochemicals Influence Behavior
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828163/
The ability of bacterial pathogens to influence behavior has been recognized for decades, most notably bacteria that directly invade the nervous system.
However,
increasing evidence is mounting that microorganisms may directly interact with elements of the host's neurophysiological system in a noninvasive manner that ultimately results in modification of host behavior.
Hey guys, I haven't logged in here in a while, but I'm back.
My major symptoms back when I first posted were depression, fatigue, coated tongue, dry eyes (and floaters in vision), ed and low libido.
Sad to say I still have most (all?) of these symptoms. I have tried just about every supplement, probiotic, holistic cleanse, antidepressant, you fuckin name it, i went down a long road of trying to fix myself... and here i still am.
Here's the deal: it's been 13 years since I took accutane and can trace all of this back to right when i stopped taking it. I took a (imo) high dose for 5 months. 20mg scaled up to 60mg by the end.
Time seems to be healing me a bit, but i still use eyedrops for dry eye everyday, im still tired, my tongue is still coated and i have to scrape it almost every day.
The worst of this is the ed and low libido. This is the only thing that hasnt really been improving at all and its not an understatement to say it is ruining my life.
Now i've had more time and experience with this, it really seems that accutane does something to the pituitary gland. This is just a gut feeling i have, but the low libido and ed seem to really correspond to the pituitary. as well as fatigue, depression, etc.
See this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25721216/
i have had bloodwork done in the past, remember my test levels being low-ish but not low enough not to be "normal". ive also had an MRI done, and once again they didnt find anything abnormal...
that was a couple years ago, i might try to get a second opinion on the MRI focusing on the pituitary and plan to get more bloodwork to look at test levels AND prolactin (which can be a huge factor in these types of problems).
Long story short, i think this stuff fucks with the endocrine system, specifically the pituitary gland. that is my theory that i cant yet substantiate, but i plan on looking more into pituitary related hormone levels.
Also... Do we have a better place to discuss this stuff yet? A forum or something? Anything is better than this long ass thread.
You could be right!!
My kinesiologist picked up a few weeks ago that my melatonin is out of whack.
What regulates melatonin? Pineal gland!!
prob explains my light sensitivity and disturbed sleep patterns amongst other things.
He did some weird head adjustments that felt good but unfortunately Im nobetter to be truthful with regard to these issues
I see him again in 2 weeks. The B12 on the other hand has been very helpful and Im grateful for him putting me on it.