On 10/24/2018 at 4:33 PM, Pido said:

Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.

It seems so simple and something people discussed back at the beginning of this thread - There's got to be a way to re-activate or stimulate 5-AR.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14997014

My eyes are fine, only get slightly dry when it's really cold in winter, but the same can go for normal people too. it's just my skin that is devoid of moisture. Seems weird that it would be one without the other if it's solely due to 5-AR inhibition. Wouldn't both be affected if the mechanism was down to 5-AR?

On 10/24/2018 at 5:33 PM, Pido said:

Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.

But why is the effect permanent? Even years after isotretinoin eyes and skin remain dry.

I`ve took Accutane 30 mg per day about one year.
Now i`ve found this: https://www.drugs.com/answers/can-accutane-cause-leukemia-360619.html
Is it real? There is just coincidence or there are truth?

Also, how can i remove accutane completely from my body?
My blood results are just fine right now. But on the future ...

I mean there is no definitive correlation to anything, but I will say that Accutane is Pandora's box. The only people that are tolerant to these high amounts of retinoids are people of Scandinavian descent. The parent company is Swiss and they probably used Scandinavians throughout their clinical trials. (This is a good arguing point for any lawyer.)

Isotretinoin is capable of genetic transcription, and if high amounts of Vitamin A consumption is not in your lineage, then you are susceptible to abnormal changes, whatever they may be (i.e. cancer, vision, chrons, etc.)

I am western European Mediterranean based. I can tolerate large amounts of alcohol consumption. You give the same amount of alcohol to an Inuit, Native American, or Chinese, and you are gonna have problems. Point blank.

There's no direct link. It's just a fucked up drug that randomly affects those genetically susceptible. And Roche made their $$$, and that's all that matters.

I agree and understand what youre saying to a point though.

What if you experimented and gave Accutane to:

Vegan
Yogi
Buddhist monk
Healer

Who would overcome the side effects quicker?

Point being that yes its fucked many of us up but doesnt mean there can be no healing - people do overcome cancer!!

You could argue Tane has fucked up mostly westerners, why? Prob partly due to our diet Id imagine.

So yeah, whilst I agree its fucked many of us up, I cant say for sure we cant recover to some degree.

PS - Can someone shed some light with a follow up to the 5ar theory - we get the point but what are the recovery options after this??

If you think there is none - just say so pls - no BS

So i've been looking at short and medium chain fatty acids.
short chain mainly come from intestinal bacteria and medium chain are found in pretty much everymammalian based milk.
Those lacking adequate bifido bacteria (that produce scfa's) as infants show a much higher fecal ph.
Same with candida colonization, it raises stomach ph.
same with other pathogens they prefer a higher intestinal ph.

keywords relating to scfa
important in neurodevelopment, immune modulation, anti inflammatory, intestinal permeability
endotoxins, metabolic disease, and apparently much more.

Chapter Three-The Role of Short-Chain Fatty Acids in Health and Disease

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128001004000039?via%3Dihub

There is now an abundance of evidence to show that short-chainfatty acids(SCFAs) play an important role in the maintenance of health and the development of disease.

SCFAs are a subset of fatty acids that are produced by thegut microbiota

Given the vast effects of SCFAs, and that their levels are regulated by diet, they provide a new basis to explain the increased prevalence ofinflammatory disease[Edited link out]in Westernized countries

Short- and medium-chain fatty acids in energy metabolism: the cellular perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878196/

increasing attention is given to SCFAs with respect to their putative role in the pathogenesis of allergies, as well as autoimmune, metabolic, and neurological diseases

Contrasting metabolic effects of medium- versus long-chain fatty acids in skeletal muscle

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826680/
now when they talk about muscle you can also include the vascular system as well, including the heart. apparently some mct's are used as some types of treatments for
cardiomyopathy and have reversed hypertrophy in mice.

How does any of this relate to dry skin?
a new term for myself but I have found this to be true long before Accutane,

Thermoregulation.

or body heat. this could be isolated to your hands( peripheral ) head or entire body. This would also include blood perfusion.
This and the supply of nutrients and oxygen will probably make your skin appear healthier than anything else.

On 10/25/2018 at 12:21 AM, throwmeinthetrash said:

Also... Do we have a better place to discuss this stuff yet? A forum or something? Anything is better than this long ass thread.

Post-Accutane discussion forums:

Active discussion about post-drug symptoms from anti-androgenic substances: https://forum.propeciahelp.com/

This one is dedicated to post-Accutane sexual dysfunction, but isn't very active lately: https://pasforum.info/

Its been 25 years since treatment with isotretinoin and now have a lot of degeneration/calcification/folliculitis/pain. Normal or coincidence? Altered vitamin A metabolism?

Ever tried supplementing with Vit A drops or Beta Carotene??

just curious....

Not yet, awaiting blood test. Has anyone found relief with just supplementing vitamin A?

Youll be the first person ever if you get Vit A deficiency showing in a blood test. Done too many blood tests showing bugger all unfortunately

You said it yourself- metabolism!! If you can learn more about it than that might be the key.

Some say yes, they feel better after taking Vit A, others on the carnivore diet will say avoid it like the plague!!

Im undecided at this stage on Vit A - Im 20 years post poisoning and dont mind experimenting or at least was experimenting - My kinesiologist is leading me in what I take currently

I`m just very afraid after i read this: https://www.drugs.com/answers/can-accutane-cause-leukemia-360619.html

I got my blood test today, blood is fine, liver is is parameters.

I know that leukemia is something cannot be prevented and the cause are not well known, but what you suggest me to do now? I can`t live with that. I`m fine now, i don`t have any side effects.

I took two courses of accutane, first was about 1,5 years ago, about 5 months, which i took around 30 mg per day at 80 kg, and the second one was 7 months ago, about 5-6 months, which i took 40 mg per day, at same weight.

I will never use this drug again after i read that. I wouldn`t used it if i knew leukemia can be a very rare side effect.

So what you suggest me now to prevent this? I`m looking fordetoxifying my body with some supplements, in this way i hope i will eliminate entire accutane which is deposited on the fat, liver, colon. Any other suggestions?

@DogBB7 Honestly, your life will probably be better if you forget that you took Accutane and carry on as usual. If you didn't get permanent side effects from the drug, you're probably going to be just fine. No one can really say what the increase in risk for developing leukemia is after taking Accutane (probably extremely low) and no one can make a recommendation specifically on what to do to lower that risk after the fact.

Possibly just try eating clean and living clean. And count your blessings that you don't have severe permanent side effects,

You'll be fine, just get on with your life, forget this forum and forget you ever took accutane. If you've got no side effects to remind you that you took it, that should be pretty easy.

16 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Youll be the first person ever if you get Vit A deficiency showing in a blood test. Done too many blood tests showing bugger all unfortunately

You said it yourself- metabolism!! If you can learn more about it than that might be the key.

Some say yes, they feel better after taking Vit A, others on the carnivore diet will say avoid it like the plague!!

Im undecided at this stage on Vit A - Im 20 years post poisoning and dont mind experimenting or at least was experimenting - My kinesiologist is leading me in what I take currently

Ive been taking beta carotene for a week. Only difference I've noticed is that my skin is slightly less dry.........I think, I don't know if it's all in my head anymore.

No adverse affects what so ever. I think I made a mistake avoiding it for so many years, it's an essential vitamin, why should I not let my body have it ?

So I think this next post could have some importance as there are literally new discoveries every day on the subject.
This article is as old as yesterday.
We know acne doesn't come back in 80%+ in people treated with just one course of Accutane.

Gut bacteria recover from antibiotics, but they may take six months

But there's a drop in species diversity, and some species never reappear.

CATHLEEN O'GRADY-10/28/2018, 8:00 AM

and this was a 4 day treatment period...

To me, this is what's still left to be discovered. Everything is manipulating this.
Also forgot about when you see the word "gut", obviously it goes much beyond that.

Is someone going to bite the bullet and get a poo transplant???

Thats the ultimate gut healer Ive been told

If that dont work, what hope is there!!!

On 10/29/2018 at 11:41 PM, TrueJustice said:

Is someone going to bite the bullet and get a poo transplant???

Thats the ultimate gut healer Ive been told

If that dont work, what hope is there!!!

I read one guys accutane story who had this done, said it didn't really do anything.

My skin is definitely feeling a better texture even after such a short time taking BC.

23 hours ago, Justdry said:

I read one guys accutane story who had this done, said it didn't really do anything.

My skin is definitely feeling a better texture even after such a short time taking BC.

Interesting - please keep us updated on the progress with beta - Carotene

I finished my Accutane course a month ago. I was on Accutane for 7 months. 20mg for one month and 40mg for 6 months.
After finishing my course I experienced dizziness, confusion, blurry vision, fatigue, and low libido. I started panicking and researched what could be wrong. I had such a big shock when I found so many people with the same problems who have been going through this for years.

I then went on a diet but that didn't help. I did blood tests that showed I had low iron levels. I then supplemented with iron and went on a new diet with red meat (no vitamin a), rice, baked beans and sweet corn and fruits and vegetables. And after a week the dizziness was completely gone, my energy levels were back my erection was back and ejeculation was back to normal.
Now I'm back on my normal diet but the symptoms came back.

That diet had no vitamin a in it. Removing vitamin a was what helped me recover. But the moment I started eating normal again all my symptoms came back.

My gp also said that hair loss can be iron deficiency.

I'm going to try my diet again and see what happens. Does anyone know any other way to ease the symptoms atleast??

I posted this awhile back when I started a new topic.
https://www.honeycolony.com/article/accutane-cancer-acne/

How Accutane, A Cancer And Acne Drug, Threatened My Life

Fecal transplants are only fda approved in the states for c.diff.
Also doesn't seem very practical.
I think they are finding new comparable ways that don't require a transplant.
I dont really see this as a solution though because its not a targeted approach.

Thanks for that article- how accurate is it!!!
pretty much sums up our situation perfectly, right down to the frustration of communicating with doctors till youre blue in the face.
He also talks of the frustration of tests never finding anything but all the while he knows somethings wrong - GUT/DIET

Its becoming extremely clear that improving diet and gut health whilst not a complete cure goes a hell of a long way to improving our condition and making life bearable again.

18 hours ago, Gatu77777 said:

I finished my Accutane course a month ago. I was on Accutane for 7 months. 20mg for one month and 40mg for 6 months.
After finishing my course I experienced dizziness, confusion, blurry vision, fatigue, and low libido. I started panicking and researched what could be wrong. I had such a big shock when I found so many people with the same problems who have been going through this for years.

I then went on a diet but that didn't help. I did blood tests that showed I had low iron levels. I then supplemented with iron and went on a new diet with red meat (no vitamin a), rice, baked beans and sweet corn and fruits and vegetables. And after a week the dizziness was completely gone, my energy levels were back my erection was back and ejeculation was back to normal.
Now I'm back on my normal diet but the symptoms came back.

That diet had no vitamin a in it. Removing vitamin a was what helped me recover. But the moment I started eating normal again all my symptoms came back.

My gp also said that hair loss can be iron deficiency.

I'm going to try my diet again and see what happens. Does anyone know any other way to ease the symptoms atleast??

It's not the vitamin A - it's something else you're getting or doing on that diet - or something that doesn't agree with you when you go back to your normal diet. I can pretty much guarantee that it isn't the vitamin A in food causing the issues.

Many of us, like myself, have gone years without consuming vitamin A and it doesn't change a thing. You more than likely have vitamin A deficiency after accutane, so avoiding it will make things worse in the long run. I don't buy into the long term vitamin A toxicity theory, i think our bodies have a lack of it or don't know how to use it properly after accutane. It's an essential vitamin, we shouldn't stop consuming it.

11 hours ago, Justdry said:

It's not the vitamin A - it's something else you're getting or doing on that diet - or something that doesn't agree with you when you go back to your normal diet. I can pretty much guarantee that it isn't the vitamin A in food causing the issues.

Many of us, like myself, have gone years without consuming vitamin A and it doesn't change a thing. You more than likely have vitamin A deficiency after accutane, so avoiding it will make things worse in the long run. I don't buy into the long term vitamin A toxicity theory, i think our bodies have a lack of it or don't know how to use it properly after accutane. It's an essential vitamin, we shouldn't stop consuming it.

Hey man,

i have identical problem with skin. Top layer doesnt regenerate all. Tried all types of moist, doesnt help at all. (4 layers at night to not die for next day of dry) I just trying hyaluric acid as suplement and serum too.

i am not sure about high vit. A. Forx for me - i eat a lot of fish(tuna etc), o r pure omega in fish oil and my side eff were much worse. Not 100% sure it is from it, but i think my body is more sensitive on vit a. What beta carrotene you it? Suplement or from food?

23 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

I posted this awhile back when I started a new topic.
https://www.honeycolony.com/article/accutane-cancer-acne/

How Accutane, A Cancer And Acne Drug, Threatened My Life

Posted on Aug 27, 2017

Fecal transplants are only fda approved in the states for c.diff.
Also doesn't seem very practical.
I think they are finding new comparable ways that don't require a transplant.
I dont really see this as a solution though because its not a targeted approach.

That guy's story sounds close to mine. I have to try and avoid FODMAPS and don't digest fats well.

So many of my problems are related to leaky gut and it's frustrating that I had to discontinue the only supplement that has worked great for me (L-Glutamine) because it gave me short term neurological damage.

I've been looking into how L-Glutamine differs from other leaky gut supplements that are less effective and I wonder if it might come down to the fact that L-Glutamine transactivates the Epidermal Growth Factor receptor.

L-Glutamine protects tight junctions in Caco-2 cell monolayers and human colonic mucosa from acetaldehyde-induced permeability change and redistribution of tight junction and adherens junction proteins from the intercellular junctions. This protective effect of L-glutamine appears to be mediated by the transactivation of EGF receptor leading to activation of PKC and MAPK.

EGF is really important for the gut and actually there are anti-EGF therapies for fighting cancer that result in symptoms similar to mine like seborrheic dermatitis, folliculitis, and weird hair changes.

So far I've discovered that Lactobacillus Rhamnosus GG apparently can protect the intestine in a similar manner to L-glutamine so I've ordered some of that. Still on the lookout for other supplements that behave similarly.

I'm also going to be getting some Molybdenum which can clear out Acetaldehyde and see if it does anything. Acetaldehyde is the most toxic metabolite of ethanol and is also produced by bad bugs in your gut. It's quite bad for intestinal integrity and I know drinking alcohol has been terrible for my gut. Also, Acetaldehyde deactives delta-6-desaturase which causes problems with seborrheic dermatitis.

Yeah there definitely are some good supplements out there for the gut and in particular leaky gut.

Im also learning that its critical to get off dairy to properly heal the gut - Ive found this hard as I like milk in coffee and I like cheese.

Im with you on the alcohol, I wake up feeling horrible in the gut in particular the next day, even after only a few drinks.