49 minutes ago, Gladiatoro said:

My final post for you dummys go to whale.to it exposes the pHARMa industry for what it really is CORRUPT to the core as always read the book Virus Mania its on that web site free , a must read.

Someone needs to go to JAIL.

Pot call the kettle black much?

No amount of blatant corruption in the pharmaceutical industry legitimizes the total horse shit spewing from sites like whale.to or Natural News. But you've been going on and on and on and on about them for years without a break like a broken record. Almost every freaking post man.

Someone needs to find something better to do with their free time.

.

I tell yaDubyathese pHARMa $luts will put All of us in an early grave with their insane drugs , fact.

And might I add I dont think being chronically dehydrated is very healthy for anyone maybe 90 year old people but certainly NOT young people.

Re cap for nebs considering this drug , google dying for clear skin , then see if its worth it.

Best quote ever how the fuck did that pizza face get porcelain skin , I say there are consequences to thislook .

I thought it was a miracle drug until the severe lower back pain kicked in. My hair fell out and my penis stopped working did I mention mood swings , well it is chemotherapy after all what do you expect.

@Dubya_B
apoptosis. Haven't heard of that one. How does that theory go?
I'm afraid a large reason industries like big pharma have this dangerous corruption, despite being filled with a lot of people who mean well, is because of how they are set up. Research is expensive, drugs need to make money, anything out of the norm is doubted, and as long as someone is not significantly effected by the industry, they have no reason to investigate further. Most people just assume all is well, or atleast close to it. Maybe even among experts who know these things, what would you do about it? One day it may be that science prevails. Good science by inquisitive minds who are able to see what others have seen, but think what others never thought. But it will require a fundamental change in how the pharma industry works. Maybe even governmental change as well. Hope I get to see it, but I have my doubts too.

Just read this in a book, could this kind of apoptosis prove a problem to us?
"

7 hours ago, flynn said:

Yes RU has worked well for several PFS guys with their sexual sides. They reported improvements from doing 3 days 50mg each day. Interestingly, improvements began in some once they stopped treatment. I'm pretty sure RU is a more potent antagonist of the progesterone receptors than cortisol.

https://www.nature.com/articles/tp201398 Note that RU-486 was able to reverse HPA hyperactivity induced by isotretinoin and ATRA. I feel it's unlikely, but its possible that there are lasting effects of accutane on either glucocorticoid receptors and/or progesterone receptors in the brain. Leading to either increased or decreased sensitivity. Both of these things could affect dopamine function/response to rewarding stimuli and sexual function. Seem unlikely that these effects would persist as long as they have after treatment, but at this point. I feel its worth trying anything and everything.

PFS people have benefited sexually from RU-486, I haven't found any PAS people with sexual sides who have tried it. Seems like a no brainer to at least to give it a try.

5 hours ago, Dubya_B said:

The study was just plain awesome. Another one that shows clear correlation between Accutane's main active metabolite and depressive behavior. Good to see they even included controls to show the effects on cortisol receptors and that mifepristone enables negative feedback during treatment. Yeah, it's probably a long-shot, so tread carefully. I've had too many bad experiences with treatments to join you in this though.

.

Surely, the first step before even considering taking another drug is surely to first check if your own HPA axis is disturbed via blood work similar to that performed in the study?

This study (and most showing HPA dysregulation) are performed while accutane is administered , not after, especially years after.

Our persistent sides can be very annoying, but doing blind tests with potent drugs can also be dangerous.

5 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

Im not sure sterilizing the gut (and other locations) with antibiotics would be the right approach. It is hard to say though. It could help in resetting things? Antibiotics also have the potential to worsen the situation as well.
In cases of SIBO, gut dysbiosis, or staph colonization in the nose/sinuses, after treatment with antibiotics the bad bacteria or sickness usually comes back.
Maybe Its more along the lines of a protector missing, or something that normally would keep these imbalances in check.

Patients with systemic inflammatory diseases (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, chronic liver disease) commonly develop debilitating symptoms (i.e., sickness behaviors) that arise from changes in brain function. The microbiota-gut-brain axis alters brain function and probiotic ingestion can influence behavior.

Alterationsin flora most definitely can have epigenetic effects.

Gut indigenous microbiota and epigenetics - NCBI - NIH

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3744659/

by BA Shenderov - 2012 - Cited by 49- Related articles

Mar 28, 2012 -Recent omic-based studies have permitted to provide insights into how indigenous microbiota (includingprobiotics) sense and adapt to the gastrointestinal tract environment and regulate gene expression and post-translation modification of gene-determined final products in and outside the host intestinal...

Epigenome targeting by probiotic metabolites. - NCBI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21172038

by PV Licciardi - 2010 - Cited by 54- Related articles

Dec 21, 2010 -The precise molecular mechanisms mediating theseprobioticeffects are not well understood. Short-chain fatty acids such as butyrate are a class of histone deacetylase inhibitors important in theepigeneticcontrol of host cell responses. It is hypothesized that the biological function ofprobioticsmay be a...

Probiotics Improve Inflammation-Associated Sickness Behavior by Altering Communication between the Peripheral Immune System and the Brain

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/30/10821

^here you see changes in flora possibly affecting the peripheral nervous system.

This is possibly something to watch, maybe a better investment than 23andme.
https://ubiome.com/

Your microbiome is the unique collection of trillions of microorganisms in and on your body. They play a big part in your wellness.

There might be potential for fasting as well, incorporated into a bigger plan to turn around disease progression.

Fasting-induced changes in the expression of genes ... - NCBI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11714844

by KA Van der Lee - 2001 - Cited by 55- Related articles

Duringfasting, when overall metabolism changes, the contribution of glucose and fatty acids (FA) to cardiac energy production alters as well. Here, we examined if the heart is able to adapt to suchfasting-induced changes by modulation of itsgene expression. Rats were fed ad libitum or fasted for 46 h, resulting in reduced...

Fasting-like diet turns the immune system against cancer | USC News

https://news.usc.edu/103972/fasting-like-diet-turns-the-immune-system-against-cancer/

Jul 12, 2016 -The scientists found similar effects on melanoma. ... The scientists found that short-term starvation (a two-day,water-only diet) and the low-caloriefasting-like diet in mice reduced the expression of the HO-1 gene in the T regulatory cells. This change made it easier for the chemotherapy drugs to attack thecancer.

To be clear im not talking about probiotics when you see this word come up multiple times. You can have a inflammatory over response to probiotics, just like anything else.
One thought on this though is spore based bacillus.I know most of us havent found much success with traditional probiotics.

Somone asked a page or few back, did I take antibiotics?- I believe my dermatologist back in 1998 did try to clear up my skin with something prior to giving me Roaccutane - I believe it was an antibiotic of some sort and it didnt work hence we took a dreaded turn and went down the Accutane path.

So yeah, most likely I went on Accutane with an already messed up gut, did that expose me to the worst sides of Accutane.....possibly.

I dont know what to do with gut, for all I know my gut might be ok, not perfect but not too bad....I know I bang on a lot lately that youve got to clean up gut first and foremost but then I hear a report about how our issues could be deeper than just gut like changes in genes etc and I think well thats more likely why Im still fucked up 20 years later....its everything, its the gut, its depression and mood in head, the body is fatigued, light sensitivity etc etc. Then it dawns on you that its most likely epigenetic as our problems are system wide, even though I maintain that if your guts are messed up, better to fix that before anything else....

I just dont know, until someone flukes apon something and has a massive breakthrough we will never know. Lately the forum is swinging towards more discussion around sexual sides but other than fatigue I dont have issues; so much of the stuff mentioned just isnt for me.

Except the natural stuff like Vit B6...

My research and recent treatment experiments are leading me towards the Peripheral Nervous System. Apparently, this drug and chemo drugs like these have a hard time crossing the blood brain barrier, however the PNS is susceptible to chemical toxicity injury, since it and its receptors lie on the outside. Yes, neuropathy is the most common symptom, but sexual dysfunction can also occur, as well as gut and bile issues. (research the PNS) the PNS is connected to many organs.

It all makes sense. It's why doctors don't say much but suggest tricyclic antidepressant treatment. It's past their pay grade, but there's a manual they are reading and it's telling them what to prescribe in cases like these.

Expect side effects to slowly ease there way into your life , I say no ;)&&.

1 hour ago, macleod said:

My research and recent treatment experiments are leading me towards the Peripheral Nervous System. Apparently, this drug and chemo drugs like these have a hard time crossing the blood brain barrier, however the PNS is susceptible to chemical toxicity injury, since it and its receptors lie on the outside. Yes, neuropathy is the most common symptom, but sexual dysfunction can also occur, as well as gut and bile issues. (research the PNS) the PNS is connected to many organs.

It all makes sense. It's why doctors don't say much but suggest tricyclic antidepressant treatment. It's past their pay grade, but there's a manual they are reading and it's telling them what to prescribe in cases like these.

What supplements and drugs are you leaning towards in regard to this?

All the B Vit are good for nervous system...

Youd still advocate Lions Mane??

Ive got to order in that one, both my local health store and the Chinese doctor dont have it.

Yes, I take Lion's Mane, and I take B-1 and B-12 every other day. I'll put it like this. I used to not be able to tolerate cannabis after my accutane treatment, as my nerves would go haywire (paresthesia/dystensia), and now i am able to tolerate more and more each day. The marijuana is also temporarily treating my depression. Actually, when I'm well ingested with it, I go upstairs and work out in my little gym, especially the legs, because I can feel the nerves are not quite right just yet, but are getting there.

I'm actually quite convinced, after reading Pezzi's excerpt, and from my empirical observations that its the PNS. And the more I read up on the PNS and see its relation to vision, nerves, gut, sex, saliva, sweat, heartbeat, etc. etc. You'll also feel the same way.

A big Yes to Lion's Mane for everyone here. I can say that I am seeing noticeable improvements albeit almost 10 years after my 'crash'.

Oh, also, the PNS being affected would make this 'crash' theory make more sense.

On 2018-01-09 at 1:51 PM, TrueJustice said:

Why do others whove been through Chemo get on with their lives with no lingering side effects for the most part??

What is it about Accutane that it hangs around for so long?

I know cancer patients who go through hell while on chemo but after that all back to normal health. To be fighting cancer youd say yep its worth it, this is what I have to do....

To be given a cancer drug for pimples is fucking pathetic, absolutely fucking pathetic!!!!

They will look back at this as the most barbaric time in the history of medicine.

As a young man I was traumatized by this experience to say the least. That young man has a couple of red spots get the chemo out , fuck me these derms dont even deserve a fucking job.

That's actually a really good quote you found Gladiatoro from TrueJustice back in January. It's relevant to what I'm researching and trying to understand at the moment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19034447

[Edited video out]

This is something I have looked into and will be trialing in the next few days.
They recently released a consumer version called "just thrive"
I actually was reading about a periodontist of all professions recommending a spore based probiotic.
also ironically k2 mk-7 and a prebiotic
He talks about mitochondria health relating to gum inflammation, and a gut/mouth connection.
he recommends a maximum of just 3 types of supplements and reassess gum tissue health after 60 days.

Functions of Mitochondria

The mitochondria primarily are the batteries of the cell. If the batteries fail, the cell ultimately dies. However, energy production is not the only purpose of our mitochondria.[2]Mitochondria also produce heat as necessary, assist in calcium signaling within the host cell and throughout the body, and will induce cell death (apoptosis) when its host cell is damaged beyond repair. In addition, mitochondria regulate insulin in the cell, synthesize cholesterol and other steroids, and participate in other functions required by specialized cells. Another critical function of mitochondria is to interact intimately with other organelles of the cell, especially peroxisomes, to create cellular homeostasis.[3]

As a waste product, mitochondria produce free radicals, which must be neutralized. If the mitochondria are damaged beyond repair, the cell would not be able to function as it was designed. For example, a liver cell would not be able to function as a healthy liver cell; a brain cell would not be able to function as a healthy brain cell; a gum tissue cell would not be able to function as a healthy gum tissue cell. In some situations, the cell might begin to replicate out-of-control and become cancerous.

That leads to the question,
how's your gum tissue health been post tane?
https://drdanenberg.com/bacteria-mitochondria-gum-disease-a-critical-cycle/

https://microbiomelabs.com/products/megasporebiotic/

IMO - you should go to dentist for a thorough clean and check-up every six months, Im due again next week.
I also recommend getting all amalgam fillings replaced - I had all this done last year.

I believe ( outside of Accutane ) if people went to the dentist more often theyd ward off half the problems they have with poor health.

processesing food starts in the mouth so it makes sense to me to keep the mouth as clean as you can!!

This surely eliminates/reduces bad bacteria going into your gut yeah!!

20 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

They will look back at this as the most barbaric time in the history of medicine.

As a young man I was traumatized by this experience to say the least. That young man has a couple of red spots get the chemo out , fuck me these derms dont even deserve a fucking job.

Even if you have cancer chemotherapy is a very bad option with a 2 to 3 % success rate I would personally look into german new medicine with an over 90% success rate at actually curing stage 4 cancer and 0 toxic side effects.

Anyone empathise?

One person asked a derm isnt accutane bad for your body and the derm said yes but its good for your skin after hearing that the person left the derms office immediately.

Expect side effects to slowly ease there way into your life no @&).

Joint pain especially lower back pain, personality changes , mental dips ,systemic dehydration are ALL well documented long term side effects.

Sexual side effects are to be expected.

On 2/4/2018 at 11:13 PM, Frage said:

@Dubya_B
apoptosis. Haven't heard of that one. How does that theory go?
I'm afraid a large reason industries like big pharma have this dangerous corruption, despite being filled with a lot of people who mean well, is because of how they are set up. Research is expensive, drugs need to make money, anything out of the norm is doubted, and as long as someone is not significantly effected by the industry, they have no reason to investigate further. Most people just assume all is well, or atleast close to it. Maybe even among experts who know these things, what would you do about it? One day it may be that science prevails. Good science by inquisitive minds who are able to see what others have seen, but think what others never thought. But it will require a fundamental change in how the pharma industry works. Maybe even governmental change as well. Hope I get to see it, but I have my doubts too.

Just read this in a book, could this kind of apoptosis prove a problem to us?
"

In the rich parts of our planet the diseases that kill most of us are chronic. They take a long time to develop and often they take a long time to kill us when they do. Take heart disease, for example if someone survives the initial heart attack they dont necessarily ever go back to having a totally healthy heart again. During the attack some of the heart muscle cells (cardiomyocytes) may become starved of oxygen and die. We might imagine this would be no problem, as surely the heart can create replacement cells? After all, if we donate blood, our bone marrow can make more red blood cells. Similarly, we have to do an awful lot of damage to the liver before it stops being able to regenerate and repair itself. But the heart is different. Cardiomyocytes are referred to as terminally differentiated they have gone right to the bottom of Waddingtons hill and are stuck in a particular trough. Unlike bone marrow or liver, the heart doesnt have an accessible reservoir of less specialised cells (cardiac stem cells) that could turn into new cardiomyocytes. So, the long-term problem that follows a heart attack is that our bodies cant make new cardiac muscle cells. The body does the only thing it can and replaces the dead cardiomyocytes with connective tissue, and the heart never beats in quite the same way it did before.

Similar things happen in so many diseases the insulin-secreting cells that are lost when teenagers develop type 1 diabetes, the brain cells that are lost in Alzheimers disease, the cartilage producing cells that disappear during osteoarthritis the list goes on and on. It would be great if we could replace these with new cells, identical to our own. This way we wouldnt have to deal with all the rejection issues that make organ transplants such a challenge, or with the lack of availability of donors. Using stem cells in this way is referred to as therapeutic cloning; creating cells identical to a specific individual in order to treat a disease."

The thing is, is making money any sort of excuse for the harm they cause? Or any excuse for the "well-meaning" people involved with the pharmaceutical industry to sit idly by while dirty science is being manufactured, politicians and ilk are being bought, and obvious lies about their products are being printed under their noses? Keeping their careers is more important to them than human decency and they're all guilty as fuck in my opinion. Sometimes I wonder if Hans Peterson was right in saying there will never be justice through the courts, we have to make our own. Industry has too much money and pull for us to fight them in the courts.

Only good ones are the few whistle blowers who call them out on this nonsense.

Back to the point:

Accutane causes apoptosis of the secretory cells of meibomian glands (glands near the tear ducts that provide a protective lipid film). In a large number of post-Accutane-treated people, this this leads to chronic dry eyes, irritation, and infection. Not the worst thing that could happen, but Irreversible, flat-out irreversible:

A. Moy, N. A. McNamara, and M. C. Lin, Effects of Isotretinoin on Meibomian Glands, Optom Vis Sci, vol. 92, no. 9, pp. 925930, Sep. 2015.
http://journals.lww.com/optvissci/Abstract/2015/09000/Effects_of_Isotretinoin_on_Meibomian_Glands.6.aspx

A summary of suggested apooptic effects of isotretinoin:

B. Melnik, Apoptosis May Explain the Pharmacological Mode of Action and Adverse Effects of Isotretinoin, Including Teratogenicity, Acta Dermato Venereologica, vol. 97, no. 2, pp. 173181, 2017.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/contentone/mjl/adv/2017/00000097/00000002/art00003?crawler=true&mimetype=application/pdf

.

Basically after isotretinoin exposure that persons sebaceous glands are fried for life , messing with your skin is not advisable unless you want to have a heart attack , trust me I found out the hard way. Yes Im repeating myself but for nebs to this forum its worth repeating.

I swear these pHARMa $lutswill put all of us in an early grave they have a drug for everything , but NEVER talk about long term side effects
ONLY benefits.

In the end we are all accustained for LIFEthat is the harsh reality.

One more quote for the day I would rather be depressed and have joint pain vs looking like a beast , I say that is your decision.

In all seriousness, is someone going to put an end to the shitposting, or is this place going to turn into a total garbage dump?

On 2018-01-06 at 1:18 PM, fiksi said:

Now, this is just one gland... what about brain, gut etc? I did not have many side effects even form logn term antibiotics, from this s...t after few months I developed extreme symptoms.

Derms often say- don't worry, you'll just have dry lips... another poster today found blood in stool on accutane. This could be the beginning of Crohn's, IBS, or what else who knows. YOu may trade acne for another lifelong serious condition.

6000 genes sounds about right. 30 years of , we dont know the exact mechanism sure more like we are not responsible for future side effects , bs I say get the lawyers involved for poisoning a whole generation of kids and young adults.

Its time to make a stand against these pharmaceutical $luts our voices will NOT be silenced.