Unfortunately I don't have old blood tests to compare with all these done from August 2017 until today. All these years I only checked all the other stuff except testosterone, prolactin and these very specific ones. I don't think I even tested for those during 2011 when I did the treatment with Accutane. One thing I am sure: there's no way my testosterone was so low - in June 2012 (for example), I had high libido at this point but was experiencing depression at the same time, now there's not even 1% of the same feelings from back then, and my libido has plunged to the lowest levels ever. I simply don't care about sex/fap/women anymore.

My libido decreased over the years just like the depression. And it was already going that road a short while after the treatment ended. What I always questioned was if this was psychological only or mostly caused by the treatment, since depression is said to influence libido A LOT. What appeared to me was that after feeling REALLY depressed a person couldn't return to her mental state from before the treatment and this explained why the things evolved that way.

For some this is the explanation, for me I think this is 40% of the whole thing. The other 60% I would attribute to the drug, since we all know Accutane is in no way exempt from many maladies reported.

Meaning that Accutane is mostly responsible for all these changes.

I don't think there are enough tests one can do to investigate this issue. The problem is that some I won't be able to do in my health plan and if I have to pay for each from my pocket the whole thing will be expensive and not worth it. However this is the only way to MAKE SURE of what happened. And unless these studies start showing all that (and more) from all affected individuals I won't trust them to decide what to do in the future.

So far I did all the listed:

1) Uric Acid
2) Creatinine
3) Glucose
4) Complete Blood Count
5) Lipid profile
6) Free T4
7) Urea
8) Aspartate transaminase
9) Alanine Aminotransferase
10) Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
11) Total testosterone
12) Free testosterone
13) SHBG
14) Vitamin D
15) LH
16) FSH
17) Gamma-Glutamyl Transferase (GGT)
18) Prolactin
19) Zinc
20) Vitamin B-12
21) Progesterone
22) Estradiol
23) DHEA-S (still waiting results)
24) DHT (will try to do this month)

25) Spermogram
26) Abdominal ultrasound
27) Magnetic resonance imaging of the sella turcica region

PFS people have. Here for example: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11372
But I think most PFS people have low progesterone, as the melcangi study identifies.

Blood tests for Post-Finasteride Syndrome, Propecia side effects

[Edited link out]

Below is a recommended hormonal panel to evaluate the effect the drug is/was having on your body, comprised of certain hormones typically affected by the Post-Finasteride Syndrome. Since nobody knows every single hormone the drug affects by inhibiting the 5AR pathway, it's important to get as big a picture as possible.

If you are considering taking Finasteride (not recommended), we advise you to get BASELINE blood tests so you'll have results to compare against in the future, should things go disastrously wrong while on or after quitting the drug.

Labs

• Rhein Labs- 24hr urine profiling, inc. 5a/5b metabolite ratios
• Mayo Clinic Labs
• Quest Diagnostics
• Labcorp
• ARUP Labs
• LifeLabs Canada
• PrivateMD Labs- user pay

Hormonal Panel (Blood / 24hr-Urine tests)

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
Androstenediol
DHT (not accurate compared to Adiol-G)
3alpha-diol G(Androstanediol glucuronide-- "Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Androsterone glucuronide (another metabolite of DHT that measures 5AR activity)
Estradiol (E2) Ultrasensitive
Estrone (E1)
Total Estrogens
LH
FSH
DHEA-S
Vitamin D
Cortisol (24-hour urine sample)
Cortisone
Corticosterone
Aldosterone
Deoxycorticosterone
SHBG
Prolactin
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
17-OH Progesterone
17-OH Pregnenolone
Albumin
ACTH
PSA
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
IGF-1
IGF-BP3
CBC or FBC (Complete Blood Count/Full Blood Count)
LFT (Liver Function Tests - AST, ALT, GGT, Bilirubin, etc.)
Androgen/Estrogen ratio
Testosterone/DHT ratio
17-ketosteroids (24-hr urine sample)

Recommended "short" list:

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH
Vitamin D

Then you can see some collective results here,

Hormones, blood test results of Propecia side effects, Post-Finasteride Syndrome

[Edited link out]

Regarding low vitamin D, I wonder if you would see high results of active vitamin D, not commonly tested.
I thought I recall seeing this from a member on phoenix rising, who had extensive testing.

You would be looking at a 1,25 D blood test.
NOT 25 D

Excess of Active Form of Vitamin D (1,25 D) Linked to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Lyme Disease, Fibromyalgia and Autoimmune Illnesses(2004)

[Edited link out]

Recent research shows that the active form of the vitamin D hormone (1,25 D) is present in excessive levels relative to the inactive 25 D form in patients diagnosed with a number of inflammatory illnesses, such as certain autoimmune illnesses, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and Lyme disease. Evidence suggests that this is due to unregulated production of 1,25 vitamin D by macrophages in the course of an excessive TH1 immune response.

Bioavailable testosterone: isn't this just a calculation instead of another test?
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm

Based on this link I have170 ng/dL = 47.5 % of bioavailable testosterone. This is how I reached this value:

Albumin is already at 4.3 ng/dL (haven't tested for this)
SHBG levels were32.6 nmol/L
If the site is asking TOTAL testosterone the blood tests showed 357 ng/dL (307 in august, 419 in november, after supplementing with vitamin D). The calculator says7.23 ng/dL = 2.03 % for Free testosterone, which matches with the 7.21 free T from the lab results. See all these tests here: [Edited link out]

On 1/30/2018 at 9:54 PM, Perene said:

For the record, here's what I found out just now: the max intake for Vitamin B-6, suggested to treat high prolactin instead of the expensive (and needed for years with a chance of the results being scrapped after interruption of treatment) Cabergoline and similar drugs.

(and this one was pointed as the best choice/most effective in treating the high prolactin):

- Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the metabolically active form (sold as P-5-P vitamin supplement)

It's not even 50 mg, but 25 mg/day. This PDF explains that thoroughly:
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/efsa_rep/blobserver_assets/ndatolerableuil.pdf

http://www.drorestesg.com/blog/are-you-overdosing-on-vitamin-b6- (check this one, too)

I was discouraged after reading all this to try 50-200 mg. I think that contrary to the previous links I posted there's a chance of this supplement (at high doses) introduce new health issues, and opting for25 mg/day will not produce the same results, but it's a risk I am willing to take.

I converted the 2000 IU from the vitamin D prescribed by the nutritionist and noticed it fits the max intake ALSO RECOMMENDED from that PDF (for adults):

50 ug/day = exactly 2000 IU

For vitamin E the PDF apparently says 270 mg/day for adults (rounded to 300). 200 IU as prescribed is equivalent to 134 or 90 mg.

Vitamin-E is mentioned to be helpful in this regard just like B-6.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/vitamin-a-is-dopaminergic-and-reduces-prolactin-in-humans.6053/

As for vitamin D, Greg made some great comments in this podcast episode, but since the Sun will hit directly my face I'll continue using, to prevent my skin from aging faster. I know that it's only a few minutes every day that I expose myself, still...

I'll sunbathe in the shade every morning (between 9am and 12pm, the only moment of the day when this can work), without any protection, to compensate for that, a few minutes. So with the supplement and this idea I predict my testosterone levels will be in the 400's again. And tomorrow I'll see if more blood tests can be done to add them to this investigation.

What about more common B6 form,that is just pyridoxine?
Can it yield any benefits as well?

Apparently it works, too. The issue here is the following: would it work at smaller doses or show to be ineffective for this end? I am not going to use Cabergoline and similar drugs. They are very expensive and perhaps would work better for very high prolactin, for someone in a situation far worse than mine. I am a healthy individual, so it's very likely with these changes and new supplements prescribed by the nutritionist things will improve significantly. Still I'll see this month if it's worth taking a B-complex vitamin or B-6 alone at the max intake of 25 mg.

Effects of pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6) on chlorpromazine-induced serum prolactin rise in male rats.

To investigate if vitamin B6 inhibits prolactin release and to compare this effect to that of bromocriptine, a known suppressor of prolactin release, a study was conducted in male rats. Animals were pretreated with pyridoxine hydrochloride, pyridoxal hydrochloride, saline, or bromocriptine 30 min prior to receiving varying doses of chlorpromazine hydrochloride. Blood samples were obtained 90 min later and analyzed for serum prolactin by a double-antibody radioimmunoassay. Another study involved pyridoxal hydrochloride and saline pretreatments 30 min prior to doses of chlorpromazine hydrochloride. Blood samples collected 60 min later were also analyzed for serum prolactin. Pyridoxine hydrochloride significantly suppressed the chlorpromazine-induced prolactin rise (p less than 0.01). However, the suppression was significantly less than that produced by bromocriptine (p less than 0.01). Pyridoxal hydrochloride, another natural form of vitamin B6, failed to suppress prolactin under the conditions of both studies. This investigation may lend support to the concept that pyridoxine hydrochloride partially inhibits prolactin by a mechanism not involving dopamine.

Are we all working simultaneously on gut health??

pointless trying to counteract activity in the brain if you still have leaky gut and poor gut villi.

And thats not even mentioning the liver which the jury is still out on post tane.

I still maintain we need to fix gut first and foremost before well feel better in the head - everything from mood to energy to no brain fog.

22 hours ago, Perene said:

Bioavailable testosterone: isn't this just a calculation instead of another test?

I think a direct blood test would be more accurate.
The most important test seems to be total testosterone.
Yoursseems somewhat low for your age (which I dont know your age, but im guessing you're not that old)
I look at that long list of hormones and I wouldnt try to manipulate any of those even if out of range, with the exception of testosterone.

If someone is at an age though where natural production of testosterone should be higher, Id wonder if you could get this back so to speak without going on hormone replacement therapy, of course you would have to have an idea of underlining cause, which is still a big question.

One term I dont see mentioned too often if at all regarding sexual sides for both PFS and Accutane is
Penile atrophy or testicular atrophy.
Then you start to think about other tissue death, for example hair loss. Probably one of the first noticeable physical symptoms. Could this be an autoimmune type reaction as well?

My age is 33, I was born Oct 25, 1984. The accutane treatment was in 2011.

I didthe DHT blood test today and in the next week I'll have the DHEA-S and DHT results. I don't know if DHEA-S will help in any way, I am guessing it's not relevant as I thought.

I did some research today and noticed that the Omega-3 Fish Oil 1000mg prescribed by the nutritionist needs to have vitamin E to prevent spoilage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677810/

A good ammount of the eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are the important ingredients in fish oil supplements. Of all the brands I found, only two (more expensive than the rest) had vitamin E, one has 500/400 from EPA/DHA (the other I couldn't find these numbers). The one that says 500/400 also stated that is toxic free, so you may want to look for this information in the package, and see if the product is certified.

Whey Protein concentrate: Only two brands I found are worth buying, and not that expensive, in a 30g-dose the Whey needs to have at least 20-24g of protein and no more than 5g of carbs. If it has less than that it's not good.

Back to my case: I don't think I have testicular issues, because in this link:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472884/

It's said that primary hypogonadism"is associated with low levels of testosterone and high-normal to high levels of LH and FSH". My testosterone is low, but not that much, since it can reach 400 in ideal conditions, such as supplementing with vitamin D. And my LH/FSH results were:

LH =4,61 mUI/mL (lab ranges: 1,24 A 8,62 MUI/ML)
FSH =6,54 mUI/mL (lab ranges: 1,27 A 19,26 MUI/ML)

If the FSH and LH levels are raised, this suggests a primary testicular cause, and if levels are low or normal, a hypothalamic or pituitary cause should be considered. A raised prolactin level suggests that further investigation of the pituitary gland should be undertaken.

Mine aren't raised, the levels are low or normal. So this can only be secondary hypogonadism, if someone wants to take a guess what it is. So this is not a problem with the testicles.

In patients with primary hypogonadism, history might reveal the cause for primary testicular failure, such as familial autoimmune disease, physical trauma to the testes, or trauma to the testes caused by radiation, chemotherapy, or infection.

A karyotype should be obtained to diagnose chromosomal abnormalities, such as Klinefelters syndrome, and a physical examination will reveal small or absent testes resulting from anorchia, Noonans syndrome, or other testicular disorders.

The article also states that:

********
An early morning total serum testosterone level of less than 300 ng/dL clearly indicates hypogonadism, and under most circumstances benefit will be derived from testosterone replacement therapy. A healthy male adult patient with a serum testosterone level greater than 400 ng/dL is unlikely to be testosterone deficient, and therefore clinical judgment should be exercised if he has symptoms suggestive of testosterone deficiency.
********

In other words I don't needtestosterone replacement therapy (TRT), which is something no one should consider unless absolutely necessary, due to its side effects, and perhaps the need to do it indefinitely. TRT is probably good for much worse cases. I am positive Accutane reduced my testosterone levels (and elevated the prolactin, too), and with all these proposed changes in my diet and lifestyle they can be raised, and prolactin reduced as well.

I believe Cabergoline will only be prescribed for more extreme cases, instead of 20, 25, 28 (my levels measured in the last months), for someone with 100 or more. I think vitamin B-6 (and E) will probably reduce prolactin, but the reduction will be a lot less than what someone achieves with the usual dopamine agonists. And since my PRL levels aren't that high, perhaps reducing from 25 to 15 or 10 is what I need, so it won't be useful to reduce that much by taking higher B-6 doses (which can have side effects) or taking strong meds like Cabergoline andBromocriptine.

http://www.fdable.com/basic_query/aers

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/iDAP/

I've posted something similar to this before, but again, this could be an important study.

The effects of systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic therapy on the microbial floras in patients with acne vulgaris.

BACKGROUND:

Although there are several studies about the alteration in skin flora, limited number of reports about changes in the microbial contents and their resistance profile of other body sites in patients treated with isotretinoin for acne vulgaris.

OBJECTIVES:

The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic therapy on the microbial floras of oropharynx, nose and feces in acne patients.

METHODS:

Treatment groups of isotretinoin and antibiotics consisting of 20 and 15 patients, respectively were included. Microbiological culture samples were taken at baseline and once a month during 4-6 months of treatment period.

RESULTS:

Difference in microbial flora throughout the treatment period was detected at least among one of all culture samples of 15 (75%) and 5 (33%) patients in isotretinoin and antibiotic groups. There was statistically significant difference between two groups in means of alteration of the microbial flora (P = 0.013). The difference was definitely observed among nasal cultures (65%) in isotretinoin group and fecal cultures (20%) in the other. Staphylococcus aureus colonization was prominent in the microbial floras of nose and oropharynx and 2 of 14 nasal isolates were detected to be methicilline resistant while Escherichia coli with extended spectrum beta lactamase activity was detected in fecal floras of patients in isotretinoin group.

CONCLUSIONS:

Systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic treatments in acne patients precisely caused variations in the microbial floras of several sites of the body, while isotretinoin was commonly more responsible than antibiotics. Knowing that alterations in the microbial colonization of the flora regions may precede infectious disease and bacterial resistance, treatment options and follow-up procedures in acne vulgaris should be carefully determined to reduce the risk of destruction of the microbial flora.

These are examples of what can go wrong with these microbial alterations, not that probiotics are a cure at this point.

Probiotics Improve Inflammation-Associated Sickness Behavior by Altering Communication between the Peripheral Immune System and the Brain

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/30/10821

Probiotic mixture VSL#3 reduce high fat diet induced vascular inflammation and atherosclerosis in ApoE^/mice

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005234/

Thx for this post guitarman!!!

So the fact that altering gut flora can precede infectious disease and bacterial resistance, what might that mean?
Do we now need Antibiotics to fight an infection??

My gastroenterologist put me on both Rifaximin and Vancomycin but I didnt have any changes. Also mentioned some time ago on forum were Metronizadole and Paromomycin.

There have been other doctors suggesting Accutane has exposed us to an infection due to wiping out our gut health, I know because its been mentioned before. Obviously fixing gut flora is only part of the solution, we should also look at infections, but how? Is that just a blood test?

When someone says, its Candida for instance, thats just the tip of the iceberg, perhaps we need to look at what else a bacterial infection might be doing.

Horrified to compare MHRA ADRs accutane v finasteride.

Accutane reports much higher.

Did anyone else take a look?

Yes. Thanks for the links.

Noticed the first 30 reactions in the FDA report included outcomes such as "Death", "Disability", and "Hospitalization."
Pathetic to have only 30 listed out of over 10,000 for what is supposed to be public information.
RXisk's reports generated from the FDA database is much better.

Many more reports of reproductive disorders in the Yellowcard system for last year than any other year. Possibly thanks to the PIL change.

Also noticed Yellowcard report categorizes by age, so you can see for yourself how many people in their teens and 20's are suffering symptoms usually attributed to being elderly.

.

2 hours ago, Dubya_B said:

Yes. Thanks for the links.

Noticed the first 30 reactions in the FDA report included outcomes such as "Death", "Disability", and "Hospitalization."
Pathetic to have only 30 listed out of over 10,000 for what is supposed to be public information.
RXisk's reports generated from the FDA database is much better.

Many more reports of reproductive disorders in the Yellowcard system for last year than any other year. Possibly thanks to the PIL change.

Also noticed Yellowcard report categorizes by age, so you can see for yourself how many people in their teens and 20's are suffering symptoms usually attributed to being elderly.

.

Dubya, I know you have been active for many years in this space. I just wanted to know, of all the thing you've tried have you tried or know of people who have suffered sexual side effects from accutane who have tried either RU486 (mifepristone) or high dose D-serine???

In case there's any doubt Accutane causes depression, I have two pictures from the exact period when my libido was increased and at the same time I was feeling worse than ever before (June, 2012). This was almost 1 year after the treatment ended. If I were to describe how I felt at the time I would recommend watching Spock in the episode "The Naked Time". Suddenly I was acting like him, totally out of character. I remember I cried for days/weeks, something I never did before. And I never used any specific drug in my life besides Accutane.

Of course with all my years of practically living as a recluse it was only a matter of time to solve this, but for many people that already have something stressful happening in their lives this is a SURE recipe for disaster.

[Edited link out]

And this is a recording from November 20, 2017:

[Edited link out]

Do I look like I am still struggling to overcome anything that is affecting my mind? No. It took me years, howeverthis side effect has completely vanished. Still, the low libido is there to stay unless these proposed changes in my health (and perhaps a low dose of B-6 that I'll discuss this in the next days) really make a difference. In my opinion things will improve, even if they don't return to what they were before 2011. Only time will tell.

My libido can't return exactly to what it was because I am already detached from these things. If they don't and I don't start feeling more excited in this regard it's not a problem for me. One thing I'll say, I never thought that one day I would completely control this. Like that guy who commited suicide I also used to think about girls and a sex life all the time, then over the years this stopped having any relevance to me.

There must be MANY cases of depression and low libido that are never reported. We can always find more if we start to look. And only now that low libido is being pushed to be included in the leaflet there's this BS excuse that it is rare. In the last version of the leaflet they also say that about depression.

Isn't this more epigenetic guys? Theres people who have took one pill and then the next day have full blown pfs. Depression, brainfog, etc. Something happened in that short time period that turned a perfectly healthy person into a chronic sufferer of countless symptoms. Gut isn't the cause of this, but definitely another damaged area. If the 19th century was the era of evolution, and the 20th century the age of DNA, then the 21st century is the era of epigenetics. Is there any other cellular memory that could explain the persistent radical changes that has happened to some of us? Its unfortunate that epigenetic treatments are in such an infancy. I want to look into other diseases that are using epigenetic ideas as treatments, even if there just therapeutic treatments, but there is such little information as to what has happened to us. How could we possibly approach a cure when we have nearly zero data? Wish I had money to throw around. Wish I had a lot of things. Like a time machine. All I know is I can't wait for more studies to come out. And I feel like I have to keep trying things, it's like how I cope, but I've become scared of anything that interacts with the 5ar or androgen receptor. Even the glycine I've been using. Don't want to make myself any worse.

Its got to be epigenetic right? The new Milan study is looking at specifically epigenetic effects AND the Baylor study is.
[Edited link out]
http://www.pfsfoundation.org/news/clinical-study-of-post-finasteride-syndrome-launched-at-baylor-college-of-medicine/

Yep, I think its time for me to getthe 23 and metest done!!

At least from that I can see where I might have some problems genetically that I might be able toleverage......maybe

Hi everyone,

I' m new, but I observed this forum for 3 years now. Three years ago I took accutane. I stopped the treatment when I saw that one breakout didn't heal properly and left me with indented scar. I told dermatologist why I want to stop treatment and she didn't believe accutane was the cause of skin behaving abnormally. I didn't see her since then. After treatment over time skin got worse and worse.
I had perfect skin before with occasional cystic breakouts mainly on lower part of face, which didn't leave indented scars, they left red inflammation mark, which dissapeared with time. My situation now:

- pathologically dry skin all over body
- weirdly thin, sensitive skin
- pulling sensation in skin on face, skin feels too tight
- every breakout leaves indented scar
- skin doesn't heal properly
- little scratches leave scars all over body
- I have to have a heavy emolient cream all the time on my face, otherwise skin feels severely dehydrated and lips peel and crack
- my lower lip have a crack in middle which reopens often if I don't lather it with balm
- cracking corners of mouth, which leaves scars
- lips peeling daily
- extreme sun sensitivity, during last holiday in sun my lips swelled up and peeled afterwards leaving my lips wrinkled now, also I got fine lines under my eyes and on forehead that one sunny summer
- large pores on whole face, before it was smooth
- orange peel structure 
- red flushing cheeks
- faster wrinkling skin
- avoid acids on skin, even eating grapefruit makes my lips burn and peel 
- hair thinning
- have to avoid wearing makeup, sauna, washing face with water
- joints cracking and knees started hurting a bit over time
- constipations, which didn't happen before
- hemoroids, which fortunately heal over time

I am not sure I covered every symptom here, maybe I forgot something. But these symptoms are enough to severly lower the quality of life. I accepted it now, but I still want to find a cure. I tried healthy eating, drinking gallon of water a day, vitamin D and it improves only for some time, but not permanently. I think about prolonged fasting. If I try fasting, I will let you know and write the results here.
I apologize for bad spelling here, english is not my first language.

Live long and prosper Kasia

On 2/4/2018 at 9:28 AM, flynn said:

Dubya, I know you have been active for many years in this space. I just wanted to know, of all the thing you've tried have you tried or know of people who have suffered sexual side effects from accutane who have tried either RU486 (mifepristone) or high dose D-serine???

No. ...Not familiar with D-serine. Read some discussion among PFS folks about RU-486, but not aware of how many of them tried it, or what the results were.

Just FYI, RU-486 is a super-potent cortisol-receptor blocker, even more so than a progesterone-receptor blocker. It is also a mild AR blocker.

.

On 2/4/2018 at 3:14 PM, Frage said:

Isn't this more epigenetic guys? Theres people who have took one pill and then the next day have full blown pfs. Depression, brainfog, etc. Something happened in that short time period that turned a perfectly healthy person into a chronic sufferer of countless symptoms. Gut isn't the cause of this, but definitely another damaged area. If the 19th century was the era of evolution, and the 20th century the age of DNA, then the 21st century is the era of epigenetics. Is there any other cellular memory that could explain the persistent radical changes that has happened to some of us? Its unfortunate that epigenetic treatments are in such an infancy. I want to look into other diseases that are using epigenetic ideas as treatments, even if there just therapeutic treatments, but there is such little information as to what has happened to us. How could we possibly approach a cure when we have nearly zero data? Wish I had money to throw around. Wish I had a lot of things. Like a time machine. All I know is I can't wait for more studies to come out. And I feel like I have to keep trying things, it's like how I cope, but I've become scared of anything that interacts with the 5ar or androgen receptor. Even the glycine I've been using. Don't want to make myself any worse.

Its got to be epigenetic right? The new Milan study is looking at specifically epigenetic effects AND the Baylor study is.
[Edited link out]
http://www.pfsfoundation.org/news/clinical-study-of-post-finasteride-syndrome-launched-at-baylor-college-of-medicine/

Epigenetic or apoptic effects. Hopefully the former. Either way, bad news and not something that will be easy to deal with. We may have been literally turned into something we weren't prior to taking the drug due to cell death or reprogramming. This was touted as doom and gloom "science fiction" a few years ago. Now it is at least acceptable to discuss such things.

My personal belief is that in the 22nd century, it will be realized that evil spirits possessing the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, and dermatology are what caused this and a ruthless exorcism ritual will be performed. The future will be bright.

Someone mentioned post-treatment feeling like Mr. Spock when he lost control. I had the opposite experience with Accutane, turning rather dull and emotionless after treatment.

3 hours ago, Dubya_B said:

No. ...Not familiar with D-serine. Read some discussion among PFS folks about RU-486, but not aware of how many of them tried it, or what the results were.

Just FYI, RU-486 is a super-potent cortisol-receptor blocker, even more so than a progesterone-receptor blocker. It is also a mild AR blocker.

.
Epigenetic or apoptic effects. Hopefully the former. Either way, bad news and not something that will be easy to deal with. We may have been literally turned into something we weren't prior to taking the drug due to cell death or reprogramming. This was touted as doom and gloom "science fiction" a few years ago. Now it is at least acceptable to discuss such things.

My personal belief is that in the 22nd century, it will be realized that evil spirits possessing the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, and dermatology are what caused this and a ruthless exorcism ritual will be performed. The future will be bright.

Someone mentioned post-treatment feeling like Mr. Spock when he lost control. I had the opposite experience with Accutane, turning rather dull and emotionless after treatment.

Yes RU has worked well for several PFS guys with their sexual sides. They reported improvements from doing 3 days 50mg each day. Interestingly, improvements began in some once they stopped treatment. I'm pretty sure RU is a more potent antagonist of the progesterone receptors than cortisol.

https://www.nature.com/articles/tp201398 Note that RU-486 was able to reverse HPA hyperactivity induced by isotretinoin and ATRA. I feel it's unlikely, but its possible that there are lasting effects of accutane on either glucocorticoid receptors and/or progesterone receptors in the brain. Leading to either increased or decreased sensitivity. Both of these things could affect dopamine function/response to rewarding stimuli and sexual function. Seem unlikely that these effects would persist as long as they have after treatment, but at this point. I feel its worth trying anything and everything.

PFS people have benefited sexually from RU-486, I haven't found any PAS people with sexual sides who have tried it. Seems like a no brainer to at least to give it a try.

My final post for you dummys go to whale.to it exposes the pHARMa industry for what it really is CORRUPT to the core as always read the book Virus Mania its on that web site free , a must read.

Someone needs to go to JAIL.

On 2/2/2018 at 7:52 PM, TrueJustice said:

Thx for this post guitarman!!!

So the fact that altering gut flora can precede infectious disease and bacterial resistance, what might that mean?
Do we now need Antibiotics to fight an infection??

My gastroenterologist put me on both Rifaximin and Vancomycin but I didnt have any changes. Also mentioned some time ago on forum were Metronizadole and Paromomycin.

There have been other doctors suggesting Accutane has exposed us to an infection due to wiping out our gut health, I know because its been mentioned before. Obviously fixing gut flora is only part of the solution, we should also look at infections, but how? Is that just a blood test?

Im not sure sterilizing the gut (and other locations) with antibiotics would be the right approach. It is hard to say though. It could help in resetting things? Antibiotics also have the potential to worsen the situation as well.
In cases of SIBO, gut dysbiosis, or staph colonization in the nose/sinuses, after treatment with antibiotics the bad bacteria or sickness usually comes back.
Maybe Its more along the lines of a protector missing, or something that normally would keep these imbalances in check.

20 hours ago, Perene said:

In case there's any doubt Accutane causes depression,

Patients with systemic inflammatory diseases (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, chronic liver disease) commonly develop debilitating symptoms (i.e., sickness behaviors) that arise from changes in brain function. The microbiota-gut-brain axis alters brain function and probiotic ingestion can influence behavior.

Alterationsin flora most definitely can have epigenetic effects.

1 hour ago, flynn said:

Yes RU has worked well for several PFS guys with their sexual sides. They reported improvements from doing 3 days 50mg each day. Interestingly, improvements began in some once they stopped treatment. I'm pretty sure RU is a more potent antagonist of the progesterone receptors than cortisol.

https://www.nature.com/articles/tp201398 Note that RU-486 was able to reverse HPA hyperactivity induced by isotretinoin and ATRA. I feel it's unlikely, but its possible that there are lasting effects of accutane on either glucocorticoid receptors and/or progesterone receptors in the brain. Leading to either increased or decreased sensitivity. Both of these things could affect dopamine function/response to rewarding stimuli and sexual function. Seem unlikely that these effects would persist as long as they have after treatment, but at this point. I feel its worth trying anything and everything.

PFS people have benefited sexually from RU-486, I haven't found any PAS people with sexual sides who have tried it. Seems like a no brainer to at least to give it a try.

The study was just plain awesome. Another one that shows clear correlation between Accutane's main active metabolite and depressive behavior. Good to see they even included controls to show the effects on cortisol receptors and that mifepristone enables negative feedback during treatment. Yeah, it's probably a long-shot, so tread carefully. I've had too many bad experiences with treatments to join you in this though.

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