1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

I would say it causes both, the diminished brain function probably comes first though.

People committing suicide, flying planes into buildings, stabbing doctors are depressed no doubt.

Did you get warned of the permanent dehydration? I didnt and there seems to be nothing to fix it, it just gets worse as time goes on.

God only knows the implications of this from a systemic level - not good for the organs at all.

I would agree there is no way in hell systemic dehydration is healthy for a while I thought I was diabetic turns out its just the tan messing with my system.

All over a few few red spots pathetic , our health care system around the world has done such an incredible job there is hardly anyone healthy left lol.

Again though I would emphasize mental dips not depression probably caused by being chronically dehydrated , no question this drug does some strange things.

Accutane cures acne WITH side effects , no joke . I would say you are making a deal with the devil .

One guy said I would rather be depressed and have joint pain vs looking like a beast , Im not so shure.

Question what really does cause the birth defects in babys .?

In the end this board has gotten us absolutely no where other than thousands of pages of nothing , key dont mess with your skin our skin receptors are permanenty;)$& up unless of course you want to have a heart attack ,I would say is number 1 the dont mess part, 2 drink lots of clean water I would suggest maunawai the purest water filter system on the planet 3 systemicdehydration is after all permanent and mental dips are to be expected 4 m shutting down this board for good.

Its not this forums fault we dont have all the answers

At any given time this board is a place to vent frustrations, share ideas, share tests etc but its not the fault of the vast majority who post here that we dont have all the answers - weve learnt more here than anywhere else thats for sure.

Yeah we get idiots from time to time who advocate taking Accutane who think its a good idea to post here, I have compassion though for the collective group - add up all the experimenting, all the procedures weve had done over the years, all the different things weve taken and posted about.......absolutely staggering and a credit to the perseverance of sufferers!!

Isotretinoin is a molecule and a byproduct (metabolite) of vitamin A, and in greater than normal amounts in pregnant women, it can cause fetal abnormalities including cleft lips, ear and eye defects, and mentalretardation. Isotretinoin is commonly called by its trade name Accutane, and it's a chemical compound derived from vitamin A, also called retinoic acid. Doctors prescribe isotretinoin to treat severe acne. For pregnant women, too much vitamin A or isotretinoin can also cause greater than normal rates of stillbirths and fetal disintegrations after the ninth week ofgestation. Women who use isotretinoin during the firsttrimesterof their pregnancies, even in small amounts, risk defects to their fetuses such as external ear malformations, cleft palates, undersized jaws (micrognathia), a variety of heart defects, buildups of fluids inside the skulls that leads to brain swelling (hydrocephalus), small heads and brains (microcephaly), and mentalretardation.

Derivatives of vitamin A, called retinoids, function in proper embryonic development. With insufficient vitamin A, embryos fail to segment and grow, blood vessels fail to form, and the embryo is ultimately lost. Retinoids are involved in the expression ofHoxgenes, which function in signaling pathways that regulate the patterning of embryonic structures during the fourth week of development. However, embryos exposed to excess vitamin A have higher than normal amounts of retinoids, and theirHoxgenesmalfunction, disrupting genetic control of body shape (axial patterning) during the embryo's development. Such disruptions can lead to developmental defects, particularly in the embryonic spinal cord,central nervous system, and spinal cord, where retinoic acid synthesizes and where catabolic enzymes are located.

Researchers have studied the ability of large doses of vitamin A to causebirth defects, or teratogenicity, since the 1950s. In 1953 Sidney Q. Cohlan, a researcher at the Beth Israel Hospital in New York City, New York, published research reporting the effects of excessive maternal vitamin A intake on newborn rats. Werner Bollag initially studied isotretinoin for the treatment of skin cancer at the Department of Experimental Medicine, Hoffman-La Roche laboratories in Basel, Switzerland, in the 1960s. In 1971, Bollag discovered the compound's ability to treat acne, but with isotretinoin's lack of effect in cancer treatments, Bollag abandoned it as a pharmaceutical.

In 1975 the Gary Peck and Frank Yoder in the US rediscovered isotretinoin's therapeutic effects for the treatment of cystic acne, a severe form of acne that causes inflammation deep below the skin's surface. Hoffman-La Roche registered isotretinoin as Accutane with the USFood and Drug Administration(FDA) in Maryland in 1979, and they began marketing it as a prescription drug in 1982. The FDA recognized isotretinoin as teratogen before it was first marketed in 1982, and classified isotretinoin as a Category X drug. Category X, considered the most severe on the FDA's list of assignedpregnancycategories, includes drugs for which studies in animals orhumanshave displayed fetal abnormalities and that the use of the drug by pregnant women clearly outweighs any potential benefits.

In June 1983 doctors in New Jersey reported to the FDA the first incidence of human teratogenicity, or agent-caused developmentalbirth defects, linked to Accutane. The drug had been on the market for acne treatment for nine months. That same month, two additional cases were reported to the FDA. In August of 1983, Franz Rosa, working for the US FDA in Maryland, published an article describing twelve Accutane-related cases of embryotoxicity. In response, Hoffman-La Roche distributed red warning stickers to pharmacies for Accutane containers and revised Accutane's drug label to include more information about the possibility ofbirth defects. The label was revised a second time in September 1983 when Public Citizen, an advocacyorganizationin Washington, D.C., petitioned the FDA to require inserts in Accutane bottles explaining the possible side effects. The FDA denied Public Citizen's request.

Doctors prescribed Accutane to 400,000 patients within its first eighteen months of marketing, and by early 1984, Hoffman-La Roche received reports of twenty Accutane-affected infants. The reports prompted the FDA's Dermatologic Drugs Advisory Committee to address the issue. On 11 February 1988, based on an estimate that anywhere from 900 to 1,300 infants had been affected by Accutane in the US, several members of the committee urged that Accutane be removed from the market. The FDA, however, acknowledged only sixty-two reports of affected babies. One month later, the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC), headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, released a report highlighting four New Jersey cases of babies exposed to Accutane prior to birth. All four babies were born with severebirth defects. This report pushed the FDA to schedule a meeting with the Dermatologic Drugs Advisory Committee that spring.

At the FDA's Dermatologic Drugs Advisory Committee meeting in 1988, some argued that Accutane should remain available as an acne treatment due to its exceptional efficacy and short treatment duration of fifteen to twenty weeks. The committee voted four-to-three to allow Accutane to remain on the market with restricted access. A month later, the FDA announced that it would not follow the committee's recommendation to restrict the drug and instead issued new label warnings.

In October 1988 the FDA's required that Hoffman-La Roche implement a Pregnancy Prevention Program (PPP) for Accutane. The PPP informed patients about the risks and benefits associated with isotretinoin, assisted physicians in complying with the package insert requirements, and evaluated a patient's ability to adhere to the requirement of not being or becoming pregnant one month before, during the course of, or one month after therapy. The PPP protocol required that women use two forms of effective contraceptive during therapy, follow-up with officials through phone calls and questionnaires, and that they be offered reimbursement for contraceptive counseling andpregnancytesting.

Throughout the 1990s, Hoffman-La Roche struggled with the consequences of Accutane's teratogenicity, and the company became involved in several court cases in Ohio and New Jersey about Accutane's teratogenicity. Of these cases, a number involved documents that allegedly indicated Hoffman-La Roche's negligence. In one case, Hoffman-La Roche sued Frank Yoder, the co-discoverer of Accutane's therapeutic effects, for his attempt to threaten the company into purchasing his private collection of documents, which according to Yoder, dealt with "the development, use, and misuse of isotretinoin (Accutane)."

In another case, Thelma and Marvin Louis Hammocks sued Hoffman-La Roche in 1995 for their son Marvin Louis Jr.'s Accutane-inducedbirth defects. After the case was settled, Hoffman-La Roche requested that the documents obtained by the Hammocks during discovery be sealed. Public Citizen challenged the court's decision to seal the documents. Eventually, the New Jersey Supreme Court concluded that based on the policy of public access to information about health, safety, and welfare, the documents should be released. On 9 May 1996, the documents were officially unsealed.

The documents, however, did not provide the conclusive evidence that Public Citizen had expected; records showed that within a year of releasing the drug to the market, the company became anxious about Accutane and its relatedbirth defects, and that the first documented Accutane baby was born on 29 April 1983. Although Yoder and Public Citizen failed to provide evidence that Hoffman-La Roche indeed withheld information from the FDA and researchers in the US, the three aforementioned cases prompted some to question Hoffman-La Roche's behavior, including the company's initial proposal to give Accutane apregnancyrisk rating of category C, meaning that the drug adversely affects fetuses, but that the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks forhumans.

The FDA instituted a program on 1 March 2006 called iPLEDGE as a way to allow patients to use isotretinoin, an otherwise safe and effective drug. US patients using Accutane must enroll in this risk management program designed to prevent fetal exposure to isotretinoin. Physicians and pharmacies must enroll in the program before they may prescribe or dispense isotretinoin. For a woman to receive isotretinoin, iPLEDGE requires that she must use two forms ofcontraception, submit a negativepregnancytest to her physician each month over the course of her therapy, answer questions about iPLEDGE each month before receiving her prescription via the online iPLEDGE system, and pick up her prescription within a seven-day window. During the first year of the program, 122 women on isotretinoin became pregnant, about the same number of pregnancies as the year prior. However, much fewer patients were treated with isotretinoin.

Since its release, Accutane has been prescribed to approximately five million people nationwide and twelve million worldwide, with eighty-five percent of all treated patients achieving complete elimination of acne after a course of therapy. Although the risks associated with isotretinoin remain, and fetal exposure to the drug has not been completely eliminated.

Agree this thread is getting nowhere it's been dead for a very long time

Splitting Thread here. Science basedposts and test results only. any bullshit posts will be deleted. This thread has gotten so bad with useless posts that have nothing to do with repairing the damage. its just pure venting now.

On 2018-01-12 at 5:58 PM, cnb30 said:

Why are you standing for the murder of innocent lives? Why are you coming on here and telling individuals who have basically had their lives unjustly ruined by bloodthirsty corporations to suck it up and that they're all wrong? What kind of sick mind do you have to do that?

He is saying that only a small small percentage of accutane users get such bad side effects.

9 hours ago, brendan452 said:

Agree this thread is getting nowhere it's been dead for a very long time

You are free to leave. Not much point in wasting your time or anyone else's.
Statements like these are what leads to nowhere.

Even people that have criticized this thread though or start to veer, I've gotten information from them that's been helpful. I also know how hard it is to curtail frustration sometimes.

Somoene has discovered the solution for a persistent sexual life destroyed by this drug?

accutane can thin your face?

@RuvikOne of your last posts on here you mentioned your doctor suspected you might have penile fibrosis.
Was anything ever confirmed through testing?
For example muscle damage, blood vessel damage or plaque build up?

Accutane can thin your skin all over, not just the face but entire body, also internally as well. Tissue that lines the gi tract, esophagus or colon for example.

What helpful information have you got because as far as I'm aware we're all still fucked

In terms of new protocols, a lot of action is happening over at hackstasis, give there are subthreads its slightly easier to navigate. What we need is better organisation, if people have blood tests could they try and post them on this thread with symptoms - [Edited link out]

This is a complex issue with no easy, quick fix, the idea that supplementation etc. will fix this is wishful thinking in my opinion (though of course worth trying). However, given that some have reported temporary recovery from side effects such as sexual dysfunction, I am hopeful that this is not caused by permanent damage. It may just be a case of the body being stuck as the normal feedback mechanisms were interrupted by accutane and continued for some reason after finishing the drug.

Given that wide spread use of accutane and the number of patients who end up with no persisting side effects, this again makes me feel that whatever is causing persisting side effects is unlikely to result from destruction of a part of the brain. An effect like that seems far too dramatic and severe, besides if true its of no use to us and it means to damage is likely irreversible.

I think this revolves around receptors or the translation of receptor activation to producing a signal. Dopamine is almost definitely involved, and there are already established links between retinoids and dopamine signalling. But whether this is the primary effect or a downstream consequence is yet to be seen.

Has anyone with accutane induced sexual dysfunction had any of these blood tests done?:
1. Cortsiol
2. DHEA-S (I am very interested in this one, I had abnormal levels along with a few other PAS sufferers)
3. Progesterone

Also progress is being made, although it may be slow. We just need to keep investigating and trying new things, getting tests. I think at this stage, we can say with some likelihood that:
1.Serum levels of testosterone or DHT are not the problem (people with sides have reported both high and low levels of these hormones with no change in symptoms). Also numerous anecdotal reports of users changing their testosterone levels with hormones had no change in effect.

2. New research also indicates that despite what some people thought, FOXO is unlikely to be related to accutane action as highlighted by this study - https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/effects-of-isotretinoin-on-the-phosphoinositide3kinaseaktfoxo1pathway-and-molecular-functions-of-sz95-sebocytes-in-vitro-2155-9554-1000399.php?aid=89761

3. Unlikely to be related to altered levels of IGF-1, IGFBP-3 and GH. I've had all of these checked and they came back normal.

This is progress. The real issue is that there are no studies looking into this. Why? Because there is no money being raised to fund or organise studies. It sounds silly but if you want to get something done about this, a good place to start is start making money and when the time to fund a study comes. DONATE AND FUND IT!

26 minutes ago, brendan452 said:

What helpful information have you got because as far as I'm aware we're all still fucked

FCHawk put forward a protocol - he recovered. Did you or anyone on this forum try it?

PRAC are reviewing the psychiatric sides - If anyone has a story to tell, email them!

3 hours ago, brendan452 said:

What helpful information

Any information is helpful information.
The more the better.
Like what you said here in a different forum.
"I had an ultrasound done yesterday
liver kidneys stomach and intestines all fine no sign of any liver or kidney problems or damage.
i was hoping they would find something to be honest but I guess it's good that everything is fine"

This is helpful information.

9 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

Any information is helpful information.
The more the better.
Like what you said here in a different forum.
"I had an ultrasound done yesterday
liver kidneys stomach and intestines all fine no sign of any liver or kidney problems or damage.
i was hoping they would find something to be honest but I guess it's good that everything is fine"

This is helpful information.

How are your veins? How is your blood flow?

Havent heard anyone else mention theyve got varicose veins but blood flow seems to be an issue for many. Varicose veins are prob a result of this diminished blood flow...

I get the feeling that most of us will test fine with all organs, perhaps a fatty liver here & there but Im thinking oxygen supply is a problem, dont know the source of it other than to think there is chronic inflammation that needs to be addressed.

On 1/15/2018 at 5:53 PM, TrueJustice said:

How are your veins? How is your blood flow?

Havent heard anyone else mention theyve got varicose veins but blood flow seems to be an issue for many. Varicose veins are prob a result of this diminished blood flow...

I get the feeling that most of us will test fine with all organs, perhaps a fatty liver here & there but Im thinking oxygen supply is a problem, dont know the source of it other than to think there is chronic inflammation that needs to be addressed.

Don't think we will ever find one answer to all these problems but If you think oxygen has been compromised why
not try Hyperbaric Chamber treatment and see if it offers some relief?
This treatment is advised for vaxxed kids and TBI's

On 1/15/2018 at 6:15 PM, hatetane said:

Don't think we will ever find one answer to all these problems but If you think oxygen has been compromised why
not try Hyperbaric Chamber treatment and see if it offers some relief?
This treatment is advised for vaxxed kids and TBI's

I think isotretinoin restricts blood
flow my circulation especially the fingers are horrible since tan. How do you think it controls acne for decades in some people it has a continuous action thats for sure.

And yes watch VAXXED it shows you how corrupt the medical system is. All vaccines are toxic filth.

And why do people have dry eyes mouth skin after tan exposure??? Same thing blood flow is somehow impaired and joint pain.

And dont forget to go to whale.to web site its a treasure trove of valuable information.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGN_DV9UVSU

I find it highly unlikely that blood flow is the major issue here. To be fair I don't know what your side are? But how could altered blood flow really affect things like sexual function, depression etc. in a meaningful way. If the blood flow was the issue, that would mean blood flow to specific regions of the brain have been interrupted in such a way, that they no longer function properly. This is what happens in a stroke. Thankfully, there is no evidence that accutane affects blood flow and even if it did, I still can't find much of a link between the major symptoms of PAS and blood flow. Also if blood flow was an issue, it's effects would be non-specific meaning it could damage blood flow to any or all regions of the brain. Why then, do most PAS sufferers report the same or similar symptoms. Why has accutane never affected someones ability to move or walk. If it really did alter blood flow in such a way, there is no reason to think it couldn't have altered to blood flow to regions of the brain responsible for movement etc.

I'm also not surprised that organ tests have come back healthy and OK. As far as I can tell, the major organ (excluding the brain) affected by tane is the liver. The liver has a remarkable capacity to regenerate and heal, thus I expect after several years of quitting accutane. Provided you are not an alcoholic, any damage accutane may have done to the liver will have healed and repaired itself.

I'd bet money that the persisting psychological side effects caused by accutane which some people report such as sexual dysfunction, depression, depersonalisation etc. are caused by an imbalance or alteration in brain neurochemistry either due to: up/downregulation of receptors such as dopamine receptors in specific regions of the brain or a dysfunction in the ability of a neurotransmitter to activate/fire neural circuits.

Which regions of the brain? Look at brain regions with a high density of vitamin A receptors. Given the symptoms, this almost certainly involves a dysfunction in the reward circuitry of the brain also known as the mesolimbic pathway. Dysfunctions in dopamine signalling in this region can account for a whole host of reported side effects such as depression, lack of motivation, anhedonia, sexual dysfunction and emotional blunting. There are also research based links between retinoids and dopamine signalling. So its possible that accutane has knocked our brains out of normal balance and they have have remained unbalanced after stopping. This doesn't mean that the damage is permanent though. If a drug can knock you out of balance then there is no reason to discount that a drug can help knock you back into balance.

We can make great progress simply by looking at potential causes and theories, and then using existing research and logic to discount them. Any which hold up to scrutiny and still seem plausible can then be looked at in more depth.

What we need is data and specific research. An easy way people can contribute though is to get blood tests done for things like cortisol, progesterone, test, estrogen, DHEA-S etc.

2 hours ago, flynn said:

I find it highly unlikely that blood flow is the major issue here.

I think previous cardiovascular risk factor (perhaps unknown) might be the greatest determinant of possible serious side effects from Accutane exposure.

Cerebral Ischemia Probably Related to Isotretinoin - CiteSeerX

Isotretinoin increased carotid intima-media thickness in acne patients

Functional Brain Imaging Alterations in Acne Patients Treated With ...

Retinoic Acid and Affective Disorders: The Evidence for an Association

reports of thrombotic accidents, as well as some cases of hemorrhage in patients receiving isotretinoin, have been published. This drug seems to act on the coagulation process by a still unexplained mechanism.

I really appreciate those findings!!

I can show my Dr that sort of stuff, what we dont find out with these diagnoses is what they did for these people afterwards?

After that, what happened, how were they treated?

In the end we are just victims of allopathic medicine.

Reduced frontal lobe blood flow that about sums it up.

It is after all Chemotherapy good read about Chemotherapy on whale.to

Altered brain function was seen in ALL cases hmmm.

No wonder some derms dont even use it in their practice, this one derm I Skyped bluntly said we dont use it in our practice, we dont know the long term outcome of these patients.

Now remember thats coming from a DERMATOLOGIST, hmmm. That would explain the deformed frontal head I have after tan exposure.

Now it finally ALL makes sense.

After these findings this drug should have been banned for good , it litteraly changes how our bodies function.