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28 minutes ago, Duperele said:In Sweden where i live they have about 70 side effects mentioned on the leaflet. Including things such as "Diabetes" "degradation of muscles" "Inflamation in the liver" "increased body hair in women" "depression" "fatigue" "diverse bone defects" they even write than you can have "feelings of being sick". They literally mention everything, so if i would go on the drug i would be really suprised if i got a side effect not mentioned on the leaflet.
Those side effects weren't listed when the majority of people took the drug. Depression and the black box warning wasn't even listed pre 2008 and Roche fought the FDA as long as they could.
In fact, they were only added because of people complaining of said side effects. Each side effect you see, more than likely someone suffered before they listed it. So, your argument is only for the present time. Not for those who took it before 2015.
Do you even know how many malformed babies were born before they realized Accutane was a teratogen and they came up with the iPledge system.
2 minutes ago, macleod said:Those side effects weren't listed when the majority of people took the drug. Depression and the black box warning wasn't even listed pre 2008 and Roche fought the FDA as long as they could.In fact, they were only added because of people complaining of said side effects. Each side effect you see, more than likely someone suffered before they listed it. So, 1. that is a moronic statement 2. your argument is only for the present time
Do you even know how many malformed babies were born before they realized Accutane was a teratogen and they came up with the iPledge system.
Big guy here. So brave.
3 minutes ago, macleod said:Those side effects weren't listed when the majority of people took the drug. Depression and the black box warning wasn't even listed pre 2008 and Roche fought the FDA as long as they could.In fact, they were only added because of people complaining of said side effects. Each side effect you see, more than likely someone suffered before they listed it. So, your argument is only for the present time
Do you even know how many malformed babies were born before they realized Accutane was a teratogen and they came up with the iPledge system.
So brave.
It's not brave at all... It's just hard to live with severe acne.
3 minutes ago, macleod said:
I understand. in some cases it is necessary. i have edited my posts.
Yes. When you have 4 golf ball sized purple cysts on your face and your teacher asks who beat you up, it might be necessary, but if someone has 3 whiteheads and 2 more on the back, well then it's maybe not necessary, it will be a trade they will be making, perfect skin for your health.
Yes sorry i did not mean to offend you people, i just think we should be more careful, and not blame a drug that might be a miracle drug for some.
30 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:I havent seen that leaflet in years listing side effects!!
Does it still say.......... may cause dermatologists to be ignorant and prescribe unnecessarily ruining young lives
Is that still on there??
Dermatologist are not gods who know everything and are perfect. They are humans that are ignorant and greedy for money (many of them).
On 22.12.2017 at 3:49 PM, Justdry said:The problem with answering this question is the fact that i neglected to moisturize or use face wash for about 6 years so my skin became increasingly dry over this period until I had scales and it was pretty much f'ed, I always blamed accutane for it but i think it's because of the poor skincare routine post accutane.I now use a pH 5.5 soap free face wash, use starflower oil on my face at night and moisturizer during the day. I don't currently have any noticeable dryness but the damage left behind is almost crippling. My face still feels dry and tight after washing until i apply something to it but i darent leave it without moisturizer anymore so i'm not sure what it'd be like if i left it.
Adding Vitamin A in the form of cod liver oil to my routine is definitely helping to heal the skin barrier but i think this is just going to be a hell of a long process. My face looks and feels oily to the touch even late in the day now, but i'm not sure if that's the moisturizer or what. It used to be at it's driest at the end of the day.
I really do think that avoiding vitamin A for so many years is NOT the right thing to do - I've literally noticed no negative effects since taking cod liver oil and like i said in my previous post, this is the horniest i've felt in years but i don't know if that's a coincidence.
For the past year I had also developed a dry penis head - however, since taking cod liver oil it has started to go and isn't anywhere near as dry as it had gotten.
Thanks for the further explanation. How does you skin react to sunlight? Do you burn very fast? Do you experience any changes compared to your pre-accuntane skin?
It's actually quite funny, after everything I've been through, and learned about the drug, I don't blame my dermatologist one bit. He is an old man, probably retired now, and just so ignorant, but he has no idea and it's quite funny. Even if they do find the mechanisms of action in 20 years and it turns out to be risky and harmful, he probably still would convince himself he is a good doctor. You know how old educated men can be.
I think what hurts the most is finally realizing after 30 years that life is about manipulation of others. That society is designed to take advantage of other people. I blame growing up in the suburbs, sheltered and naive to realize. I think that is why I am so angry all the time. I am fighting within myself to convince myself that there is good in the world. And really Roche is just one of thousands of corporations in the world. It is an unwinnable battle. Money by any means necessary.
You know its funny. The things I have learned over the years. Did you know that Pfizer scientists created Viagra for cardiac issues originally, it was the erection side effect that they realized they could market to millions more peoples (similar to accutane). They hired a PR company to invent the term or disease "erectile dysfunction." There are only two countries in the world that pharmaceutical companies can hire advertising firms, and this is the U.S. and New Zealand.
8 hours ago, Duperele said:In Sweden where i live they have about 70 side effects mentioned on the leaflet. Including things such as "Diabetes" "degradation of muscles" "Inflamation in the liver" "increased body hair in women" "depression" "fatigue" "diverse bone defects" they even write than you can have "feelings of being sick". They literally mention everything, so if i would go on the drug i would be really suprised if i got a side effect not mentioned on the leaflet.
I will probably take the drug, but then im aware of what im going into, and i won't moan about how horrible it is.
I'm not spending much time on this.
The drug is still on the market for you to take.
So if you want to take it, take it.
Your doing some moaning about it yourself.
I was wonderingwhere your post came out of the blue to inflame things here, then I see.
Most of your post leading up to this you talked about how dangerous Accutane was,
now you might be forced to take it and you want to justify it.
Your in the wrong place for that. This particular thread is not for you.
For a lot of us Accutane was not justified. (you could be a exception)
Accutane should remain as a last option resort for those that need it, but it has a history of being over prescribed and that's not the patient's fault.
Those side effects you just listed depending on what's going on might not be temporary.
Some could be considered serious enough to increase risk of mortality.
13 hours ago, Duperele said:13 hours ago, macleod said:No, no one has said that they want to take the drug away from people. It is an argument you made up in your head Duperlele. Most of us know that it is an effective drug and should be treated as a last resort. Maybe 2/10 on this thread want the drug banned completely for the suffering they or a loved one has endured.
It is very easy to manipulate people, especially the older generation who listen to any doctor, and young ages 14-20 who listen to anyone.
Your education is not needed on this thread when people have already been affected adversely. It is very cowardly.Yes and i do not blame anyone who's not saying that the drug should be banned. I have watched this forum for a while and some people say that.
I would like to see accutane banned. Doctors are not trained or educated enough prescribe a drug of this magnitude.
Doctors don't believe that accutane causes half the side effects listed but you expect young patients to fully understand that the side effects are real, more likely to occur than not and that they may be permanent.
Let's not forget that they are only up-dating the PIL now to include sexual sides even though they have know about it right from the beginning.
Most importantly and the point everyone seem to miss - the pharmaceutical companies are not looking for safer ways to treat acne because they
are allowed to prescribe accutane.
If accutane was taken of the market resarch would be under way immediately to find other drugs to treat acne.
13 hours ago, Duperele said:Yes. When you have 4 golf ball sized purple cysts on your face and your teacher asks who beat you up, it might be necessary, but if someone has 3 whiteheads and 2 more on the back, well then it's maybe not necessary, it will be a trade they will be making, perfect skin for your health.Yes sorry i did not mean to offend you people, i just think we should be more careful, and not blame a drug that might be a miracle drug for some.
No parent or doctor has the right to decide that the risks outweigh the benefits!
Therefore no kid should be put on accutane.
Anyone who is prescribed accutane should be informed of all the side effects, this is not the case at the moment.
Patients are told that accutane is a miracle drug and advised by many dermatologist to ignore the PIL.
You seem to be blaming patients for taking accutane when they only have mild acne - when surly it is the responsibility of the dermatologist
to only prescribe for severe cases.
Accutane is being over prescribed and the risks are being downplayed.
Roche, the regulators and the prescribers are all acting in a criminal way - killing kids,destroying their mental health and causing them grevious
bodily harm.
Mass destruction - remind you of someone does it?
On 12/26/2017 at 6:44 PM, Kokodu said:Could someone say about progress in finasteride medication? As I remember there was some people who wanted to try it.
The user Idontknow1993 still seems to be doing well as of December 11th page 573 after doing a month cycle of finasteride some time in august or November. The user namelk is still on their cycle of finasteride and plans to finish it some time towards the end of December. I don't know anyone else who is currently trying this out. The [removed] forum; [Edited link out] discusses this some more.
4 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Losing ones hair in an attempt to cure Accutane side effects is not progress!!
Come on people, theres got to be another path surely??
Anyone getting out of this mess and getting their life back is progress!
Look at the positives from these recoveries - it pretty much says that no permanent damage has been done, the body is just stuck in a an abnormal state. Rather than discounting these people should be thinking about why it's worked and trying to understand the mechanisms better.
On 23/12/2017 at 2:01 PM, guitarman01 said:Cod liver oil was probably experiment 157 for me years ago. I dont know how much your taking or the ratio to vitamin D, but if you were to isolate Vitamin A, take a larger dose you would probably eventually find it having a negative impact on the skin. I did. Skin hardening, thinning, dryness, dry hair.
The fact that cod liver oil could be considered a nutritional dose of these vitamins does not make it of much concern for what you are taking.
I don't believe Vitamin A on a nutritional level has a negative impact and is still necessary for good health.Switching gears Looking at vitamin K's impact on the skin. Vitamin K proteins are found in the epidermis of the skin. They are vital for the production of collagen in bone. The same could possibly be said for skin health. vitamin k could be vital for thick, plump skin. Vitamin D could play a role in this as well as it "Assists"
Speaking of where Vitamin K proteins are found, they are "EVERYWHERE"
All major organs, the skin, the blood vessels, bone.
Alterations in this could trigger anything from a autoimmune reaction, inflammation or weakness.
For example vitamin K proteins are found in the HEART.
I have a small sag in my heart.
You miss my point. Im not saying vitamin A has a negative impact. Im theorizing that we have a lack of vitamin A after Accutane as our bodies cant process it the same way. Plus im betting the majority of us have avoided vitamin A since accutane too.
im honestly noticing the most benefits of anything I've tried to do. My skin is improving a lot and im ridiculously horny, which i havent been for about a year. Definitely putting this down to vitamin A - see below:
- Vitamin A is a vitamin for the production of sexual hormones in both men and woman. You may found it in many foods that you can incorporate into your daily diet. Foods like dried apricots or cabbage. Mainly you can find A vitamins in most fruits and vegetables and will contain the nutrients your body needs for an active sex drive.
12 minutes ago, Justdry said:You miss my point. Im not saying vitamin A has a negative impact. Im theorizing that we have a lack of vitamin A after Accutane as our bodies cant process it the same way. Plus im betting the majority of us have avoided vitamin A since accutane too.im honestly noticing the most benefits of anything I've tried to do. My skin is improving a lot and im ridiculously horny, which i havent been for about a hear. Definitely putting this down to vitamin A - see below:
- Vitamin A is a vitamin for the production of sexual hormones in both men and woman. You may found it in many foods that you can incorporate into your daily diet. Foods like dried apricots or cabbage. Mainly you can find A vitamins in most fruits and vegetables and will contain the nutrients your body needs for an active sex drive.
This is interesting ..did you try beta caroete or vitamin A (retinyl)? . ...back in 2010, I took retinyl capsules for 5-7 days. I was noticeably hornier and grew more hair, BUT got headaches, less sleep, and quite depressed. It took a few weeks to get out of that spiral. I've been too afraid to touch it since. Ill only eat natural beta carotene now and not even in capsules. but Ive never specifically tried to eat beta carotene veges everyday. Perhaps this could help. A few years ago I did get my serum A levels checked, which were well normal, but I know that isn't the whole issue.
6 hours ago, Justdry said:You miss my point. Im not saying vitamin A has a negative impact. Im theorizing that we have a lack of vitamin A after Accutane as our bodies cant process it the same way. Plus im betting the majority of us have avoided vitamin A since accutane too.im honestly noticing the most benefits of anything I've tried to do. My skin is improving a lot and im ridiculously horny, which i havent been for about a year. Definitely putting this down to vitamin A - see below:
- Vitamin A is a vitamin for the production of sexual hormones in both men and woman. You may found it in many foods that you can incorporate into your daily diet. Foods like dried apricots or cabbage. Mainly you can find A vitamins in most fruits and vegetables and will contain the nutrients your body needs for an active sex drive.
Apparently Finasteride fixes all this up....
Not only Accutane affects libido, I believe it can make the glans of my penis red and sore so much easily, I mean, if before the treatment in 2011 I was able to "fap" 3 times a day with no problems, now if I don'tlubricate the area I can barely do this 1 or 2 times every X days... I must be the luckiest man alive to only have lost the libido and had this side effect (dry skin?) in the penis, considering all other issues related here.
One would think this happens because now I can barely have pre-cum during the act, but it's clear to me the penis skin is not what used to be. I even thought once I caught some STD, but I am totally clean.
Could this mean I'll always have to use lubrication or some specific soap or product to prevent this from happening?
I would appreciate any tips about this and some explanation if this is also another consequence from the treatment. There's no indication my body has anything elsewrong.
Edit: just saw some texts explaining I have to acquire a proper (and more expensive) liquidsoap to prevent the penis from having this problem. Will see what I can do...
On 12/24/2017 at 5:29 PM, hatetane said:Most importantly and the point everyone seem to miss - the pharmaceutical companies are not looking for safer ways to treat acne because they
are allowed to prescribe accutane.
Your right I wasn't thinking about this. Accutane is the "let's systemically treat the entire body from the inside out and hope for the best when it comes to side effects." It's a chaotic approach similar to chemotherapy that can cause destruction and damage.
There should be a more targeted approach.
But yes, probably not a lot of incentive when Accutane is still on the market.
On 12/24/2017 at 1:18 AM, tanedout said:You should have a read through some of this stuff, it's much more in depth than discussions on here, but you seem to have a better understanding of biochemistry than most [Edited link out]
Im sorry, I dont think this is biochemistry. I think it's a con. I dont know why you continue to listen to this person or why he has a following. He seems very unhinged to me, is absolutely all over the place, and if someone questions him or his logic, he is very defiant.
This to me is a example of the patient pretending to be the doctor.
On 12/26/2017 at 8:44 PM, Kokodu said:Could someone say about progress in finasteride medication? As I remember there was some people who wanted to try it.
On 12/25/2017 at 2:51 AM, Perene said:I contacted Kevin Pezzi this week and he sent for free an ebook (PDF)
On 12/25/2017 at 2:51 AM, Perene said:One thing that the ebook says is this:
- Stringently avoid other things that may decrease the testosterone level or effect (such as phytoestrogens and antiandrogens).
^This is the person that came up with taking Finasteride to treat Accutane side effects.
You see now how much he has changed his tune about taking antiandrogens.
12 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Im sorry, I dont think this is biochemistry. I think it's a con. I dont know why you continue to listen to this person or why he has a following. He seems very unhinged to me, is absolutely all over the place, and if someone questions him or his logic, he is very defiant.
This to me is a example of the patient pretending to be the doctor. ^This is the person that came up with taking Finasteride to treat Accutane side effects.
You see now how much he has changed his tune about taking antiandrogens.
He's made some contradictions and some of things he's said are no doubt wrong, but he's also made suggestions which have helped people and he's actively trying to establish an understanding of what these drugs have done to people, and the mechanisms. Gives people some hope at the very least.
Everyone is pretty much on their own in this mess because everyone seems to be affected slightly differently (potentially the upregulated/downregulated situation, and other factors) - and speaking to a normal doctor about post-accutane issues is like speaking to a physicist about a physics problems where the laws of physics don't apply.