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16 hours ago, ailaeshiz said:21 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:Wiki is a paid for web site in fact paid and bought by pharmaceutical companies , never trust wiki.Whale.to has some of the best information availability anywhere FACT.
it's psuedoscience for nutters and the mentally deranged.
TRUTH!
These are Epigenetic changes going in the right direction, on a genetic level.
New MenaQ7 Vitamin K2 Study Validates Inflammation Benefits
May 31, 2016
http://www.nattopharma.com/new-menaq7-vitamin-k2-study-validates-inflammation-benefits/
-modulation of the immune and inflammatory biomarkers.
-significant because it confirms another mechanism by which vitamin K2 supports cardiovascular health by impact markers of inflammation.
Chronic inflammation is considered an underlying pathology of many diseases that remain poorly understood and treated, the researchers wrote. Cardiovascular disease (CVD), a leading cause of mortality in the world, is not only considered as a disorder of lipid accumulation, but also as a disease characterized by low-grade inflammation of the endothelial cells and an inappropriate healing response of the vascular lining.
researchers evaluated high-purity natural vitamin K2 (98.4% menaquinone-7, MK-7, as MenaQ7) in vitro for its potential to inhibit gene expression and production of pro-inflammatory markers by human monocyte-derived macrophages (hMDMs) from two sources (hMDMs and THP-1).
The results showed that the MK-7 form of vitamin K2 is able to dose dependently inhibit TNF-a, IL-1a, and IL-1b gene expression and protein production by healthy hMDMs in vitro. According to the researchers, In view of these encouraging findings on the anti-inflammatory properties of MK-7, we plan to test additional biomarkers of immune and inflammatory response in this form of vitamin K2 in vitro. This work may elucidate the anti-inflammatory mechanism of vitamin K2 and establish the potential biomarker targets in clinical testing of the role of MK-7 in the cardiovascular health as well as other chronic degenerative conditions.
Hello all,
here's my story (not only that, I'll raise some relevant points, too):
I am 33 as of 2017. I have never drank any alcohol or smoked anything in my life. Also never had any health problems besides a cold at best (no medication was used during the months I took Accutane in 2011). While doing the treatment I did the blood tests and visited doctors as required. Stayed at home most of this period, and since 2009 my diet and personal habits improved (before that I never really care about healthy foods). I believe I always had mild signs of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder
No need to tell most of time I spent at home prior to 2011 (since 2013 I returned to school and since 2015 I am going on a daily basis to a gym). I was planning on going to the latter for the first time around 2011. Scrapped that idea and only went months after the end of treatment, so I didn't exert myself. The only side effect I remember experiencing were dry lips.
At this point my libido was OK, despite my differences with women which were beginning to hint I was going to quit "FAP" and interest in them. However in 2012 I was all of sudden infatuated with a woman I saw at the gym and at the same time I had depression. There was a day when I even had an erection just by looking directly at her, it was embarassing and if my libido was 6, 7 in 2010-11, at this point I would say it was 10-11. So was my mood if higher numbers mean depression.
I won't go into many details and will sum things up: around 2011/12 my discomfort with society and women in general was higher than ever before (MGTOW and such) yet at the same time this woman at the gym I bumped months before was making me feel in a way I would never have behaved if I were my old self. I decided to drop the idea of approaching her after this erection in public (something that never happened with that intensity), and decided to leave that place (she went to my other one because I hinted where I was going there before leaving). At the time (2012-13) my depression made me feel so bad that I almost cried in public (at home I felt this way for days), and I never had a passionate interest in a woman BEFORE or felt bad like this. I have always been stoic, stable in my mood.
After a few years the depression was gone. So was the libido and interest in women, both of these things were decimated gradually. The irony is that while these things are pointed as ruining the life of people who took Accutane they were far from being a bad thing for me. Consider me someone that always wanted to be a celibate.
I moved to another gym (she, too) and for the first time since 1996 (when started) I stopped with the masturbation for months. Suffice to say Accutane caused depression and high libido, which dropped significantly up to 2017.
You remember I said it was 6, 7 around 2010-11 and 10 in 2012? Now it feels like 3. And 3 would be a man who only has curiosity about women, don't want to FAP or feel almost no pleasure in doing, and so on...
My sexual desire vanished completely.
I was able during the last years to spend more than a year without masturbation. This was a "record" that was never achieved in almost 2 decades.
And all the times I had sex since 2013 weren't enjoyable.
Another thing I noticed is that my penis is somehow more prone to become red and sore after a masturbation that rarely occurs, when BEFORE ACCUTANE I "fapped" 3, 4 times on a daily basis and wanted more. Now if I do this once a week it seems too much (was thinking this could be the soap used, and even if someone says I need to lubricate my penis, the truth is that it was never that sensible before), and of course the orgasm is light years from what once was.
I can't explain at length what has happened in my life and the way I think in this thread.
This would take a loooooong time and it's not relevant for what I am about to say.
I believe in my case the loss of libido can't be determined if it's from the use of Accutane or psychological. I bet it's 60% in the mind and 40% from the rest.
My recent blood tests showed I have low testosterone. I did two in August and November.
ALL NORMAL:
Uric acid = 4,9 mg/dL.
Creatinine = 0,9 mg/dL
Glucose = 92 mg/dL
CBC/Hemogram = all results OK
Lipid Profile: all OK. Example: total cholesterol 172 mg/dL. HDL cholesterol 68 mg/dL, etc.
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) = 20 U/L
Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) = 21 U/L
Urea = 47 mg/dL
T4 = 1,05 ng/dL
TSH = 2,0700 IU/mL
NOT OK:
25-Hydroxy Vitamin D = 26 ng/mL in August. After 3 months taking 7000 UI (2 pills, once a week), in November = 40,46 ng/mL (now normal levels. Will take one pill for 3 months to see how things will evolve from there)
Prolactin = 25 (in August and November). Normal for men = 2,60 - 13,10 ng/mL
Total testosterone = 3,09 ng/mL in August. 4,19 ng/mL in November (mostly because of the vitamin D)
Free testosterone = 6,15 before, now 6.91
I don't have any old test that shows my testosterone levels, yet I wonder if Accutane is responsible for this. I am not a candidate for TRT and will try to increase my test levels by visiting a nutritionist a month from now for him to prescribe the "ultimate" diet for me and will see if it's viable to get a personal trainer, to make sure what I do at the gym is appropriate and suited to increase my testosterone, just like a diet (and perhaps other supplements) would be.
This link seems to suggest 6 for normal testosterone levels:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/18/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/
And this one
https://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspx
Says "High-Intensity Exercise like Peak Fitness", "Strength Training", no stress and good sleep, among other things, are needed to increase testosterone.
Signs of low test are (besides low libido):
- Depressed mood
- Memory problems
- Impaired concentration
I don't see myself having these problems, besides not many disposition to do things at the gym. This is most likely fixed with a good diet and a few supplements such as Whey Protein.
Bottom line:
The problem with low libido is that it may very well be mostly psychological. I think that's the case and at the same time I am not 100% sure.
These links suggest that Accutane is responsible:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Accutane/comments/6h0qzy/low_libido/
And thinking back I am almost sure it is. Either way I need to make all these changes to improve myself, even if my sex drive remains the same. We need to be concerned with results from blood tests that indicate high prolactin, low vitamin D and testosterone.
There are zillions of links out there explaining that a few things in our diet are lowering our testosterone.
For a while I was thinking the depression caused by Accutane was the only culprit for the low libido, but there's a lot more that can cause this and E.D.
My goal right now is to eliminate possible reasons for my situation and if all of them are discarded and Accutane remains I'll makesure that taking this drug can kill the libido regardless of how perfect our lifestyle/diet/blood test results, etc. can be.
ok...good luck.
21 minutes ago, Iamme. said:Finished my 2 week 'detox' using allochol. started at 1 pill x3 a day, on day 7 it was 7 pilss x3 a day. and then back down to 1 x3 a day. Didnt produce a 'bile dump' as was intended, may try again in a few months.
How do we know when bile is dumping?
Ive done liver detoxes but I just trust the process, couldnt tell you if its the liver releasing crap or bile - how does one know??
24 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:How do we know when bile is dumping?Ive done liver detoxes but I just trust the process, couldnt tell you if its the liver releasing crap or bile - how does one know??
from what Ive read you normally puke up a bunch of acidic bile, much like the morning after drinking way too much, or it comes out the other end, much like eating too spicy a curry
On 12/23/2017 at 11:44 AM, Perene said:Hello all,
here's my story (not only that, I'll raise some relevant points, too):I am 33 as of 2017. I have never drank any alcohol or smoked anything in my life. Also never had any health problems besides a cold at best (no medication was used during the months I took Accutane in 2011). While doing the treatment I did the blood tests and visited doctors as required. Stayed at home most of this period, and since 2009 my diet and personal habits improved (before that I never really care about healthy foods). I believe I always had mild signs of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorderNo need to tell most of time I spent at home prior to 2011 (since 2013 I returned to school and since 2015 I am going on a daily basis to a gym). I was planning on going to the latter for the first time around 2011. Scrapped that idea and only went months after the end of treatment, so I didn't exert myself. The only side effect I remember experiencing were dry lips.
At this point my libido was OK, despite my differences with women which were beginning to hint I was going to quit "FAP" and interest in them. However in 2012 I was all of sudden infatuated with a woman I saw at the gym and at the same time I had depression. There was a day when I even had an erection just by looking directly at her, it was embarassing and if my libido was 6, 7 in 2010-11, at this point I would say it was 10-11. So was my mood if higher numbers mean depression.
I won't go into many details and will sum things up: around 2011/12 my discomfort with society and women in general was higher than ever before (MGTOW and such) yet at the same time this woman at the gym I bumped months before was making me feel in a way I would never have behaved if I were my old self. I decided to drop the idea of approaching her after this erection in public (something that never happened with that intensity), and decided to leave that place (she went to my other one because I hinted where I was going there before leaving). At the time (2012-13) my depression made me feel so bad that I almost cried in public (at home I felt this way for days), and I never had a passionate interest in a woman BEFORE or felt bad like this. I have always been stoic, stable in my mood.
After a few years the depression was gone. So was the libido and interest in women, both of these things were decimated gradually. The irony is that while these things are pointed as ruining the life of people who took Accutane they were far from being a bad thing for me. Consider me someone that always wanted to be a celibate.
I moved to another gym (she, too) and for the first time since 1996 (when started) I stopped with the masturbation for months. Suffice to say Accutane caused depression and high libido, which dropped significantly up to 2017.
You remember I said it was 6, 7 around 2010-11 and 10 in 2012? Now it feels like 3. And 3 would be a man who only has curiosity about women, don't want to FAP or feel almost no pleasure in doing, and so on...
My sexual desire vanished completely.
I was able during the last years to spend more than a year without masturbation. This was a "record" that was never achieved in almost 2 decades.
And all the times I had sex since 2013 weren't enjoyable.
Another thing I noticed is that my penis is somehow more prone to become red and sore after a masturbation that rarely occurs, when BEFORE ACCUTANE I "fapped" 3, 4 times on a daily basis and wanted more. Now if I do this once a week it seems too much (was thinking this could be the soap used, and even if someone says I need to lubricate my penis, the truth is that it was never that sensible before), and of course the orgasm is light years from what once was.
I can't explain at length what has happened in my life and the way I think in this thread.
This would take a loooooong time and it's not relevant for what I am about to say.
I believe in my case the loss of libido can't be determined if it's from the use of Accutane or psychological. I bet it's 60% in the mind and 40% from the rest.
My recent blood tests showed I have low testosterone. I did two in August and November.
ALL NORMAL:
Uric acid = 4,9 mg/dL.
Creatinine = 0,9 mg/dL
Glucose = 92 mg/dL
CBC/Hemogram = all results OK
Lipid Profile: all OK. Example: total cholesterol 172 mg/dL. HDL cholesterol 68 mg/dL, etc.
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) = 20 U/L
Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) = 21 U/L
Urea = 47 mg/dL
T4 = 1,05 ng/dL
TSH = 2,0700 IU/mLNOT OK:
25-Hydroxy Vitamin D = 26 ng/mL in August. After 3 months taking 7000 UI (2 pills, once a week), in November = 40,46 ng/mL (now normal levels. Will take one pill for 3 months to see how things will evolve from there)
Prolactin = 25 (in August and November). Normal for men = 2,60 - 13,10 ng/mL
Total testosterone = 3,09 ng/mL in August. 4,19 ng/mL in November (mostly because of the vitamin D)
Free testosterone = 6,15 before, now 6.91I don't have any old test that shows my testosterone levels, yet I wonder if Accutane is responsible for this. I am not a candidate for TRT and will try to increase my test levels by visiting a nutritionist a month from now for him to prescribe the "ultimate" diet for me and will see if it's viable to get a personal trainer, to make sure what I do at the gym is appropriate and suited to increase my testosterone, just like a diet (and perhaps other supplements) would be.
This link seems to suggest 6 for normal testosterone levels:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/18/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/And this one
https://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspxSays "High-Intensity Exercise like Peak Fitness", "Strength Training", no stress and good sleep, among other things, are needed to increase testosterone.
Signs of low test are (besides low libido):
- Depressed mood
- Memory problems
- Impaired concentrationI don't see myself having these problems, besides not many disposition to do things at the gym. This is most likely fixed with a good diet and a few supplements such as Whey Protein.
Bottom line:
The problem with low libido is that it may very well be mostly psychological. I think that's the case and at the same time I am not 100% sure.
These links suggest that Accutane is responsible:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Accutane/comments/6h0qzy/low_libido/
And thinking back I am almost sure it is. Either way I need to make all these changes to improve myself, even if my sex drive remains the same. We need to be concerned with results from blood tests that indicate high prolactin, low vitamin D and testosterone.
There are zillions of links out there explaining that a few things in our diet are lowering our testosterone.
For a while I was thinking the depression caused by Accutane was the only culprit for the low libido, but there's a lot more that can cause this and E.D.
My goal right now is to eliminate possible reasons for my situation and if all of them are discarded and Accutane remains I'll makesure that taking this drug can kill the libido regardless of how perfect our lifestyle/diet/blood test results, etc. can be.
Accutane is 100% responsible. I'd check out some of the threads on this forum below which is primarily people suffering from PFS, PSSD, post-accutane, post saw palmetto etc (all pretty much lead to the same side effects, loss of libido, ED etc). There's a ton of information to read through, but definitely positive steps being made on there.
[Edited link out]
Currently some PFS and PSSD people seeing good results from taking the amino acids l-histidine and l-cysteine.
On 12/23/2017 at 8:56 AM, guitarman01 said:These are Epigenetic changes going in the right direction, on a genetic level.
New MenaQ7 Vitamin K2 Study Validates Inflammation Benefits
May 31, 2016
http://www.nattopharma.com/new-menaq7-vitamin-k2-study-validates-inflammation-benefits/
-modulation of the immune and inflammatory biomarkers.
-significant because it confirms another mechanism by which vitamin K2 supports cardiovascular health by impact markers of inflammation.
Chronic inflammation is considered an underlying pathology of many diseases that remain poorly understood and treated, the researchers wrote. Cardiovascular disease (CVD), a leading cause of mortality in the world, is not only considered as a disorder of lipid accumulation, but also as a disease characterized by low-grade inflammation of the endothelial cells and an inappropriate healing response of the vascular lining.researchers evaluated high-purity natural vitamin K2 (98.4% menaquinone-7, MK-7, as MenaQ7) in vitro for its potential to inhibit gene expression and production of pro-inflammatory markers by human monocyte-derived macrophages (hMDMs) from two sources (hMDMs and THP-1).
The results showed that the MK-7 form of vitamin K2 is able to dose dependently inhibit TNF-a, IL-1a, and IL-1b gene expression and protein production by healthy hMDMs in vitro. According to the researchers, In view of these encouraging findings on the anti-inflammatory properties of MK-7, we plan to test additional biomarkers of immune and inflammatory response in this form of vitamin K2 in vitro. This work may elucidate the anti-inflammatory mechanism of vitamin K2 and establish the potential biomarker targets in clinical testing of the role of MK-7 in the cardiovascular health as well as other chronic degenerative conditions.
Actually interesting that one of the guys on HS who is I believe currently doing a degree in bio chemistry and clearly knows his stuff has mentioned vitamin K a number of times
Something I'll note. Spinach really helps. I've hypothesized that Vitamin K might be involved, but I don't really know where. I eat like 170g a day. That's like a whole bag. If I don't have the time to eat it all raw, I'll liquify it in a blender and drink it. Also I'll add in frozen blueberries and it actually tastes ok.
I'll keep reading up and let people know my thoughts on how this might convert over to PSSD.
[Edited link out]
@tanedout what kind of blood tests most users are taking to diagnose this low libido problem years after Accutane? Besides the ones I posted, theMRI scan and ultrasonography requested by the endocrinologist didn't show anything wrong. I noticed a few of you mentioned LH, FSH, DHT, SHBG... the ones I did are insufficient or they are enough to diagnose this? I also looked into STDs (HIV, hepatitis, etc.) and don't have anything besides herpes (IgG positive, IgM negative) which was caught sometime in my life and never manifested (no symptoms, like 2/3 of the world you don't even know you have it).
One thing's for sure, we can't rely on any doctor to understand an treat this, 99.9...% are useless and will always tell it's psychological or some other thing must be wrong besides that old Accutane treatment affecting you... for life.
Contrary to others for me it's not a problem to get rid of sex, FAP or any involvement with women. I don't want any of this at this point.
I just want to make sure that all other low test problems don't affect me (low test is not just about libido), and TRT is not an option since it's for $$$$ life $$$$ and my testosterone is insufficient (should be 6 or more instead of 3-4), but not that low (to justify TRT).
That's why I'll look into anything that can increase testosterone naturally in the next months. After the vitamin D pills I noticed a slight improvement in my libido.
3 hours ago, Justdry said:He'll probably find it's the vitamin A in spinach, rather than the K that is helping.
Cod liver oil was probably experiment 157 for me years ago. I dont know how much your taking or the ratio to vitamin D, but if you were to isolate Vitamin A, take a larger dose you would probably eventually find it having a negative impact on the skin. I did. Skin hardening, thinning, dryness, dry hair.
The fact that cod liver oil could be considered a nutritional dose of these vitamins does not make it of much concern for what you are taking.
I don't believe Vitamin A on a nutritional level has a negative impact and is still necessary for good health.
Switching gears Looking at vitamin K's impact on the skin. Vitamin K proteins are found in the epidermis of the skin. They are vital for the production of collagen in bone. The same could possibly be said for skin health. vitamin k could be vital for thick, plump skin. Vitamin D could play a role in this as well as it "Assists"
Speaking of where Vitamin K proteins are found, they are "EVERYWHERE"
All major organs, the skin, the blood vessels, bone.
Alterations in this could trigger anything from a autoimmune reaction, inflammation or weakness.
For example vitamin K proteins are found in the HEART.
I have a small sag in my heart.
3 hours ago, Perene said:@tanedout what kind of blood tests most users are taking to diagnose this low libido problem years after Accutane? Besides the ones I posted, theMRI scan and ultrasonography requested by the endocrinologist didn't show anything wrong. I noticed a few of you mentioned LH, FSH, DHT, SHBG... the ones I did are insufficient or they are enough to diagnose this? I also looked into STDs (HIV, hepatitis, etc.) and don't have anything besides herpes (IgG positive, IgM negative) which was caught sometime in my life and never manifested (no symptoms, like 2/3 of the world you don't even know you have it).
One thing's for sure, we can't rely on any doctor to understand an treat this, 99.9...% are useless and will always tell it's psychological or some other thing must be wrong besides that old Accutane treatment affecting you... for life.
Contrary to others for me it's not a problem to get rid of sex, FAP or any involvement with women. I don't want any of this at this point.
I just want to make sure that all other low test problems don't affect me (low test is not just about libido), and TRT is not an option since it's for $$$$ life $$$$ and my testosterone is insufficient (should be 6 or more instead of 3-4), but not that low (to justify TRT).
That's why I'll look into anything that can increase testosterone naturally in the next months. After the vitamin D pills I noticed a slight improvement in my libido.
IMO I'd forget about the low T, and definitely wouldn't go on TRT. The issues go far beyond just low T, otherwise people would've been curing themselves years ago, and many people have been stuck in this state for decades.
I'd get a hormone panel done, including progesterone, DHT and estrogen and electrolytes panel, including phosphate and potassium.
Think you may find you have high cortisol, high DHT, high progesterone, low e, low-ish phosphate and low potassium.
I'm increasingly convinced the root cause of the issue is (as has been speculated for a long time by the far more organised PFS lot) is down regulated progesterone receptors. A smaller set of people potentially are left with up-regulated receptors. There are no tests for this unfortunately, and as you've already realised doctors are utterly unhelpful with this stuff. I absolutely do not mention accutane to the doctor now with regards to issues. It pretty much just guarantees getting fobbed off with regards to whatever issue I'm there for.
1 hour ago, tanedout said:I'm increasingly convinced the root cause of the issue is (as has been speculated for a long time by the far more organised PFS lot) is down regulated progesterone receptors. A smaller set of people potentially are left with up-regulated receptors.
Again where did this information or theory originate from?
Is there any published possible evidence that could relate to or reinforce this idea?
Any scientific links to support this theory I would like to look at.
Thanks.
On 12/24/2017 at 12:42 AM, guitarman01 said:Again where did this information or theory originate from?
Is there any published possible evidence that could relate to or reinforce this idea?
Any scientific links to support this theory I would like to look at.
Thanks.
It's essentially theoretical, I don't remember seeing any studies specifically, although there was a PFS foundation paper which did reference some studies - that must be from 2010 or something, but I don't have the link to hand.
Bottom line is, based on some of these theories quite a few people have actually made some good gains already from things like anti-progestins like RU486 and ella, some on a minerals protocol, and more recently taking specific amino acids based on the theory that the the protein structure known as the 'zinc finger' is out of sorts in response to the down regulated receptors. You should have a read through some of this stuff, it's much more in depth than discussions on here, but you seem to have a better understanding of biochemistry than most [Edited link out]
@mariovitaliyou should check this out too, your knowhow with statistical analysis software could be a real benefit here
2 hours ago, tanedout said:IMO I'd forget about the low T, and definitely wouldn't go on TRT. The issues go far beyond just low T, otherwise people would've been curing themselves years ago, and many people have been stuck in this state for decades.I'd get a hormone panel done, including progesterone, DHT and estrogen and electrolytes panel, including phosphate and potassium.
Think you may find you have high cortisol, high DHT, high progesterone, low e, low-ish phosphate and low potassium.
I'm increasingly convinced the root cause of the issue is (as has been speculated for a long time by the far more organised PFS lot) is down regulated progesterone receptors. A smaller set of people potentially are left with up-regulated receptors. There are no tests for this unfortunately, and as you've already realised doctors are utterly unhelpful with this stuff. I absolutely do not mention accutane to the doctor now with regards to issues. It pretty much just guarantees getting fobbed off with regards to whatever issue I'm there for.
People have recovered from several different methods including TRT..
stop telling people to forget about certain things when it could be their personal key. Were all different, otherwise all the recoveries wouldnt be so all over the board...
13 minutes ago, Colinboko said:People have recovered from several different methods including TRT..stop telling people to forget about certain things when it could be their personal key. Were all different, otherwise all the recoveries wouldnt be so all over the board...
IMO = In My Opinion
I'm not telling him anything, I'm giving him 'my opinion' based on what I know. Loads of people have tried TRT on the PFS forums with almost no success. You stand a good chance of shutting down your own testosterone production going on it, so once you're on, you're potentially on it for life. It increases the risk of stroke, blood clots, hormonal cancers etc.
Everyone is on their own essentially, so if you want to get on TRT, then go for it. That guy asked for some advice, so I've given him some based on 'my opinions'.
44 minutes ago, Colinboko said:People have recovered from several different methods including TRT..stop telling people to forget about certain things when it could be their personal key. Were all different, otherwise all the recoveries wouldnt be so all over the board...
Nothing can be discarded. We may all think Accutane is the sole responsible for our body changes, but if we don't do anything required to improve ourselves we will never be sure of that.
A healthy lifestyle and diet/workout routine carefully devised (especially to increase testosterone) might not fix things as they once were before the treatment, but can at least mitigate the Accutane side effects in the same way that someone with psychological problems and depression has their libido affected and is treated for it. A lot of things can decrease testosterone and as you all know low test means low libido, fatigue and other cognitive problems.
What we should be concerned is in eliminating anything else that can be affecting our health and we haven't discovered or taken care yet.
I am going to ask another endocrinologist (and also a urologist) to perform these further blood tests (LH, FSH, DHT, etc.) and a spermogram.
Male hypogonadism can have these symptoms in adulthood:
Erectile dysfunction
Infertility
Decrease in beard and body hair growth
Decrease in muscle mass
Development of breast tissue (gynecomastia)
Loss of bone mass (osteoporosis)
It can also cause mental and emotional changes. As testosterone decreases, some men may experience symptoms similar to those of menopause in women. These may include:
Fatigue
Decreased sex drive
Difficulty concentrating
Hot flashes
I don't think I have this disease, but it won't hurt to be absolutely sure.
@tanedout TRT is out of the question in my case. I don't want a commitment for the rest of my life, and a total testosterone of 4 is considered normal and don't need this sort of procedure. That's why I'll try other stuff to increase naturally. Besides the lack of libido I don't think I had all the other symptoms of low test.
6 hours ago, Perene said:Nothing can be discarded. We may all think Accutane is the sole responsible for our body changes, but if we don't do anything required to improve ourselves we will never be sure of that.A healthy lifestyle and diet/workout routine carefully devised (especially to increase testosterone) might not fix things as they once were before the treatment, but can at least mitigate the Accutane side effects in the same way that someone with psychological problems and depression has their libido affected and is treated for it. A lot of things can decrease testosterone and as you all know low test means low libido, fatigue and other cognitive problems.
What we should be concerned is in eliminating anything else that can be affecting our health and we haven't discovered or taken care yet.
Oh yea? Is that it? Just out of curiosity, have you been through all 580 pages of this thread? Have you been through all of the pages on PFS forums? Did you really just reiterate rhetoric that has been posted a million times before?
The reason I am derailing your education train is because the libido issues of Isotretinoin & Finasteride have been looked at thoroughly by many sufferers, some of which I know personally, who hold degrees in law or accounting. If you want to encourage or motivate yourself, I understand, but what is this "we need to do this this" "we can't assume it's solely Accutane" bit about?
It sounds as if you had problems before Accutane. Many of us didn't.
3 hours ago, tanedout said:Yup, ignorant guy! Will change his opinion if he goes on this drug and gets to 'join the club' and enjoy the side effects which are not on 'the leaflet'.
Takes the already paved high road by talking down to people that are down and out affected adversely. Educating those beneath him when he knows dick all about isotretinoin. A drug off label marketed to millions of teenagers (mild to moderate acne) by a 180 billion dollar company in multiple continents. But smarty pants Mcgee has it all figured out. Must tell the people what the raw deal is, from his perch, high above lesser men.
Regardless of whether one was to choose TRT or not, how would it work if there is atrophy of the Hippocampus at play with us victims??
Can we please explore this before another 100 pages pass, enough of us have tested hormones to now assume for the most part they are within range give or take a few people, weve got to assume its the mechanism that controls hormones not the hormones themselves.
Im not going to say TRT wont provide relief but Ill bet my bottom dollar once again its not the source of the problem.
I dont know if the Hippocampus can be repaired but its the question we need to continue to ask, at least find out what we can!!
@macleod When did I say that was it? You are not listening to me: I clearly stated that when we visit ANY DOCTOR it doesn't matter what we discover about the side effects of Accutane, they will always think something else has caused what ails us.
And they aren't wrong in any way. Most people who take Accutane don't follow to the letter the warnings of what not to do during treatment, or had healthy lifestyles before or after. Most of them had depression, or some disease they don't even know.
What seem "obvious" to you it's precisely what should be repeated millions of times and printed/read every single day. Here's a fact that doesn't need further study: most HUMANS are idiots. The doctors and patients. That's why we can't pinpoint what is really affecting us.
I stated that everything ELSE should be important because it is and it will help a lot to prove that it's Accutane that caused it.
I said I always had a good health and did this treatment with no oversights. So what's wrong with me (or at least what I think it's wrong due to Accutane's interference)?
Loss of libido.
This is what I was complaining about, and I consider a miracle (due to how bad this drug is) this was the only side effect lasting to this date.
Do you have any idea how many things can affect sexual desire and performance?
So what I am suggesting? Do a lot of tests to discard possible diseases you don't even know you may have.
Get a second opinion and don't restrict yourself to a dermatologist, check with doctors from other specialties.
I said we can't discard anything that lowers testosterone, I remember a few years before this treatment I started changing my diet to a healthier one and consuming (for example) dairy products... which some say that lower testosterone. Funny thing is that when I had more weight I had a healthier libido, which is also due to less fat in my current diet. So after all these years ingesting milk I'll try something else, like coffee, not to mention supplements which can be prescribed when I check next month with a nutritionist if my diet is adequate.
You on the other hand seem to ignore that all these little things combined can impact someone like me in the same way Accutane did from 2011 onwards. Really, I never thought in 6 years that treatment was responsible for my loss of libido. I only thought about it months ago and was lucky to find these reports.
Not even once that thought crossed my mind because I was already hinting BEFORE that I wanted to go this path of not caring about sex/masturbation or women.
That just proves it's very complicated to assign blame to this drug and if you really knew me you would be in serious doubt. I said that a year later my libido increased, I had depression and it was gradually reduced. How do you expect me to think Accutane causes sexual dysfunction? All this time I thought this was psychological.
"Didn't you guys read the leaflet?"
The manufacturer, just like all doctors who prescribe this drug, claim to be unaware of such adverse effects, which are often disregarded due to lack of conclusive evidence that proves things like long-term sexual dysfunction. The leaflet never warned anyone of this side effect and anyone here knows that proving that a drug can cause something of this magnitude is like visiting North Korea and trying to convince everyone that was brainwashed there since birth that a real world exists besides that one concocted by the "great leader". It would be quicker to convince your wall instead of all these "zombies", no matter how much compeling evidence you have.
They won't listen and there's too much at $take.
In my case and many others I only did the treatment because conventional ones weren't helping with my back acne. They were only a waste of time and money.
I am sure if I had followed these same "health tips" posted before or waited a few years the acne would be long gone by now, however no one told me the "obvious" which is now annoying @macleod. All these doctors and manufacturers only care about making money.
They don't care in any way about the truth.
"It is rather stupid to demand this drug being taken of market. It is a cruel drug, but some people do really need it because their acne is so damn severe. It is a last resort drug, and i should be only taken by people who have SEVERE SEVERE acne, like acne that does not only affect their apperance but also hurts and makes life harder."
I would agree with that statement if doctors/manufacturers and pharm companies were held accountable for distributing this drug for people who may cure themselves another way or had the option to wait for a few years to see if their acne would subside. Instead you seem to suggest it's never their fault, only the layman who take leaflets at face value.
"You people that had mild to moderate acne have no right to say that this drug should be taken of market, it's your own fault. You should have been more careful."
Yep, our fault. We are the villains here, not people who dedicated their entire lives studying to become doctors and should know better before authorizing such treatments (at least in my case I had to follow some procedures which no other drug bought anywhere had, so you can't even accuse me of purchasing and using at my own risk), not multi billion dollar companies with obligations to remove their own drugs from the market if their side effects are bad enough or if there's something not fully known such as ED and low libido as a result of it...
Really?
Next thing you are going to say is that Roche and others should not even care about investigating anything, only us, the idiots who trusted this drug would work as intended.
"And don't tell me it's the doctors fault, "My dermatologist said there would be no side effects". Would you take antidepressants for mild headache when the doctor would say there would be no side effects? Why would you take accutane for mild acne when the doctor said there would be no side effects."
OK, fine. I won't trust any doctor. So who should I trust? Roche? Google? You?
Acne.org, a website that I only discovered yesterday after 2 decades since I started using the internet?
I had no obligation to know s.hit about any of this. And no one here had or HAVE. If you think we should be specialists then only well-informed people should take any medicine, and all the others should shut up and die, since they are all ignorants especially of things they couldn't possibly know.
"I admire you people, those who try repair the damage done, this is a fantastic community. But those who moan about how bad the drug is and that it should be removed are simply silly. Amputating arms can save peoples lives, for example in case of severe infections. If you go and amputate your arm because of a cut on your finger and the moan about how amputating arms should be illegal and complain about how living with one arm is hard. Isn't that stupid?
I am really sorry for people with severe acne that took it and now have those side effects, life can really be cruel... But if you had like 5 zits on your face and messed up your body, then it's hard to really be sorry for you."
The patient is never to blame if he did ALL THE PROCEDURE as prescribed by the doctor and the leaflet you are talking about. I would agree that IT COULD be our fault if we didn't do something we were told, by the doctors and the leaflet.
For example: a pregnant woman can't take this drug and this is clearly stated there. If she does (provided the information is there written in clear and precise words) then she assumed the risks.
Have you ever heard of the hippocratic oath? Iatrogenesis?
Apparently not...
10 hours ago, tanedout said:Yup, ignorant guy! Will change his opinion if he goes on this drug and gets to 'join the club' and enjoy the side effects which are not on 'the leaflet'.
In Sweden where i live they have about 70 side effects mentioned on the leaflet. Including things such as "Diabetes" "degradation of muscles" "Inflamation in the liver" "increased body hair in women" "depression" "fatigue" "diverse bone defects" they even write than you can have "feelings of being sick". They literally mention everything, so if i would go on the drug i would be really suprised if i got a side effect not mentioned on the leaflet.
I will probably take the drug, but then im aware of what im going into, and i won't moan about how horrible it is.
Here you have a link to the leaflet. (of course it's in swedish) under number 4 you have all side effects.
https://www.fass.se/LIF/product?userType=2&nplId=20120306000024
7 hours ago, Perene said:@macleod When did I say that was it? You are not listening to me: I clearly stated that when we visit ANY DOCTOR it doesn't matter what we discover about the side effects of Accutane, they will always think something else has caused what ails us.
And they aren't wrong in any way. Most people who take Accutane don't follow to the letter the warnings of what not to do during treatment, or had healthy lifestyles before or after. Most of them had depression, or some disease they don't even know.
What seem "obvious" to you it's precisely what should be repeated millions of times and printed/read every single day. Here's a fact that doesn't need further study: most HUMANS are idiots. The doctors and patients. That's why we can't pinpoint what is really affecting us.
I stated that everything ELSE should be important because it is and it will help a lot to prove that it's Accutane that caused it.
I said I always had a good health and did this treatment with no oversights. So what's wrong with me (or at least what I think it's wrong due to Accutane's interference)?
Loss of libido.
This is what I was complaining about, and I consider a miracle (due to how bad this drug is) this was the only side effect lasting to this date.
Do you have any idea how many things can affect sexual desire and performance?
So what I am suggesting? Do a lot of tests to discard possible diseases you don't even know you may have.
Get a second opinion and don't restrict yourself to a dermatologist, check with doctors from other specialties.
I said we can't discard anything that lowers testosterone, I remember a few years before this treatment I started changing my diet to a healthier one and consuming (for example) dairy products... which some say that lower testosterone. Funny thing is that when I had more weight I had a healthier libido, which is also due to less fat in my current diet. So after all these years ingesting milk I'll try something else, like coffee, not to mention supplements which can be prescribed when I check next month with a nutritionist if my diet is adequate.
You on the other hand seem to ignore that all these little things combined can impact someone like me in the same way Accutane did from 2011 onwards. Really, I never thought in 6 years that treatment was responsible for my loss of libido. I only thought about it months ago and was lucky to find these reports.
Not even once that thought crossed my mind because I was already hinting BEFORE that I wanted to go this path of not caring about sex/masturbation or women.
That just proves it's very complicated to assign blame to this drug and if you really knew me you would be in serious doubt. I said that a year later my libido increased, I had depression and it was gradually reduced. How do you expect me to think Accutane causes sexual dysfunction? All this time I thought this was psychological.
"Didn't you guys read the leaflet?"
The manufacturer, just like all doctors who prescribe this drug, claim to be unaware of such adverse effects, which are often disregarded due to lack of conclusive evidence that proves things like long-term sexual dysfunction. The leaflet never warned anyone of this side effect and anyone here knows that proving that a drug can cause something of this magnitude is like visiting North Korea and trying to convince everyone that was brainwashed there since birth that a real world exists besides that one concocted by the "great leader". It would be quicker to convince your wall instead of all these "zombies", no matter how much compeling evidence you have.
They won't listen and there's too much at $take.
In my case and many others I only did the treatment because conventional ones weren't helping with my back acne. They were only a waste of time and money.
I am sure if I had followed these same "health tips" posted before or waited a few years the acne would be long gone by now, however no one told me the "obvious" which is now annoying @macleod. All these doctors and manufacturers only care about making money.
They don't care in any way about the truth.
"It is rather stupid to demand this drug being taken of market. It is a cruel drug, but some people do really need it because their acne is so damn severe. It is a last resort drug, and i should be only taken by people who have SEVERE SEVERE acne, like acne that does not only affect their apperance but also hurts and makes life harder."
I would agree with that statement if doctors/manufacturers and pharm companies were held accountable for distributing this drug for people who may cure themselves another way or had the option to wait for a few years to see if their acne would subside. Instead you seem to suggest it's never their fault, only the layman who take leaflets at face value.
"You people that had mild to moderate acne have no right to say that this drug should be taken of market, it's your own fault. You should have been more careful."
Yep, our fault. We are the villains here, not people who dedicated their entire lives studying to become doctors and should know better before authorizing such treatments (at least in my case I had to follow some procedures which no other drug bought anywhere had, so you can't even accuse me of purchasing and using at my own risk), not multi billion dollar companies with obligations to remove their own drugs from the market if their side effects are bad enough or if there's something not fully known such as ED and low libido as a result of it...
Really?
Next thing you are going to say is that Roche and others should not even care about investigating anything, only us, the idiots who trusted this drug would work as intended.
"And don't tell me it's the doctors fault, "My dermatologist said there would be no side effects". Would you take antidepressants for mild headache when the doctor would say there would be no side effects? Why would you take accutane for mild acne when the doctor said there would be no side effects."
OK, fine. I won't trust any doctor. So who should I trust? Roche? Google? You?
Acne.org, a website that I only discovered yesterday after 2 decades since I started using the internet?
I had no obligation to know s.hit about any of this. And no one here had or HAVE. If you think we should be specialists then only well-informed people should take any medicine, and all the others should shut up and die, since they are all ignorants especially of things they couldn't possibly know.
"I admire you people, those who try repair the damage done, this is a fantastic community. But those who moan about how bad the drug is and that it should be removed are simply silly. Amputating arms can save peoples lives, for example in case of severe infections. If you go and amputate your arm because of a cut on your finger and the moan about how amputating arms should be illegal and complain about how living with one arm is hard. Isn't that stupid?
I am really sorry for people with severe acne that took it and now have those side effects, life can really be cruel... But if you had like 5 zits on your face and messed up your body, then it's hard to really be sorry for you."
The patient is never to blame if he did ALL THE PROCEDURE as prescribed by the doctor and the leaflet you are talking about. I would agree that IT COULD be our fault if we didn't do something we were told, by the doctors and the leaflet.
For example: a pregnant woman can't take this drug and this is clearly stated there. If she does (provided the information is there written in clear and precise words) then she assumed the risks.
Have you ever heard of the hippocratic oath? Iatrogenesis?
Apparently not...
Yes you should not trust a doctor to 100 % Percent, if you are about to take such a drug you should always read about it by yourself. I do not say you are the villians. My point is that this drug has saved so many lives, people who had severe acne that left horrible scars and haunted them for years. Would you like the drug taken away from those people?
No, no one has said that they want to take the drug away from people. It is an argument you made up in your head Duperlele. Most of us know that it is an effective drug and should be treated as a last resort. Maybe 2/10 on this thread want the drug banned completely for the suffering they or a loved one has endured.
It is very easy to manipulate people, especially the older generation who listen to any doctor, and young ages 14-20 who listen to anyone.
Your education is not needed on this thread when people have already been affected adversely.
4 minutes ago, macleod said:No, no one has said that they want to take the drug away from people. It is an argument you made up in your head Duperlele. Most of us know that it is an effective drug and should be treated as a last resort. Maybe 2/10 on this thread want the drug banned completely for the suffering they or a loved one has endured.
It is very easy to manipulate people, especially the older generation who listen to any doctor, and young ages 14-20 who listen to anyone.
Your education is not needed on this thread when people have already been affected adversely. It is very cowardly.
Yes and i do not blame anyone who's not saying that the drug should be banned. I have watched this forum for a while and some people say that.