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18 hours ago, Colinboko said:Just been perusing propecia forums and literally every guy on there seems to have been with just a huge initial crash and things were just shit from there on out.
Anyone else experience their first onset of symptoms while still on the drug? Cause I know for a fact I did and there wasn't like a huge CRASH like everyone talks about. I just started feeling crappy and then my symptoms kept getting gradually worse as time went on.
Theres a third scenario where you can cop both, firstly the biggest thing that hit me and it was overnight when I was on tane in 1997 was the depression, slowly over the last 20 years though I've got all the other things going on as well such as thinning hair, eye floaters, joint pain, light sensitivity, chronic fatigue, no oil production, slow wound healing, unwanted hair, varicose veins ( extreme oxidisation) muscle weakness etc etc.
The point is, one can be "Accutained" in all sorts of ways!!
On 10/28/2017 at 1:11 AM, IndigoRushReturns said:
Nice work!!!
[Edited video out]
Stranger Things - binged on season 2 last night as it goes 
I have heard that Vit E can help those with excess Vit A - I read this not in relation to Accutane but you never know, the same principles should apply, E is also fat soluble as you would know, you can also get it in a cream which I've yet to try.
Have you heard of Andreas Moritz and his book on Liver/Gallbladder cleansing? You'll get plenty of people saying it's all crap but take a read if nothing else on his method, basically ridding stones and sludge from liver/gallbladder and getting that filter working properly again with good bile flow etc.
Ive done 5 cleanses, it's a pain the arse literally but mentally quite rewarding as it includes fasting and cleaning the colon.
C'mon Indigo i wouldn't recommend something if i myself weren't willing to try it, or I didn't read scientific evidence recommending it, for neurological issues (depression) post accutane. Yes mifepristone happens to be used in conjunction for female abortion but it's backed by very smart Chinese scientists that discovered a pattern in vivo to break this neuro/hormonal negative feedback loop.
[Edited link out]
Can't just tell people its crazy and not to try it over say an SSRI or people considering suicide as an option.
On 10/28/2017 at 7:45 PM, macleod said:C'mon Indigo i wouldn't recommend something if i myself weren't willing to try it, or I didn't read scientific evidence recommending it, for neurological issues (depression) post accutane. Yes mifepristone happens to be used in conjunction for female abortion but it's backed by very smart Chinese scientists that discovered a pattern in vivo to break this neuro/hormonal negative feedback loop.
[Edited link out]
Can't just tell people its crazy and not to try it over say an SSRI or people considering suicide as an option.
Agreed, but unfortunately the level of discussion on this thread is just so far behind PFS, PSSD, CFS people. I think the fact it's a single thread really doesn't help as it just goes in circles, but only a few people are really doing at-home research, getting in depth testing done and trying to understand this to a more granular level.
RU486 (Mifepristone) is only an abortion drug if; a) you're a pregnant women, and b ) you take a very high dosage.
It has numerous other uses, such as being prescribed for Cushings Disease (which is interesting as I think post Accutane people tend to suffer from that). One of the PFS guys who has doctor who has taken an interest in his PFS case, and he has got this on prescription from her as she thinks the theory behind it makes a lot of sense.
Some of the PFS guys who've tried a short cycle of RU486 (like 3 days at 10mg per day, then stop and wait for the rebound) have improved their conditions, but it doesn't seem like it's a magic bullet, although looks like one of the most promising things yet.Most people seem to improve libido or sensitivity from it.
17 minutes ago, tanedout said:You kind of completely miss the point of my post!
Yeah well this tread has been going on for what a decade progress has been 0 lol. Lots of ideas but I guarantee you the chronic cellular dehydration is permanent, people need to realize this.
My greatest improvement has been in taking more pure maunawai water .
My fav quote from dr Hamer is œ Whoever masterminded this chemo torture deserves a monument in hell œ.
In the near future they will consider chemotherapy and act of crime , poison cannot heal the human body.
Dr Hamer is the inventor of German new medicine œ All disease is provoked by unexpected trauma ( accutane ) caused by a shock event.
Its called the body mind connection resolve the trauma ( accutane ) and the body will heal it self.
New german medicine.com
On 10/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, IndigoRushReturns said:
i have gilberts syndrome as well. well, justhigh bilirubin. i dontbelievei ever had high bilirubin before taking accutane though. so its a chicken and the egg question.
if you have gilberts ,you conjugate at 30% the normal rate.
the same UGT enzyme that conjugatesbilirubin isalso responsible for the glucuronidationof accutane.
PHASE 2 ... read up on NRF2
every single person who has ever reported feeling better has unknowinglypromoted the NRF2 response. either from water fasting, TUDCA, CBD oil, etc etc etc.
NRF2 as a determinant of cellular resistance in retinoic acid cytotoxicity.
accutane has been proven to shut down the NRF2 response
| NFE2L2 | Nuclear factor (erythroid-derived 2)-like 2 | Inhibited by retinoic acid via RARalpha resulting in lack of expression of Nrf2 target genes |
1 hour ago, Gladiatoro said:Google this 122 year old there you will find the secret to a long healthy life and trust me its not what you think. Again its the body mind connection NOT life style in other words NO mental stress.
If you believe that the chronic cellular dehydration is permanent no amount of German medicine will help??
Im at this stage thinking its permanent too, put it this way, theres no sign of it changing after 20 years!!
Still no moisture - want my old skin back, Ill take the acne if thats the case, just want sebaceous glands to work again.....I dont think an abortion pill can do anything for that?
4 hours ago, TrueJustice said:If you believe that the chronic cellular dehydration is permanent no amount of German medicine will help??Im at this stage thinking its permanent too, put it this way, theres no sign of it changing after 20 years!!
Still no moisture - want my old skin back, Ill take the acne if thats the case, just want sebaceous glands to work again.....I dont think an abortion pill can do anything for that?
One derm said most people just notice dryness I think we are stuck with that after 25 years nothing has changed I consider myself lucky I dont have stomach problems or erectile did function, thats all dosage related anyways.
So the big question is does accutane cause depression I would say not necessarily again I would say that person will have to live with reduced brain function for the rest of his her life / FACT. Since the front orbital cortex is permanent altered roughly 20% again FACT.
More like emotional bluntness that comes and goes.
This drug will go down inhistory as another failed chemotherapy agent causing much carniage along the way just like the rest of the pharmaceutical so called miracle drugs.
Eventually people will go back to natural treatments used for successfuly for thousands of years and ditch the pHARMa poisons.
Another derm I talked to told me bluntly I dont use it in my practice even for severe acne which btw most of us didnt have , we dont know the long term outcome of these patients he stated.
24 minutes ago, Gladiatoro said:One derm said most people just notice dryness I think we are stuck with that after 25 years nothing has changed I consider myself lucky I dont have stomach problems or erectile did function, thats all dosage related anyways.So the big question is does accutane cause depression I would say not necessarily again I would say that person will have to live with reduced brain function for the rest of his her life / FACT. Since the front orbital cortex is permanent altered roughly 20% again FACT.
More like emotional bluntness that comes and goes.
This drug will go down inhistory as another failed chemotherapy agent causing much carniage along the way just like the rest of the pharmaceutical so called miracle drugs.Eventually people will go back to natural treatments used for successfuly for thousands of years and ditch the pHARMa poisons.
Another derm I talked to told me bluntly I dont use it in my practice even for severe acne which btw most of us didnt have , we dont know the long term outcome of these patients he stated.
But the "German New Medicine" you mention, who is that for??
Everyone but an accutane patient? I'm trying to find out if you're indicating this will help us or you are just making the point that people in general should look at German new medicine for their problems?
Its not much use to me if it can't help me......
4 hours ago, TrueJustice said:But the "German New Medicine" you mention, who is that for??Everyone but an accutane patient? I'm trying to find out if you're indicating this will help us or you are just making the point that people in general should look at German new medicine for their problems?
Its not much use to me if it can't help me......
You're actually responding to this guy....?
Who believes it's "chronic dehydration"
LOL
8 hours ago, Taneraped said:Do any of you guys need to sleep unusual amounts? Personally, ever since taking accutane, I have needed to sleep for 12 hours a day or more in addition to general fatigue which I believe comes from having low testosterone.
I believe the fatigue portion of this is definitely hormone related
9 hours ago, TrueJustice said:If you believe that the chronic cellular dehydration is permanent no amount of German medicine will help??Im at this stage thinking its permanent too, put it this way, theres no sign of it changing after 20 years!!
Still no moisture - want my old skin back, Ill take the acne if thats the case, just want sebaceous glands to work again.....I dont think an abortion pill can do anything for that?
"It's permanent too"
Dude.. you're SO up and down. And you haven't tested all that much. How can you believe this is irreversible? Stop giving in
1 hour ago, Colinboko said:You're actually responding to this guy....?Who believes it's "chronic dehydration"
LOL
I believe the fatigue portion of this is definitely hormone related "It's permanent too"
Dude.. you're SO up and down. And you haven't tested all that much. How can you believe this is irreversible? Stop giving in
Plenty of people have talked about chronic dehydration- its nothing new even though its coming up again now, so plenty of people know about it and have acknowledged it - its not even a debate.
Also, when I say its permanent, trust me I dont want it to be and wouldnt ask all the questions I do if I didnt want an answer/solution.
You say its not permanent matter of factly, but at this stage Ive had it for 20 years this horrible dryness, what year are you suggesting that will change?
25 years, 30 years post tane??
Im as up and down with it all as anybody else and make no apologies about that.
Anyways, to be honest I could live with the dryness, its the combating of the depression and fatigue that interests me the most, youd have to think those areas are curable.
I doubt though a complete recovery from anyone, even taking the abortion drug, might fix a few things and thats great but has anyone gone back to having normal skin again, with nice natural oil, full thick hair again, all the eye floaters gone, no aches and pains, no mental issues etc etc??
Want a cure as much as anyone but just asking the hard questions?
Spent thousands on tests, its completely ignorant to suggest otherwise!!!
On 10/29/2017 at 5:00 PM, TrueJustice said:You say its not permanent matter of factly, but at this stage Ive had it for 20 years this horrible dryness, what year are you suggesting that will change?
25 years, 30 years post tane??
Soon as I first linked tane to my issues I came across a Yahoo thread and there was someone on there who took tane in the early 80's when it first came out, and he said things had never got any better 30 years later - still ED, no libido, brain fog. I'm over 7 years in this mess now.
If it was going to be an easy fix to get out of this then people would be getting things sorted, but clearly it's not - and I'm pretty convinced it's something to do with receptors being down-regulated/desensitised, so that even though you have the correct serum levels of hormones, you can't use them like a normal person,
It would be like speaking to a physicist about a physics problem. They would try and answer based on the laws of physics, but in our case it's like the laws of physics don't apply. It's not hard to see why doctors are left scratching their heads, and I don't think there is any easy way to measure receptor sensitivity/density, so you have you just go with theories and experiment.
IMO liver issues are probably the root cause as to why we were impacted and others who took the drug weren't - something along the lines of impaired sulphation pathway, and it does look like at least a couple of people have fixed their issues following things along these lines (Mario and the 8 tips on accutane video), but as with all the 'cures' many others have tried and not been able to replicate it.
The only convincing fixes seem to be things that play on the affected receptors, so you take whatever does it, then remove it and let things rebound and normalise. Everything down the line then slowly falls into place - libido comes back, dry skin goes away, depression lifts etc. Repeated long term water fasts would probably do it eventually as an alternative.
There is another 'cure' here using high dose zinc and saw palmetto, so in other words like herbal finasteride.
Quote-zinc reduces DHT and saw palmetto blocks the androgen receptors, thus theoretically if you use zinc then you will have less DHT competing to enter the androgen receptors, thus potentiating the androgen receptor blocking effect of saw palmetto.
-zinc also reduces levels of aromatase enzymes, thus keeping estrogen in check. For some reason saw palmetto increases estrogen levels, either through blocking the effect of DHT/lowering DHT or through some other unrelated mechanism (this is why many guys experience bad effects through the chronic usage of saw palmetto since it simultaneously raises their estrogen levels while also lowering their DHT levels). Thus if you use zinc and saw palmetto together, you maximize the DHT blocking effects of saw palmetto while also minimizing the raising of estrogen brought about by saw palmetto.
[Edited link out]
7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Plenty of people have talked about chronic dehydration- its nothing new even though its coming up again now, so plenty of people know about it and have acknowledged it - its not even a debate.Also, when I say its permanent, trust me I dont want it to be and wouldnt ask all the questions I do if I didnt want an answer/solution.
You say its not permanent matter of factly, but at this stage Ive had it for 20 years this horrible dryness, what year are you suggesting that will change?
25 years, 30 years post tane??Im as up and down with it all as anybody else and make no apologies about that.
Anyways, to be honest I could live with the dryness, its the combating of the depression and fatigue that interests me the most, youd have to think those areas are curable.
I doubt though a complete recovery from anyone, even taking the abortion drug, might fix a few things and thats great but has anyone gone back to having normal skin again, with nice natural oil, full thick hair again, all the eye floaters gone, no aches and pains, no mental issues etc etc??
Want a cure as much as anyone but just asking the hard questions?
Spent thousands on tests, its completely ignorant to suggest otherwise!!!
Well what do you think happens to girls when they go on birth control? Their skin and hair get dry and their skin clears..
I have woken up every morning feeling like I was hit by a monster truck. It has to be hormone related
2 hours ago, Colinboko said:Well what do you think happens to girls when they go on birth control? Their skin and hair get dry and their skin clears..I have woken up every morning feeling like I was hit by a monster truck. It has to be hormone related
I agree!!
So lets preempt the predictable responses here:
Had a full hormone panel tested by an endocrinologist twice
Had numerous thyroid tests done, all come back fine
Tried all the logical supplements that even the endo recommended- selenium and all its co-factors
So, in keeping with the fact that we run in circles on forum, the last post on previous page is pretty much bang on - its all about signalling, signalling, signalling!!!!
No one knows exactly how to fix it, to me its not thyroid, it must be either pituitary related or hypothalamus.
So before anyone suggests to go get a panel done and Im not suggesting thats a bad thing, thats only the start, the bigger question to be asking your specialist is - what have I got to do to get the signalling corrected?
41 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:I agree!!So lets preempt the predictable responses here:
Had a full hormone panel tested by an endocrinologist twice
Had numerous thyroid tests done, all come back fine
Tried all the logical supplements that even the endo recommended- selenium and all its co-factors
So, in keeping with the fact that we run in circles on forum, the last post on previous page is pretty much bang on - its all about signalling, signalling, signalling!!!!
No one knows exactly how to fix it, to me its not thyroid, it must be either pituitary related or hypothalamus.
So before anyone suggests to go get a panel done and Im not suggesting thats a bad thing, thats only the start, the bigger question to be asking your specialist is - what have I got to do to get the signalling corrected?
I also feel the longer on the drug the worse the "downregulation" because I still get acne! Maybe it's just clogged pores but.. idk. Have you had estrogen checked? I forget?
On 10/29/2017 at 6:46 PM, tanedout said:Soon as I first linked tane to my issues I came across a Yahoo thread and there was someone on there who took tane in the early 80's when it first came out, and he said things had never got any better 30 years later - still ED, no libido, brain fog. I'm over 7 years in this mess now.
If it was going to be an easy fix to get out of this then people would be getting things sorted, but clearly it's not - and I'm pretty convinced it's something to do with receptors being down-regulated/desensitised, so that even though you have the correct serum levels of hormones, you can't use them like a normal person,
It would be like speaking to a physicist about a physics problem. They would try and answer based on the laws of physics, but in our case it's like the laws of physics don't apply. It's not hard to see why doctors are left scratching their heads, and I don't think there is any easy way to measure receptor sensitivity/density, so you have you just go with theories and experiment.
IMO liver issues are probably the root cause as to why we were impacted and others who took the drug weren't - something along the lines of impaired sulphation pathway, and it does look like at least a couple of people have fixed their issues following things along these lines (Mario and the 8 tips on accutane video), but as with all the 'cures' many others have tried and not been able to replicate it.
The only convincing fixes seem to be things that play on the affected receptors, so you take whatever does it, then remove it and let things rebound and normalise. Everything down the line then slowly falls into place - libido comes back, dry skin goes away, depression lifts etc. Repeated long term water fasts would probably do it eventually as an alternative.
There is another 'cure' here using high dose zinc and saw palmetto, so in other words like herbal finasteride.
[Edited link out]
I would say saw palmetto is a hell of a lot safer vs propecia. High dose zinc combo . Anyone willing to try it. I did take it many years ago for a month or so might be worth a try . But never mixed with high dose zinc.
To succeed in recovery risks might have to be taken.
Indigo rush started this thread may 7 2011and we can thank him so 6 years later are we any smarter ?, many of us had no idea of the long term side effects until we came on here and found out that we all have similar symptoms, coincidence I think NOT.
On 10/29/2017 at 6:46 PM, tanedout said:There is another 'cure' here using high dose zinc and saw palmetto, so in other words like herbal finasteride.
You didnt finish the story and the most important takeaway.
[Edited link out]
This didnt work for him.
Now he's trying to combat a 5ar inhibitor effect with a 5ar promoter.
Or balance the two. If you go back and look he said inhibiting 5ar wasnt working long term
now since his last post, hes trying to balance the two and who knows where hes at. its only been a couple weeks.
He never followed up again.
I think your ultimately going to get yourself in more trouble with this.
Heres some test results from someone we all know on here. Hope he doesn't mind.
So, the best test results I've had in ten years and I am feeling worse than ever (particularly bad on the day the test was performed)
ACTH: 31 (7-50)pg/ml
Prolactin: 14.1 (2.8-29.9)ng/ml
LH: 2.8 (2.0-9.0)mIU/ml
FSH: 0.7 (0.9-15.0)mIU/mlL
Inhibin-A: 1 (<21)pg/ml
Cortisol: 20.4 (9-25)ug/dl
DHEAS: 523 (110-370)ug/dlH
17 OH-Progesterone: 90 (32-307)ng/dl
IGF-1: 207 (53-331)ng/ml Z-score = 0.7 (-2.0 to +2.0) (not sure what z-score is)
Total T: 729 (250-1100)ng/dl
Free T: 168.4 (35-155)pg/mlH
DHT: 63 (25-75)ng/dl
E2: 17 (6-54)pg/ml
11 hours ago, Colinboko said:Quick question....
There have been cases of low testosterone after accutane that were treated with TRT right?
um yes, me since summer.
-----------------------------in response to labs above, a few of my results
| Prolactin | : 10.1 ng/mL | (4.0 - 15.2 ng/mL) |
| Cortisol | : 18.8 ug/dL (6.2 - 19.4 ug/dl) A.M. | |
ACTH: 61.4 pg/mL (7.2 - 63.3 pg/mL)
LH: 3.7 mIU/mL (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH: 0.8 mIU/mL (1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL)
interesting our LH, FSH, and Cortisol are similar. although our Labs "ranges" differ.
my T was very low (189-220) at one point, different from the person above. With TRT it's around the high 300's currently.
I find it really interesting both of our FSH are identically treading water. I talked to my endo about it, apparently there is no clinical way of raising it.
And, just to add, my stance is something neuro/hormonal as the culprit.
Remember Hans Peterson? Yes, he was only on the drug for FOUR days. He immediately went impotent and gradually turned manic/depressed. Not nearly enough time to "damage the liver." Not enough time for "chronic cell dehydrogenase". Think about it.
That's an interesting point about getting those side effects after only 4 days. My worry is that the so called brain damage or hindrance is the reason behind hormonal imbalance- that so called damage has been demonstrated to be in frontal lobes, to my knowledge though the pituitary and hypothalamus don't reside in the effected area......a specialist would/should shed more light on this you'd have to think? Not so much an endocrinologist but more a neurologist.
The other area of the brain that might be effected is the pineal gland, one thing I do remember from my Yoga studies is that these areas of the brain can be restored through meditation practice - it's not the solution we're looking for here on forum but it is worth mentioning from a recovery point of view!
light sensitivity or "photosensitivity" I'm not one hundred percent certain what causes it, which gland? All I know is that I have it along with the head tension, eye floaters and extreme tiredness.
11 hours ago, Colinboko said:12 hours ago, TrueJustice said:I agree!!So lets preempt the predictable responses here:
Had a full hormone panel tested by an endocrinologist twice
Had numerous thyroid tests done, all come back fine
Tried all the logical supplements that even the endo recommended- selenium and all its co-factors
So, in keeping with the fact that we run in circles on forum, the last post on previous page is pretty much bang on - its all about signalling, signalling, signalling!!!!
No one knows exactly how to fix it, to me its not thyroid, it must be either pituitary related or hypothalamus.
So before anyone suggests to go get a panel done and Im not suggesting thats a bad thing, thats only the start, the bigger question to be asking your specialist is - what have I got to do to get the signalling corrected?
I also feel the longer on the drug the worse the "downregulation" because I still get acne! Maybe it's just clogged pores but.. idk. Have you had estrogen checked? I forget?
Estrogen- no not for awhile
I am due though to have it checked in an upcoming blood test, similar to testosterone though I expect it'll be in range but again as we're slowly learning - it's the signalling and the balance of the hormones that I'm wanting to learn about, I think this is the key over say loading up on one particular hormone, that's my view at the moment.