8 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

1. https://injury-law.freeadvice.com/injury-law/drug-toxic_chemicals/accutane-ibd-injury.htm

Interesting..it seems a lot of the law suits are related to bowel disease, and even then some don't win (like with James Marshall). I wonder if any non bowel cases have come to fruition.

4 hours ago, Colinboko said:

https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

literally all my symptoms are explained here......

hmmmm

The problem is we don't respond in the same way as a 'normal' person (i.e. with no tane sides) to hormonal things. If we did people would potentially have been getting cured 30 years ago, and this thread wouldn't exist.

You can go to your doctor, get bloods which show low-T and they'll end up putting you on TRT which will raise T, won't help your sides, yet you could end up having to stay on TRT for life as it can shut down your own T production. Or you can say you have symptoms of estrogen dominance, and end up on some aromatase inhibitor drug or something and just end up with severe anxiety, panic attacks etc.

As the usual approaches don't work, the conclusion from the Doctors is "it's all in your head" etc - like everyone ends up with getting, including myself! It's likely our bodies are not using hormones correctly or are insensitive to certain things, like DHT, as a result of up/down regulated receptors. You have to think outside the box with this one.

3 hours ago, tanedout said:

The problem is we don't respond in the same way as a 'normal' person (i.e. with no tane sides) to hormonal things. If we did people would potentially have been getting cured 30 years ago, and this thread wouldn't exist.

You can go to your doctor, get bloods which show low-T and they'll end up putting you on TRT which will raise T, won't help your sides, yet you could end up having to stay on TRT for life as it can shut down your own T production. Or you can say you have symptoms of estrogen dominance, and end up on some aromatase inhibitor drug or something and just end up with severe anxiety, panic attacks etc.

As the usual approaches don't work, the conclusion from the Doctors is "it's all in your head" etc - like everyone ends up with getting, including myself! It's likely our bodies are not using hormones correctly or are insensitive to certain things, like DHT, as a result of up/down regulated receptors. You have to think outside the box with this one.

The whole receptor thing confuses me.

Because like I said, if it was a receptor issue wouldn't I not be able to grow a beard and chest hair, which grow exactly the same as pre tane..?

I can still masturbate and ejaculate as well? (Not as often but I still can)

I'm just saying if it was a receptor thing wouldn't these all be shut down?

I think its more so a negative feedback loop that got set off. So our bodies are just pumping estrogen.. idk

8 hours ago, mikez said:

Interesting..it seems a lot of the law suits are related to bowel disease, and even then some don't win (like with James Marshall). I wonder if any non bowel cases have come to fruition.

James didnt win for one simple reason he took anti life biotic for years prior to tan and destroyed his gut / immune system with those horrible synthetic drugs.

Having said that isotretinoin is linked to ibs.

3 hours ago, Colinboko said:

I think its more so a negative feedback loop that got set off. So our bodies are just pumping estrogen.. idk

You could have really high serum estrogen (blood level), but if your receptors are screwed, like down-regulated/de-sensitised, then you can't use it.

Most people have blood tests which are totally normal (usually everything in range), but clearly these people have issues which would usually imply something wrong with these hormones. But if you can't use these correctly, then you can get the same symptoms as a 'normal' person would get with say, very low T or high E etc, despite having normal serum levels.

The theory that accutane is a 'progestin' makes a lot of sense, so it's screwed progesterone receptors leaving them up or down-regulated.

25 minutes ago, tanedout said:

You could have really high serum estrogen (blood level), but if your receptors are screwed, like down-regulated/de-sensitised, then you can't use it.

Most people have blood tests which are totally normal (usually everything in range), but clearly these people have issues which would usually imply something wrong with these hormones. But if you can't use these correctly, then you can get the same symptoms as a 'normal' person would get with say, very low T or high E etc, despite having normal serum levels.

The theory that accutane is a 'progestin' makes a lot of sense, so it's screwed progesterone receptors leaving them up or down-regulated.

Down or up regulated receptors is scary terminology though because it sounds permanent... please tell me I'm wrong! haha

So after about a year going from countless doctor to doctor, all the blood tests at least twice, MRIs, CT scans, lumbar puncture, I've been diagnosed with the following:

-Fibromyalgia
-Major Depressive Disorder
-Irritable Bowel Syndrome
-Sebhorric Dermatitis

Im currently taking Zoloft and Wellbutrin, both antidepressants, and Cyclobenzaprine (muscle relaxant).

As as far as self-care, I eat a relatively healthy diet, CBD/THC oil, CBD pain salve for my muscle pain and acupuncture occasionally.

So that's that, a year post- Accutane.

I somehow feel as if this was all part of Big Pharmas plan all along: make more people chronically illto become dependent on more medication. It's what they did with the opiod epidemic in the US. More than 50,000 people died from opioids last year, yet very little attention is beingbrought to it and pharma has too much money in congress for them to do anything about it. Just like the big oil companies convinced people that climate change is not real, pharmaceutical companies convinced doctors and the general public through malicious marketing tactics that their drugs are safe.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/the-opioid-epidemic-is-a-symptom-of-toxic-greed.html?mid=facebook_nymag&utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1

So we're all victims to this greed.

52 minutes ago, Jorcruz24 said:

So after about a year going from countless doctor to doctor, all the blood tests at least twice, MRIs, CT scans, lumbar puncture, I've been diagnosed with the following:

Are you still going to mayo clinic or have you been there already?

4 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

58 minutes ago, Jorcruz24 said:

So after about a year going from countless doctor to doctor, all the blood tests at least twice, MRIs, CT scans, lumbar puncture, I've been diagnosed with the following:

Are you still going to mayo clinic or have you been there already?

My appointment is actually tomorrow, but considering the cost and the fact that I was going to see a fybro/CFS specialist, it doesn't make sense since I've already been diagnosed that.

Plus, I was going to spend the weekend there and this weekend is my birthday so id rather spend it with friends than at a hospital.

3 hours ago, Jorcruz24 said:

My appointment is actually tomorrow, but considering the cost and the fact that I was going to see a fybro/CFS specialist, it doesn't make sense since I've already been diagnosed that.

Plus, I was going to spend the weekend there and this weekend is my birthday so id rather spend it with friends than at a hospital.

I get that. Mayo clinic in minnesota is also the top rated hospital in the country if not the world.
Alot of people get denied appointments. I did. So did someone else on here.
They might be more up on current research than anyone you would have a chance seeing. It might have been a good opportunity.
Especially if you went there prepared with some knowledge/studies /tests of some things to look into.
You have to be stern though.
The fact that they have a CFS specialist means they take this seriously and there might be some more current research on this, testing, or be able to make some possible associations with accutane and changes in biology to trigger some of these symptoms.

I also understand being tired of the whole process and not wanting to deal with all this again as well. Especially on your Bday weekend.
This appointment might just amount to more frustration.
Depending on your insurance or maximum out of pocket in network including staying over night, this could cost a boatload of money as well.

I think the science will catch up to all of this. If it has already, maybe its a matter of getting to the right place in front of the right person. At this point maybe its not going to be a doctor.
We've all heard the same thing. I heard it from my dermatologist too "it's not the accutane."

Can you quit that SSRI? That's been looking more and more similar as well when it comes to harmful effects.

The Mortality and Myocardial Effects of Antidepressants Are Moderated by Preexisting Cardiovascular Disease: A Meta-Analysis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28903117/
33% increased chance of death from any cause and a 14% chance of a cardiovascular event.

Does anyone know the normal levels of progesterone for a male?   

I've found results from previous tests :

These are from 2011-2013.     Most recent result was 1.0  

Also my DHEA has been at bottom of range for years. 

Supplementing DHEA didnt work for me years ago , despite boosting actual DHEA on testing. 

I'm weary of supplementing prog because of this article.   
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Progesterone_Dangers.aspx

Looking at this from a common sense perspective, theories aside,
Your in range every single time, do you really want to be much higher?
Its a female hormone, it can antagonise male hormones like testosterone and dht.
Its a 5ar inhibitor.

Progesterone-based hormone therapies can also be effective in treating hair loss.Progesteroneinhibits an enzyme, 5-alpha reductase.Progesteroneprevents the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone orDHTthat is a biologically active metabolite in the body.

15 minutes ago, mikez said:

Does anyone know the normal levels of progesterone for a male?

Can I ask, is taking Pregnenolone not beneficial for us with hormone issues??

A lot of us have high this, low that, mid-range this etc, why not try this product that apparently balances hormones?

If anyone has any experience with it, pls post.

On 10/26/2017 at 10:50 AM, TrueJustice said:

Can I ask, is taking Pregnenolone not beneficial for us with hormone issues??

A lot of us have high this, low that, mid-range this etc, why not try this product that apparently balances hormones?

If anyone has any experience with it, pls post.

Pregnenolone is one of the things required to produce progesterone in the body. I've supplemented it before in the past but noticed nothing. Some quotes below from someone over on the hackstatis forum;

Quote

This is what I have pieced together from gbolduev's thought on accutane;

Since accutane is the end product of the retinoic pathway, it depletes all the all the path co-factor requirements. Zn, Molybdenum, NAD, B6, etc... all get dumped. Retinoic acid is required along with cholesterol and thyroid(potassium) to getpregnenolone, then 3bHSD(zinc) makes progesterone. So accutane causes issues with progesterone sensitivity, most likely making potassium in cells sky high, body adjusts to this by increasing progesterone receptors. When you stop accutane, you do have zinc(but its bio-unavailable), progesterone is too sensitive and puts potassium sky high into the cell(hypothyroid). You also require cortisol, but cortisol is made from progesterone and your body cannot raise progesterone since cells are loaded with potassium. It like a catch-22.

Fin probably helps since it is a progestin and regulates potassium levels in the cell, but would provide a whole other set of problems, would not recommend. This is also why birth control(progestins) and Spironolactone are successful in treating acne in women, they both work on potassium.

Easiest fix seems to be water fast for days or weeks to dump potassium out of the cell, then take high dose Progesterone for 3-5 days during fast to reduce progesterone receptors. Then eating diet to retain Zn and co-factors, and probably somewhat low in Potassium for awhile.

Quote

Should have added since accutane is retinoic acid, it increases your progesterone levels greatly while taking it, so you get clear. But this increases the receptors, and causes the progesterone sensitivity issues post accutane, which locks potassium sky high in cells, then you have post accutane syndrome(issues with prog, cortisol, thyroid...).

My hair tests showed this, and got great results doing a short 3 day fast with high dose Prog in August. I am testing this theory again this week, with a proper longer water fast, and a bigger dose of Prog during. I don't think I applied it right in Aug, and didn't break that fast with proper nutrition.

[Edited link out]

Ok, how do most people take Progesterone?? I only see creams and the like when looking online!!

Pregnenolone - well thats a difference story, that you can easily get it would seem...

10 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Ok, how do most people take Progesterone?? I only see creams and the like when looking online!!

Pregnenolone - well thats a difference story, that you can easily get it would seem...

It's a cream, you can get it almost anywhere. I would ensure you get 'natural progesterone' (which is derived from soy and yarm), but it's bio identical.

I've been trying to get his tested for ages. I tend to feel quite calm using it though - the 'heartbeat in my head' that I've had since accutane and notice when lying on my pillow at night goes when using it.

Interesting when you look into high potassium- among 2 things that can cause it to be high are:

Dehydration
Chemotherapy drugs

Ring a bell anyone....

I wont even ask if anyones had their potassium checked - lets just assume its high and needs addressing!!

I dunno, if Accutane affected potassium levels why not treat that by itself rather than taking Progesterone??

Apparently there are potassium lowering supplements!

14 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Interesting when you look into high potassium- among 2 things that can cause it to be high are:

Dehydration
Chemotherapy drugs

Ring a bell anyone....

I wont even ask if anyones had their potassium checked - lets just assume its high and needs addressing!!

I dunno, if Accutane affected potassium levels why not treat that by itself rather than taking Progesterone??

Apparently there are potassium lowering supplements!

But it's potassium 'in the cell' that is high... it probably means serum potassium would be low (mine is low).

I'd be careful trying to lower potassium unless you know it's high as you could end up withhypokalaemia. I had symptoms of this earlier this year and I think it was from taking too much methyl B12.

Yes, Accutane is androgenic, and you can work on fixing those types of issues in that regard, however don't lose sight of it's immunoregulatory properties. This is what it was originally designed for (skin cancer). When you hear of people's acne flaring up after starting Accutane, and they are given things like cortisone, and antibiotics, this is the standard protocol for inflammatory immune system mitigation.

Just been perusing propecia forums and literally every guy on there seems to have been with just a huge initial crash and things were just shit from there on out.

Anyone else experience their first onset of symptoms while still on the drug? Cause I know for a fact I did and there wasn't like a huge CRASH like everyone talks about. I just started feeling crappy and then my symptoms kept getting gradually worse as time went on.

@IndigoRushReturns
While I might not agree with everything your saying, some I do, thanks for making the effort.
Stranger things was a pretty awesome show. I love how it was a throwback to the 80s. Im gonna have to get netflix again for season two.

Maybe I did see something in this video.
Hows your jaw strength? meaning jaw muscle, jaw bone.
Can you apply pretty forceful pressure shaving without it bothering you?
Thanks for the post.

15 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

@IndigoRushReturns
While I might not agree with everything your saying, some I do, thanks for making the effort.
Stranger things was a pretty awesome show. I love how it was a throwback to the 80s. Im gonna have to get netflix again for season two.

Maybe I did see something in this video.
Hows your jaw strength? meaning jaw muscle, jaw bone.
Can you apply pretty forceful pressure shaving without it bothering you?
Thanks for the post.

Hey bud,

I have no issues with my jaw.

11 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Just been perusing propecia forums and literally every guy on there seems to have been with just a huge initial crash and things were just shit from there on out.

Anyone else experience their first onset of symptoms while still on the drug? Cause I know for a fact I did and there wasn't like a huge CRASH like everyone talks about. I just started feeling crappy and then my symptoms kept getting gradually worse as time went on.

same for me. At one point I just felt less alive.

1 hour ago, draci said:

12 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Just been perusing propecia forums and literally every guy on there seems to have been with just a huge initial crash and things were just shit from there on out.

Anyone else experience their first onset of symptoms while still on the drug? Cause I know for a fact I did and there wasn't like a huge CRASH like everyone talks about. I just started feeling crappy and then my symptoms kept getting gradually worse as time went on.

same for me. At one point I just felt less alive.

really makes me think we're not suffering from the same thing as PFS...

Like I said, I've gotten gradually worse. Symptoms slowly keep creeping up. Which makes me think it's just my hormones lowering gradually or something

3 hours ago, IndigoRushReturns said:

Hey bud,

I have no issues with my jaw.

Thats good. I mention this because some have.
I took accutane maybe when I was around 15 myself.
Ive noticed in some of my photos over the years, it looks like my jaw could fill in more or widen. Like jawbone growth was incomplete.
I was at the dentist recently and he commented on how I had a weird jaw structure.
@mariovitaliwho had taken propecia quite a few years ago now and has similar sides mentioned this,
"the doctor who saw my jaw bone in a scan said that my jaw bone has bone loss of a person in his 70s."

I say these things because alot of people have mentioned how they have maintained a "young look" way past accutane.This might be due to bone growth or lack of.
When sticking to what we know accutane is capable of, we know it can have adverse effects on bone.
Not that this specifically applies to you.