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14 hours ago, IndigoRushReturns said:I know Accutane is not exactly the same as Vitamin A, but the toxic effects are basically the same.
I feel the long term effects stem largely from this.
Some interesting comments on this blog post: https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/
Im going to avoid Vitamin A as best I can, while taking Vitamin C, D, E, Zinc and Magnesium. On top of that, Im going to get to bed at 10pm, because our bodies and minds need the rest. Im not sure about you guys, but I sometimes feel alright for a few days or so. Then I crash. This happens over and over. Im having a shitter of a week.
The comments relating to Vit A toxicity suggest this is the liver releasing toxins when we crash.
Its not much the go on, but its all I have for now.
As people who have suffered greatly and know what its like to feel hopeless, I think we should all avoid paying for animal cruelty. It hasnt changed my health either way, but meat is not necessary for health and a lot points to it being harmful. Factory farms are Hell.
Sorry Indigo but avoiding it won't help -
I've avoided it for 6 of the 7 years since i took accutane. For the first year i didnt even know accutane had any connection to Vit A so i used to still take a multi vit. Back then my skin was far better than it is now...FAR better.
I'm starting to think that having avoided Vit A for 6 years that i'm actually deficient in it and that's whats caused my skin to become drier and drier as the years have rolled on.
This week i've added dairy back into my diet and have been eating a daily portion of spinach, broccoli, other dark veg. I'm done avoiding vitamin A, it hasn't gotten me anywhere and i think it may have something to do with the state of my skin now.
On 10/16/2017 at 8:11 AM, TrueJustice said:Many have talked up a meat free diet and some have posted that going vego hasn't done a thing to help tane issues, it could be that your problem isn't the meat, it's how much estrogen you are producing.
google foods that increase estrogen - there's a lot of things that I eat that I didn't know are increasing estrogen, if you're on the path to lowering it, you might need to reconsider exactly what you are eating!!
Simple stuff like nuts and soy productsthat I thought were doing me good, could be doing me no good at all......
You mentioned recently you were going to get progesterone tested- did you get this done? What result?
PFS guys seem to be getting some really good results based on the latest theory that finasteride, accutane etc act as progestin's. Multiple people now look to be recovering taking anti-progestin's like ella and ru486, but you need to work out how you've been affected first - some seem to have over sensitive receptors, some under.
ella sounds very promising indeed.
9 hours ago, tanedout said:You mentioned recently you were going to get progesterone tested- did you get this done? What result?PFS guys seem to be getting some really good results based on the latest theory that finasteride, accutane etc act as progestin's. Multiple people now look to be recovering taking anti-progestin's like ella and ru486, but you need to work out how you've been affected first - some seem to have over sensitive receptors, some under.
ella sounds very promising indeed.
Can you give some links?
9 hours ago, tanedout said:You mentioned recently you were going to get progesterone tested- did you get this done? What result?PFS guys seem to be getting some really good results based on the latest theory that finasteride, accutane etc act as progestin's. Multiple people now look to be recovering taking anti-progestin's like ella and ru486, but you need to work out how you've been affected first - some seem to have over sensitive receptors, some under.
ella sounds very promising indeed.
No not yet.
Can we be sure about this!!
you're saying anti-progesterone, I thought someone was saying they were rubbing progesterone cream on??
Which one is it?
[Edited link out]
On 10/19/2017 at 4:50 AM, Walden Rev said:Can you give some links?
Over on the hack stasis forum which has pretty much taken over from where the thread on RU486 on Ray Peat left off (that got deleted, as the forum owners probably weren't comfortable with people talking about taking abortion drugs etc). The theory is basically that accutane (and finasteride, SSRI's etc) are progestin's (essentially mimic progesterone in the body), and in some people treatment leaves progesterone receptors either upregulated or down regulated. All the other issues basically occur downstream from this.
Everyone has always assumed the issues with these drugs are down to them being DHT inhibitors, but based on this theory they don't inhibit DHT directly. It makes a lot of sense, and it's a whole new way of looking at getting out of this mess.
Ella, RU486 are abortion drugs which will block progesterone and people are using them to normalise receptors. Fasting normalises receptors to an extent, so it probably explains why people usually benefit from long water fasts.
There is never going to be a one-size-fits all for this condition though, people are all affected differently - with receptors up or down regulated. Some people are left with high cortisol, some low, some high DHT, some low etc. Trying to figure out your condition will be key to working out how to resolve it. This is why some things work for some people but not for others, such as RSO (Rick Simpson Oil). It worked for some people, but not others. Taking finasteride has worked for some, but might not work for others.
Just look at what progestin's are - it's not hard to see how accutane fits into this category;
QuoteProgestinsaresyntheticprogestogens,medicationsthat have effects similar to those ofprogesterone
QuoteProgestins are also used in judicialchemical castrationofsex offendersand in the treatment of individuals suffering from unwanted sexual urges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progestin
[Edited link out]
I think something else worth taking from this is that the CDNuts herb cycling method probably really does yield real benefits due to the cycling aspect. Some herbs will bind to certain receptors, then you stop taking them and you'll have a 'bounce back', and slowly over time things normalise.
So for anyone who is cautious and doesn't to take more drugs to try and fix then, then go with occasional water fasts, herbs cycling (like adaptogen herbs/CDnuts method), very clean/organic/paleodiet. Might take years to get real improvements, but it willimprove things.
http://www.medicinehunter.com/adaptogens
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com
On 10/19/2017 at 3:36 PM, tanedout said:Over on the hack stasis forum which has pretty much taken over from where the thread on RU486 on Ray Peat left off (that got deleted, as the forum owners probably weren't comfortable with people talking about taking abortion drugs etc). The theory is basically that accutane (and finasteride, SSRI's etc) are progestin's (essentially mimic progesterone in the body), and in some people treatment leaves progesterone receptors either upregulated or down regulated. All the other issues basically occur downstream from this.
Everyone has always assumed the issues with these drugs are down to them being DHT inhibitors, but based on this theory they don't inhibit DHT directly. It makes a lot of sense, and it's a whole new way of looking at getting out of this mess.
Ella, RU486 are abortion drugs which will block progesterone and people are using them to normalise receptors. Fasting normalises receptors to an extent, so it probably explains why people usually benefit from long water fasts.
There is never going to be a one-size-fits all for this condition though, people are all affected differently - with receptors up or down regulated. Some people are left with high cortisol, some low, some high DHT, some low etc. Trying to figure out your condition will be key to working out how to resolve it. This is why some things work for some people but not for others, such as RSO (Rick Simpson Oil). It worked for some people, but not others. Taking finasteride has worked for some, but might not work for others.
Just look at what progestin's are - it's not hard to see how accutane fits into this category;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progestin
[Edited link out]I think something else worth taking from this is that the CDNuts herb cycling method probably really does yield real benefits due to the cycling aspect. Some herbs will bind to certain receptors, then you stop taking them and you'll have a 'bounce back', and slowly over time things normalise.
So for anyone who is cautious and doesn't to take more drugs to try and fix then, then go with occasional water fasts, herbs cycling (like adaptogen herbs/CDnuts method), very clean/organic/paleodiet. Might take years to get real improvements, but it willimprove things.
http://www.medicinehunter.com/adaptogens
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com
Great post.
It's annoying that half these people popped accutane like it was nothing, but freak out about taking another drug to possibly help them get out of this mess.
I'm really in need of a full hormonal panel.
6 hours ago, Colinboko said:Great post.It's annoying that half these people popped accutane like it was nothing, but freak out about taking another drug to possibly help them get out of this mess.
I'm really in need of a full hormonal panel.
Yeah unfortunately I think it might take something like a cycle of finasteride or an abortion drug (i.e. an anti-progesterone) to like ella to normalise things, but definitely worth getting hormone panel including DHT, progesterone and estrogen and also getting potassium.
I think this really sums up the theory. So progesterone goes sky high when on accutane/finasteride etc and you are left with downregulated (insensitive) receptors;
QuoteIf you are progesterone insensitive , your body makes a lot of progesterone. This progesterone basically blocks your estrogen receptors and makes DHT insensitive. Your body is making a lot of it , since it is not working properly , since the number of the progesterone receptors is little. But this big amount of progesterone is able to bind to estrogen receptors. This stops DHT from working.
Result in theory is high DHT, high progesterone and high cortisol. I know I have high DHT and cortisol, and getting tests done for progesterone so will be interesting to see what that comes back with.
Also if you have downregualted progesterone receptors you should in theory feel a bit better taking more of it (which I do, hence banging on about it a while back), so again that would seem to give weight to this theory.
On 10/15/2017 at 7:52 AM, idontknow1993 said:When I started took the regular dose I started feeling just like when I was on accutane. I was very emotional like I heard a sad song on the radio and started crying and 10 minutes later feel very aggressive for no reason.
First part. This is your 5ar inhibitor effect, you feel soft, overly emotional. This is your estrogen, feminine side.
Second part. overly aggressive. along with probably an abnormal response to stress or increased. This is your androgenic side.
you went through a full range of hormones within a span of 10 minutes.
I dont need any hormone testing to know they are being affected and that they could change at any moment.
Trying to isolate a hormone and treat this by pumping more of a specific hormone doesnt make alot of sense to me.
Noones ever going to convince me to try propecia to combat a prescribed theory.
Thats all this is at this point when looking at reintroducing a 5ar inhibitor, What do you choose to believe in?
That other drug has been looked into for anti anxiety and depression. This could have a different mechanism as it looks like it can suppress some steroids like corticosteroid. So if you have a heightened response to stress maybe this suppresses that elevated corticosteroid level, or abnormal fight or flight response, Amongst maybe other antidepressive properties as well.
Me personally, im not pursuing the hormone angle atm. I more so believe this is something that will fall in line.
1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:First part. This is your 5ar inhibitor effect, you feel soft, overly emotional. This is your estrogen, feminine side.
Second part. overly aggressive. along with probably an abnormal response to stress or increased. This is your androgenic side.
you went through a full range of hormones within a span of 10 minutes.
I dont need any hormone testing to know they are being affected and that they could change at any moment.
Trying to isolate a hormone and treat this by pumping more of a specific hormone doesnt make alot of sense to me.Noones ever going to convince me to try propecia to combat a prescribed theory.
Thats all this is at this point when looking at reintroducing a 5ar inhibitor, What do you choose to believe in?That other drug has been looked into for anti anxiety and depression. This could have a different mechanism as it looks like it can suppress some steroids like corticosteroid. So if you have a heightened response to stress maybe this suppresses that elevated corticosteroid level, or abnormal fight or flight response, Amongst maybe other antidepressive properties as well.
Me personally, im not pursuing the hormone angle atm. I more so believe this is something that will fall in line.
Well idk about you but I've gained ridiculous amounts of weight (especially around my hips/midsection) and have early stages of man boobs...
And my voice has been affected like a woman going through pregnancy... shaky/cracking and to be honest... sounds like I have a higher timbre than pre tane.
10 hours ago, Colinboko said:Great post.It's annoying that half these people popped accutane like it was nothing, but freak out about taking another drug to possibly help them get out of this mess.
I'm really in need of a full hormonal panel.
It's annoying??
Who popped Accutane knowing all the consequences we now face? We were offered it by supposedly well educated dermatologists!
Like everyone else I'm open to looking at a drug that can get us out of this mess, but do you know if your Progesterone is now upregulated or down regulated after tane??
Which leads me to ask, if it's down regulated, you'd hardly want to take one of these abortion drugs surely?
Clearly we need to examine all sides and determine where our levels are at with Progesterone before we jump on the next big drug. It's no different to the trials we've done with Vit A......some say get on it while others say avoid like the plague....
Not willing to just experiment with an "abortion drug"......no fucking way to be brutally honest.
3 hours ago, TrueJustice said:It's annoying??Who popped Accutane knowing all the consequences we now face? We were offered it by supposedly well educated dermatologists!
Like everyone else I'm open to looking at a drug that can get us out of this mess, but do you know if your Progesterone is now upregulated or down regulated after tane??
Which leads me to ask, if it's down regulated, you'd hardly want to take one of these abortion drugs surely?
Clearly we need to examine all sides and determine where our levels are at with Progesterone before we jump on the next big drug. It's no different to the trials we've done with Vit A......some say get on it while others say avoid like the plague....
Not willing to just experiment with an "abortion drug"......no fucking way to be brutally honest.
Half of these sides are listed to be honest...
not that I'm fighting for Roche by any means. But I fully admit taking this drug was my fault. Not the doctors... I was an actor dying for clear skin. Soooo
7 hours ago, Colinboko said:Well idk about you but I've gained ridiculous amounts of weight (especially around my hips/midsection) and have early stages of man boobs...And my voice has been affected like a woman going through pregnancy... shaky/cracking and to be honest... sounds like I have a higher timbre than pre tane.
So you definitely have hormone imbalance, sounds like increased oestrogen.
Surely you have had this checked!
Your from the uk aren't you?
If I remember right you have no sexual sides and your libido is in tact - is this right?
3 hours ago, Colinboko said:Half of these sides are listed to be honest...not that I'm fighting for Roche by any means. But I fully admit taking this drug was my fault. Not the doctors... I was an actor dying for clear skin. Soooo
What - permanent side effects. Hair loss, permanently! Suicide - yes it is stated in the leaflet but none of the regulators or doctors believe it and they tell patients this - they actually promote this drug like it is a miracle, You can't deny this.
Sexual sides, not listed on the PIL - PERMANENT SEXUAL SIDES THAT WILL IMPACT YOUR WHOLE LIFE.
I didn't see it listed on the PIL that it takes away your personality nor that it feminises you and may even make you want to change your
gender!
You can blame yourself but don't say that it is not the doctors fault. They choose to downplay the side effects and feed this drug to kids.
Accutane is not safe for anyone and it should not be available at least not to anyone under the age of 21.
While accutane is promoted as safe by doctors, kids and young people will continue to take it.
There are other methods to getting rid of acne and if accutane was banned I guarantee you that the pharms would look for altenative
drugs for acne - hopefully safer ones. Of course we have all personally learnt our lesson (well not everyone), that there are no safe drugs.
Stay the hell away from finasteride and abortion drugs!
17 hours ago, Colinboko said:Great post.It's annoying that half these people popped accutane like it was nothing, but freak out about taking another drug to possibly help them get out of this mess.
I'm really in need of a full hormonal panel.
It's the fact that they TOOK accutane that it has RIGHTLY made them cautious about taking other drugs.
Even the FDA and MHRA will tell you that there are no safe drugs - there will always be side effects from every drug you take.
So stop making stupid comments!
Stop talking and go and get hormonal panel test done - you should have had this done ages ago.
7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:It's annoying??Who popped Accutane knowing all the consequences we now face? We were offered it by supposedly well educated dermatologists!
Like everyone else I'm open to looking at a drug that can get us out of this mess, but do you know if your Progesterone is now upregulated or down regulated after tane??
Which leads me to ask, if it's down regulated, you'd hardly want to take one of these abortion drugs surely?
Clearly we need to examine all sides and determine where our levels are at with Progesterone before we jump on the next big drug. It's no different to the trials we've done with Vit A......some say get on it while others say avoid like the plague....
Not willing to just experiment with an "abortion drug"......no fucking way to be brutally honest.
It's not just accutane though, there are loads of other drugs which seem to have similar mechanisms and results in people getting persistent sides from the same pool of possibilities - SSRI's, dusteride, propecia etc. The people suffering from accutane are probably the smallest group because it's likely the least commonly prescribed of all these drugs and often given to kids during puberty so many will grow up never knowing that this drug stopped them fully developing mentally and sexually - they will just think it's 'the norm' that they have 'very poor concentration' and the 'no interest in sex'. These are the hidden victims - the ones that will never know.
For the PFS guys, they're often guys in the peaks of their careers and with money behind them, so they're a much more organised group, they will know they've changed after the drug and it's not normal, they're well financed and there are a lot of them too. I guess with SSRI's people they're somewhere between the two groups.
Not sure I could bring myself to take another 'poison to counter-act this poison', but that's not really the point - anything where people are recovering is worth knowing about and trying to understand why it's helped. Just discounting things which could open up a whole new avenue of things to investigate and explore in more depth is pretty stupid IMO, especially with so few people having made a recovery.
Yeah that's right, I'm definitely open to hearing more about what these drugs could possibly do for us but no chance we should be just "experimenting" with them like they're just a vitamin......they are not and will always come with their own list of side effects, I think we all know that by now.
The estrogen dominance thing is definitely something to look into, you'd like to think one doesn't need to take an abortion drug necessarily to get on top of it though, there's got to be other ways of dealing with too much estrogen surely!!
41 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Yeah that's right, I'm definitely open to hearing more about what these drugs could possibly do for us but no chance we should be just "experimenting" with them like they're just a vitamin......they are not and will always come with their own list of side effects, I think we all know that by now.
The estrogen dominance thing is definitely something to look into, you'd like to think one doesn't need to take an abortion drug necessarily to get on top of it though, there's got to be other ways of dealing with too much estrogen surely!!
But the estrogen issue is kind of explained in that theory like I posted earlier.
1) you've taken accutane (acts as a 'progestin' - synthetic progesterone, so you effectively have really high progesterone when taking it
2) your body 'down regulates' the receptor sites because there is loads of progesterone
3) you come off the drug and suddenly there is not loads of progesterone, but the receptor sites remain down-regulated
4) your body produces extra progesterone because it's can't utilise it because the receptor sites have remained down regulated
5) The extra progesterone being produced is blocking estrogen receptors and making DHT insensitive
6) you in effect have a hormone imbalance
So these guys are going with the theory that you need to 'normalise/up-regulate' the progesterone receptor sites, so they're;
1) taking an anti-progesterone which reduces the amount of progesterone
2) receptors are forced to up regulate/increase because they're like "hey where's all the progesterone?"
3) you come off the anti-progesterone drug, and the receptors remain upregulated
4) balance of progesterone, estrogen, DHT is restored (or at the very least your body has a shot at restoring this balance at this point)
THere's more at play obviously, that's just a simplistic view and obviously it's just a theory. But I think it makes sense. I'm getting progesterone tested but it's not easy getting this tested as a guy, so I'm having to go via an online clinic and pretend to be a women.
I think the relationship between progesterone, estrogen and DHT/testosterone is worth exploring, on the basis that we have potentially taken a 'progestin' (accutane).
5 minutes ago, tanedout said:But the estrogen issue is kind of explained in that theory like I posted earlier.1) you've taken accutane (acts as a 'progestin' - synthetic progesterone, so you effectively have really high progesterone when taking it
2) your body 'down regulates' the receptor sites because there is loads of progesterone
3) you come off the drug and suddenly there is not loads of progesterone, but the receptor sites remain down-regulated
4) your body produces extra progesterone because it's can't utilise it because the receptor sites have remained down regulated
5) The extra progesterone being produced is blocking estrogen receptors and making DHT insensitive
6) you in effect have a hormone imbalanceSo these guys are going with the theory that you need to 'normalise/up-regulate' the progesterone receptor sites, so they're;
1) taking an anti-progesterone which reduces the amount of progesterone
2) receptors are forced to up regulate/increase because they're like "hey where's all the progesterone?"
3) you come off the anti-progesterone drug, and the receptors remain upregulated
4) balance of progesterone, estrogen, DHT is restoredTHere's more at play obviously, that's just a simplistic view and obviously it's just a theory. But I think it makes sense. I'm getting progesterone tested but it's not easy getting this tested as a guy, so I'm having to go via an online clinic and pretend to be a women.
I think the relationship between progesterone, estrogen and DHT/testosterone is worth exploring, on the basis that we have potentially taken a 'progestin' (accutane).
I like how you've explained it, I really do!!
Now that I've put to rest any thyroid issues I will get a progesterone test too.
When all's said & done though, are you willing to take an abortion drug??
I would need to hear from a doctor or chemist and prob more than just one that this is the best option, maybe I need to get over the fact that it's an abortion drug but it sounds insane in my mind right now.
And importantly how would you go with all this being female??....just saying, challenging to say the least, but it does have me intrigued....just need to eliminate the experimental side to it all if that's possible.
23 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:I like how you've explained it, I really do!!Now that I've put to rest any thyroid issues I will get a progesterone test too.
When all's said & done though, are you willing to take an abortion drug??
I would need to hear from a doctor or chemist and prob more than just one that this is the best option, maybe I need to get over the fact that it's an abortion drug but it sounds insane in my mind right now.
And importantly how would you go with all this being female??....just saying, challenging to say the least, but it does have me intrigued....just need to eliminate the experimental side to it all if that's possible.
Definitely get progesterone tested and let us know the outcome! I would also get cortisol, DHT and potassium done at the same time if you can.
I'm very averse to taking any drugs now, even aspirin or cough syrups I don't touch after this experience with accutane, but I would consider a herb anti-progesterone (already looked and there are a number of herbs such as fennel which block progesterone), and cycling this maybe. Will have to see, but want to try and understand the relationship between estrogen, progesterone and DHT better first.
6 hours ago, Colinboko said:Half of these sides are listed to be honest...not that I'm fighting for Roche by any means. But I fully admit taking this drug was my fault. Not the doctors... I was an actor dying for clear skin. Soooo
my dermatologist assured me that none of the side effects would be permanent. 16 years old I thought I could trust a doctor.
7 hours ago, hatetane said:What - permanent side effects. Hair loss, permanently! Suicide - yes it is stated in the leaflet but none of the regulators or doctors believe it and they tell patients this - they actually promote this drug like it is a miracle, You can't deny this.
Sexual sides, not listed on the PIL - PERMANENT SEXUAL SIDES THAT WILL IMPACT YOUR WHOLE LIFE.
I didn't see it listed on the PIL that it takes away your personality nor that it feminises you and may even make you want to change your
gender!You can blame yourself but don't say that it is not the doctors fault. They choose to downplay the side effects and feed this drug to kids.
Accutane is not safe for anyone and it should not be available at least not to anyone under the age of 21.While accutane is promoted as safe by doctors, kids and young people will continue to take it.
There are other methods to getting rid of acne and if accutane was banned I guarantee you that the pharms would look for altenative
drugs for acne - hopefully safer ones. Of course we have all personally learnt our lesson (well not everyone), that there are no safe drugs.
Stay the hell away from finasteride and abortion drugs! It's the fact that they TOOK accutane that it has RIGHTLY made them cautious about taking other drugs.
Even the FDA and MHRA will tell you that there are no safe drugs - there will always be side effects from every drug you take.
So stop making stupid comments!Stop talking and go and get hormonal panel test done - you should have had this done ages ago.
I'm not even going to waste my breath responding to your posts. Accepting that I took those pills has been one of the best things I could have done, instead of wallowing in absolute regret on top of all these sides. Regardless of what ISN'T listed, it's what IS listed that should have kept us away from it in the first place. But we wanted clear skin. SO. WE. TOOK. IT.
Don't tell me what to get tested when all you have brought to this forum is links to prove that Roche is "killing us all" and that signing an email is the most important step we can take right now. Pretty positive it's your son who is affected and not you. So take a seat because you're not experiencing any of this first hand.
I'm also not from the U.K. and I haven't had a full hormone panel because some people on this forum think it's right to tell people we're all affected by the same thing and to not waste your money on certain tests. So I set hormones aside after my very non-extensive thyroid test with practically no hormones on it whatsoever.
And I have E.D. problems... I can still ejaculate (the consistency is disgustingly thick) but the hardness is terrible. My crippling depression and anhedonia don't help with the whole libido thing because I don't really "feel" happy about anything. But yes I'm still attracted to people.
1 hour ago, Colinboko said:Regardless of what ISN'T listed, it's what IS listed that should have kept us away from it in the first place. But we wanted clear skin. SO. WE. TOOK. IT.
My derm didn't only assure me that the sides wont be long term. She explained to me that all drugs have these kind of sides listed because everything that happens during a study needs to be put in the PIL, even if it is unrelated. Taking the drug was not my fault. I was a kid.
3 minutes ago, Colinboko said:OMG I'm not saying it's anyone else's fault. I'm saying it has helped me by just accepting that I was so willing to take it. I wanted clear skin.
Your very ignorant. I accept you are in a bad way but you are slating people for not wanting to take any more pharmaceuticals..
I suspect your not a teenager - most are when they get given accutane.
You are entitled to go to a doctor and be safe - that has not been the case for most people on this forum.
Yes, I do believe that someone should be held accountable for destroying young peoples lives but more than anything I want young people protected in the future.
Signing emails! Thanks to everyone who took the time to email PRAC - the PIL is getting up-dated to include erectile dysfunction and diminished
libido. You obviously don't care about future victims and I am not for one minute suggesting it is enough but it is a start and hopefully it will at least get young people to directly look this side effect up,
Sound to me like you want everyone else to take risks by taking dangerous drugs to pave a safe way forward for yourself.
Don't use others on this forum to do your dirty work for you.
If you have gynecomastia you need your hormones tested - namely estrogen. It's totally irreverent what other peoples test result are.
And don't you dare tell me to take a seat you moron - you haven't got the slightest idea about my situation so don't make judgements on it.