3 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Before I start funding anything, I want a few more people to possibly trial this and see if it's TRULY our problem.

If more people start feeling better then by all means. I'm done waiting...

How old is this thread?
How many recoveries?
No known definite protocols.
Shall we try and get researchers involved???

Start donating!

20 minutes ago, hatetane said:

How old is this thread?
How many recoveries?
No known definite protocols.
Shall we try and get researchers involved???

Start donating!

No I'm saying I don't want to fund it until we have a few more people feeling slightly better through this mechanism of action

20 minutes ago, hatetane said:

How old is this thread?
How many recoveries?
No known definite protocols.
Shall we try and get researchers involved???

Start donating!

No I'm saying I don't want to fund it until we have a few more people feeling slightly better through this mechanism of action

3 hours ago, Colinboko said:

3 hours ago, Gladiatoro said:

I tell you I dont regret anything I did in my life except taking isotretinoin , trust me that says a lot.

How about you just delete your account cause you haven't furthered any type of research on this thread WHATSOEVER.

Check his birthday and also realize he's 20+ years out from accutane. Its good to keep this in perspective. Yes some of the posts are a little much, but you see how this might be affecting people as they get older. he's pissed like we're all pissed. The more time that passes the more you realize how much BS this all really is and you cant go back.

7 hours ago, Colinboko said:

Basically we need to all suck it up... and try propecia and see if it helps us? If enough people did it and were thrown out of this mess, I would honestly consider it.

This could be dangerous thinking, people have killed themselves over these drugs.
If you feel like you got nothing to lose... but even then though be smart.
I wouldn't recommend this to a group of people without extensive knowledge of how it affects me personally first.

Did we miss the previous post on how the guy went back on propecia and it ended up making him worse?
Or possible increased cardiovascular risk from some 5ar inhibitors?

@mariovitali
What do you think about taking propecia again to treat your propecia induced sides?
Im serious though, and have you looked into this?

Some of us have already looked into this, whether we realized it or not, and i'll get back to that.
If there is a hierarchy here, Im not so sure hormones rest at the top of it.

http://www.whale.to/drugs/roche_u.html

Guys I'm just being honest I do regret taking isotretinoin because it has caused me much personal hardship , BUT taking this chemotherapy agent made me decide to research other topics and I'm glad I did , my knowledge in general in the last 10 years or so has gone up 10 fold so out of something bad comes something good .

Like my allopathic doctor said and I quote " It's not that bad , you have to take better care of yourself and watch your diet ". By that I think he meant drink less beer , I do like beer I must admit as did most of my ancestors .

Let me tell you a little story my dad made it to 88 with a full head of hair and drank beer pretty much until he passed on , so I'm doing the same thing as him minus the hair and some gene expression changes lol.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20224692

I'm glad indigo rush posted again , we are literally all in the same boat , I still say we should start an international club for isotretinoin victims , some people have lost years of their lives trying to figure this stuff out it's insane , I call it cruel and unusual punishment for no GOD damn reason .

1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:

Check his birthday and also realize he's 20+ years out from accutane. Its good to keep this in perspective. Yes some of the posts are a little much, but you see how this might be affecting people as they get older. he's pissed like we're all pissed. The more time that passes the more you realize how much BS this all really is and you cant go back. This could be dangerous thinking, people have killed themselves over these drugs.
If you feel like you got nothing to lose... but even then though be smart.
I wouldn't recommend this to a group of people without extensive knowledge of how it affects me personally first.

Did we miss the previous post on how the guy went back on propecia and it ended up making him worse?
Or possible increased cardiovascular risk from some 5ar inhibitors?

@mariovitali
What do you think about taking propecia again to treat your propecia induced sides?
Im serious though, and have you looked into this?

Some of us have already looked into this, whether we realized it or not, and i'll get back to that.
If there is a hierarchy here, Im not so sure hormones rest at the top of it.

Then what ARE you sure of? You've been a member for how long?

Like I said before, it's rather annoying that the veterans on here haven't even found anything for any of us to try...

I'm taking a break from this thread. At this rate it does nothing but hurt my eyes

23 hours ago, Togg said:

This is the best piece of literature I have ever found on this topic. It is a paper done by "mew" and "awor" of propeciahelp.com. Whoever just posted it thank god, I can find it nowhere in my bookmarks. It goes into much more detail than I ever could and sites hundreds of other studies.

Here they write: The sources are at the bottom of the paper.

You are right in assuming that these 5ar inhibitors effect different tissues. There are three types of 5ar isoforms. To my understanding, Accutane is mostly a type 1 that effects skin and liver mostly. I think anyway. Fin is a type 2 that effects hair and... Penile tissue I think. The paper goes into better detail of this if you are interested.
Dr. Pezzi also claims to have recovered from fin accutane related sexual sides by going on finasteride.

This was the post I think I read when I was considering going on finasteride. I am no longer considering it and do not recommend it.

I am still advocating avocados as a natural 5ar inhibitor, as somehow going back on 5ar inhibitors has helped people.

Thiat is a 'paper' written by a random online user.

Accutane reduces DHT - in the SKIN.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7714084

But I'm not even sure where you got the idea that Accutane's only known mechanism is through DHT inhibition?There is no actual known mechanism of action.

As stated, Accutane affects a multitude of pituitary hormones, so why pinpoint DHT as the culprit , when it isn't even shown to lower circulatory levels?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25721216
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21103844

On 13/10/2017 at 5:41 AM, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

Yikes, your naturopath was oversimplifying things greatly. . .
The devil is in the details, not whether a substance can be broadly categorized as an herb or drug. Just like man-made drugs, herbs have a therapeutic dose, a toxic dose, and an LD50. Many herbs have similar mechanisms of action as man-made drugs: They can be SSRIs, 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, NDMA antagonists, dopamine reuptake inhibitors, opioid agonists, etc. They can also be toxic to various organs depending on the dose or genetic susceptibilities.

People have crashed from saw palmetto (sp?). People have had severe hyperthyroid adverse reactions to an herb I find beneficial: Ashwagandha. Unfortunately, the body does not always simply wash out herbs it doesn't need. People like to romanticize substances that come from nature. But a drug is a drug. Severe reactions can happen from herbs because your body doesn't care where a substance comes from; it cares about what receptors it binds to and how it is metabolized.

Caffeine is intended as a pesticide by the plant that produces it. Sounds like the last thing you would want to ingest, but research shows immense health benefits from moderate amounts. On the other hand we have Accutane, a substance naturally occurring in the body. Who would have thought ingesting that could bring such harm?

My point is that it's important people understand the risks, the science, and proper dose of whatever they take. This is equally important for herbs as it is man-made drugs. And yeah, there are many man-made drugs I wouldn't take at any dose for $1 million, but there are also some herbs I am weary of as well!

Well it wouldn't surprise me if you know more than she does, I appreciate the insight.

Personally I dont have anything to lose, after 20 years I cant get any lower, I don't think anyway.
Am I willing to experiment with herbs to get some relief? yes, am I willing to take an abortion drug or propecia to get out of this shit - No, not unless I heard back from specialists or something saying that it's the best thing to do and really safe!!

I dont know what the fuck those drugs can do to you and I'm not experimenting to find out either - no thank you.

Until that day comes, I'm just going to have to ride it out, somehow just lose the rage that sits inside me and hope for the best, try and get 5-10% relief via supplements/diet/herbs if I can.

2 hours ago, mikez said:

Thiat is a 'paper' written by a random online user.

Accutane reduces DHT - in the SKIN.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7714084

But I'm not even sure where you got the idea that Accutane's only known mechanism is through DHT inhibition?There is no actual known mechanism of action.

As stated, Accutane affects a multitude of pituitary hormones, so why pinpoint DHT as the culprit , when it isn't even shown to lower circulatory levels?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25721216
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21103844

Sorry I did not mean that accutanes only method of action was through 5ar enzyme inhibition, bad wording on my part. I meant that the only known method of action in common between all of those drugs I mentioned, drugs with nearly identical side effect profiles, is 5ar inhibition. I guess it is possible that it is some other mechanism of action that all these drugs have in common that is messing people up. I myself think thats unlikely. Although, I also get that accutane may be slightly unique compared to the other drugs and cause problems in other ways as well.

3 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

Basically we need to all suck it up... and try propecia and see if it helps us? If enough people did it and were thrown out of this mess, I would honestly consider it.

I also do not think it is wise to go on propecia. I know I am the one who has recently started this all going back on a 5ar inhibitor, but only by eating a diet high in beta-sitosterol. Propecia can cause a nearly identical syndrome to users. It is very questionable if it is safe. Go eat some avocados, 2 a day, this I believe would be an effective 5ar inhibitor. And hopefully much more benign. If it wasn't, then I feel more people would know bout the dangers of eating too many avocados or other greens. I have been eating 2 a day for a little over a month now, and I have had some serious recovery. Enough that right now I am ruling out coincidence.

18 hours ago, Colinboko said:

I mean is this really what we think it is? Our receptors are just desensitized and need to be resensitized if that's even possible ?

Wasnt that discussed on like page one of this thread? Lol

It has been discussed many many times throughout this thread. I hope for a reason

If anyone is hesitant in trialing Clomid or Mifepristone, any of the drugs in the womens fertility realm, just thought it would be interesting to point out that male athletes, especially in the UFC, get popped by USADA for doping with those types of drugs, as it is considered a PED. So, if you think a negative feedback loop is to blame for your hormone issues, try it and let us know.

Just a couple weeks ago Jesse Taylor was busted for Clomid and he is jacked for his age, it was so obvious.

2 hours ago, Togg said:

Go eat some avocados, 2 a day, this I believe would be an effective 5ar inhibitor.

I appreciate new thoughts, new ideas. Not that this is new, but just looking into things in general. thanks for posting. Eating avocados does not prove this theory. The fact that you mentioned greens though sparked me looking into this very quickly with your claimed success or betterment, whatever you want to call it.
This is something I still have alot of interest in. Vitamin K. More specifically k2 long chain menaquinones. quinones.
Im not trying to be someone to force things , but I checked this really quick,

Warfarin (Coumadin) Interactions with Food IHTC

We'd have a hard time though getting our hands on Clomid - given our testosterone is within range, which doctor would ever prescribe it?

Theres only one male I know of on this forum who's had a kid post tane, apparently without any problem....who would know if any of us males are infertile?? Anyone trying for kids right now?

Anyone still think the liver is the main culprit in all this?
The last few pages on 5 ar inhibitors have been interesting- sure enough we have a signalling issue at play here, my question - is it because of the liver or is it the Pituitary that's damaged!?

The way my head feels I'm going to say Pituitary- if it's damaged though no one knows how to fix it anyway so if the machines broken for want of a better analogy who's to say Clomid or Propecia or any of these things would work in the way we want.

Can't fix a computer virus if the hardrive is fucked yeah....

@Togg , I love avocados, the last time I ate them in increased amount I think it did some good to me. I'm not convinced though their good effect is due to beta-sisterol and inhibiting 5-ar. May be it is something else, like copper ? Someone posted here links to TeslaFan's progestin theory, it is very interesting, but not easy to understand well in details.

Hey guys, time for an update.
I'm still feeling very good and healthy. I can't say if the effect is permanent but I know at this moment right now that for me all my symptoms are gone. I don't have depression,pain in my stomach or at my back and sex feels great. I think its even more intensive than ever before. So as side effect from propecia I know got acne at my back and I hope it stays forever haha;). Seriosly, its 100% clear for me that all my sides were related to hormonal dysbalance. I was in the gym yesterday for the first time in 2 years and after it I felt like my workout wasn't hard enough. Can't believe it

3 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

We'd have a hard time though getting our hands on Clomid - given our testosterone is within range, which doctor would ever prescribe it?

Theres only one male I know of on this forum who's had a kid post tane, apparently without any problem....who would know if any of us males are infertile?? Anyone trying for kids right now?

Anyone still think the liver is the main culprit in all this?
The last few pages on 5 ar inhibitors have been interesting- sure enough we have a signalling issue at play here, my question - is it because of the liver or is it the Pituitary that's damaged!?

The way my head feels I'm going to say Pituitary- if it's damaged though no one knows how to fix it anyway so if the machines broken for want of a better analogy who's to say Clomid or Propecia or any of these things would work in the way we want.

Can't fix a computer virus if the hardrive is fucked yeah....

We got pregnant first try too so it didn't affect fertility even a little.

Well I'm going to continue to eat a diet high in phytosterols and report back to you guys. Mostly by avocados, but I am also considering purchasing some hemps seed oil. It is cheap and full of the stuff.
I still have a lot of trouble with sleep and fatigue.
@guitarman01
[Edited ilnk out[

[Edited link out]
I found these. Big read. Is it what your referring to?
Oh nvm, you've posted alot about K2.
God dam I need to sleep

On 10/14/2017 at 3:20 PM, idontknow1993 said:

Hey guys, time for an update.
I'm still feeling very good and healthy. I can't say if the effect is permanent but I know at this moment right now that for me all my symptoms are gone. I don't have depression,pain in my stomach or at my back and sex feels great. I think its even more intensive than ever before. So as side effect from propecia I know got acne at my back and I hope it stays forever haha;). Seriosly, its 100% clear for me that all my sides were related to hormonal dysbalance. I was in the gym yesterday for the first time in 2 years and after it I felt like my workout wasn't hard enough. Can't believe it

Great to hear! All this just from one cycle of finasteride, how much per day for how long? There are a few other recoveries following the same Dr Pezzi method earlier on this thread when the focus was on DHT inhibitors (this thread just goes in circles)

I was reading about another PFS guy who was doing well after taking licorice root extract for a while (also a DHT inhibitor), and there is the guy who was cycling this too and improved his libido.

In the past I've tried drinking 6-8 cups of green tea per day, and this definitely helped things a bit, but it's never stuck, but maybe the answer is to keep cycling to increase baseline.

The CDNuts method actually includes some herbs which are DHT inhibitors such as He Shou Wu etc, so the benefits may come actually cycling these without realising it.

Some guy on here last year was cycling Saw Palmetto, not sure if he got any lasting benefits.

Other recoveries following the Dr Pezzi method;

Quote

hello guys,

 

i would like to share my success story with you.I was suffering from chronic low libido which i am sure was caused by accutane.I experienced complete absence of sexual sensation on my genitals and as a result erectile dysfunction and difficulty having an orgasm.After i stopped taking accutane my symptoms strangely got worse as the time passed instead of improving.I tried various things to reverse my libido loss such as healthy diet,some drugs that were supposed to help improve libido, but nothing worked.I then found a report in the internet about dr. Pezzi who has written the book ''the science of sex'' and claimed that he reversed his libido loss caused by accutane by taking the drug finasteride.I was determined to find a solution to my problem so i decided to try it.I began taking 1mg/day and then slowly increased to 5mg/day.I took it for a total of 5 months.During that time i started experiencing a return of my acne which was accompanied by a small increase in libido and a slight return of sexual sensation.I continued taking it as long as i noticed some positive effects.The big surprise happened when i decided to stop taking the drug.I experienced a huge increase in libido,sexual sensation and acne.My spontaneous and morning erections which were gone since i had taken accutane came back and i no longer had problems reaching an orgasm.I don't know what exactly this drug did to my system but it worked.6 months have passed since i stopped taking finasteride and i still experience all the positive effects,so i believe the effects are permanent.I now feel like a normal man of my age(i am 28 years old).The only side effect i had was the return of acne but i believe that has to do with the return of my libido but i prefer having acne and a healthy libido than having no acne and no libido.

[Edited link out]

Quote

on Aug 20,2010Goldenwwrote:
This guy might be on to something. i dident post here for a loong time ...
my problem was that i had ed problem caused by roacutane( age 16), and a hairloss problem that started in my early 20. knowing i am in a place with ariguably two of the worst problems a man could have, and no answer to niehter, i decided to give propecia a chance about 5 months ago - which is the main reason i dident post here , feeling bad i am taking this horrible drug but i had to give it a shot on my hair problem, knowing again that i have no sex life at all pretty much.after 3 months with it , i decided i cant give propecia a chance to clear my slight chance of ever recovering from my ed problem i stoped.. i have to say, 4 days after i stoped, i started having my spontanous erections back, morning ererctions also came back to me, wanting sex like every 24 year old should have came back also. i almost feel as normal .. thinking it just might be temporary i dident do much . but hey.. i think i am almost back as any normal guy (allthough i cant really recall how that is after 7 years feelin g nothing and having no idea i have a problem untilll runing in into this forum )
well , right now i figured ill check on into stuff aroun,, and came across this thread.. i thought of posting my last experiince though it might help others, i hope i am good as normal, not sure! if my experince could help cure you guyss, we might be on to something here.. hope again that all of you will cure from your problems.

[Edited link out]

Propecia - well I guess that counts me out from trying it, I forgot that you guys experimenting do so with repairing sexual issues, I'm not in that situation though.

Im not hearing of anyone taking it to restore energy, to lose Chronic fatigue or to just reboot brain, it's always to do with sexual issues.....That's fine, I sincerely wish everyone the best with it.

The rest of us without sexual issues will have to look at something else I gather?

Or just get on the avocados

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

Propecia - well I guess that counts me out from trying it, I forgot that you guys experimenting do so with repairing sexual issues, I'm not in that situation though.

Im not hearing of anyone taking it to restore energy, to lose Chronic fatigue or to just reboot brain, it's always to do with sexual issues.....That's fine, I sincerely wish everyone the best with it.

The rest of us without sexual issues will have to look at something else I gather?

Or just get on the avocados

But look at the testimonials, they are fixing all their issues, not just sexual sides. It's like you fix the root cause  (which is likely re-sensitising/normalising receptors which have been left out of whack) and the body then is able to restore to it's normal homeostasis, and all 'side effects' go away. 

1 hour ago, tanedout said:

But look at the testimonials, they are fixing all their issues, not just sexual sides. It's like you fix the root cause (which is likely re-sensitising/normalising receptors which have been left out of whack) and the body then is able to restore to it's normal homeostasis, and all 'side effects' go away.

Yes, some claim they have fixed all their issues, others say finasteride cured them temporarily and then they got even worse. It is very risky.

14 minutes ago, draci said:

1 hour ago, tanedout said:

But look at the testimonials, they are fixing all their issues, not just sexual sides. It's like you fix the root cause (which is likely re-sensitising/normalising receptors which have been left out of whack) and the body then is able to restore to it's normal homeostasis, and all 'side effects' go away.

Yes, some claim they have fixed all their issues, others say finasteride cured them temporarily and then they got even worse. It is very risky.

Yep totally agree!

plus I want to know why you might go with propecia over say clomid?

I need all the info to make the right choices here.

14 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yep totally agree!

plus I want to know why you might go with propecia over say clomid?

I need all the info to make the right choices here.

if you google "clomid finasteride" you will see that the post-finasteride sufferers are experimenting with it

7 minutes ago, draci said:

22 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yep totally agree!

plus I want to know why you might go with propecia over say clomid?

I need all the info to make the right choices here.

if you google "clomid finasteride" you will see that the post-finasteride sufferers are experimenting with it

Yep but that doesn't answer my question, both Clomid & Propecia have been brought up in this forum over the last year or so.

I'd like to hear opinions on choosing one over the other from those who delve into all the science and know a thing or two.

To be fair - ive been taking starflower oil for the past few weeks, which contains GLA, which i just found out is a 5ar inhibitor. Ive been applying it topically to my face too and it is helping with the skin side of things but its still far from normal. Still bone dry and red raw.