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28 minutes ago, Colinboko said:3 hours ago, alanman said:Accutane SUCKS! I am left a SICK person after it despite all of the farm food I've turned too, I still feel very damaged from 80mg of accutane @ 6 months... curse the summer june 2009. thank god for cannibis guns and god. anybody that comes to my farm gets to deal with the crazy guy who took acutane who will question the hell out of any law enforcement. this is prision planet if you dont believe it go take accutane (dont).... god bless you.
by the way i have seen more decline in my general health sicne i stopped taking it. can only imagine in another 10 years how bad my back will hurt after a simple 10 minute sit at the computer its shot. so many side effects so much lost time.. so much LOST LIFE. might as well have shot myself before i ever took it. FUCK ACCUTANE fuck the gmos
PS: dont eat any processed foods (fake foods) or any processed foods at all for that matter. eat garlic to ward off candita or parasites ... 0 processed sugar... unlimited veggies and plenty of potatos to keep you happy... again ....... 0 processed sugar will help with day to day fatigue.
Are you alanc from the all things male forums?
I'm not him. I have posted on here before but still struggling indefinately like stephan himself. buch of bull and we all know it. im out... good luck everyone.
14 hours ago, Togg said:So, let me expand some on my thinking.I am not worried so much about DHT.
I am worried about 5ar inhibitors.
Saw Palmetto, Finasteride, Dutasteride, and Accutane are all 5ar inhibitors.
Most people do not experience any or little side effects from these 5ar inhibitors. They go through there course of accutane (having slight hormonal changes while on the course because of the 5ar's), and upon discontinuation return to normal.
However, some unlucky few (us), experience extreme side effects while on these inhibitors that can worsen upon discontinuation.
Each of these drugs are unique and may cause other side effects through other mechanisms, but it is no coincidence that users of these drugs have side effect profiles nearly exactly the same.
The one mechanism known of each of these drugs is 5ar enzyme inhibition. Again, this is no coincidence, this is strong evidence 5ar enzyme inhibitors are to blame for a lot of what has happened to us.
Hmm.. Are there sources (studies) for these claims, especially the latter? With the former, with respect to which tissues.
7 hours ago, Justdry said:On 11/10/2017 at 11:27 AM, TrueJustice said:Yeah I worry about what I may pass on as a result of tane.Plus there's no way I'm bringing people into the world who might have to go through this bullshit- it's unacceptable.
The amount of corruption and bullshit must end, I mean these people who make isotretinoin need to fuck right off, they're not my people, it's not how I act or treat people so why should any of us have to be forced upon these pricks?
Thats almost a question for God - send forth better humans so others don't end up caught up in such bullshit - that's how strong I feel about it, this extends way beyond any monetary compensation or lawyers etc etc....like I say the people who work for Roche arent my people - they need to be dealt with!!!
I'm happy to be corrected here but go and poison people then hide behind the fucken walls - where's the responsibility??
You can kind of gather I might be over the corruption:)
Just saying it how I feel about it all!!!
Don't be daft - you haven't got HIV - I've had a kid and he's the healthiest baby you could ask for.
No prob, but how do you go with picking him up with a bad back?
How do go with having having to spend more money on yourself with medicine/supplements than on him?
How do you go with the chronic fatigue, needing more naps than he does?
I'm just curious with these sort of things, glad you didn't pass anything on....that's refreshing to hear.
Guys can we get back to the less "bitchy and whiny" thread that was actually informative?
We can't stay on a topic and experiment amongst ALL of us for more than 30 minutes. Jeez
25 minutes ago, Colinboko said:Guys can we get back to the less "bitchy and whiny" thread that was actually informative?
We can't stay on a topic and experiment amongst ALL of us for more than 30 minutes. Jeez
Sorry but with all due respect i'd like to get some answers on the parenthood front, I'm not coming from a place of bitchiness or anything, I'm bloody curious how you do it post tane.
At the age of 42 having dealt with all suffering, questions about offspring and how you raise kids with an accutained body is quite an important subject id of thought...,esp considering there's more males on this forum than females
I do apologise if I derailed something though, I don't mean to and hate when that happens, it is frustrating when we're on to something important.
11 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Sorry but with all due respect i'd like to get some answers on the parenthood front, I'm not coming from a place of bitchiness or anything, I'm bloody curious how you do it post tane.At the age of 42 having dealt with all suffering, questions about offspring and how you raise kids with an accutained body is quite an important subject id of thought...,esp considering there's more makes on this forum than females
I do apologise if I derailed something though, I don't mean to and hate when that happens, it is frustrating when we're on to something important.
Didn't derail anything! And not calling you out by any means.
This thread should just be loaded with our test results in my opinion. And less of a "diary". We're not going to get anywhere by sitting around and venting about our shitty side effects (I've seen several threads just die because of that). Let's do something about it guys! Like seriously. Stop worrying about getting this drug off the market or getting back at Roche and start worrying about your own lives! It's okay to be selfish in this matter. It's your health.
I know it's tough because some people don't have the money to get as many tests done as others, but the only way we'll get some ground covered is if more than 2 or 3 people get a test done. I just feel like I'm constantly exchanging test results between @guitarman01and no one else..
Found this paper about the 5ARI withdrawal syndrome
http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb
23 minutes ago, draci said:Found this paper about the 5ARI withdrawal syndrome
http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb
Sounds about right the three evils isotretinoin , finasteride , and perhaps saw palmetto when I took saw palmetto for a month or so I did notice more hunger and actual hair growth but I said fuck it after reading about its dangers on acne.org so I have mixed feelings about it.
The other two well we all know they are very dangerous.
1 hour ago, Colinboko said:Didn't derail anything! And not calling you out by any means.This thread should just be loaded with our test results in my opinion. And less of a "diary". We're not going to get anywhere by sitting around and venting about our shitty side effects (I've seen several threads just die because of that). Let's do something about it guys! Like seriously. Stop worrying about getting this drug off the market or getting back at Roche and start worrying about your own lives! It's okay to be selfish in this matter. It's your health.
I know it's tough because some people don't have the money to get as many tests done as others, but the only way we'll get some ground covered is if more than 2 or 3 people get a test done. I just feel like I'm constantly exchanging test results between @guitarman01and no one else..
No worries,
I don't know man, my thoughts are there's some nuggets of gold popping up on forum lately!!
I mean for people who aren't specialists or scientists we do pretty fucking good delving into neuroscience and liver and all sorts of stuff
Sure I'd like to pinpoint where we should be looking but wouldn't we all!!
I guess I'm guilty of venting at Roche a bit too often but fuck you know 20 years......it's pretty devastating blow you'd have to agree?
This guy initially felt better going on finasteride but then got even worse:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10476
Just throwing my 2 cents in here..
I was "cured" for a few months by going back on Propecia, all sides disappeared. More people had this experience, but in the end it gets worse.. After a while (8 months back on it),I ended up with more sides than before..
Now to be clear, when I decided to take Propecia again, I did knot know my problems came from Propecia.. I had severe brain fog, joint pain, muscle twitches, bad sleep, and above all: severe digestive issues; runny and yellow stool. My dick was still OK though. Because of the digestive issues, a specialist diagnosed me with IBS. It happens to be that all the sides I had at the time could be explained by the IBS diagnosis.
So I decided to get back n propecia, because that wasn't the cause, after all, I had stopped for a month or 2 and the problem still persisted.. So I got back on propecia, and after about 2-3 months, things got better and better. I thought it was my new IBS diet healing me. All the sides disappeared and for another 4 months everything was back like before. I could even tolerate alcohol no problem, I remember thinking how overall terrific I felt.
However slowly things got worse.. the brain fog came back, the joint pains, the yellow runny stool, even had slurred speech now and my libido and dick got limp. So its worse than before.
I only realised propecia was the problem when I took the 5mg version of finasteride ( ment for people with prostate cancer ) one day, and all sides came back 10 fold. Went online and learned all about PFS.
Now off it for 2 years.. I would say 30% improvement overall. Never had TRT
3 hours ago, mikez said:Hmm.. Are there sources (studies) for these claims, especially the latter? With the former, with respect to which tissues.
This is the best piece of literature I have ever found on this topic. It is a paper done by "mew" and "awor" of propeciahelp.com. Whoever just posted it thank god, I can find it nowhere in my bookmarks. It goes into much more detail than I ever could and sites hundreds of other studies.
Here they write:
QuoteFrom a pharmacological point of view, the common denominator between the involved 5ARI substances is the reduction of DHT at the cellular and circulating levelthrough 5AR inhibition. Indeed, finasteride(27), dutasteride(27)(28)(29), isotretinoin(30)(31)(32)(33)(34)and saw palmetto extract(35)(36)(37)(38)(39)(40)exert their effect on BPH, hair loss and acne through the potent inhibition of 5-alpha reductase.
The sources are at the bottom of the paper.
You are right in assuming that these 5ar inhibitors effect different tissues. There are three types of 5ar isoforms. To my understanding, Accutane is mostly a type 1 that effects skin and liver mostly. I think anyway. Fin is a type 2 that effects hair and... Penile tissue I think. The paper goes into better detail of this if you are interested.
26 minutes ago, draci said:This guy initially felt better going on finasteride but then got even worse:
Dr. Pezzi also claims to have recovered from fin accutane related sexual sides by going on finasteride.
This was the post I think I read when I was considering going on finasteride. I am no longer considering it and do not recommend it.
I am still advocating avocados as a natural 5ar inhibitor, as somehow going back on 5ar inhibitors has helped people.
21 minutes ago, draci said:This guy initially felt better going on finasteride but then got even worse:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10476
Just throwing my 2 cents in here..
I was "cured" for a few months by going back on Propecia, all sides disappeared. More people had this experience, but in the end it gets worse.. After a while (8 months back on it),I ended up with more sides than before..
Now to be clear, when I decided to take Propecia again, I did knot know my problems came from Propecia.. I had severe brain fog, joint pain, muscle twitches, bad sleep, and above all: severe digestive issues; runny and yellow stool. My dick was still OK though. Because of the digestive issues, a specialist diagnosed me with IBS. It happens to be that all the sides I had at the time could be explained by the IBS diagnosis.
So I decided to get back n propecia, because that wasn't the cause, after all, I had stopped for a month or 2 and the problem still persisted.. So I got back on propecia, and after about 2-3 months, things got better and better. I thought it was my new IBS diet healing me. All the sides disappeared and for another 4 months everything was back like before. I could even tolerate alcohol no problem, I remember thinking how overall terrific I felt.
However slowly things got worse.. the brain fog came back, the joint pains, the yellow runny stool, even had slurred speech now and my libido and dick got limp. So its worse than before.
I only realised propecia was the problem when I took the 5mg version of finasteride ( ment for people with prostate cancer ) one day, and all sides came back 10 fold. Went online and learned all about PFS.
Now off it for 2 years.. I would say 30% improvement overall. Never had TRT
You have to be insane to take propecia just my 2 c input.
. Unfortunately its always easier to break stuff than to fix it. Scientific research would need to find a way to normalize the 5ARI receptors.
10 hours ago, TrueJustice said:No prob, but how do you go with picking him up with a bad back?How do go with having having to spend more money on yourself with medicine/supplements than on him?
How do you go with the chronic fatigue, needing more naps than he does?
I'm just curious with these sort of things, glad you didn't pass anything on....that's refreshing to hear.
My backs no worse than anyone else's my age - I know people my age who never touched accutane who are in much worse shape with their backs. Mine is just sore through hyperextending it a lot (plus deadlifts/squats). You're 42, your back may have been in the shape it's in with or without accutane.
I've stop spending lots on supplements since they don't make any difference. I'm only taking starflower oil and fish oil now.
I don't have chronic fatigue - sleep 7 hours a night and don't nap.
My issues are just skin related (complete dryness of the face, red damaged facial skin due to the dryness and can no longer sweat from my face).
My point was that you don't have some disease like HIV or Hepatitis that you can infect your child with. You've taken a drug that's altered systems in YOUR body and that defect will remain in YOUR body.
5 hours ago, Colinboko said:I mean is this really what we think it is? Our receptors are just desensitized and need to be resensitized if that's even possible ?
Wasnt that discussed on like page one of this thread? Lol
Its the only theory which is being somewhat studied and for which a few academic papers exist. If you go to scholar.google.com and search for 5ARIwithdrawal you will find dozens of articles about sexual side effects about men who have been treated with 5ARI inhibitors for prostate issues and developed problems after the treatment.
read what this guy says about 5AR. and reducing jointpain and for increasing testosterone. we used a 5AR1 inhibitor for so long, then went cold turkey.
1. could we be experiencing a sensitized 5AR enzyme now?
2. is that why some people experience relief fromstarting 5AR inhibitors again?
3. too much 5AR = low testosterone and other hormones?
[Edited link out]
The Power of 5AR
Alpha 5 Reductase is an enzyme that you don't have much of in your teens and early 20's but by the time you get to your late 30's, early 40's you are making a disproportionate amount of it. This is the hormone that is responsible for clearing out your testosterone and splitting it into dihydrotestosterone creating DHT. This may be all clear and fine when you don't have much of this hormone in your early 20's but when you move foward 15 years there is actual damage that occurs in your body from having too much dihydrotestosterone (DHT) circulating in your body:
1.It clears too much testosterone out of your systemand basically starts turning you into a balless wonder. Without testostoerone at the levels you had in your youth, you start gaining wieght. Your muscle mass starts to shrink. You aren't as confident and bold as you used to be, not such a go getter anymore. You have less energy, and are more tired. Sex becomes a chore. With low testosterone, you start developing stiffness and pains and arthritis.You are less of a man. Basically a whole bowl of wimpy middle aged flabby man suck. This is one of the reasons that a man's free testosterone in his system starts to drop off and medical issues start to arise like prostate cancer and heart attacks. With low test, you are going to need a damn good reason to get up out of your chair to walk into the kitchen to help someone calling you. With proper levels of testosterone, you will feel jacked enough to run through a wall.
2.5AR causes a swollen prostate and prostate cancer. This is a big problem. Excessive DHT will cause your prostate gland to begin swelling up causing urineary and medical issues including the big C: Prostate Cancer. My father had this problem. In his 50s he had to start using the bathroom all the time and then in his 60's he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He researched several options and one new treatment was radioactive seeds. He had radioactive seeds placed in his prostate in order to keep the cancer at bay. So far so good, god willing, hes still with me. But with radioactive material in his body. Frank Zappa the musician got prostate cancer and it killed him. I believe thats the same thing that also killed George Harrison. Its a serious issue that affects most men starting in their 40's. If you start having flow issues or have to go frequently overnight, this is probably whats starting to happen. See your doctor. Frank Zappa caught it too late.
3.5AR casues DHT which directly causes hair loss.And the ever increasing levels that are climbing in your bloodstream aren't doing you any favors as you get older. If you have androgen receptors (if your grandfather was bald on your mom's side) they are going to get filled up by these DHT molecules destroying your hairline. Please review the above Phase I section for the specifics on this. Without 5AR, your testosterone levels won't be a problem as it won't be creating any DHT. But as you reach your mid 30's you will begin to be swamped by larger amounts of the 5AR causing this problem.
mario....
your latest post on fm03. have you seen this? the gene upregulated the most in the skin from topical RA is FM02. OVER 50X!
WHY?
Upon analysing the gene array manually for genes affected more than 10-fold by RA without RA was found to upregulate 8 genes more than 10-fold. One of these was FMO, which was upregulated 50.17-fold after 24-h stimulation with RA. FMO has been found to be present in human skin [59]. It is known to metabolize xenobiotics, but to our knowledge, not known to metabolize retinoids.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ics.12121/full
On 10/13/2017 at 9:15 PM, tryingtohelp2014 said:read what this guy says about 5AR. and reducing jointpain and for increasing testosterone. we used a 5AR1 inhibitor for so long, then went cold turkey.
1. could we be experiencing a sensitized 5AR enzyme now?
2. is that why some people experience relief fromstarting 5AR inhibitors again?
3. too much 5AR = low testosterone and other hormones?[Edited link out]
The Power of 5AR
Alpha 5 Reductase is an enzyme that you don't have much of in your teens and early 20's but by the time you get to your late 30's, early 40's you are making a disproportionate amount of it. This is the hormone that is responsible for clearing out your testosterone and splitting it into dihydrotestosterone creating DHT. This may be all clear and fine when you don't have much of this hormone in your early 20's but when you move foward 15 years there is actual damage that occurs in your body from having too much dihydrotestosterone (DHT) circulating in your body:
1.It clears too much testosterone out of your systemand basically starts turning you into a balless wonder. Without testostoerone at the levels you had in your youth, you start gaining wieght. Your muscle mass starts to shrink. You aren't as confident and bold as you used to be, not such a go getter anymore. You have less energy, and are more tired. Sex becomes a chore. With low testosterone, you start developing stiffness and pains and arthritis.You are less of a man. Basically a whole bowl of wimpy middle aged flabby man suck. This is one of the reasons that a man's free testosterone in his system starts to drop off and medical issues start to arise like prostate cancer and heart attacks. With low test, you are going to need a damn good reason to get up out of your chair to walk into the kitchen to help someone calling you. With proper levels of testosterone, you will feel jacked enough to run through a wall.
2.5AR causes a swollen prostate and prostate cancer. This is a big problem. Excessive DHT will cause your prostate gland to begin swelling up causing urineary and medical issues including the big C: Prostate Cancer. My father had this problem. In his 50s he had to start using the bathroom all the time and then in his 60's he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He researched several options and one new treatment was radioactive seeds. He had radioactive seeds placed in his prostate in order to keep the cancer at bay. So far so good, god willing, hes still with me. But with radioactive material in his body. Frank Zappa the musician got prostate cancer and it killed him. I believe thats the same thing that also killed George Harrison. Its a serious issue that affects most men starting in their 40's. If you start having flow issues or have to go frequently overnight, this is probably whats starting to happen. See your doctor. Frank Zappa caught it too late.
3.5AR casues DHT which directly causes hair loss.And the ever increasing levels that are climbing in your bloodstream aren't doing you any favors as you get older. If you have androgen receptors (if your grandfather was bald on your mom's side) they are going to get filled up by these DHT molecules destroying your hairline. Please review the above Phase I section for the specifics on this. Without 5AR, your testosterone levels won't be a problem as it won't be creating any DHT. But as you reach your mid 30's you will begin to be swamped by larger amounts of the 5AR causing this problem.
To be honest, this post does make loads of sense. I'm just confused as to why after all these years, we're just shining light on it now.
Basically we need to all suck it up... and try propecia and see if it helps us? If enough people did it and were thrown out of this mess, I would honestly consider it.
I would prefer a coordinated effort of post accutane and post finasteride/dutasteride sufferers to raise money and fund research to understand this 5ARI issue better and hopefully find a way to reverse it.
They are raising a 100k USD prize for someone who finds a a cure to post SSRI, Finasteride and Accutane syndrome. Its a great start. https://rxisk.org/launching-the-rxisk-prize/?utm_source=September+2017+News&utm_campaign=September+News&utm_medium=email
Serious research will need several millions though. Im sure that if this gets more attention we could raise millions. Im am absolutely sure that there are many wealthy post finasteride and post accutane sufferers. Think teenage models and actresses/actors who were forced to take accutane to be able to continue their career.
We can do this! We just need some more public attention on talk shows etc.
we can start by making a Post-Accutane-Syndrome Foundation
18 minutes ago, draci said:I would prefer a coordinated effort of post accutane and post finasteride/dutasteride sufferers to raise money and fund research to understand this 5ARI issue better and hopefully find a way to reverse it.
They are raising a 100k USD prize for someone who finds a a cure to post SSRI, Finasteride and Accutane syndrome. Its a great start. https://rxisk.org/launching-the-rxisk-prize/?utm_source=September+2017+News&utm_campaign=September+News&utm_medium=email
Serious research will need several millions though. Im sure that if this gets more attention we could raise millions. Im am absolutely sure that there are many wealthy post finasteride and post accutane sufferers. Think teenage models and actresses/actors who were forced to take accutane to be able to continue their career.
We can do this! We just need some more public attention on talk shows etc.
we can start by making a Post-Accutane-Syndrome Foundation
Before I start funding anything, I want a few more people to possibly trial this and see if it's TRULY our problem.
If more people start feeling better then by all means. I'm done waiting...
2 hours ago, Colinboko said:To be honest, this post does make loads of sense. I'm just confused as to why after all these years, we're just shining light on it now.Basically we need to all suck it up... and try propecia and see if it helps us? If enough people did it and were thrown out of this mess, I would honestly consider it.
You first then report back to us.