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Yes if you do have visual symptoms post tane they are related to optic neuritis, another -itis to add to the countless lists of itis'. From what I've read is that there is no real cures at the moment for inflammatory issues (take arthritis for example), it's the bodies natural response, you could turn it off with newer drugs, but that doesn't usually end well, and i don't think they have anything for long term or without side effects.
I found something that really helps with joint pain.
Riboflavin 5 phosphate.
which promotes FMO. cannot be regular riboflavin...must be the active form.
i take 10mg a day..on day 3, and that constant joint pain is dulled 75%
its tied into everything... from histamines (DAO MAO) to retinoid metabolism. ithelps the body turn b6 into active b6 which is needed for taurine. it transports copper into the cell. its also mentioned in this paper... it discusses another retinoid being metabolized by CYP2C8 and FMOs tazarotenic acid... it also shows that accutane is a substrate for this as well. it also shows when CYP2C8 is inhibited (as in the case of accutane).... FMO takes over.
I think a lot of our sides are histamine related. from stomach/candida/SIBO .. all the way to joint pain. DAO and MAO enzymes being the one that are not firing.
DAO cofactors = copper , b6 , C
MAO cofactors = B2
FMO = flavin-containing monooxygenase
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/31/4/476
Inhibition experiments using paclitaxel, 9-cis-retinoic acid, 13-cis-retinoic acid and quercetin as inhibitors of CYP2C8, were conducted in a similar manner. CYP2C8 is believed to mediate the metabolism of paclitaxel (Taxol), 9-cis-retinoic acid (Panretin), and 13-cis-retinoic acid (Accutane) (Parkinson, 1996;Mugford and Kedderis, 1998;Marill et al., 2002). Quercetin is a specific inhibitor of CYP2C8 (Parkinson, 1996)
Effect of Chemical Inhibition on CYP2C8-mediated Metabolism of Tazarotenic Acid.
Involvement of CYP2C8 in tazarotenic acid metabolism was further confirmed by inhibition of the formation of the sulfoxide metabolite by paclitaxel, 9-cis-retinoic acid, 13-cis-retinoic acid, and quercetin. Paclitaxel, a potential CYP2C8 substrate (Parkinson, 1996) inhibited the formation of the sulfoxide metabolite from tazarotenic acid in a concentration dependent manner with an IC50of 14.9 6.2 M (Fig.6) and aKiof 30.0 7.0 M. 9-cis-retinoic acid and 13-cis-retinoic acid, both potential CYP2C8 substrates (Mugford and Kedderis, 1998;Marill et al., 2002) inhibited the formation of the sulfoxide metabolite from tazarotenic acid in a concentration-dependent manner.
Theivalue for the potential 13-cis-retinoic acid (Accutane)-tazarotenic acid interaction is between 0.0178 and 0.0474. The potential fractional inhibition on tazarotenic acid metabolism by the dietary flavonoid, quercetin is between 0.00108 and 0.0207. However, the present study demonstrates that the metabolism of tazarotenic acid to the sulfoxide metabolite is mediated by two different enzymes, namely, CYP2C8 and FMO. Potentially, if one metabolic pathway is inhibited the alternative pathway can mediate the metabolism of tazarotenic acid.
The results of this study demonstrate that both CYP2C8 and FMO enzymes are responsible for the metabolism of tazarotenic acid in humans.
19 hours ago, macleod said:Yes if you do have visual symptoms post tane they are related to optic neuritis, another -itis to add to the countless lists of itis'. From what I've read is that there is no real cures at the moment for inflammatory issues (take arthritis for example), it's the bodies natural response, you could turn it off with newer drugs, but that doesn't usually end well, and i don't think they have anything for long term or without side effects.
also interesting....
The nutrient helps convert carbohydrate into energy, which is required by all human body processes. The nutrient has an auxiliary role in the conversion or secretion of other vitamins. For instance Vitamin A is not changed into retinoic acid if certain derivatives of riboflavin are not present. Retinoic Acid is the form of Vitamin A with the most benefits. Riboflavin also helps in the absorption ofIron, and other B vitamins including folic acid and vitamins B1, B3, and B6.
Flavins' role in the retina is emphasized by their high concentration (48 1.7 pmol/mg1), which is 20-fold higher than in the blood (2.57 0.31 pmol/mg1) (11). Saidet al.(41) showed that cultured human RPE cells (ARPE-19) uptake riboflavin via a Ca2+-calmodulin-regulated process. It is not known how the retina in general and specifically the photoreceptor cells acquire flavins. Flavins are key cofactors involved in fatty acid oxidation and citric acid cycle (42). However, these processes alone may not account for the high levels of flavins found in the retina. Despite their high levels in the retina, their concentration must be tightly regulated because riboflavin deficiency (ariboflavinosis) results in photosensitivity and poor dim light vision (43,44), although excess dietary riboflavin causes photoreceptor cell death via OS lipid peroxidation (45).
Besides their role in energy metabolism, flavins likely play other yet uncharacterized roles in retinal function and/or homeostasis. It is known that flavins are cofactors in many isomerization reactions (42). For instance, FAD is the cofactor used by xanthine oxidase in the conversion of retinol to retinoic acid (4648). Interestingly, this flavoprotein is localized to cone OSs in the human photoreceptor layer (49). FAD is also present in the blue light cryptochromes, which help mediate circadian rhythm in the inner neural retina (5052). Despite the absence of Retb from cones, the diversity of these two processes is a good example of how widely flavoproteins are used in the retina.
riboflavin in intracellular oxidation. Riboflavin deficiency is characterized by photophobia and dimness of vision at a distance and in dim light; cheilosis,
Doesnt what's written above about riboflavin tie in to the whole methylation process??
I asked a page or so ago about it and I know some people have said matter of factly - to fix tane problems you have to work on methylation process!!?
Can anyone comment good or bad on Methylfolate supplementing pls??
I don't really want to take just yet even though I have it in my supplement cupboard until I know more about the possible negative side effects.
Any info would be much appreciated.
53 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Doesnt what's written above about riboflavin tie in to the whole methylation process??I asked a page or so ago about it and I know some people have said matter of factly - to fix tane problems you have to work on methylation process!!?
Can anyone comment good or bad on Methylfolate supplementing pls??
I don't really want to take just yet even though I have it in my supplement cupboard until I know more about the possible negative side effects.
Any info would be much appreciated.
yes ... riboflavin is tied to folate metabolism and MTHFR. google that and youll come up with everything.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6145/
The flavoenzyme methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) catalyzes the conversion of 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate to 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, which serves as a methyl group donor in the conversion of homocysteine to methionine. In rats, experimental riboflavin deficiency is associated with low MTHFR activity and reduced levels of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. In humans, reduced enzyme activity caused by the commonly occurring 677C†’T substitution of the MTHFR gene is associated with elevated plasma homocysteine. The mutant enzyme has lower affinity for its flavin cofactor than the wild-type enzyme, and recent studies show that plasma homocysteine is inversely related to riboflavin in subjects with the T-allele. This indicates that the metabolic effect of the 677C†’T polymorphism is related to riboflavin status, which may have implications for future studies on the relationship between this polymorphism and various clinical and biochemical endpoints.
....
holy shit look at this table. look what gets upregulated the most when topical retinoic acid is applied to the skin.... FMO! way more than CYP26 or NGAL.
here they say that FMO isnt known to metabolize retinoids... but from my previous post... we know they do.
10 hours ago, Walden Rev said:Hey guys, got an reply back from the doctor:
I've been swamped at work but I will save your message and respond to the group as soon as I can. Bottom line: there is hope.
Kevin
This is great to hear, and really good that he's willing to offer up some advice, so I'll be really interested to see what he says! IMO the micro-dose finasteride route to re-sensitise receptors looks increasingly like the only way to really get out of this mess, but obviously if there are any alternatives that might have the same effect but are safer then these are going to be preferable of course.
Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
13 minutes ago, mikez said:Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
I've always been one to burn and tane didn't change that. I just finished a round of 10mg melanotan 2 and went tanning 4 times with pretty great results if you want a tan that badly.
Pale skin can be a sign of chronic gastritis or inflammation of the lining of the stomach. This can be chronic and go undetected for years with no symptoms. There is a possibility there could have been a mucosal change in the lining of the stomach or thinning due to accutane. There could be other reasons as well. Like lack of good blood flow for various reasons. I too have noticed unusual pale skin from Time to time
56 minutes ago, mikez said:Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
1 hour ago, ehohel said:1 hour ago, mikez said:Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
I've always been one to burn and tane didn't change that. I just finished a round of 10mg melanotan 2 and went tanning 4 times with pretty great results if you want a tan that badly.
That's interesting to know... I'm not desperate for a tan. It would be nice, but have too many other issues to focus on now. I'm a bit way of trying unapproved drugs though, in terms of long term sides. I know it will give me a tan.
My serum D is always low normal. My bowels dont react well to too much supp D tough 
13 hours ago, tanedout said:This is great to hear, and really good that he's willing to offer up some advice, so I'll be really interested to see what he says! IMO the micro-dose finasteride route to re-sensitise receptors looks increasingly like the only way to really get out of this mess, but obviously if there are any alternatives that might have the same effect but are safer then these are going to be preferable of course.
Honestly, I'd be careful going that route. Studies done on PFS individuals found that they have upregulated androgen receptors, yet they also have every symptom of low testosterone (despite these upregulated receptors). So regular-dose Propecia seems to already do what we would expect microdosing to do, yet the outcome is extremely unfavorable. But perhaps Accutane does the opposite of what Propecia does and upregulation would help us. Your perspective on whether or not microdosing Propecia would help depends on what theory you subscribe to.
That being said, I see people on PropeciaHelp who were dosing less than a mg per day. . . Just be careful, man. My position on the microdosing thing is more fragile than it once was.
Accutane's Dangerous Side Effects
Accutane is a source of relief for many acne sufferers. However, despite this acne breakthrough, Accutane carries with it numerous side effects, including:
- Hearing and vision damage
- Liver and kidney damage
- Pancreatitis
- Cardiovascular injuries
- Severe birth defects
- Early closure of growth plates
- Lupus
- Suicidal thoughts and behavior
How is lupus diagnosed?
In lupus, something goes wrong with your immune system, the part of the body that fights off viruses, bacteria, and germs (foreign invaders like the flu). Normally, our immune system produces proteins called antibodies that protect the body from foreign invaders. When you have lupus, your immune system cannot tell the difference between these foreign invaders and your bodys healthy tissues, so autoantibodies (automeans self andantimeans against:against self) are made that damage and destroy healthy tissue. These autoantibodies cause inflammation, pain, and damage in various parts of the body.
A doctor who is considering the possibility of lupus will look for signs of inflammation which include, pain, heat, redness, swelling, and loss of function at a particular place in the body. Inflammation can occur on the inside of your body (your kidneys or heart, for example), on the outside (your skin), or both.
There are many challenges to reaching a lupus diagnosis. Lupus is known as "the great imitator" because its symptoms mimic many other illnesses. Lupus symptoms can also be unclear, can come and go, and can change.
A physician will carefully review the following while evaluating a lupus diagnosis:
- your current symptoms
- your laboratory test results
- your medical history
- the medical history of your close family members (grandparents, parents, brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins)
All of this information may be necessary for a doctor to make a diagnosis of lupus.
A variety of laboratory tests are used to detect physical changes or conditions in your body that can occur with lupus. Each test result adds more information to the picture your doctor is forming of your illness. However, for a number of reasons listed below, laboratory tests alone cannot give a definite yes or no answer:
- No single laboratory test can determine whether a person has lupus.
- Test results that suggest lupus can be due to other illnesses or can even be seen in healthy people.
- A test result may be positive one time and negative another time.
- Different laboratories may produce different test results.
If multiple criteria are present simultaneously, a physiciana family practitioner, internist or pediatricianmay reach a lupus diagnosis. If, however, as is often the case, symptoms develop gradually over time, the diagnosis may not be as obvious, and consultation with a rheumatologist may be needed.
1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:Accutane's Dangerous Side Effects
Accutane is a source of relief for many acne sufferers. However, despite this acne breakthrough, Accutane carries with it numerous side effects, including:
- Hearing and vision damage
- Liver and kidney damage
- Pancreatitis
- Cardiovascular injuries
- Severe birth defects
- Early closure of growth plates
- Lupus
- Suicidal thoughts and behavior
Have you guys looked into Lupus?How is lupus diagnosed?
In lupus, something goes wrong with your immune system, the part of the body that fights off viruses, bacteria, and germs (foreign invaders like the flu). Normally, our immune system produces proteins called antibodies that protect the body from foreign invaders. When you have lupus, your immune system cannot tell the difference between these foreign invaders and your bodys healthy tissues, so autoantibodies (automeans self andantimeans against:against self) are made that damage and destroy healthy tissue. These autoantibodies cause inflammation, pain, and damage in various parts of the body.
A doctor who is considering the possibility of lupus will look for signs of inflammation which include, pain, heat, redness, swelling, and loss of function at a particular place in the body. Inflammation can occur on the inside of your body (your kidneys or heart, for example), on the outside (your skin), or both.
There are many challenges to reaching a lupus diagnosis. Lupus is known as "the great imitator" because its symptoms mimic many other illnesses. Lupus symptoms can also be unclear, can come and go, and can change.
A physician will carefully review the following while evaluating a lupus diagnosis:
- your current symptoms
- your laboratory test results
- your medical history
- the medical history of your close family members (grandparents, parents, brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins)
All of this information may be necessary for a doctor to make a diagnosis of lupus.
A variety of laboratory tests are used to detect physical changes or conditions in your body that can occur with lupus. Each test result adds more information to the picture your doctor is forming of your illness. However, for a number of reasons listed below, laboratory tests alone cannot give a definite yes or no answer:
- No single laboratory test can determine whether a person has lupus.
- Test results that suggest lupus can be due to other illnesses or can even be seen in healthy people.
- A test result may be positive one time and negative another time.
- Different laboratories may produce different test results.
If multiple criteria are present simultaneously, a physiciana family practitioner, internist or pediatricianmay reach a lupus diagnosis. If, however, as is often the case, symptoms develop gradually over time, the diagnosis may not be as obvious, and consultation with a rheumatologist may be needed.
Excellent post!!
Print this off guys, take it in with you and staple to the forehead of every fucking doctor!
This drug is fucking bullshit and any doctor that just brushes shit off with tane side effects needs a wake-up call.
Lupus, what the hell is next that we were NEVER warned about??
12 hours ago, mikez said:Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
Shortly after tane it was pale (could not tan on the face) , then slowly came rosacea and redness.
This drug is Pandora's box essentially. Yes my skin reacts differently to the sun now then before. Heck my muscles don't even work like they used to (no lactic acid). It's changed our entire phenotype.
I think the best route is to write up full reports on your symptoms and side effects, find causality in science journals, and group together to form a class action lawsuit for the side effects that they didn't or failed to cover in their manual that everyone signed. Fortunately, I still have my iPledge sheets, with my inititals. I can see what side effects they missed. For instance if someone took accutane in the 1990's they probably weren't warned about gastrointestinal sides like we are now. Then we have to hope the science catches up.
But, I think class action is the way to go, we're stronger in numbers.
And for pale skin
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/symptoms-of-iodine-deficiency/
Sorry, I couldn't find the original article I wanted to post but google iodine pale skin and you will find a connection.
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/symptoms-of-iodine-deficiency/
15 hours ago, mikez said:Anyone else much more pale than usual always after tane? Its like going in the sun doesn't have much effect anymore. Ive been on nasal sprays since the end of Tane so not sure if that could have played an effect. I read once that pale skin can be one of the systemic sides of those sprays.
I believe I'm more pale after tane and definetly have harder time with tanning. I think alot of that has to do with my dryness. It seems like my body can't absorb water like it should. It's wierd that I have to drink water constantly and others around me can go long days with maybe one glass of water during lunch. Only 'tan' I seem to get nowadays is pigment moles.
Im not sure Im Iodine defient... my thyroid panels always come back normal... no doubt there are multiple causes of paleness in general though.
Possibly the skin doesn't absorb / convert vitamin D form the sun properly anymore. Accutane obviously changes the characteristics of the skin permanently.
On 2/18/2017 at 5:12 AM, ACCUiTy_drANE said:Honestly, I'd be careful going that route. Studies done on PFS individuals found that they have upregulated androgen receptors, yet they also have every symptom of low testosterone (despite these upregulated receptors). So regular-dose Propecia seems to already do what we would expect microdosing to do, yet the outcome is extremely unfavorable. But perhaps Accutane does the opposite of what Propecia does and upregulation would help us. Your perspective on whether or not microdosing Propecia would help depends on what theory you subscribe to.
That being said, I see people on PropeciaHelp who were dosing less than a mg per day. . . Just be careful, man. My position on the microdosing thing is more fragile than it once was.
Yeah I know what you're saying, and I'm aware it's a risk, but looking at it purely from the perspective of documented recoveries, there are at least 3 who have recovered via this method. Second to that would be RSO, which I've tried and was unsuccessful with (I couldn't get anywhere near the recommended dose), although this did show some glimpses of normality, but nothing lasting.
The next things I'm going to try anyway are another go at methylation as I think I've increased my tolerance to methylfolate a fair bit now, and also trying to balance serotonin and dopamine through diet and supplements;
[Edited link out]
9 hours ago, macleod said:This drug is Pandora's box essentially. Yes my skin reacts differently to the sun now then before. Heck my muscles don't even work like they used to (no lactic acid). It's changed our entire phenotype.
I think the best route is to write up full reports on your symptoms and side effects, find causality in science journals, and group together to form a class action lawsuit for the side effects that they didn't or failed to cover in their manual that everyone signed. Fortunately, I still have my iPledge sheets, with my inititals. I can see what side effects they missed. For instance if someone took accutane in the 1990's they probably weren't warned about gastrointestinal sides like we are now. Then we have to hope the science catches up.
But, I think class action is the way to go, we're stronger in numbers.
As someone who's trying to body build not being to build muscle naturally is what sucks to me the most. Here I am now 3 weeks on LGD-4033 and I'm finally getting some body building going. But I can't do it naturally.
I'm sorry but I think we're screwed
least I'm sure I am
i have had dry dry dry eyes skin nasal passages scalp and more
sincr 19 second course of Accutane was stopped due to alt ast elevated triglycerides cholesterol and more
im 28 and my eyes are always crusted mucus strings despite plugs restasis xiidra gel coconut oul
face flaky rashy dermatitis acne even with olive oil and water only
sjorgens was negative biopsy negative
told to eat dairy gluten wheat egg free been 4 months no benefits
was told my thyroid was dying in 2012 put on levothyroxine
went from 155-119 pounds
now told its cured lol
i have cold hands feet
insomnia
dryness everywhere
flushingg when nervous
anxiety OCD depression extremely bad
no meds help me
thos drug ruined my life and I don't know what to do anymore
i believe it screwed some of us and we should go to the ppl who made this drug and all come together and demand answers sue them or yea....
On 2/19/2017 at 12:44 AM, tanedout said:Yeah I know what you're saying, and I'm aware it's a risk, but looking at it purely from the perspective of documented recoveries, there are at least 3 who have recovered via this method. Second to that would be RSO, which I've tried and was unsuccessful with (I couldn't get anywhere near the recommended dose), although this did show some glimpses of normality, but nothing lasting.
The next things I'm going to try anyway are another go at methylation as I think I've increased my tolerance to methylfolate a fair bit now, and also trying to balance serotonin and dopamine through diet and supplements;
[Edited link out]
For dopamine try: Mucuna Pruriens. Contains a bit of natural l dopa