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Ginseng (Ginsenoside RB1) activation of NRF2
" Conclusion. Ginsenoside Rb1 is capable of ameliorating II/R induced lung injuries by activating Nrf2/HO-1 pathway. "
" RB1 significantly reduced renal injury and apoptosis as compared with IIR group, which was reversed by ATRA treatment. Immunohistochemistry and Western blot analysis demonstrated that RB1 significantly upregulated the protein expression of heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) and Nrf2, which were attenuated by ATRA treatment. " <-- meaning ATRA (all trans retinoic acid) inhibits NRF2.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26161243
More studies showing Ginseng activates NRF2
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ginsenoside+nrf2
QuoteIdentification of retinoic acid as an inhibitor of transcription factor Nrf2 through activation of retinoic acid receptor alpha.
Abstract
Isothiocyanates and phenolic antioxidants can prevent cancer through activation of Nrf2 (NF-E2 p45-related factor 2), a transcription factor that controls expression of cytoprotective genes through the antioxidant response element (ARE) enhancer. Using a human mammary MCF7-derived AREc32 reporter cell line, we now report that all-trans retinoic acid (ATRA), and other retinoic acid receptor alpha (RARalpha) agonists, markedly reduces the ability of Nrf2 to mediate induction of ARE-driven genes by cancer chemopreventive agents including the metabolite of butylated hydroxyanisole, tert-butylhydroquinone (tBHQ). The basal and tBHQ-inducible expression of aldo-keto reductase (AKR) AKR1C1 and AKR1C2 genes, which are regulated by Nrf2, was also repressed by ATRA in AREc32 cells. Antagonists of RARalpha augmented induction of ARE-driven gene expression by tBHQ, as did knockdown of RARalpha by using RNAi. The expression of the ARE-gene battery was increased in the small intestine of mice fed on a vitamin A-deficient diet, and this increase was repressed by administration of ATRA. By contrast, in the small intestine of Nrf2 null mice, the expression of ARE-driven genes was not affected by vitamin A status. In MCF7 cells, ATRA did not block the nuclear accumulation of Nrf2 but reduced the binding of Nrf2 to the ARE enhancer as a consequence of forming a complex with RARalpha. These data suggest that cross-talk between Nrf2 and RARalpha could markedly influence the sensitivity of cells to electrophiles and oxidative stressors and, as a consequence, to carcinogenesis.
So, retinoic acid turns off NRF2 leaving us unprotected. Supplements that activate NRF2 might make it easier to work with supplements that will actually help us. Again, I imagine this is a process that will take a sometime to show benefit.
15 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:Ginseng (Ginsenoside RB1) activation of NRF2
" Conclusion. Ginsenoside Rb1 is capable of ameliorating II/R induced lung injuries by activating Nrf2/HO-1 pathway. "
" RB1 significantly reduced renal injury and apoptosis as compared with IIR group, which was reversed by ATRA treatment. Immunohistochemistry and Western blot analysis demonstrated that RB1 significantly upregulated the protein expression of heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) and Nrf2, which were attenuated by ATRA treatment. " <-- meaning ATRA (all trans retinoic acid) inhibits NRF2.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26161243
More studies showing Ginseng activates NRF2
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ginsenoside+nrf2
So, retinoic acid turns off NRF2 leaving us unprotected. Supplements that activate NRF2 might make it easier to work with supplements that will actually help us. Again, I imagine this is a process that will take a sometime to show benefit.
Copper turns on NRF2 . it upregulates it 40x
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074552109004463
your copper wasnt high!
1 hour ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:Copper turns on NRF2 . it upregulates it 40x
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074552109004463your copper wasnt high!
from my liver biopsy, I had normal copper stores and serum levels but thatnis an interesting way to activate NRF2. This highlights a good point; theres more than one way to activate this pathway so a combination of nutrients/supplements is probably key.
On 24 janvier 2017 at 0:06 PM, TrueJustice said:Do you mean soy lecithin in powder form mixed with the olive oil?If we've got a prob with Vit A due to tane interfering with things, do you think liver cleansing is the answer or do we have a receptor issue?
1. If I remember well it was soy lecithin granules, if I find the source I'll post it.
2. I wish I knew the answer! In my opinion there are a lot of processes and chemical reactions messed, maybe some going too slow and some too quickly. And it depends on person, that's why we don't have all same sides. So if there was a unique action which took care of all sides for everyone, that would be miraculous.
6 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:from my liver biopsy, I had normal copper stores and serum levels but thatnis an interesting way to activate NRF2. This highlights a good point; theres more than one way to activate this pathway so a combination of nutrients/supplements is probably key.
what prompted the dr to give you a liver biopsy? Did you have a fatty liver or something? you ask about detecting any accutane stores I take it?
What did they tell you after the biopsy?
On a separate note still looking into this Lactoferrin.
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2009094484A1?cl=en
Methods for increasing hyaluronic acid levels and improving moisture retention in tissue (and you dont even have to inject it!)
They are talking about taking lactoferrin orally or topically to improve hyaluronic acid levels and moisture retention in tissue.
this is from wiki its also used to treat dry eyes in sjogren'ssydrome.
Lactoferrin levels in tear fluid have been shown to decrease in dry eye diseases such as Sjogren's syndrome.[68]A rapid, portable test utilizing microfluidic technology has been developed to enable measurement of lactoferrin levels in human tear fluid at the point-of-care with the aim of improving diagnosis of Sjogren's syndrome and other forms of dry eye disease.
here is another patent for hair growth with lactoferrin
https://www.google.com/patents/US20070020219
here is some general info on lactoferrin
A minor fraction of whey, lactoferrin appears to have a wide variety of uses in biological systems and is considered a first line immune defense in the human body. Though a natural component of cows and human mothers milk, lactoferrin is found throughout the human body and occurs in all secretions that bathe mucous membranes such as saliva, tears, bronchial and nasal secretions, hepatic bile, pancreatic fluids, and is an essential factor in the immune response. Lactoferrin is concentrated in oral cavities where it will come in direct contact with pathogens (i.e. viruses, bacteria, etc.) and kills or greatly suppresses these pathogens through a variety of different mechanisms. Exactly how lactoferrin exerts all of its immune modulating or immune enhancing functions is not entirely clear, but it is known to enhance the immune response both directly and indirectly (passively) in response to a wide range of immune challenges. Specific receptors for lactoferrin are found on many key immune cells such as lymphocytes, monocytes and macrophages, and is known to be directly involved in the upregulation of natural killer (NK) cell activity. Most research points to lactoferrin as being more of an immune modulator rather than a simple immune stimulant.
and if missed, I posted a study that lactoferrin was suppressed post treatment after 6 months of accutane. and levels didnt return to normal. Would levels return to normal in time? Does any of this mean anything? maybe so maybe not. Experience has taught me to lean towards the latter. Just another supplement.
Btw I dont think ed is as much a testosterone/hormone issue as it is a nerve sensitivity issue.
Accutane reduces the levels of testosterone receptors in your body. The article below applies this to the skin - which must account for a lot of testosterone reception as the skin is a large area of the human body - but what's to say that this doesn't occur for all testosterone receptors in the body?
You will test normal on testosterone level and DHT after taking Accutane. However, the message is going around, but no-one is there to receive it: the receptors for the testosterone in your body are decreased 2.6 fold by Accutane, as proved below. And this is just after 3 months. Rather than the removal of your balls from the outside of your body, your ability to receive the testosterone is removed from the inside of your body.
Effect of oral isotretinoin treatment on skin androgen receptor levels in male acneic patients
P Boudou, H Soliman, M Chivot, JM Villette, P Vexiau, A Belanger and J Fiet
Department of Hormonal Biology, St. Louis University Hospital, Paris, France.
'Androgen receptor status was investigated in back skin biopsies obtained in acne areas before and after 3 months of isotretinoin treatment. The treatment did not modify the binding affinity constant of skin androgen receptor (0.44 vs. 0.32 nmol/L), but it did induce a 2.6-fold decrease in its binding capacity constant (62 vs. 24 fmol/mg cytosolic protein), as assessed by Scatchard plot and confirmed immunologically by Western blot analysis. These data clearly showed that skin androgen receptor was sensitive to oral isotretinoin administration in acneic patients. The decrease in skin androgen receptor levels (this study) and the recently reported suppression of skin 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone production by isotretinoin treatment appeared consistent with the involvement of androgen receptor and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone in the pathogenesis of acne. Indeed, sebum production is under androgen control, and an abnormal response of the pilosebaceous unit to androgens appears to be implicated in the pathogenesis of acne. These observations were consistent with the absence of sebum in complete androgen-insensitive patients and normal sebum production in male pseudohermaphrodites.'
This was posted by the user: Violence back in 2008. But this supports the the idea that we may need to upregulate receptors. As mentioned in previous posts, one way that may work is by temporarily blocking the receptors so that the body naturally produces more, the same way LDN works.
Dr. Pezzi's approach makes sense to me but the idea of taking another pharmaceutical thats shown to harm people scares me.
On 1/27/2017 at 4:16 AM, starrfeesh said:Accutane reduces the levels of testosterone receptors in your body. The article below applies this to the skin - which must account for a lot of testosterone reception as the skin is a large area of the human body - but what's to say that this doesn't occur for all testosterone receptors in the body?
You will test normal on testosterone level and DHT after taking Accutane. However, the message is going around, but no-one is there to receive it: the receptors for the testosterone in your body are decreased 2.6 fold by Accutane, as proved below. And this is just after 3 months. Rather than the removal of your balls from the outside of your body, your ability to receive the testosterone is removed from the inside of your body.
Effect of oral isotretinoin treatment on skin androgen receptor levels in male acneic patients
P Boudou, H Soliman, M Chivot, JM Villette, P Vexiau, A Belanger and J Fiet
Department of Hormonal Biology, St. Louis University Hospital, Paris, France.
'Androgen receptor status was investigated in back skin biopsies obtained in acne areas before and after 3 months of isotretinoin treatment. The treatment did not modify the binding affinity constant of skin androgen receptor (0.44 vs. 0.32 nmol/L), but it did induce a 2.6-fold decrease in its binding capacity constant (62 vs. 24 fmol/mg cytosolic protein), as assessed by Scatchard plot and confirmed immunologically by Western blot analysis. These data clearly showed that skin androgen receptor was sensitive to oral isotretinoin administration in acneic patients. The decrease in skin androgen receptor levels (this study) and the recently reported suppression of skin 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone production by isotretinoin treatment appeared consistent with the involvement of androgen receptor and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone in the pathogenesis of acne. Indeed, sebum production is under androgen control, and an abnormal response of the pilosebaceous unit to androgens appears to be implicated in the pathogenesis of acne. These observations were consistent with the absence of sebum in complete androgen-insensitive patients and normal sebum production in male pseudohermaphrodites.'
This was posted by the user: Violence back in 2008. But this supports the the idea that we may need to upregulate receptors. As mentioned in previous posts, one way that may work is by temporarily blocking the receptors so that the body naturally produces more, the same way LDN works.
Dr. Pezzi's approach makes sense to me but the idea of taking another pharmaceutical thats shown to harm people scares me.
interesting. micro dosing GHK-CU?!
Androgens testosterone and DHT are major factors in scalp hair growth and male pattern baldness (androgenetic alopecia). Testosterone is converted to DHT in the hair follicles and DHT is considered to be a major factor in male pattern baldness. Testosterone conversion is also implicated in prostate and other problems.
DHT may accumulate in the pores of the scalp to cause increased hair loss and male pattern baldness as well as increased body hair and other negative effects.
To reduce DHT, the phrases of importance are: DHT Blocker, Antiaromatase, and 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. These substances appear to be beneficial because they all block the production of DHT.
DHT can cause problems in folicles of men predisposed to hair loss, particularly in cases of male pattern baldness. This may be exacerbated by excess testosterone orparasites. [Edited link out]
The following are generally in the group ofAnti-aromatases [Edited link out]and will inhibit production of DHT and estrogen, a really good idea for men particularly if using steroids.
Saw Palmettois inexpensive and effective when taken twice daily. 320 mg Standardized Extract is suggested with breakfast and dinner.
FinasterideAKA Proscar or Propecia is a profitable industry approved synthetic DHT blocker. Known to cause birth defects so if there is any chance of pregnancy, this may be dangerous.
Saw Palmettoappears safe, is inexpensive and effective when taken twice daily. 320 mg Standardized Extract is suggested with breakfast and dinner.
Rivoflavinis inexpensive and effective when taken twice daily. 320 mg Standardized Extract is suggested with breakfast and dinner.
ProcerinFairly recently introduced DHT blocker.
PropeciaDHT blocker, avoid near pregnant women.
Bayberry ExtractTopical. estimate the effect of bayberry alone as 82% of these figures. Good for long time use of anti-androgen, bayberry has no systemic side effect, but will color the scalp and solutions with alcohol are best avoided.
MinoxidilTopical. AKA Rogaine. Effective while used to increase hair growth. When discontinued, hair goes away. Women who are breastfeeding should not use minoxidil.[Edited image out]
Copper PeptidesControl growth and communication between cells. These show very promising effects. Comfrey root is an excellent example showing the high level of healing and growth properties of the anti-inflammatory allantoin, a copper peptide. These are powerful and caution is advised for internal use because locations with non-differentiated cells such as the liver may experience undesired growth, and current regulations prohibit comfrey tea and capsules. Significant enlargement of the hair follicles has been observed by transdermal use of copper peptides, specifically glycyl-l-histidyl-l-lysine:copper (II) or GHK-Cu for short.[Edited link out]
Crinagen[Edited link out]is another topical DHT inhibiting product that can be used by both men or women experiencing Androgenetic Alopecia. This is a discount pack three month supply.
So I had to do a quick taper off of Toremifene because basically right when I started it I fell into one of the deepest holes in my life. I thought mood swings was more of a issue with something like clomid. But I got it like right away with Toremifene and I've never been at such a low, I'm now 2days off and starting to feel a little more my self. Going to continue the GHK-Cu as the anti-inflammatory + workout 'pump'I've been seeing has been astonishing, enough that I'll be purchasing it again. I'll keep you guys updated if I see anything else.
Are there any deficiencies that we know accurate most likely causes? Any amino acids or adrenal hormones in particular? Anything depleted that could cause chronic, auto-immunelike inflammation? I've got idea and I could go through some trial and error, but if there is any info or findings about deficiencies and/or accutane-induced inflammation that you have or that has been talked about in the past would be awesome!
I personally take 10,000-20,000 iu of Vitamin A when i can remember. My night blindness would suggest a deficiency in vitamin A. I don't feel any better or worse mentally, but perhaps its benefiting physically. I just haven't stuck to doing it for more than a week. By then my nose and lips are dry like we felt while on accutane.
On 1/26/2017 at 2:46 AM, TrueJustice said:Lactoferrin sounds interesting. I'm just reading that it can also be used to treat acne.
Anyone tried it or can recommend better brands?
Havent been able to try it yet. My stomach has been too messed up. But this brings me to another thought. I wonder if there could have been a dermalogic change in the stomach that causes the stomach to produce too much acid. This is seen in a few rare conditions. That's why alot if us seem so sensitive to foods and supplements where we think we are having a reaction but it's just triggering more acid production and reflux that we don't recognize as reflux. Anyone max out on acid suppression and see how they feel after a few months? I'm talking about like 40mg of nexium twice a day. Alot of people seem to get the tongue coating, trouble breathing, heart issues, anxiety, facial flushing. This could all be triggered by unrecognized increased stomach acid production from accutane. There are test for basal acid output. And just like too little stomach acid, too much stomach acid can also interfere with digestion. Mainly the pancreatic enzyme lipase used to break down fat. People that have pancreatic insufficiency they actually recommend acid suppression when taking pancreatic enzymes. Just another thought. Changes in the stomach can go on completely unrecognized with no symptoms. But could have progressed to gastritis type systems, bloating, poor digestion And then reflux. That tongue coating can only be from a couple things. Bacterial imbalance or acid reflux.
1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:On 26/01/2017 at 7:46 PM, TrueJustice said:Lactoferrin sounds interesting. I'm just reading that it can also be used to treat acne.
Anyone tried it or can recommend better brands?
Havent been able to try it yet. My stomach has been too messed up. But this brings me to another thought. I wonder if there could have been a dermalogic change in the stomach that causes the stomach to produce too much acid. This is seen in a few rare conditions. That's why alot if us seem so sensitive to foods and supplements where we think we are having a reaction but it's just triggering more acid production and reflux that we don't recognize as reflux. Anyone max out on acid suppression and see how they feel after a few months? I'm talking about like 40mg of nexium twice a day. Alot of people seem to get the tongue coating, trouble breathing, heart issues, anxiety, facial flushing. This could all be triggered by unrecognized increased stomach acid production from accutane. There are test for basal acid output. And just like too little stomach acid, too much stomach acid can also interfere with digestion. Mainly the pancreatic enzyme lipase used to break down fat. People that have pancreatic insufficiency they actually recommend acid suppression when taking pancreatic enzymes. Just another thought. Changes in the stomach can go on completely unrecognized with no symptoms. But could have progressed to gastritis type systems, bloating, poor digestion And then reflux. That tongue coating can only be from a couple things. Bacterial imbalance or acid reflux.
Ive been banging on about stomach health now for years. After all the tests done last year I have an acid reflux problem ( I take pariot for this ) however when they don't find anything major there's not much the specialist can offer, basically you need to look after your own gut health, that's the verdict when nothing sinister is found.
The post further up the page about testosterone receptors being screwed after tane and there being an issue with sebum production rings very true. My thought is if it's dried the skin out that much how dry and screwed might our stomach health be or our organs for that matter!!! But again what can you do??? I don't expect the specialist to say here's a magic pill that will fix all the dryness.....oh how I wish!!
The best test I've done for stomach health was seeing an iridologist- pretty much instant for them to conclude if your gut health is in good shape or not simply by looking at your eyes.
He said mine was pretty bad, I guess after this it's up to you what you do next, what you're prepared to eliminate from diet and what you're prepared to take on etc.
By the way Pariot works to stop reflux absolutely but nothing else, still got all the other joys that come from tane - sorry to say.
Hey guys,
Again, I have the flu like everybody else but for some reason every time I have the flu it cures my brain fog completely and it gives me energy.
I dont know why it happens, maybe its due to the white blood cells I just dont know. But my brain fog is completely gone, I have my humor back and my energy is up.
I did however do a big CBD shot one week ago. 3 days after the shot I felt pretty good, had a 2 day dip after that and right now I have the flu + cure of brain fog + energy is up
I had bad stomach problems after accutane. Strictly follow a leaky gut diet for a while. Drink homemade kefir, kombucha tea. Take a high quality bone broth and collagen powder everyday. Stop eating tons of sugar and junk. No dairy unless it's milk kefir or raw milk. Take HCL and a good digestive enzyme with cooked meals especially after 7:30 p.m. and etc. My problems were waaaay bad. Now my stomach is all fixed up. Zero problems with stomach or digestion now. Let me know if you have any questions.
Im 10 years post-tane and I've done everything possible to address gut health and nothing has worked better than LDN. Digestion isn't perfect but its good enough that I don't think about it constantly anymore.
I think our retinoic acid (vitamin a) receptors are, for lack of a better term, shot. The same way the body will build a tolerance to anything that its receiving too much of. I think our retinoic acid receptors would down regulated or fried from the constant burden of having to deal with all the synthetic vitamin a being thrown at them.
There are people who know a lot more about this than me, but I think we need a retinoic acid antagonist. The same mechanism that LDN works for natural opioid receptors, may be effective for our vit a recptors. Naltrexone at very low doses blocks your opioid receptors and the body responds by upregulating those receptors, making your more sensitive/receptive to the natural opioid.
Personally, I believe we're chronically deficient in vit a. My symptoms definitely align with this anyways. I know that too much vit a sypmtoms are similar but I've avoided it and never improved just slowly have gotten worse. I think we cant handle vit a not because we're already overloaded with it, but because our body cant properly receive it.
I have no idea if this is even plausible but if we could use a retinoic acid inhibitor at a very low dose to to temporarily occupy the (few) receptors we do have, and trigger the body to naturally upregulate these receptors we may be able to process vitamin a again.
Its completely possible that accutane has fried other receptors as well, I have no idea. I do know that LDN has worked better and more consistently/long term than anything else i"ve tried, and I've tried everything.
This is my current thought anyways. I know there are a lot of people in this forum much more educated on the subject than me, and would love to hear their thoughts or if this route has already been tested. I think we are trying to address down river symptoms. If we dont address the problem at the top than we just continue to manage symptoms with no resolve.
Its completely possible our receptors are fried beyond repair and our only choice is to manage the symptoms. But I havent heard of anyone trying this yet, may be worth looking into.
I have seen in studies they claim they dont think isotretinoin affect RAR RXR receptors but I have my doubts.
I do know that LDN helps a ton of people with a broad range of issues and the mechanism is unique. Hopefully using the same mechanism but targeting different receptors could work.
Somebody mentioned Dr. Pezzis method, which I believe is similar to what Im getting at, and apparently he had great results addressing sexual dysfunction.
8 hours ago, starrfeesh said:I think our retinoic acid (vitamin a) receptors are, for lack of a better term, shot. The same way the body will build a tolerance to anything that its receiving too much of. I think our retinoic acid receptors would down regulated or fried from the constant burden of having to deal with all the synthetic vitamin a being thrown at them.
Read into GHK-Cu's action on retinoic acid receptors.
On 1/29/2017 at 2:11 AM, ehohel said:On 1/28/2017 at 5:32 PM, starrfeesh said:I think our retinoic acid (vitamin a) receptors are, for lack of a better term, shot. The same way the body will build a tolerance to anything that its receiving too much of. I think our retinoic acid receptors would down regulated or fried from the constant burden of having to deal with all the synthetic vitamin a being thrown at them.
Read into GHK-Cu's action on retinoic acid receptors.
GHK-cu could be really promising for our conditions if it's as effective at reducing inflammation as you feel it is. That guy who recovered from his PFS sides and put the PFSHealing site together reckons inflammation is the first thing to address before you can really start the healing process
Quotehormonal systems in the bodies of PFS victims have been knocked radically off balance, and despite the bodys attempts to repair and regress towards the mean, there are other factors that stop recovery.
The most important of those factors, and the subject of this article, is inflammation. Systemic inflammation stops PFS victims from returning to a functional hormonal balance.
[Edited link out]
On 1/29/2017 at 2:32 AM, tanedout said:GHK-cu could be really promising for our conditions if it's as effective at reducing inflammation as you feel it is. That guy who recovered from his PFS sides and put the PFSHealing site together reckons inflammation is the first thing to address before you can really start the healing process
[Editedl ink out]
GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine interleukin-6 (IL-6) which is a main positive regulator of fibrinogen synthesis, through its interaction with fibrinogen genes [18]. In cell culture systems, GHK suppresses IL-6 secretion in skin fibroblasts and IL-6 gene expression in SZ95 sebocytes [19,20].
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/151479/
One mM GHK significantly inhibited IL-6 expression in SZ95 sebocytes (21). In the past, several laboratories demonstrated local and systemic anti-inflammatory activity of copper compounds, particularly after subcutaneous administration. Copper-peptides could be used on the skin surface instead of corticosteroids or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, which have more side effects (22).
On 1/29/2017 at 2:32 AM, tanedout said:GHK-cu could be really promising for our conditions if it's as effective at reducing inflammation as you feel it is. That guy who recovered from his PFS sides and put the PFSHealing site together reckons inflammation is the first thing to address before you can really start the healing process
[Edited link out]
Why doesn't taking Curcumin work??
its supposed to be excellent for inflammation but doesn't do a thing??
The Peptide option is starting to look appealing - I just need to find someone who can stick a needle in me each day, unless someone can find a good brand that you can take orally!!?