Acne.org Products
3 hours ago, hatetane said:8 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:From my notes:4/26/14
-started clomid 25 mg every other day.
-weight ~195
10/1/14
-Stopped clomid
-Weight 210.5 lbs.-cut clomid in half sept 17,. 2014.
*experienced low libido, mood swings and weight gain.Very helpful, thanks. Are you saying clomid did not help with sexual sides - made then worse?
Exactly. Ginger is supposed to work like clomid minus all the sides. I get a T boost from it but also joint pain so I cannot use it.
http://www.ergo-log.com/gingertest.html
Enclomiphene is the new version that doesn't have the mood and estrogen problems of clomid but I dont know if it's int he market yet.
http://www.livescience.com/47094-clomid-treat-low-testosterone.html
I also used IGF-1 for a while. Felt better when I was on it in terms of energy but it was short lasting. My appetite was ravenous on it and I gained weight. It also made me appear older regrettably and my joints are still messed up.
Look, modulating symptoms is a good approach to feeling better and coping with sides but long term, we need to fix our vitamin A metabolism to reverse all the real problems. How? I dont know..long term antioxidants perhaps? When patients have low sperm count or motility, doctors cure it with antioxidants. Usually takes 3-6 months before patients see benefits. We might need a longer approach since our poison was stronger.
I also tested biotin which came back at the lower end of the spectrum. (0.17 ng/ml range 0.05 - 0.83) Its the only vitamin and gives me any kind of positive result. So Im convinced there's something there with the lowered biotinidase levels.
5 hours ago, ehohel said:5 hours ago, TrueJustice said:I hear you man - 20 years of this mess for me now.I don't want to go on to say nothing works but I should just accept that this systemic dryness is here to stay, there's certainly been no let up since getting off tane in 97.
That could be why, just can't relieve the dryness. How do you expect organs and glands to work properly in such a dried out state? Wish I had the answer!!
Getting my T levels up via AI gave me massive acne and oily face/skin.
Thats what I'm after - oily face again, I only ever had "backne" anyway - why oh why 
And see that's my other point, You got some oil back taking an AI - something you can easily buy from any bodybuilding nutrition warehouse yeah!?
Why on earth go on lifelong TRT treatment can someone pls explain??? What am I missing here?
3 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Thats what I'm after - oily face again, I only ever had "backne" anyway - why oh whyAnd see that's my other point, You got some oil back taking an AI - something you can easily buy from any bodybuilding nutrition warehouse yeah!?
Why on earth go on lifelong TRT treatment can someone pls explain??? What am I missing here?
I don't believe TRT is the answer. Raising T for sure will help and if your T is really low and your life is in the bin then For most normal
older men I would say that TRT would be an option but you really need to get it right and work with a really experience practitioner.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work for PFS guys. As for accutane victims - we don' have enough data but I have yet to hear about anyone who claimed that it helped.
It would be good if Goldsteine (San Diago) was open about his protocols and any successes he might have had,
I know he has treated PAS, I just don't know if he has had any success.
He gives free 15 mins tel consultation if anyone interested in trying to get inf
As for all the talk about reducing E
Also found this.
http://finasteridesyndrome.blogspot.co.uk/p/how-to-treat.html
17 hours ago, TrueJustice said:And see that's my other point, You got some oil back taking an AI - something you can easily buy from any bodybuilding nutrition warehouse yeah!?
No, they're prescription only.
3 hours ago, Roland1968 said:What kind of aromatase inhibitor did you use?
Thanks
anastrozole, if you try this out make sure you do research and know what you're getting involved with, this is another "nuke" that can have detrimental side effects just like accutane 
" When tested in rat ulcer models, GHK-Cu reduces gastric acidity, increases mucous production and inhibits the development of gastric ulcers. Likewise, in intestinal ulcer models, GHK-Cu inhibits ulcer development [78“80]. GHK-Cu and other copper complexes produced a 75% reduction of gastric mucosa homogenates of lipid peroxidation in the range 10“100 mM, suggesting that copper-peptide complexes are able to neutralize oxygen-derived free radicals [81]. One small study of 16 patients with distal inflammatory bowel disease, who were treated with rectally administered solutions of GHK-Cu, found that after 12 weeks™ treatment there was a 60% reduction in severity as measured by endoscopy, histopathology and symptoms [82]."
" Block poisoning of liver tissue
Tetrachloromethane (carbontetrachloride) is a toxic organic solvent that causes severe damage to liver tissue. In rats, ten daily intraperitoneal injections of GHK in doses of 1.5 to 450 mg/kg stimulated mitotic activity of hepatocytes and dose-dependently suppressed immune reactivity (number of antibody-producing cells and delayed-type hypersensitivity reaction) [87]. To test GHK™s action on tetrachoromethane poisoning, rats were pre-treated with an intraperitoneal administration of GHK at 2.5 mg/kg for 5 days before the administration of a lethal dosage of tetrachloromethane poisoning and 5 days after the poisoning. The GHK protected rats from tetrachloromethane-induced liver damage and the hepatic tissue maintained normal functional activity and immunological responsiveness [88]. "
Goddamn I wanna experiment with super high doses but that would be like $100 per injection.
1 hour ago, ehohel said:No, they're prescription only. anastrozole, if you try this out make sure you do research and know what you're getting involved with, this is another "nuke" that can have detrimental side effects just like accutane
So a product like Erase Pro which from what I read is an AI, this won't cut it, is it not strong enough??
12 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:So a product like Erase Pro which from what I read is an AI, this won't cut it, is it not strong enough??
I used that for a few months, and it resulted in some improvements, but nothing ground breaking and the improvements didn't last long after stopping. Wouldn't recommend it if I'm honest.
Nothing new to us but I feel better seeing it on "paper".
[Edited link out]
Physiologic Effects of Vitamin A
- Epithelial cell "integrity": Many epithelial cells appear to require vitamin A for proper differentiation and maintenance. Lack of vitamin A leads to dysfunction of many epithelia - the skin becomes keratinized and scaly, and mucus secretion is suppressed. It seems likely that many of these effects are due to impaired transcriptional regulation due to deficits in retinoic acid signalling.
Vitamin A Deficiency and Excess States
Vitamin A deficiency
- Abnormal function of many epithelial cells, manifest by such diverse conditions as dry, scaly skin, inadequate secretion from mucosal surfaces, infertility, decreased synthesis of thyroid hormones and elevated cerebrospinal fluid pressure due to inadequate absorption in meninges.
On 1/24/2017 at 10:36 AM, MonsterDiesel said:Nothing new to us but I feel better seeing it on "paper".
[Edited link out]
Physiologic Effects of Vitamin A
- Epithelial cell "integrity": Many epithelial cells appear to require vitamin A for proper differentiation and maintenance. Lack of vitamin A leads to dysfunction of many epithelia - the skin becomes keratinized and scaly, and mucus secretion is suppressed. It seems likely that many of these effects are due to impaired transcriptional regulation due to deficits in retinoic acid signalling.
Vitamin A Deficiency and Excess States
Vitamin A deficiency
- Abnormal function of many epithelial cells, manifest by such diverse conditions as dry, scaly skin, inadequate secretion from mucosal surfaces, infertility, decreased synthesis of thyroid hormones and elevated cerebrospinal fluid pressure due to inadequate absorption in meninges.
Well have we decided yet if it's excess Vit A we have a prob with i.e hence the need to use things like Calcium d Glucarate to rid it from body, Or do we have a lack of Vit A after tane cause it screwed up our natural reserves??
The part that says "elevated cerebrospinal fluid" could this alone explain the pressure many of us have in the head?? One of the first things I read about negative experiences after tane was headaches/pressure in head that people went to their Dr about.
I wonder if it's due to this?
38 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Well have we decided yet if it's excess Vit A we have a prob with i.e hence the need to use things like Calcium d Glucarate to rid it from body, Or do we have a lack of Vit A after tane cause it screwed up our natural reserves??The part that says "elevated cerebrospinal fluid" could this alone explain the pressure many of us have in the head?? One of the first things I read about negative experiences after tane was headaches/pressure in head that people went to their Dr about.
I wonder if it's due to this?
If I have butter, I get that pressure sensation in my head every single time. It's not really a headache, it's more like pressure. That explanation makes sense to me. Fluid builds but can't drain. That's exactly what it feel like.
The vitamin A system in our bodies is not working and even though we had an excess of a Pro-vitamin A drug, it manifests very much like a deficiency in our bodies. Maybe the receptors are downregulated? Added to that, we don't have an actual deficiency. I bet most of us have normal stores. In fact, it's those normal stores of Vitamin A that keep making us feel like crap and keep our side effects going. The solution is not depleting our bodies of Vitamin A or trying to get rid of any stored Isotretinoin or its metabolites, it's fixing the vitamin A system/receptors/signaling pathways.
How? I have no freaking clue. Its' funny how vitamin A deficiency looks just like Hypothyroidism yet our labs all come out normal. So our bodies produce thyroid hormones, they just dont' produce the downstream effects because vitamin A is needed for this.
What we need is long-term antioxidant therapy to repair that system. We'll know we are cured when we can tolerate vitamin A containing foods once again. Do I have any proof? NOPE. But that's the angle used in medicine to repair long standing damage from Diabetes, infertility, etc. The downstream effect of any insult placed onto our cells is oxidative stress and that what does the actual damage.
I would take reasonable doses of vitamin D/E/K2 every day in addition to iodine, glutathione and superoxide dismutase. Also, we need to find a fat soluble antioxidant (maybe one of the caerotenoids - lutein, lycopene, etc) that works on the vitamin A system while at the same time producing no side effects. I was thinking of Lycopene but I haven't used it yet so I can't recommend it. There's other oils like red fruit oil and gac oil that seem interesting but more research and n=1 experiments are needed. I experimented with Astaxanthin years ago thinking it might help and while it instantly boosted testosterone I got crazy joint pain that didn't go away for days. And that was from one dose.
Man, ive spent years chasing symptoms and its gotten me nowhere other than frustrated.
On the other hand, do we know of any accutane user whos symptoms disappeared after a liver transplant? That would answer a lot of questions for us.
1 hour ago, MonsterDiesel said:If I have butter, I get that pressure sensation in my head every single time. It's not really a headache, it's more like pressure. That explanation makes sense to me. Fluid builds but can't drain. That's exactly what it feel like.The vitamin A system in our bodies is not working and even though we had an excess of a Pro-vitamin A drug, it manifests very much like a deficiency in our bodies. Maybe the receptors are downregulated? Added to that, we don't have an actual deficiency. I bet most of us have normal stores. In fact, it's those normal stores of Vitamin A that keep making us feel like crap and keep our side effects going. The solution is not depleting our bodies of Vitamin A or trying to get rid of any stored Isotretinoin or its metabolites, it's fixing the vitamin A system/receptors/signaling pathways.
How? I have no freaking clue. Its' funny how vitamin A deficiency looks just like Hypothyroidism yet our labs all come out normal. So our bodies produce thyroid hormones, they just dont' produce the downstream effects because vitamin A is needed for this.
What we need is long-term antioxidant therapy to repair that system. We'll know we are cured when we can tolerate vitamin A containing foods once again. Do I have any proof? NOPE. But that's the angle used in medicine to repair long standing damage from Diabetes, infertility, etc. The downstream effect of any insult placed onto our cells is oxidative stress and that what does the actual damage.
I would take reasonable doses of vitamin D/E/K2 every day in addition to iodine, glutathione and superoxide dismutase. Also, we need to find a fat soluble antioxidant (maybe one of the caerotenoids - lutein, lycopene, etc) that works on the vitamin A system while at the same time producing no side effects. I was thinking of Lycopene but I haven't used it yet so I can't recommend it. There's other oils like red fruit oil and gac oil that seem interesting but more research and n=1 experiments are needed. I experimented with Astaxanthin years ago thinking it might help and while it instantly boosted testosterone I got crazy joint pain that didn't go away for days. And that was from one dose.
Man, ive spent years chasing symptoms and its gotten me nowhere other than frustrated.
On the other hand, do we know of any accutane user whos symptoms disappeared after a liver transplant? That would answer a lot of questions for us.
Dont know of anyone who's had a liver transplant but there was the guy who did 15 liver flushes after tane and claimed to be cured - I've done 5 of them and last month did a kidney cleanse but haven't noticed anything - still dry as I've always been.
What you said about oxidisation rings very true - thin hair, for me varicose veins, floaters and general inflammation all feels like either Vit A doesn't get processed or Vit E & D aren't working.
Infortunately for us no one knows what to do. As we know, things that should help us never really do - body just doesn't respond like it should.
As said here http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-pursuit-of-happiness/ accutane can be bound to vitamin A receptors and the body handles it differently if it was real vitamin A, so according to them we face in fact a deficiency.
Have done some liver flushes in the past too, not sure if they did anything. Somewhere I have seen an explanation to why they could have been uneffective on us:people with fat malabsorption should take soja lecithin with olive oil for it to be absorbed. Haven't tried it yet.
3 hours ago, sacha_n said:As said here http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-pursuit-of-happiness/ accutane can be bound to vitamin A receptors and the body handles it differently if it was real vitamin A, so according to them we face in fact a deficiency.
Have done some liver flushes in the past too, not sure if they did anything. Somewhere I have seen an explanation to why they could have been uneffective on us:people with fat malabsorption should take soja lecithin with olive oil for it to be absorbed. Haven't tried it yet.
Do you mean soy lecithin in powder form mixed with the olive oil?
If we've got a prob with Vit A due to tane interfering with things, do you think liver cleansing is the answer or do we have a receptor issue?
8 hours ago, MonsterDiesel said:If I have butter, I get that pressure sensation in my head every single time. It's not really a headache, it's more like pressure. That explanation makes sense to me. Fluid builds but can't drain. That's exactly what it feel like.
Ive found this to be true as well. I started getting pressure headaches/sensations after finishing my course of Tane. I have to limit my vitamin A foods, and make sure I have low fat dairy and not too many eggs. I'm curious about what a lumbar puncture would show, but I doubt any clinician would do it.
Following on from the recent discussions about Clomid, I see one guy on the AllThingsMale forum was apparently having some success using Clomid, followed by a stint on an AI (Aromasin) along with Pregnenolone;
[Edited link out]
Has anyone supplemented with Pregnenolone before? A lot of the PFS guys seem to get quite good results from it.
It seems this stuff is absolutely destroyed by taking finasteride, so chances are its the same with accutane (note Pregnenolone is a pre-cursor to Allopregnenolone, just look at these figures)
QuotePregnenolone, like DHEA, is a steroidal hormone manufactured in the body. Pregnenolone is a precursor hormone synthesized from cholesterol, principally in the adrenal glands, but also in the liver, skin, brain, testicles, ovaries, and retina of the eyes.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx
Well would be no surprise if our levels of pregnenolone were extremely low. My gastrointestinal tests showed cholesterol at non-detectable levels which was a surprise. The guy in the link above also has very low cholesterol, and I can think of at least one person on this thread whose had a blood test and found levels were very low.
Why do you need Cholesterol? Few things here will ring a bell..
Quotecholesterol. This soft, waxy substance is found not only in your bloodstream but also in every cell in your body, where it helps to produce cell membranes, hormones, vitamin D, and bile acids that help you digest fat.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/04/14/vitamin-d-cholesterol-levels.aspx
Pregnenolone is clearly a very important steroidal hormone, so if were deficient its not hard to see how it could lead to problems with the creation of other hormones, and brain fog;
Quote
- Pregnenolone is the grand precursor from which almost all of the other steroid hormones are made; including DHEA, progesterone, testosterone, the estrogens, and cortisol.
- Pregnenolone appears to be the most potent memory enhancer yet reported in animals. Pregnenolone has been reported to not only make people smarter but happier
- Pregnenolone may be one of the most important hormones because it seems to have a balancing effect. It is a precursor to many other hormones and may be able to bring the levels of other hormones up or down as needed.
- Pregnenolone also operates as a powerful neurosteroid in the brain, modulating the transmission of messages from neuron to neuron and strongly influencing learning and memory processes.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx
Anyone had a neurosteroid test? Anyone supplemented with pregnenonlone before?
Ive tried it for a short period, but Im going to add it in again seeing as Ive got loads left. Im already focusing on trying to increase my healthy cholesterol levels with loads of fatty/oily fish, avocado, flax seeds etc.
I used pregnenolone for a while and dhea. Dhea caused palpitations. I cant rember what effect I got from pregenenolone. I think at some point I gained weight on it and blamed it on cortisol production but dont quote me on that. I noticed cuts didnt heal as quickly while on it.
18 hours ago, ehohel said:No, they're prescription only. anastrozole, if you try this out make sure you do research and know what you're getting involved with, this is another "nuke" that can have detrimental side effects just like accutane
I did some research. Puh - I think I will keep my hands off
On 1/24/2017 at 7:26 PM, ehohel said:Read into GHK-Cu that we've been talking about last few pages.
Injecting stuff is not for me, unless you can obtain in supplement form?
On 1/24/2017 at 9:04 PM, tanedout said:Following on from the recent discussions about Clomid, I see one guy on the AllThingsMale forum was apparently having some success using Clomid, followed by a stint on an AI (Aromasin) along with Pregnenolone;
[Edited link out]
Has anyone supplemented with Pregnenolone before? A lot of the PFS guys seem to get quite good results from it.
It seems this stuff is absolutely destroyed by taking finasteride, so chances are its the same with accutane (note Pregnenolone is a pre-cursor to Allopregnenolone, just look at these figures)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx
Well would be no surprise if our levels of pregnenolone were extremely low. My gastrointestinal tests showed cholesterol at non-detectable levels which was a surprise. The guy in the link above also has very low cholesterol, and I can think of at least one person on this thread whose had a blood test and found levels were very low.
Why do you need Cholesterol? Few things here will ring a bell..
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/04/14/vitamin-d-cholesterol-levels.aspx
Pregnenolone is clearly a very important steroidal hormone, so if were deficient its not hard to see how it could lead to problems with the creation of other hormones, and brain fog;
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx
Anyone had a neurosteroid test? Anyone supplemented with pregnenonlone before?
Ive tried it for a short period, but Im going to add it in again seeing as Ive got loads left. Im already focusing on trying to increase my healthy cholesterol levels with loads of fatty/oily fish, avocado, flax seeds etc.
I agree with taking fish oil - others won't due to Vit A, but doubtful this is for me as my cholesterol is still too high - got tests last week, Dr wants me back taking oats to help reduce it, fish oil is also advisable ( I just bought Udo's 3,6,9 )
I know from experience to watch how much butter, milk, cheese etc to consume when on fish oil - it's easy to get very irritable if you overdo it!!
On the other hand if your cholesterol is low this might be for you!!
11 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:Injecting stuff is not for me, unless you can obtain in supplement form?
It can be absorbed through the skin but I'm unaware if that's systematic or how absorption is affected. But this stuff might have potential to replace the accutane stores in the liver with copper if I read correctly, also dropped my inflammation + has incredible healing properties and fixes DNA damage + retinoic acid receptors.Ultimately your choice, but regarding healing/liver/gut health this looks EXTREMELY promising.
59 minutes ago, ehohel said:It can be absorbed through the skin but I'm unaware if that's systematic or how absorption is affected. But this stuff might have potential to replace the accutane stores in the liver with copper if I read correctly, also dropped my inflammation + has incredible healing properties and fixes DNA damage + retinoic acid receptors.Ultimately your choice, but regarding healing/liver/gut health this looks EXTREMELY promising.
I won't say it isn't interesting but I'm kidding myself if I think I'll be good with needles - I'm not.
The whole copper thing still intrigues me - out of all the tests it was the most conclusive result I've had - high copper!!!
Do you think there's tane still in liver pushing copper out into the blood do you?
Why not more liver cleanses then???
with soy lecithin perhaps?
I'm looking into my antioxidant theory and found this which is exactly what I was saying in other posts.
"Clinical use of retinoic acids (RA) is hindered by toxicity possibly related to oxidative stress. Recently, RA at relatively low concentrations was shown to inhibit NRF2 and the expression of its target antioxidative genes. This raises the possibility that RA toxicity may result from cellular inability to cope with resultant oxidative stress. "
QuoteNRF2 as a determinant of cellular resistance in retinoic acid cytotoxicity.
Abstract
Clinical use of retinoic acids (RA) is hindered by toxicity possibly related to oxidative stress. Recently, RA at relatively low concentrations was shown to inhibit NRF2 and the expression of its target antioxidative genes. This raises the possibility that RA toxicity may result from cellular inability to cope with resultant oxidative stress. Using in vitro cell and in vivo mouse models, we report that RA, specifically all-trans-RA (atRA) at concentrations implicated in toxicity, can activate NRF2 and induce NRF2 target genes, particularly the subunits of the rate-limiting enzyme of glutathione biosynthesis, glutamate cysteine ligase (GCLM/GCLC). RNA interference-mediated silencing of NRF2, but not of retinoid X receptor-alpha and -beta, reduced basal and atRA-induced GCLM/GCLC gene expression. Moreover, RA increased nuclear accumulation of NRF2, antioxidant response element (ARE) reporter activity, and NRF2 occupancy at AREs. 4-Hydroxynonenal, a lipid peroxidation product, was increased by RA. Inhibition of MEK1/ERK mitogen-activated protein kinases significantly suppressed atRA-induced NRF2 activation and ARE-regulated gene expression, reducing cell resistance against toxic concentrations of RA. NRF2-silenced cells were vulnerable to atRA-induced mitochondrial toxicity and apoptosis. In conclusion, toxic RA activates NRF2, thereby triggering an adaptive response against the resultant oxidative stress. NRF2 enhancement as a therapeutic target of retinoid toxicity awaits further investigation.
Identification of retinoic acid as an inhibitor of transcription factor Nrf2 through activation of retinoic acid receptor alpha.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18048326
This link is a great read on what NRF2 is and how to turn it on. One such activator is Ginseng, sulphoraphane and lycopne but those are not the most potent activators. This is being evaluated for all kinds of chronic problems from arsenic poisoning to copd, diabetes and chronic kidney disease. In other words, chronic problems that medicine can't cure. This is where we will find our solution.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4680839/
NRF2 Mediates Neuroblastoma Proliferation and Resistance to Retinoic Acid Cytotoxicity in a Model of In Vitro Neuronal Differentiation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26541884
Nicotinic Acid also seems to be an activator of NRF2. This is plain old Niacin. Big pharma picked up on this and created Tecdifera which works via activating NRF2. Clever, but I'll stick with plain old Niacin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFE2L2#Clinical_drug_target
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3679291/
Using both animal and cell culture model, Wu et al recently showed that nicotinic acid supplementation inhibited vascular inflammation via Nrf2 regulated heme oxygenate-1 (HO-1) induction
2. NA enhances glutathione synthesis via Nrf2 activation. A very recent study using human coronary artery endothelial cells (HCAECs) showed that NA at mM levels induced Nrf2 activation, a major transcription factor in regulating glutathione synthesis