4 hours ago, macleod said:

What tests would you recommend someone with post tane sides to get, and what tests would you like to get in the future, if you haven't done so?

Hi, Idoubtthat you will get a doctor to agree to all these tests.
So as aminimum insist, beg, threaten lol to get theDr Shippen or short list test done.

As you can see these 3 list overlapso print of all three and discuss with your doctor.
Dr Shippen is a prominent PFS doctor.
Clomid and HCG seems to be the way a young man would be treated for Low T.
Dubya had clomid treatment many years ago and says it didn't help his low libido and ED. Another boy on the forum says clomid restored hid ED and libido but he was still so depressed and anxious that he had not been able to benefit from the improvements.
I can't remember who the boy is now without searching through all my messages but he is not very forthcoming. I do know that he had low E and low T.

Clomid is the standard treatment for accutane damage used by Dr Goldsteine in San Diago. I have no
idea if he has had success or not but I do know that you can get a 15 minute free telephone appointment with him.

Many young men say that their T comes back withinrange because that is what the doctors tell them. I have first hand knowledge that Hormones are altered by accutane.
When a doctor measures T they give you a range but they don't give you the healthy range for your age.
So what I am saying is is that your T might be within range but it might be low for your age or much lower than it previously was and this would effect you in some way.

I would push for extensive testing if I were you. Youwill have to be adamant and nag you doctors to leave no stone unturned. It really surprises me the amount of guys on here that don't even have simple blood tests done - not even a FBC.

I also suggest asking for a CRP test whichwill show if you have inflammation.
Inflammation can and will lead to many problems which include crohns, IBS and other bowel/stomach problems. Google inflamation/ED.

Remember, there is no protocol for post accutaners. This list of tests is the recommended for PFS. You have to fight your corner guys and remember that no one will care about your health the way you do. PFS guys, probably because they are older or just because PFS has more recognition than it once did manage to get these tests done. There are many threads on their forums about clomid and TRT.
I don't think their is a great success rate but some claim it helped then.

I just believe that you got to know what you are dealing with. Get extensive testing done so that it might become obvious if you have a
hormonal imbalance - you can at least try and address some of these problems. Will it lead to a cure - who knows but we have to start somewhere.
I am not sure in having private health Ins helps or not but for anyone who has access to National Health Service, remember - it was the NHS
that did this to you in the first place and you should argue that you have a right to know how they destroyed your life!!!

Thank you H.T. I will post the results when I get them. Oh, no worries, I will get all of them done. And if not. I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.

In other news, Check out this cool new video from 3 days ago!

7 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

If the problem is truly with "dead receptors" or desensitized receptors, the first place my mind goes is in the realm of hormesis. The basic idea is: A compound may cause a harmful effect in a small dose, but when microdosed, a compensatory ("good") mechanism may take place. The best analogy is Naltrexone. For those who don't know: We know this drug antagonizes (i.e., blocks) opioid receptors.  That's all it does at 50 mg. But at small doses (4.5 mg and lower), it blocks the receptors for a short time, which causes the body to compensate by 1) up-regulating opioid receptors, 2) sensitizing the receptors, and 3) boosting endorphins. So a small dose does something radically different than a big dose.

So could a compound do something similar for androgen receptors? If we blocked these receptors with microdoses of some compound, perhaps something similar could occur with androgen receptors. It's not impossible, given the fact there are myriad real-world examples of hormesis at work. The problem is doing so safely and NOT accidentally making the problem worse. The blockage would have to be short-lived so that the body could respond by sensitizing receptors. And that's assuming testosterone/DHT is the root of our issues in the first place! As a side note, I know I've heard people mention microdosing Propecia and Accutane to deal with persistent side effects. What a repugnant thought though.

Absolutely repugnant but I heard that also and Shippen said as much to me.
I do believe T is lowered but I think E is a bigger problem.
So many PFS and PAS report high E with side effects such as Gyno etc but what when E is low ( also reported but less numbers I suspect)
but still gyno and irregular fat disposition.
I have been researching this for months with no progress.
For the really devoted guys on here - please help. If anyone is seeing an Endo soon please ask them.
It would seem T is being converted at a highish rate to E but that the E is not showing up in serum but is obviously there and doing some damage.
I would really appreciate some knowledge if any of you have it.

2 minutes ago, macleod said:

Thank you H.T. I will post the results when I get them. Oh, no worries, I will get all of them done. And if not. I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.

Good lad - a true Scot lol
The more side effect your report the more likely you are to get extensive testing done.

Good luck and keep us up-dated.

2 hours ago, macleod said:

Thank you H.T. I will post the results when I get them. Oh, no worries, I will get all of them done. And if not. I'll make him an offer he can't refuse.

In other news, Check out this cool new video from 3 days ago!
 

 

What a beautiful lady - sending out a very strong msg. How very sad

SO I'm a little over a week into my SARM and I just can't handle it anymore. I need to get off, the suppression in feeling just isn't manageable I felt a lot better on the AI.

So what I'm deciding to do is a full blown PCT and see where that gets me. I just need to do a little more research into what SERM(s) to choose. Cause I think I saw somewhere that the second generation serms are better than the first ones like clomid. (At least regarding side effects) I think I saw somewhere clomid can cause depression which I rather not fuck with considering that's one of the reasons I'm stopping my SARM. I think it's safe for me to assume that my lethargy and depression is correlated with low T. Given my SARM suppression, and general well being on an AI.

20 minutes ago, ehohel said:

SO I'm a little over a week into my SARM and I just can't handle it anymore. I need to get off, the suppression in feeling just isn't manageable I felt a lot better on the AI.

So what I'm deciding to do is a full blown PCT and see where that gets me. I just need to do a little more research into what SERM(s) to choose. Cause I think I saw somewhere that the second generation serms are better than the first ones like clomid. (At least regarding side effects) I think I saw somewhere clomid can cause depression which I rather not fuck with considering that's one of the reasons I'm stopping my SARM. I think it's safe for me to assume that my lethargy and depression is correlated with low T. Given my SARM suppression, and general well being on an AI.

It's important to test and to KEEP testing.
If are trying to alter homones you have to be assured that what you are doing is going to help and not make things worse.
I did like the look of that PCT someone posted a while back.

clomid

8 hours ago, hatetane said:

Absolutely repugnant but I heard that also and Shippen said as much to me.
I do believe T is lowered but I think E is a bigger problem.

That very well could be true. But I think one viewpoint is that although testosterone level may be normal or low-normal, that is irrelevant as long as receptor sensitivity is (possibly) diminished. Estrogen may be an additional problem, or the predominant problem. Currently, I am experimenting with various dietary protocols. But assuming this fails, I will eventually try some healing peptides, and then as a last resort, move on to trying things like Clomid and Anastrozole. Based on past studies, I know staying on these compounds can cause nasty problems, including cognitive impairment. So it will be a short-term thing for me, just to help gauge where the problem truly lies. Blood tests would be a great idea, but they don't always tell the whole story. I think the responsibility is ultimately on myself to self-experiment if I want to fully recover. For me, my sex drive is perfectly healthy and my erection health has only improved with time. It's the brain fog, anhedonia, and IBS (to a lesser extent lately) that is nagging me.

In terms of the tests you provided, couldn't you request some of those via a private lab if the doctor wouldn't agree to it? I wonder how expensive it would be. I would love to add to our wealth of knowledge.

16 hours ago, ehohel said:

Too lazy to google right now, but are there any existing drugs that's a 5ar antagonist with short half life?

Dubya_B provided some compounds. The problem is that I don't know how long is too long and how short is optimal. For example, if you took a 5ARI with a half-life of 6-8 hours everyday, you may very well end up with overall diminished DHT activity. But a few hundred micro-grams of said compounds may do the trick.

On 18.01.2017 at 2:51 PM, Pido said:

I do believe Accutane had atleast some effect on my height growth. When I started taking Accutane it was August and in the spring before that I was 175 cm and now I'm 178. The thing is that I was 12 at the moment and I always had been bigger than my peers, but now I'm slightly shorter than average young man in my country. Also I have very small hands. Feels like I didn't never fully develop into a man. I have been playing with the idea what it would be like if hopped on HGH now as a adult.

I feel sorry about you , kinda dark story. But what you mean by saying hopped on HGH ? im still 18 so i have my last chance to grow my height , do you mean is there any pills which boost growing ? do you mean growing hormone supplements ? also one last question ; is there any possibility that accutane caused me a low growing with only 4 days of usage ?? i still have low semen volume because of 4 days of usage. So , is it also could affect my height ? I read that Accutane kills the pituatry grand cells so the body can not send growing message , to the bones.. is it possible for me ?

I've done all my blood tests at a private lab, (anylabnow) for all those tests on the previous page, total was around $600

16 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

If the problem is truly with "dead receptors" or desensitized receptors, the first place my mind goes is in the realm of hormesis. The basic idea is: A compound may cause a harmful effect in a small dose, but when microdosed, a compensatory ("good") mechanism may take place. The best analogy is Naltrexone. For those who don't know: We know this drug antagonizes (i.e., blocks) opioid receptors.  That's all it does at 50 mg. But at small doses (4.5 mg and lower), it blocks the receptors for a short time, which causes the body to compensate by 1) up-regulating opioid receptors, 2) sensitizing the receptors, and 3) boosting endorphins. So a small dose does something radically different than a big dose.

So could a compound do something similar for androgen receptors? If we blocked these receptors with microdoses of some compound, perhaps something similar could occur with androgen receptors. It's not impossible, given the fact there are myriad real-world examples of hormesis at work. The problem is doing so safely and NOT accidentally making the problem worse. The blockage would have to be short-lived so that the body could respond by sensitizing receptors. And that's assuming testosterone/DHT is the root of our issues in the first place! As a side note, I know I've heard people mention microdosing Propecia and Accutane to deal with persistent side effects. What a repugnant thought though.

This was pretty much the method used by Dr Pressi? Prezi? (any old school members remember the name of this guy? Believe he wrote a book on recovering from his sides, but I can't remember the correct spelling of his name). He took a very small amount of finasteride over a course of months and made a full (albeit slow) recovery. 

I was trying to find info on the guy and his protocol (which I've read before). Anyone have the links?

6 minutes ago, SaffronAide said:

On 1/18/2017 at 11:51 AM, Pido said:

I do believe Accutane had atleast some effect on my height growth. When I started taking Accutane it was August and in the spring before that I was 175 cm and now I'm 178. The thing is that I was 12 at the moment and I always had been bigger than my peers, but now I'm slightly shorter than average young man in my country. Also I have very small hands. Feels like I didn't never fully develop into a man. I have been playing with the idea what it would be like if hopped on HGH now as a adult.

I feel sorry about you , kinda dark story. But what you mean by saying hopped on HGH ? im still 18 so i have my last chance to grow my height , do you mean is there any pills which boost growing ? do you mean growing hormone supplements ? also one last question ; is there any possibility that accutane caused me a low growing with only 4 days of usage ?? i still have low semen volume because of 4 days of usage. So , is it also could affect my height ? I read that Accutane kills the pituatry grand cells so the body can not send growing message , to the bones.. is it possible for me ?

Interval training in a fasted state increased HGH by 2000% in men in one study. Might be worth at least doing intermittent fasting, or a series of short term water fasts if you want to increase HGH

https://draxe.com/intermittent-fasting-benefits/

1 hour ago, ehohel said:

I've done all my blood tests at a private lab, (anylabnow) for all those tests on the previous page, total was around $600

Brilliant - your a star.

Keep us posted!!

This is worth a listen.
I like the was that this doctor treats the individual.

K. Based on my research I've decided that I'm going to doToremifene + Clomid PCT for about 2 months gradually going down in dosage.

My Tore is gonna be here in 2 days, while the Clomid is coming over seas and will probably take 1 1/2 weeks. Should I wait for that to start both at the same time or do you guys think I'll be a-ok starting the Tore asap and the Clomid when it comes.

Whoh,

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/151479/

Check out table 4.Retinoic acid receptor, alpha, RARA 123%

I wonder if this will make any difference, I have no idea if there's any science behind our retinoic acid receptors being damaged but if they are this GHK-Cu could be amazing. I just did my first injection 2mg and I haven't noticed anything negative, so I'm going to start doing 4mg daily see if anything happens.

Hey guys, I understand there is a real wealth of information in this thread, but it is a little too dense for me to search through right now.
Could anyone give me a list of potential alliviators of joint pain/inflammation. Nearly 2 years off Accutane and still living with debilitating elbow/wrist and knuckle pain. I'm a 21 year old girl and I find writing my coursework or my waitressing job so difficult because of this. At the moment I take highstrength glucosamine as well as multivitamins and probiotics, any other suggestions? Fish oil?
Thankyou in advance

Hey guys,

I would like to ask some advice because I really don't know what to do anymore (sorry I don't want to be a downer because I know everyone in this thread is going through shit). I had a lot of bad side effects when I came of the Roaccutane (depression, emotional numbness, hair loss, dry and pale skin, feeling brain dead, loss of libido, ED,..). I was so lucky because after 5/6 months it seemed like everything went away or more like I was recovered from all these bad side effects. After that I was the luckiest man on earth. I was so grateful that I got myself and my life back and forgot about everything after days of feeling on top of the world. Let's say I was completely like I was pre-accutane. But since 2 months and a half I'm back in this horrible state. I seem to suffer more from mental changes then physical. But all my side effects returned. Now I'm typing this message here because I don't know what to do anymore and it seems nobody in my near space knows any answers or even understands what I'm going through. I keep going to doctors explaining myself and getting blood tests done, going to psychiatrists,... I also don't have the knowledge of all the things you guys talk about and because I feel like i've lost al my IQ I don't understand much of what's said in this thread.

I would like to ask some opinions. Do you guys think it's possible to 'recover' and that all the side effects go away but return after several months? I just don't know anymore. I keep blaming all my mental changes and all these weird things on the Roa because before I took this drug I never experienced such things. It's even worse now. The person I was is completely gone. But it just seems so weird to me that I would recover and feel perfect but then it would hit me back again all of a sudden. Should i have hope that it would go away again or should i stop blaming roa for all of this? What do you guys think?

Sorry for this weird post guys. I feel lost I guess..

2 minutes ago, HideAndSeek said:

Hey guys,

I would like to ask some advice because I really don't know what to do anymore (sorry I don't want to be a downer because I know everyone in this thread is going through shit). I had a lot of bad side effects when I came of the Roaccutane (depression, emotional numbness, hair loss, dry and pale skin, feeling brain dead, loss of libido, ED,..). I was so lucky because after 5/6 months it seemed like everything went away or more like I was recovered from all these bad side effects. After that I was the luckiest man on earth. I was so grateful that I got myself and my life back and forgot about everything after days of feeling on top of the world. Let's say I was completely like I was pre-accutane. But since 2 months and a half I'm back in this horrible state. I seem to suffer more from mental changes then physical. But all my side effects returned. Now I'm typing this message here because I don't know what to do anymore and it seems nobody in my near space knows any answers or even understands what I'm going through. I keep going to doctors explaining myself and getting blood tests done, going to psychiatrists,... I also don't have the knowledge of all the things you guys talk about and because I feel like i've lost al my IQ I don't understand much of what's said in this thread.

I would like to ask some opinions. Do you guys think it's possible to 'recover' and that all the side effects go away but return after several months? I just don't know anymore. I keep blaming all my mental changes and all these weird things on the Roa because before I took this drug I never experienced such things. It's even worse now. The person I was is completely gone. But it just seems so weird to me that I would recover and feel perfect but then it would hit me back again all of a sudden. Should i have hope that it would go away again or should i stop blaming roa for all of this? What do you guys think?

Sorry for this weird post guys. I feel lost I guess..

See an endo, get you hormones checked, if your low on T as basically all of us are and you rather not lab rat shit like me, TRT might be a possible option as a bandaid. (Not permanent solution) that's what someone else here recently started.

This might be something worth looking into.
They say Lactoferrin Didnt come back post treatment of tane.
there was a study I was reading on Stallions, yes horses,That lactoferrin levels were highest once puberty hit.
What is Lactoferrin? A little info from wiki, involved in bodily fluids such as tears, nasal secretions, saliva,mucosal type stuff amongst many other functions.
its a antifungal, antivirus, antibacterial substance that babies start to acquire from mothers milk. it helps form the gut.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24916439

Isotretinoin therapy changes the expression of antimicrobial peptides in acne vulgaris.

Molecular structure[edit]
Lactoferrin is one of the transferrin proteins that transfer iron to the cells and control the level of free iron in the blood and external secretions. It is present in the milk of humans and other mammals,[8] in the blood plasma and neutrophils and is one of the major proteins of virtually all exocrine secretions of mammals, such as saliva, bile, tears and pancreas.

Found it - it was Dr Pezzi (doctor who cured his tane sides with Finasteride. Worth a re-read with a number of members having quite a good understanding now of potentially why this may have worked;

Quote

pezzi treats accutane sexual side effects with finasteride !...

"If DHT did not affect libido or sexual sensation then discontinuing finasteride would not produce these effects. However, it is clear that DHT does play a beneficial role. Yet why should discontinuing finasteride produce positive effects that go beyond mere elimination of the negative effects of a DHT deficiency? In other words, why were his erections noticeably better than they were before he used finasteride? The short answer is that the body becomes more sensitive to DHT during a period in which DHT is deficient"

"Hyperbole? Not at all. Ive personally tried finasteride cycling, and I know it works. It produced miraculous changes. Before using finasteride I had very poor sexual sensation, weak ejaculations, a shrinking penis, and no longer became fully erect. When I could achieve an erection, it was difficult to maintain. My libido was so pathetic that I sometimes became jealous when patients in their seventies described their sex livesand I was four decades younger!

Things went further downhill while I used finasteride. After I discontinued it, however, I experienced a true sexual metamorphosis. My sexual sensation intensified from next to nothing to so acute that even things that never felt good before, such as a light touch from cotton underwear, now felt very good. The pleasure that I obtained from masturbation was more intense than it had been even in my teenage years. My ejaculations went from barely dribbling out to explosive jets of much greater volume. My erections were now rock hard, effortless to maintain, and triggered by the slightest sexual thought (and sometimes spontaneously present even when I was not thinking of sex). My sexual frequency went from three times per month to three times per day, but the libido boost was even greater than what my sexual frequency might suggest. When the frequency was thrice monthly, that activity was usually initiated not because I felt horny but because I noticed a vague scrotal pressure, or I thought that it was advisable to masturbate as a tune-up to prevent my sexual ability from waning even more. When my frequency was thrice daily, I was not fully satisfied by the three orgasms even though their intensity boggled my mindit was just that I needed to get some work done!

Now for the best part, but first an embarrassing revelation. My penis had shrunk, losing over 1 inches in length, and deflating to a flaccid size so small that one day I looked at it and realized that it looked just like it did when I was a boy! For a man, that is very alarming. After finasteride, though, it grew larger than it had ever been, and my flaccid size was now larger than my fully erect size as a teenager."

[Edited link out]

@MTS& @HideAndSeek- I'd definitely focus on diets, minimal sugar and processed foods, lots of leafy greens, lean meats and oily fish like salmon etc. Dry/stiff joints sounds like low e.

15 hours ago, MTS said:

Hey guys, I understand there is a real wealth of information in this thread, but it is a little too dense for me to search through right now.
Could anyone give me a list of potential alliviators of joint pain/inflammation. Nearly 2 years off Accutane and still living with debilitating elbow/wrist and knuckle pain. I'm a 21 year old girl and I find writing my coursework or my waitressing job so difficult because of this. At the moment I take highstrength glucosamine as well as multivitamins and probiotics, any other suggestions? Fish oil?
Thankyou in advance

Yea, you can't go wrong with supplements in moderation. Don't go too high on glucosamine. Although, to be perfectly honest, we have tried them all, to minimal avail. Hyaluronic acid or (Baxyl). A diet consisting of tumeric, garlic, cucumber, you name it. I can say that while our bones continue to crack and creak in a pre-arthritic state, there is hope, and it does get better if you gradually work through the pain. Believe it or not, the solution is to stretch and exercise more, but it does suck. I think I had a year or two of painful, throbbing, inflamed rotator cuffs. Year or two of knee, foot, or leg tendon issues. Just continued to work through them. Slowly increasing exercise. You literally have to go through hell and back...but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

OK so GHK-Cu is weird. This morning I injected 4mg subQ and like all my inflammation disappeared. This 4mg was stronger than the highest ibuprofen dose I've ever taken regarding inflammation reduction. (like 1.2grams ibuprofen). About an hour later I worked out and I've had the strongest pump/soreness I've ever had regarding lifting. Also I'm in a ridiculously good mood and don't feel sluggish mentally (probably because of CNS inflammation reduction?)

I'm curious weather these effects will last after the full vial or if this is only while it's in my blood stream. Cause if it's only while it's in my blood stream I think that price tag isn't too bad cause I feel fan-fucking-tastic.

Here's a good list of info on GHK-Cu that I stumbled upon.
https://mega.nz/#F!hMJ1xZYK!IWmVcpJdImKzQwy_16vpAg

All I can say is get on T, and get workin out. accutane is literally a lesson we didnt deserve or get the chance to recover from but as Stephan said at one point, "I just want to move on from accutane" I mean I keep following this thread in hope and always will but its tough because i dont think we can localize or find one antedote that is going to fix or mask all the areas accutane dried up. thats why i say maybe Testosterone is the closest thing.

T and maybe a mood stabalizer if you really need it lol. or just T and eat fruit and get ur body fat down to 0000000

15 minutes ago, IntimateHemp said:

All I can say is get on T, and get workin out. accutane is literally a lesson we didnt deserve or get the chance to recover from but as Stephan said at one point, "I just want to move on from accutane" I mean I keep following this thread in hope and always will but its tough because i dont think we can localize or find one antedote that is going to fix or mask all the areas accutane dried up. thats why i say maybe Testosterone is the closest thing.

T and maybe a mood stabalizer if you really need it lol. or just T and eat fruit and get ur body fat down to 0000000

Many of you guys are moving into regions I'm unable to keep up with, injecting this & that ( Peptides ) in the hope of finding a cure. There are literally hundreds of supplements and drugs mentioned in these 400 pages, we all like to mention what we think is the latest and best thing to take and I'm as guilty as anyone with this approach but we make very little mention of what to drop along the way?? I mean, whilst taking these peptides are you still taking things like Tudca, biotin, zinc??.......who would know?

Many of you are very brave for injecting stuff but I can't go there, too risky and would much rather take the natural approach with diet changes and supplements - is this a cure? No but I'm not willing to fuck myself up even more with an unknown peptide or breast cancer drug, just can't do it.

About the only thing I'll consider is Cannibas oil - it's in the media a lot and seems to relieve/cure many people with a wide range of health problems.

The other point is, half of us are on the path to fixing sexual issues, the other half don't even have these problems but instead have more mental issues to deal with. Those saying it's all about fixing Testosterone - I'm not sure that would mean much to those who got Bowel disease from Accutane, the point being that tane effects much more than just hormones yeah......