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3 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:I wonder if many of the suicides from accutane could've been prevented by supplementing them with lithium orotate.
It's possible that we have all become lithium deficient.Lithium orotate supplementation seems incredibly safe. It's even found in some springs where people get healing.
I supplemented with this for about 1.5 months straight in 2013 (10mg daily) and I didn't notice anything from it (brand was Doctors Best), so potentially worth trying a higher dose.
tanedout,
And how is your mental state? Are you depressed at all or are things fine with sadness, anxiety, etc..
I also took lithium a while back. Took 450mg total (took about 90 days). I was on such a low dosage that I didn't notice anything. But, now that I think about it. I had depression extremely bad in the past and now I don't. Something definitely fixed it. EDIT: Also, I went through a sauna & niacin detox protocol. I think the high dose niacin also contributed greatly. I have zero depression now.
3 hours ago, tanedout said:I supplemented with this for about 1.5 months straight in 2013 (10mg daily) and I didn't notice anything from it (brand was Doctors Best), so potentially worth trying a higher dose.
Yes ive supplemented with it too, prob for about the same amount of time - didn't notice anything!
Maybe a higher dose was needed or maybe it's not the answer for me. Didn't know you could get you're levels checked so I would recommend this first before wasting more money on another supplement!
Can we still focus on Copper as it is popping up too often in tests to be a coincidence - there must be more to it in relation to our problems!?
7 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:been interested in lithium for a while now. also really interested in DHEA. DHEA is converted into DHT. ill be getting a DHEA-S and another ceruloplasmin test this week.
There are a lot of post Accutane suffers who have taken DHEA with success and some didn't get results.
Yetanotheraccutanevictim. You could hold the key here for alot of us. You are not that far removed from taking accutane compared to some of us. You took a very high dose for a long period of time. I just looked at your profile for the first time and saw all the side effects you are suffering from. Your free copper level is absolutely not right. You need to get with a good doctor who will recognize this and find out why this number is so high. You have concrete evidence that most of us don't have that something is dead wrong.
3 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Yetanotheraccutanevictim. You could hold the key here for alot of us. You are not that far removed from taking accutane compared to some of us. You took a very high dose for a long period of time. I just looked at your profile for the first time and saw all the side effects you are suffering from. Your free copper level is absolutely not right. You need to get with a good doctor who will recognize this and find out why this number is so high. You have concrete evidence that most of us don't have that something is dead wrong.
I would have to agree with you on most with yetanotheraccutanevictim...except on one thing..... he did take a high dose, but I would almost bet out all of you I have you beat! 120pds last dose at 8 months 120mg....total 17,500 I. U. of pure poison. If I remember correctly reading his posts back in 2014 we have a lot of the same issues minus I actually have dx of autoimmune disorders.
from another forum.......
1HEALTHYWOMAN
I'd like to report a very successful personal experience with a Liver Flush using:
1 tsp l Taurine
2 cups homemade raw milk kefir
3 TBS hemp seed oil
I mixed these 3 ingredients together without realizing what an amazing healing tonic and Liver Flush I was creating. Immediately on day one my body released hundreds of bile stones. Over the first week this continued to occur daily. I would drink this tonic alone and within 15 minutes I would feel some heaviness and aching in the area of my liver which would last about 30 minutes. Then a couple of hours later my body would release hundreds of gall stones.
I have continued on this cleanse for the past 3 weeks now and am noticing an overall change in my health. My hunger level has risen dramatically (a good sign of a cleaner liver), pain in my right shoulder has disappeared and my vision has become more sharp and clear.
In addition to the physical indications of cleansing I have also had a release in cellular memory. Old emotional wounds which I have not thought of for many years have suddenly come to mind, complete with very strong emotional content. This uncomfortable period is always followed by a rush of energy which is strongly felt as chi begins to move freely in partially blocked areas.
After being on this regime for a few weeks I added in 8 oz of apple juice daily (just as on Hulda Clark 's flush) and found an increase in daily gall stone release.
Just to be sure my liver was flushing fully I have done the full Hulda Clark cleanse a couple of times while on this regime over the past 2.5 months. On those days I did not drink the kefir/l taurine/hemp oil blend. Interestingly the Epsom Salts and olive oil cleanse did not release 1/10th of the number of stones I have found my body releasing daily while on this inspired kefir blend.
Based on my personal experience I believe I may have stumbled on a superior liver cleanse based on supplying the liver with what it needs to cleanse itself, rather than on the traditional mild Epsom Saltpoisoning.
On 6/6/2016 at 5:41 PM, tryingtohelp2014 said:
from another forum.......
1HEALTHYWOMAN
I'd like to report a very successful personal experience with a Liver Flush using:
1 tsp l Taurine
2 cups homemade raw milk kefir
3 TBS hemp seed oilI mixed these 3 ingredients together without realizing what an amazing healing tonic and Liver Flush I was creating. Immediately on day one my body released hundreds of bile stones. Over the first week this continued to occur daily. I would drink this tonic alone and within 15 minutes I would feel some heaviness and aching in the area of my liver which would last about 30 minutes. Then a couple of hours later my body would release hundreds of gall stones.
I have continued on this cleanse for the past 3 weeks now and am noticing an overall change in my health. My hunger level has risen dramatically (a good sign of a cleaner liver), pain in my right shoulder has disappeared and my vision has become more sharp and clear.
In addition to the physical indications of cleansing I have also had a release in cellular memory. Old emotional wounds which I have not thought of for many years have suddenly come to mind, complete with very strong emotional content. This uncomfortable period is always followed by a rush of energy which is strongly felt as chi begins to move freely in partially blocked areas.
After being on this regime for a few weeks I added in 8 oz of apple juice daily (just as on Hulda Clark 's flush) and found an increase in daily gall stone release.
Just to be sure my liver was flushing fully I have done the full Hulda Clark cleanse a couple of times while on this regime over the past 2.5 months. On those days I did not drink the kefir/l taurine/hemp oil blend. Interestingly the Epsom Salts and olive oil cleanse did not release 1/10th of the number of stones I have found my body releasing daily while on this inspired kefir blend.
Based on my personal experience I believe I may have stumbled on a superior liver cleanse based on supplying the liver with what it needs to cleanse itself, rather than on the traditional mild Epsom Saltpoisoning.
Interesting, I'd like to be able to look into that.
None of the doctors I've been to seem to care about my issue, so I'm gonna try to order blood tests myself. What tests do you guys suggest I should subject my blood to?
Greetings,
I don't believe I've posted to this forum, but I've been a lurker for a while. I took Accutane in high school (now I'm 29, finally finishing college) and my life ever since has been largely a struggle to cope with the symptoms while also holding out hope (perhaps fruitlessly) for some sort of permanent relief. I was hit pretty badly with the mental and cognitive effects. I'm sure I've tried almost everything in regards to supplements. Obsessively exercising and living healthily has enabled me to move my life forward, but the core symptoms remain. It's clear this drug, at least in some cases, does something akin to flipping one or more biochemical "switches" in one's body. Once these switches are flipped, so to speak, it's not a matter of allowing your body time to recover or detox, as the body doesn't switch them back naturally.
7 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:[liver flush alternative]
I saw this a few days ago when I was researching other compounds to enhance the liver flush. I don't think it's better than the original flush recipe. It may be dangerous. I also believe that person was loaded with stones as she was clearly having extreme congestion in the liver and gallbladder which was indicated by pain and achiness in the liver area.
Points:
1. It may not be that her recipe was special but that she was simply overflowing with stones waiting to be released. Taurine may not be the magic bullet that she thought (although, it's not a bad idea to include some in a flush).
2. Food-grade epsom salt is not poisonous. It's simply magnesium sulfate. The only dangers are:
- possible kidney damage if ingesting too much at one time. I only use 8 g per dosage, myself (dissolved in warm water)
- brief sulfur toxicity if one has overburdened CBS enzymes
- electrolyte imbalance due to the laxative effect (which is necessary and can be easily remedied with coconut water)
3. Epsom salt is needed to prevent a stone from getting stuck in the bile ducts and it helps cause a release of cholecystokinin.
- http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02997291
(Mg SO dilates common bile duct sphincter)
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1352753/
4. Epsom salt is necessary to prevent reabsorption of toxins via enterohepatic circulation by increasing bowel motility (laxative effect).
- If a bunch of gallstones and toxic bile are released into the duodenum, the drug residuals will be reabsorbed and possibly cause worse side-effects as they are redeposited in the tissues.
5. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about raw milk kefir or hemp seed oil in regards to the liver & gallbladder flush.
- Milk has a small amount of choline that could be useful I suppose but egg yolks are a much better alternative. They are one of the highest foods in choline.
- High fat ingestion and bile duct dilation are key. Milk and 3 tbsp of hemp seed oil aren't ideal for this.
6. The recipe lacks citrus juice which assists with optimal gallbladder contraction
- The acidity from the citrus juice causes a faster transit time of the oil through the stomach by triggering the pyloric sphincter muscle to relax letting the fat reach the duodenum in one big bolus dose. This causes a bigger bile squirt compared to only allowing oil into the duodenum in smaller amounts at a time. This is why I use lemon juice with my flushes.
"Planned liver flushes? Probably 10-15. Coffee enemas? I went for about a 3 month period where I did 2 a day, so about 90-100 coffee enemas. The number of liver flushes it takes for you to completely cleanse your liver of gallstones and liver stones is going to depend on how well you are attending to it... how you prep for flushes.. etc... ie: someone who's doing liver reflexology and castor oil packs everyday will have FAR more successful liver flushes than someone who just flushes 'cold'.. or with no prep. Drinking ACV everyday is also very very underrated, as it's so important to soften stones and break them down... and the malic acid in the Raw ACV does that. Honestly... I can't say if I had or have any lingering effects from Accutane at this point.. I took it back in 2007 for 6 months..but there were and are so many other drugs in the mix that it's impossible to make sense of what has caused what... or what is still causing what. Taking that accutane really was a gateway to being polydrugged for the past 8 years.. with everything from benzos to corticosteroids to antidepressants."
... anyways... after about 45 mins, the flush would typically finish up and things were done... at this point, I was usually pretty tired from my body trying to process all of the oil, and I'd lay down and rest.... the next day, I made sure to do AT LEAST 1 coffee enema to purge the released bile and gall/liver stones into the toilet and any flukes or parasites I killed off.*I think the comment has been deleted*
--
Forum user, anonyy, also fully recovered by purging his liver and using homeopathy.
If anyone wants to dig through some of my genetics, take a look here: [Edited link out]
Could someone figure out if I am indeed Wilson's disease positive or negative for a fact?
On 6/6/2016 at 12:03 PM, guitarman01 said:Yetanotheraccutanevictim. You could hold the key here for alot of us. You are not that far removed from taking accutane compared to some of us. You took a very high dose for a long period of time. I just looked at your profile for the first time and saw all the side effects you are suffering from. Your free copper level is absolutely not right. You need to get with a good doctor who will recognize this and find out why this number is so high. You have concrete evidence that most of us don't have that something is dead wrong.
2
35 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:If anyone wants to dig through some of my genetics, take a look here:LINK
Could someone figure out if I am indeed Wilson's disease positive or negative for a fact?
lets forget the term Wilson's disease. it would maybe be helpful though to look at your atp7 a and b genes just in case. But I have no idea how to interpret that data and their could be numerous variations that dont mean shit. bottom line is your unbound free copper level needs to come down. alot.
Another accutane user who completely cured himself with liver flushing:
He did 15 of them. He used to have a video on youtube detailing his story but he took it down because so many people were asking for help. I typed up a summary of that video while it was still posted up. Here it is:
"
9 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:
Havent watched yet but what's the verdict - supplament Copper or try to reduce it??
Interesting when I looked up TMG supplement it said it was good for combating Copper toxicity amongst other things and went on to say that more people are 'Toxic' with Copper than are deficient.
Which one are we I ask??
Copper is an essential element and a critical component of many metalloenzymes. However, excess copper, particularly the free (ie, not bound to proteins) fraction, may lead to tissue injury due to pro-oxidant effects and depletion of antioxidant reserves.
Copper excess is also associated with cancer, preeclampsia, dilated cardiomyopathy, inflammation, biliary obstruction, Alzheimer disease, and total parenteral nutrition.[1,48]
Yetanotheraccutanevictim's free copper 31. Reference range is 10-15
This number is proof of damage from accutane.
This is a ground breaking study they sure as hell didnt know about back in the 80s
Oxidative DNA Damage by Vitamin A and Its Derivative via Superoxide Generation
http://m.jbc.org/content/275/3/2003.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636903
Experiments using32P-labeled isolated DNA demonstrated that retinol and retinal caused Cu(II)-mediated DNA damage
Superoxide is produced as a by-product of oxygen metabolism and, if not regulated, causes many types of cell damage
You must watch the copper videos. It's not as easy as just simply supplementing copper. However, I must note that I did indeed order two bottles of copper glycinate. Arriving tomorrow.
--
A very helpful response I got from Nature Crazy:
My question
"Do you know the dosage of TUDCA the founder of Nature Crazy took? And what length of time it took for him to recover?
Reply
" No problem, he followed the standard dosage from this brand. http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Powders-TUDCA-Tauroursodeoxycholic-Capsules/dp/B00CFOQAWQ
Towards the end he may have upped the dosage to 500 mg a day which I believe would be two of those capsules a day. (That was after he had used a smaller dosage and let his body adjust to it)
Tudca is supposed to be extremely helpful for cholestasis and liver health. Liv52 and Milk Thistle are supportive of the liver too but in a different way. Might be something yo consider.
Also you might want to consider consuming more choline, maybe like a tbl of soy lecithin taken 1-3x a day. If you have calcified stones take 500mg of magnesium along with 3-10mg of silica daily. I heard that it could be good to hold off on the liver flushes until you are sure the bile is running properly again because the Accutane could potentially reabsorb in the body. Don't know if this goes for everybody and with that being said I know that liver flushes at some point are definitely helpful and are absolutely great.
Its still critical to use other detoxification supplements to help the body remove the Accutane because it can still recirculate back into the body. It sounds like that is something that happened to your friend. Calcium D Gluconate, MSM, and Coconut Oil can help with this.
There are some other supplements that could probably be beneficial to you because they support the entire body. For example Bovine Colustrum can regrow the entire thymus gland. Powerful Antioxidants like Resveratrol and Curcumin, Alpha lipoic acid are great too. They are frequently used in the hair loss community to battle inflammation and stimulate hair growth.
You might want to experiment with a supplement called Ormus as well. Also I heard great things about TMG for cholestasis. It helps to increase methylation, which is usually an issue for Accutane suffereres. You might want to go over to forums-dot-phoenixrising-dot-me, look in the Detox/Methylation forum, and read up on the information there. I think it might have something to offer you.
Hope this helps!"
8 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Copper is an essential element and a critical component of many metalloenzymes. However, excess copper, particularly the free (ie, not bound to proteins) fraction, may lead to tissue injury due to pro-oxidant effects and depletion of antioxidant reserves.
Copper excess is also associated with cancer, preeclampsia, dilated cardiomyopathy, inflammation, biliary obstruction, Alzheimer disease, and total parenteral nutrition.[1,48]Yetanotheraccutanevictim's free copper 31. Reference range is 10-15
This number is proof of damage from accutane.
Thanks for info - I suspect that I too have excess 'free' copper. This might explain the bad varicose veins I have, greying hair, possibly even the eye floaters!?
So just to be clear I got tested for 'serum copper' ( 17 ). When I go to doctor next week I should ask to do the RBC Copper test correct??
4 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:TrueJustice,
What is your ceruloplasmin level?
Get whole blood histamine checked as well.
Thats what I'm trying to find out, the RBC Copper test is the Ceruloplasmin indicater correct??
We've got to get these Copper levels sorted out, free copper, stuck copper, I don't give a shit, just want a doctor or someone to tell me if I'm toxic or deficient - it's one or the other as far as I'm concerned.
Hope to share results after next lot of testing!
Saw this today and thought I'd share it with you guys.
Roaccutane(isotretinoin) is a synthetic retinoic acid. The body uses retinoic acids to regulate gene expression. Gene expression means the way that cells are created (simplified a lot). Cells to be created needs transcription and replication of DNA. To put it simple, it's like making a cake. You need the ingredient list to be able to make the cake. The body needs DNA to be able to make the cells. Retinoic acids comes in this process by regulating the gene expression. It means that retinoic acid is a part of the creation of the cells. Retinoic acids binds to specific receptors in the body and play his role in the transcription and replication of DNA.
Here are some gene where retinoic acid play an important role (transcription and replication) :
Gene
Oxyticine......................................reproduction
Growth hormone...........................Growth
Phosphoenol puryvate...................Gluconeogenese (metabolism of sugar)
Alcohol dehydrogenase..................alcoholic oxidation
Transglutaminase..........................Growth and death of the cells
Laminine B1..................................Cellular interaction
GLA matrix protein.........................Growth and synthesis of the bones
Keratin........................................Skin
Retinol binding protein type I...........Vitamin A metabolism
RAR............................................... Vitaminic A action
HOX 1.6..........................................fetus growth
Dopamine receptor D2.....................CNS (central nervous system).
Why roaccutane heal acne :
Because Roaccutane and retinoic acid play a key role in the skin keratin gene. Acne is a keratin problem. So to fix acne you need to change the way DNA replicates for the keratin process to be brought to normal in patient with acne (having keratin problems). Roaccutane is the best known retinoic acid when it comes to keratin problems. So where is the problem with Accutane. Wellthe problem with Accutane is that unfortunaltely it doesn't act only on the Keratin gene. It also act (to a lesser extent on all the genes That I named previously). Here comes the side effects.
We've seen that Accutane acts on the keratin gene. It changes the way it replicates. That's why the people get dryer skin and no more acne, they also get peeling of the lips, hands, bleeding of the noose, dry scalp, dry skin, eye irritation. But these symptoms aren't that harsh. And even if some stay long term it definitely isn't a problem for acne sufferers.Accutane leaves in the cells receptors small traces of retinoic acids for very long term. That's the reason Accutane is considered a permanent cure to acne. Very small amount of it (we're talking about micrograms) are left on cells receptors for long term.that's why even after cessation of the treatment the acne is still gone.
The other side effects.
Bone pain : this one comes from the change in the replication and transcription of the GLA matrix protein gene. Accutane affect this gene.
Low blood sugar : this one comes from the change in the replication and transcription of Phosphoenol pyruvate gene. Accutane affect this gene.
Teratogenicity (means messes with the foetus growth). This one comes from the change in the replication and transcription of the HOX 1,6 gene. Accutane affect this gene.
Insomnia, depression suicidal thoughts, muscle twitching... This one comes from the change in the replication and transcription of the Dopamine receptor D2 gene. Accutane affects this gene.
Weight loss (unable to gain weight back), weight gain. This one comes from the change in the replication and transcription of the Growth hormone gene. Accutane affect this gene.
Now why do Accutane causes terrible side effects to some and not so terrible side effects to the most. There are mainly two reasons :
- Accutane is isotretinoin : a synthetic retinoic acid that is supposed to only affect the keratin gene. It does affect all the other genes but to a lesser extent.
- Accutane is introduced in the body, damage is starting to be done to the body. Cells dies at a greater rate or grow at an anarchic rate. Most of the people can repair the damage so the rate at which cells are repaired is greater than the rate at which cells are damaged. Remember that each day millions of cells are created and millions of cells are dying. It is the aging process. Accutane in some person illicit a greater damage rate and the body with time is no longer able to repair the damage at the same rate it is done. That's why some people have reported side effects from Accutane years after they stopped the drug.
This is how roaccutane works for getting rid of acne and also how it illicit in some person terrible side effects.Once you have taken Accutane the way your DNA is Transcripted and replicated is modified, it is just like you are genetically modified.That's why you don't have acne anymore but bottom line, that's why some experience terrible and devastating side effects.
Now that you know the whole truth about the drug, it is your choice to take it or not.
When I took the drug, I was unfortunately only 21 and I was more preoccupied on how I could get that girl sitting next to me in class going out with me. Like all 21 years old guys I wasn't preoccupied by Retinoic acids and gene transcription (and to be hones those biology courses I was taking were boring). I would have wanted someone to warn me and tell me how Accutane really works. I wouldn't be in such trouble now because knowing the whole truth about the tane, I would have never ever took it.
PS : for those that think that derms know everything about Accutane and that they wouldn't prescribe it if it was a hazardous substance. Wake up, derms aren't biologists or chemist. They aren't some smart brains. The only ability they have is a learning one. They are unable to use logic and mathematic to understand how roaccutane works, go ask them by wich chemical route Accutane is made, they will not answer because they know nothing about the drug. It took me Thousand of pages before starting to understand how the accutane works. Accutane causes side effects that no doctor has ever seen and they can't cure them because they are not like the symptoms they know. Accutane side effects will mimic other disease but the doctors don't know it so they can't cure them. You are warned.
Please if your acne isn't severe and if you don't think about suicide stay away of this drug.
Had some weird formatting issues which I fixed.
Found it here:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/67762-accutane-permanently-genetically-modifies-genes/
I'm new and am glad that there is somewhere (i.e. here) to go to find other people trying to figure out how to undo damage caused by Accutane. However, this thread is a total mess. I think it is so flooded with contradictory information and general quackery that it may not ever be of any actual use to anyone. You could spend months reading all these pages and be left with no clue whatsoever of what to do. Anyone reading this thread will just think that all of us are hypochondriacs.
Can anyone tell me if there are medical experts and scientists working on this problem in an organized fashion anywhere? If not, I fear we are toast.
radio3,
There's no money in solving our problems. The money in researching accutane goes towards discovering the mechanisms for how AMAZING it is for suppressing the symptoms of acne.
This forum full of lay people is the best we have. I feel we've made great progress. This thread is incredibly useful. It won't solve all your answers and present them on a silver platter but it will point in the right directions for where one should spend time researching.
Ideally, we could get our own accutane forum with individual threads devoted to particular topics.
Wasn't someone working on this a while back?