Acne.org Products
Stefan - Im in London, happy to discuss any of this anytime
Joseph - I wasn't aware vit d should only be taken in the morning - what is the rationale/evidence for this? I reckon 99% of the time I took it in the morning anyway, as I always take my supps in the morning when waking.
Dubya - cheers for the pointer on andractim, however tbh I'm very relucatant to take any more pharmaceutical drugs. My Gyno isnt that severe to look at so Im just going to forget about it for the time being, Ive been checked over by an endrinocologist who said everything is more or less ok with the gyno. I'm waiting on another blood test however just to make sure my estrogen is back down for sure. I forgot to mention in my above post Ive been suffering from pretty heavy hair loss as well for the last 2years - this has definently been exacerbated by my T boosting regime.
With regards to the diet changes - I must emphasise for me I only started to see improvement if I very strictly adhered to the diet plans. When i first tried the paleo diet a few years back I still had the odd bit of rice/some gluten free cookies a few times a week (what a dickhead!), and I didnt see much benefit at all. After reading the 'primal blueprint' I gave it another shot and it was only when i existed off meat, veggies and fruit that I saw some sexual improvement.
The same goes for the 'raw' diet - the I did it 100% for 6 weeks before xmas (which is fucking tough) and a couple of times I woke woth morning erections for the first time in 4.5 years. The effects come and go tbh - but the more cooked foods i introduce I have a feeling it limits the effects of the diet - it is very hard to track progess exactly but I do feel the diet has moved me on in all this. My auto immune specialist has now put me on a high raw 80% alkaline diet - basically 60-80% of my diet is from raw food the rest from some cooked vegan food and the odd bit of fish/meat, lots of green juice/smoothies. He has advised me to centre my diet around leafy green veg, eating twice as much veg than fruit.
The high raw (50-80%) diet seems more realistic to stick to long term, Im a skinny chap and going 100% raw makes it very difficult to get all the required calories to enable me to excercise. For me, excecise is very important. The jury is still out for me on whether it can directly help with roaccutane sides, but I find simply doing excercise very theraputic and helps me take out my anger over all of this. It's important to find hobbies/interests throughout all of this to keep you sane, excercise defintently helps me. My social life used to be incredible, but I barely go out now because m whole social life was centred around boozing, thats off the agenda for a while. But in the grand scheme of things, I can deal with not going out and i know I feel better when sitcking with my diet.
So my current regime is:
- High raw diet, juices/smoothies
- 30mg Zinc/2mg Copper per day (for sex drive). Very important to get good quality zinc with copper in it, if not copper will be depleted. - x3 Spirulina tabs (my b12 is a little low)
- As much excecise as I can do
- Meditation
Cheers guys
Joseph - I wasn't aware vit d should only be taken in the morning - what is the rationale/evidence for this? I reckon 99% of the time I took it in the morning anyway, as I always take my supps in the morning when waking.
Seth Roberts found it resets your Circadian. Take it in the morning and it won't shift you late or early. Metabolism will peak around noon.
It's like a big dose of sunlight. Upstream from taking melatonin. Makes you awake during day, sleepy at night.
By the way, I tried canned tuna last Sunday and it flattened me until today. Too much fat, I guess. 2-3%. Only other thing it had in it was water.
But yeah, my diet works, I'm back to normal now.
He said as he burned his tongue on the steamed chicken breast.
People can say what they want about Accutane.
I spent almost a decade treating Acne with topical treatments and oral anti-biotics and for the large part it was all in vain. I still had moderate to serve Acne in my early twenties, then along came a nine-month course of Accutane which totally cleared my skin. It wiped away a decade of shit and changed my life.
However, the Acne did come back after a year but it was a lot milder, and now I am currently on 20mg a day, which I plan to take for only 3 months to put my skin right. Yes the side-effects are harsh and the drug is not entirely safe, but theres nothing else out there like it when it comes to clearing Acne; its the closest thing to a cure.
Having said all this, I wish I never had Acne, totally fucked up my life.
Yes, People can say what they want about Accutane. If you noticed the title is for Long Term Suffers From Accutane, NOT sucess stories! By the way you never know what course will hit you 1st, 2nd or possibly the 3rd, but when it does you'll know....
My story is far from a success and I have problems, too, but I don't think moaning and talking the drug down is the right way to deal with them. I also suggest you change your tone next time you decide on replying to me.
To those who have libido loss :
I took the drug 2 weeks and stopped after and I noticed that as my skin was getting oily again my libido came naturally back.
First, I didn't thought it was related but now I'm quite sure but I'm affraid that these problems will come back.
So there's may be a link between both
When the side-effects vanish do they come back ?
Hello,
I took accutane multiple times in highschool and now I am stuck with severe muscle weakness and stomach problems (mostly reflux). Anyways I am not gonna go on and tell you all negative effects as they are similar to what I have read here, I wanted to ask if anyone has heard about low serotonin levels in the brain caused by accutane? Serotonin is responsible for muscle function , digestion and mood, which seems to relate to all the problems. Muscle weakness could be the cause of joint pain in so many of us. I found 2 forum posts about serotonin, and one person suggested 5-htp and the other person suggested apo-tryptophan.
I tried both and my muscle weakness varied like crazy when i was taking both pills.
Before taking these pills i could barely walk, didn't have a lot of pain but my legs just didn't respond and I had to struggle and put a lot of energy into making my legs move. The pills didn't instantly make me better, but I had some moments where my legs felt like 100% and it made me realize how my legs SHOULD feel, which was kind of scary to know how I've been living until now.
From what I have read I understand that serotonin is responsible for muscle contractions, which could explain the joint problems. Since muscles don't contract properly it puts pressure on the joints, but this is just my theory.
Let me know what you guys think about serotonin and accutane, and if you heard anything about it.
Another new chap!
http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue_related_conditions.asp
Adrenal Fatigue is really fitting the picture for EVERY problem I have, except maybe dry-eyes.
Link above explains that it can cause Serotonin deficiency, and this was also mentioned in the book I'm reading.
I think the adrenals and thyroid are going to be affected by everyone going through these side effects.
They are sensitive to changes, and Accutane can really create a shock to the system.
It'd be interesting to see your results if y'all were tested (with a saliva test) for adrenal fatigue.
I've ordered some adaptogens (such as Ashwagandha and Panax Ginseng) to see if they help me to deal with stresses better.
Lovely day today though, for a change.
Really nice to get outside in the Sunshine.
Now reading The Hunger Games before the film comes out 
Hope everyone is doing alright.
I stand by that you should read the thyroid book I mentioned.
Explains a lot, i.e. why some Accutaner's benefit from Biotin, and why things like B12 and Vitamin D can be deficient.
Might make the situation a lot easier too.
If it just means focusing on healing the adrenals and thyroid.
I'm currently taking things that will help bile production, i.e. Beet root, dandelion and milk thistle, so there's nothing else I can do in that area.
I'm upping my protein intake and will start taking Glutamine to rebuild my stomach (as that's probably an issue).
Ciao.
My current paradigm has narrowed to three things:
1. Stress
2. Intestinal lining
3. Bile
Interesting that you seem to be converging on two of those.
I am now radically restructuring my life and even personality to drop stress to zero. For example, I quit soccer - extended duration of aerobic stress.
And by stress, I mean cortisol. Not stress like anaerobic stress like from weight lifting.
Went to the hospital for the telomere blood test today. 401. Results in 4 weeks.
I notice an improvement in brain fog after I steam room for around 10 mins, if anyone else has triend that. I've been taking the supplement Picamilon somebody here recommended and I am loving that as it seems to help keep anxiety in check while at the same time providing clear mental energy. And I've only been taking 2 in the morning and one in the afternoon and the bottle recommends 3 3x per day. So yeah I love it thank to whoever put it out there as an option.
Anyone read my serotonin theory? Anyone tried 5-htp? read my post from the previous page let me know what you think.
Indigo, its not the adrenal glands, trust me I have been thru that 1 year ago when my doctor discovered my adrenals were weak, worked with tons of doctors and got my adrenal glands working properly without any significant changes. I know the symptoms match "accutane symptoms" (i got exited the first time i found out about this theory), but low serotonin levels causes adrenal fatigue and not the other way around.
Also Indigo you said that B12 seems to help, that is because the body needs B12 to produce serotonin.
Wow, that was a lot of reading.
It is interesting that Joseph feels better after smoking tobacco. Tobacco is an inducer of cytochrome p450, the main family of enzymes responsible for metabolization of retinoic acid. You guys should also read about CYP26, researchers believe this is the precise cytochrome responsible for removing retinoic acid, although the research is still in its early stages. Other inducers of p450 are St. Johns wort and cruciferous vegetables. I'm going to see if eating a lot of these helps at all.
To anyone else who got the constant flaky skin, were you also on antibitoics around the time it started? I was on accutane and then bactrim before my skin started shedding and I'm not sure which to blame.
Anyone tried 5-htp
Yeah, and tryptophan. Nothing beneficial.
The dopamine and noradrenaline pathways seem more important to me.
Tobacco is an inducer of cytochrome p450, the main family of enzymes responsible for metabolization of retinoic acid
Where did you get this info?
On 3/13/2012 at 11:38 AM, rivladoo said:Anyone read my serotonin theory? Anyone tried 5-htp? read my post from the previous page let me know what you think.
Indigo, its not the adrenal glands, trust me I have been thru that 1 year ago when my doctor discovered my adrenals were weak, worked with tons of doctors and got my adrenal glands working properly without any significant changes. I know the symptoms match "accutane symptoms" (i got exited the first time i found out about this theory), but low serotonin levels causes adrenal fatigue and not the other way around.
Also Indigo you said that B12 seems to help, that is because the body needs B12 to produce serotonin.
Could I please ask what treatment plan you followed for your adrenals?
I'm surprised (and disheartened) that getting your adrenals back to working didn't do much.
Did it not improve your energy levels and stuff?
Are you aware of whether you have a thyroid problem too, that may still need fixing?
Did you have to get rid of stress in order to fix your adrenals?
And how long did it take to recover.
It's so difficult to not get stressed by all of this (and by life).
I'm sure you all know stress causes your body to go 'on hold' on it's functions and expects you to run or fight.
This is why exercise is so good. It breaks that pattern, at least temporarily.
I had a crap day at work again, and now I have a headache.
I feel like I've got too much going on - Drama tonight, and I really don't want to go.
I'll feel anxious, because we're doing a prep-performance in front of my tutor's friends.
It's a bright room, and the play is called 'The Audience'.
We have to look at the audience for most of it.
Me, looking people in the eye, in a bright room.
Sure - that won't make me anxious about my eyes being red (jokes).
But I finish that in a week (which is good, because I'm bored of doing the same play over and over... and over).
After next week, I'll start some more badminton on tuesday nights.
Not necessarily because of the health benefits either. I just love it and it helps to get anger out after a shit day sitting next to my bitchy boss.
I watched Woman in Black at the weekend, in the cinema.
SCARY.AS.FUCK.
[Edited video out]
Here's a video for anyone who wants to watch it.
Until next time...
I hate to use wikipedia as a reference again but: http://en.wikipedia....Drug_metabolism
"CYPs are the major enzymes involved in drug metabolism, accounting for about 75% of the total metabolism. Most drugs undergo deactivation by CYPs, either directly or by facilitated excretion from the body. Also, many substances are bioactivated by CYPs to form their active compounds."
...The wikipedia page will give you a pretty good idea of how Cytochrome p450 enymes work.
For tobacco to possibly help with metabolism of retinoic acid the way Joseph mentioned, it would have to stimulate the production of the specific isoforms ("types") of cyp450 that are involved in metabolizing retinoic acid.
Increasing the clearance rate of retinoids would only be beneficial if we are simply having an accutane-induced negative reaction to retinoids or if isotretinoin is still in our systems.
????
For tobacco to possibly help with metabolism of retinoic acid the way Joseph mentioned, it would have to stimulate the production of the specific isoforms ("types") of cyp450 that are involved in metabolizing retinoic acid.
That doesn't appear to be the case though. According to the article CYP26 sub types CYP26A1, CYP26B1, CYP26C1 are the retinoic acid hydroxylases.
However Tobacco smoking induces CYP1A2. Not the same, apparently.
I think it's that smoking tobacco has an anti-depressant effect, not that it cures accutane side effects. At least, that's what I think so far.
Interesting potential lead. I wonder what stimulates the CYP26 subtypes. And whether it even matters a few years afterwards.
Haha, yes, I do not think ciggies will cure you, the reason cytochrome p450 is stimulated is to get rid of the toxic substances in the smoke, the same way cyp26 metabolizes retinoic acid to get rid of it because too much is toxic.
Lukez, from the studies I've read, it is pretty interesting, vitamin A stimulates CYP26. It is our bodies response to excess vitamin A and a way to clear it from our systems. I don't know about taking vitamin A though to stimulate CYP26 because somewhere along the way that mechanism broke down. Also from what I've read, rats (extrapolated to people) vary quite differently to how big of a CYP26 response they have, which would account for how some people have more muted side effects. Another thing that sucks is that most of the research is on how to block CYP26 to increase the effect of chemotheraputic agents like isotretinoin.
I just want my goddamn face to stop peeling
Also one more thing about the guy who ran a lot and felt better, there are multiple studies out there that show aerobic exercise lengthens telomeres
I never said cigs help excrete isotrenionen (sp), I said it helps general detoxification via upregulation of gluthathione. I need that given my excessively low bile production.
I'm not really sold on the concept of accutane remaining in our bodies, so it's not my focus. Not ruling it out either.
Currently just focusing on stress reduction, that is definitely my final frontier. Good results. Learning how to shift my circadian after an episode without inducing more stress. Key is meditation to fall asleep and meal timing.
Thinking about waking up during incorrect sleep cycles to eat, then go back to bed, as a way to speed up circadian shifting.
If you want more about tobacco biochemistry, google "nightlight tobacco cancer forum" (no quotes) and start googling his posts. Like our info, it hasn't been consolidated yet, and most people automatically dismiss it. In his case, he started smoking to deal with mercury poisoning (or some other metal) from his tooth fillings. I started when trying to deal with Accutane side effects, before I knew the cause.
Read it and make your own decision; I'm not arguing the pro-smoking case here, period. I will say this, though: dude is smart. He's some sort of private sector physicist/research scientist. It's not often I run across somebody who makes me think, "Wow, how many standard deviations of IQ above me is that guy?" Always somebody smarter out there, and it's good to be reminded of that.
EDIT: And cigs obviously do not cure me, I never claimed that. They were however the first thing I tried that significantly helped after hundreds of failures, and still one of the greatest positive influences on my life, even after discovering the rest of my personal coping regimine.
Sorry Joseph, I got you confused with gatorwolf6 in my last post 
I use chewing tobacco myself, wish I never would have started though.
It does seem to reduce anxiety a little while I'm chewing, but I chalk that up to being part of the addiction.
Not worth beginning a bad habit to get a mild anti-depressive effect.
Opiates are a antidepressents too, if you want to look at it that way.
It's not often I run across somebody who makes me think, "Wow, how many standard deviations of IQ above me is that guy?" Always somebody smarter out there, and it's good to be reminded of that.
Glad you said this, it reminded me of something/someone. We're most likely going to need people way more educated than any of us to help us get out of this hellhole.
Is everyone here familiar with Max's roaccutane science website?
Please have a look if you haven't already.
Unfortunately, the forum was shit all over by spammers but it is still readable. Wish Max was still active, he seemed like a freaking genius.
Someone told me he is ok, but got burnt-out from dwelling on everything and had to take a break. Anyone know for sure what happened to him?
Have to agree that the idea of accutane still being in our bodies seems a little far-fetched. Actually, IMO it's completely rediculous. That's why we have mechanisms like CYP450 enzymes (BTW, thanks for looking into that Lukez) and glucoronidation http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2870901 , which rid isotretinoin from the body given enough time. (that is, there is no reason to think accutane is in your body years after your last dose even if you are still feeling the effects) If anyone has reason to believe otherwise, then please say so and state why. I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints about this.
@Indigo- I'm pretty sure you previously mentioned having thyroid or adrenal tests that were out of whack, or at least near the outskirts of the reference ranges. Can you post your results and the ranges?
Sorry Joseph, I got you confused with gatorwolf6 in my last post
I use chewing tobacco myself, wish I never would have started though.
It does seem to reduce anxiety a little while I'm chewing, but I chalk that up to being part of the addiction.
Not worth beginning a bad habit to get a mild anti-depressive effect.
Opiates are a antidepressents too, if you want to look at it that way.
It's not often I run across somebody who makes me think, "Wow, how many standard deviations of IQ above me is that guy?" Always somebody smarter out there, and it's good to be reminded of that.Glad you said this, it reminded me of something/someone. We're most likely going to need people way more educated than any of us to help us get out of this hellhole.
Is everyone here familiar with Max's roaccutane science website?
Please have a look if you haven't already.
Unfortunately, the forum was shit all over by spammers but it is still readable. Wish Max was still active, he seemed like a freaking genius.
Someone told me he is ok, but got burnt-out from dwelling on everything and had to take a break. Anyone know for sure what happened to him?
Have to agree that the idea of accutane still being in our bodies seems a little far-fetched. Actually, IMO it's completely rediculous. That's why we have mechanisms like CYP450 enzymes (BTW, thanks for looking into that Lukez) and glucoronidation http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2870901 , which rid isotretinoin from the body given enough time. (that is, there is no reason to think accutane is in your body years after your last dose even if you are still feeling the effects) If anyone has reason to believe otherwise, then please say so and state why. I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints about this.
@Indigo- I'm pretty sure you previously mentioned having thyroid or adrenal tests that were out of whack, or at least near the outskirts of the reference ranges. Can you post your results and the ranges?
Dubya - It was acutally believed and I and others thought he comitted suicide, however in 2009 I think he posted a thread on being Vegan kinda of off the wall post that would sound like him, and then he or someone changed the title and post. He was a big contributer to the old ragfourm. I think some of his posts are still archived I would have to see.
To be honest I think after 2009 post on his board we were confused was he alive or not, however it is a shame about the spammers. Hope everyone is doing well - Jen
Here is the basic outline and an explanation of the site: http://max001.proboa...play&thread=110
By readable I meant that most of the information is contained in the first few posts of each thread. It's easy to find among all the spam posts.
The threads are all pretty much the same:
Max identifies a suspected effect of isotretinoin, posts a study or studies suggesting possible mechanisms behind that effect, then posts references from the studies.
The following few posts are usually pretty sad really. They often consist of people who are bashing him for pointing out things they don't want to hear, people defending accutane, or people just getting upset and overly worried in general about what they just read..
Beyond the first several posts there is just a wall of spam in most of the threads.
Max didn't really respond to much or explain much of anything in layman's terms. It's more like he just published an online scientific reference book about accutane's possible/probable ill effects in the shape of that forum.
It seems like he understood most, if not all of the material posted considering the way the threads are organized. It wasn't just slapped online haphazardly. Must have been a good bit of work too.
Thanks Oli girl, guess we'll never know. Hope he's ok whatever the case may be.
I find @tree1's theory of histimine to be interesting. I just started taking Slippery Elm and it has helped my bowel mvmnts significantly. I also just read a study that talks about how dao is released by mucous membranes in the stomach and slip elm is good for mucous membranes, I highly recommend the herb. Also, I've been doing some oil pulling and it definitely helps my saliva production and coincidentally my gums haven't don't feel as dry lately. I almost hesitate to share my exprience w oil pulling cuz I've only done it 3 times and it just sounds so hokey but I figured what the hell, swishing oil around for a few mins can't hurt, or maybe it can, who knows, but a lot of people seem to be fans. I think I'm going to need grafting anyways, though.
I just started taking Slippery Elm and it has helped my bowel mvmnts significantly.
Could you please elaborate on this?
Apparently my digestive system is so sensitive that it cannot tolerate any pill whatsoever. I just tried taking Liv.52, which has no additives, cellulose capsule, and I'm getting sick from it. I have to find a way to strengthen the lining before I can take any of the pills I want to try. Dammit.