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11 minutes ago, MATT2399 said:@tanedoutwhat was your diet before the test
I was trying to remember this earlier, and should have noted this at the time. Just be stuff like stir frys, sweet and sour with rice, spaghetti bolognese. I don't tend to eat that much meat and often use a meat substitute called Quorn (not sure if it's available out the UK).
the guy on that pfs thread mentions hydrogen sulfide a lot.. its produced in excessive quantity by bad gut bacteria, leading to ROS, gut inflamation, and inhibition of cytochrome oxidase.
The primary mechanism for the toxic action of H2S is direct inhibition of cytochrome oxidase, an enzyme critical for mitochondrial respiration (Khanet al., 1990;Nicholls and Kim, 1982).
CYTOCHROMECOXIDASE: A MITOCHONDRIAL COPPER/HEME METALLOENZYME
Aerobic life depends on cellular copper homeostasis and distribution since this element is a critical component of enzymes involved in primary metabolism (1). Copper ions can undergo unique chemistry due to their ability to adopt distinct redox states, either oxidized [Cu(II)] or reduced [Cu(I)], and they serve as important catalytic cofactors in redox chemistry for proteins that carry out fundamental biological functions. A copper-containing metalloenzyme, mitochondrial cytochromecoxidase (COX), is the final electron acceptor in the mitochondrial electron transport chain and is required for aerobic ATP production.
Hydrogen Sulfide
Alterations of the gut microbiota may have serious consequences for the host health. Overgrown pathogenic bacteria found in the oral cavity and GI tract produce the "toxic gas" hydrogen sulfide (H2S) when they come in contact with heavy metals. H2S, a colorless, flammable and water-soluble gas with the characteristic odor of rotten eggs, has been known for decades because of its toxicity and as an environmental hazard.[77]Inhibition of mitochondrial respiration, more potent than that of cyanide, resulting from blockade of cytochrome c oxidase is the main mechanism of H2S toxicity.[78]
H2S is normally found in the body, which suggests that this molecule could have physiologic relevance. The mucosa of the gut is continuously exposed to H2S generated by sulfate-reducing bacteria.[79]However, too much H2S, produced by the overgrowth of harmful, pathogenic bacteria as occurs during inflammation causes the intestinal epithelial barrier to break down. Increased levels of bacterial H2S stimulate the production of destructive compounds called ROS, which inhibit mitochondrial function directly. An increase in ROS caused by an imbalance between antioxidant defenses and ROS production results in tissue damage and, eventually, cell death. This is a key mechanism for the development of gut infections. Thus, there is evidence that H2S is involved in chronic (long-term) inflammation of the gut.[80]
Dr. Sarah Myhill and colleagues have proposed that CFS is linked to "mitochondria failure".[82]Mitochondria use fuel molecules derived from food to produce energy by oxidative metabolism in the form of adenosine triphosphate or ATP, which when hydrolysed to the disphosphate, ADP, releases energy to produce muscle contractions, nerve impulses and all the energy-consuming processes needed to synthesize all of the complex molecules of the body. ATP recycles approximately every 10 seconds in a healthy individual. However, when mitochondria are impaired the energy they supply will be impaired and so the individually has poor stamina, as in CFS. Also, when a cell is filled with defective mitochondria, it not only becomes deprived of energy (ATP). It can accumulate a backlog of unused fuel molecules (glucose) and oxygen with disastrous effects. If the body is short of ATP, it can make a very small amount directly from glucose by converting it into lactic acid. This is exactly what many individuals with CFS do. They readily switch into anaerobic metabolism.[83]However, this results in serious problems.
The buildup of lactic acid in the blood, called lactic acidosis is associated with muscle pain, heaviness, aching and soreness ("lactic acid burn"), and might actually damage muscle and nerve tissue. People suffering from CFS have difficulty increasing their fitness.[84]Their response to incremental exercise is increased oxidative stress with marked alterations of muscle membrane excitability. Thus, mitochondrial dysfunction results in fatigue and could produce symptoms of CFS.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/732378_6
Copper can contribute to intestinal health in two ways. As an antimicrobial agent, copper can prevent disturbances in the balance of microflora. It can also help the gut respond to infections, injury and inflammation. Copper is involved in protecting cells from free radical damage as a component of superoxide dismutase and copper enhances iron transport as part of ceruloplasmin.[Edited link out]
then this guy mentions his gut bacteria problem.....
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/will-a-low-sulfur-diet-reduce-hydrogen-sulfide-production.13743/
"Anyway, since Proteus mirabilis is a SULFUR-reducing bacteria (along with Campylobacter, Pseudomonas and Salmonella), could Proteus mirabilis be making hydrogen sulfide from the sulfurs in my diet, either in my gut or in my kidneys, where this Proteus mirabilis resides?"
Campylobacter, Pseudomonas and Salmonella these are sulfur reducing bacteria that tie to H2S production
now i just posted that broiler study and what copper does to these .... it reduces them in half !? what a giant fucking web this is.
Is this the link between accutane and IBS and colitis???????
Etiological Role of Sulfate-Reducing Bacteria in the Development of Inflammatory Bowel Diseases and Ulcerative Colitis
FC Hawk, do you advocate all this gut flora talk? Personally, my gut has been largely unaffected. I usually eat what I want when I want. I do think the gut has been affected (especially you 6 monthers), but by affecting the glands responsible for secretion and salivary processes internally. I mean how is 13-cis-ra able to distinguish between one exocrine gland (sebaceous) from another? I don't think it can. I think it atrophied a lot of glands both exocrine and endocrine. This can obviously cause bowel disorders and interrupt many processes.
You guys are probably right, that lactobacillus have been wiped out. But, would adding them to a un-secreting un-salivating dry system help? I don't know.
Hey look, we're in this together.
if one of you guys buys in bulk...colustrum, sauerkraut, whatever, let me know if you'd be willing to ship some to me, I can paypal whatever fees. i want the best quality and a few of you seem to know your stuff.
Actually, don't answer that. I just went back not even 100 pages, and all of this has been covered before. Everything. Some members that only had a handful of posts, yet were sufferers themselves, providing essential insight. This thread should probably be closed at this point. A new site should be created and we should start having new members fill out individual reports on a series of questions pertaining to their treatment. It's about high time we start to build some numbers and start banging on some doors.
7 hours ago, macleod said:FC Hawk, do you advocate all this gut flora talk? Personally, my gut has been largely unaffected. I usually eat what I want when I want. I do think the gut has been affected (especially you 6 monthers), but by affecting the glands responsible for secretion and salivary processes internally. I mean how is 13-cis-ra able to distinguish between one exocrine gland (sebaceous) from another? I don't think it can. I think it atrophied a lot of glands both exocrine and endocrine. This can obviously cause bowel disorders and interrupt many processes.
You guys are probably right, that lactobacillus have been wiped out. But, would adding them to a un-secreting un-salivating dry system help? I don't know.
Hey look, we're in this together.
if one of you guys buys in bulk...colustrum, sauerkraut, whatever, let me know if you'd be willing to ship some to me, I can paypal whatever fees. i want the best quality and a few of you seem to know your stuff.
If you have any inflammation and or immune issues post tane then the gut is in play to at least some degree.
For me this is crucial, i modified my diet alot and dont have any pain in joints or muscles and ED is gone, but my GI system doesnt heal.. (was on tane for 3-4months 40-60mg)
4 hours ago, macleod said:Actually, don't answer that. I just went back not even 100 pages, and all of this has been covered before. Everything. Some members that only had a handful of posts, yet were sufferers themselves, providing essential insight. This thread should probably be closed at this point. A new site should be created and we should start having new members fill out individual reports on a series of questions pertaining to their treatment. It's about high time we start to build some numbers and start banging on some doors.
I mentioned this a good few times but there doesnt seem to be a lot of interest for it.. But we've reached a point where there is no more research to look at.. What more can come of this thread when there is not gonna be any more info on accutane that hasnt been seen before. We can keep trying different things but its not very specific or related to acne.org or accutane directly
5 hours ago, macleod said:Actually, don't answer that. I just went back not even 100 pages, and all of this has been covered before. Everything. Some members that only had a handful of posts, yet were sufferers themselves, providing essential insight. This thread should probably be closed at this point. A new site should be created and we should start having new members fill out individual reports on a series of questions pertaining to their treatment. It's about high time we start to build some numbers and start banging on some doors.
@macleodI agree on the forum, i tried googling through but i never seen anyone recover there e.coli, maybe you can link? Im also not keen on the probiotics, i rather get on the cultured foods there is bacteria for everything even seen today where discovered there is a bacteria that can grow inside us that can take sunlight and convert that into energy instead of food. Maybe arnold ehret had something on our bodies being "air gas engines"
Im still going ahead with having a ton of cultered foods we are 98% bacteria numbers wise, from what i read it controls most of everything, what we eat, think, feel, mood, who we mate with and what friends we have.
I seen you taking methionine in a couple posts. To cure cancer naturally this guy puts his patients on a fruit only diet so the body starves the cancer cells of methionine, fruit has only traces of methionine its the only food, and we are frugivores anatomly speaking. Only healthy cells can survive in this environment. So im going with this diet and with the cells healthy and bacteria healthy theres nothing left to try. Deficiency maybe but with everything correct the body should fill that with what we eat. Unless its not in our food anymore..
one word five letters. R-E-L-A-X.
Align is doing me good. Something is putting moisture back in my eyes. a healthy amount of oil in my skin. my head feels pretty close to normal at times. at this seems it has to do with my environment maybe? ed, well something is also working cause i was just talking to some hot girls and i felt a little rise in my jeans that stayed there for a minute. Singulair might be of benefit for us. (their looking into it atm to reverse brain aging maybe caused by possible inflammation). also still taking copper. I just dont know whats doing what yet with the few supplements im taking.
There are really only a few regulars on here it seems. I dont really see the point in starting over on a new forum. if anyone really found a "cure" really discovered something real about our long term effects, this is probably one of the first forums on the whole internet we would find this information. it has to be the most well known and 1st google listing that comes up at this point.
eventually we will exhaust all our options but we are not there yet.
On 3/5/2016 at 7:43 AM, MATT2399 said:I seen you taking methionine in a couple posts.
No, I bought a bottle of methionine because of people thinking aloud on this thread, jumping from one thing to the next. After researching a bit more it turns out methionine is not something anyone wants in large quantities in their bodies. Also, I researched for many months and came to what I thought was my own hypothesis into the mechanisms of this drug, but it turns out after some more searching, I was brought to a thread from the All Things Male forum where a guy Alan-C had basically word for word everything I thought of, and it was made 3 years prior. So no, I don't see this thread going anywhere new.
[Edited link out]
Post #4 is my stance on the drug. except I think cortisol and the pituitary is what to look at, as well as Vasopressin and the Hypothalamus. Both glands are not functioning properly. The variables are quite significant if those glands are affected.
[Edited link out]
I'm quite amazed at your level of blanket negativity in regard to what we are trying to achieve in this thread. If you believe it is all doom
and gloom and that there is no cure for lasting accutane effects then don't be involved in the thread.
quoted from your guy alanc talking to dubya on your same thread. dont be like this dubya
not saying this is you. but saying i dont see this thread going anywhere new is kind of a selfish comment, and I can see how things get derailed on here and people get discouraged. people have also spent 1000s on supplements and test so you dont have to. lets keep this in mind as well.
your new pic is creeping me out btw. your last one was so much better.
peace and love.
I also think thinking out loud is how we solve this shit. the more brain storming and openness to ideas and communication the better. hell I spent a whole weekend on here once talking to myself lol
Here's my rbc copper. Doctor says it's fine. I suppose in that range it would be considered low though. Not sure why it's so broad.
7 hours ago, macleod said:Dubya is a bit like that. But to our defense we have a combined 2 decades post tane. been on this site for 6+ yrs. irs a free site and thread, have at it. We need change tho.
Im on 9 years nearly 10 years post. Out of all the supplements, minerals some make me feel better others not you soon realize that it's hopeless stabbing in the dark and I gave up ages ago I have spent thousands of to get just mild improvement only to fall flat.
Stop looking to doctors, scientists they don't know how to cure the common cold which once understood (not had a cold or flu for 2 years) it's a damn god job we have not, else we would be suffocated in our own mucus, cancer is a good thing it's body trying to save itself all "diseases" "symptoms" are, we to cure by taking this and that only to end up worse or dead the reason is plain as day we are stopping the body saving itself, through bad diet, environment, drugs. It's only coming to the masses now that it's the treatment without the person changing its habits that is killing people faster then cancer.
It's just different degrees of damage and genetics of what goes down first.
My wisdom tooth where I went ER one page back. I never even took the antibiotics it's went back down itself the first time it's ever done that on that tooth even with water fasting it never would go down this week I have only ate blueberry, blackberries only last couple days and culturelle.
Start getting the body in the correct environment. It will sort itself out it doesn't want to be in this state but it has to be at this point it's trying to save itself by up regulating this and down regulating that. We are trying to stop the symptom but we every time we try we will make it worse.
Get the body strong. Forget the accutane studies it's a dead end were only focusing trying to make connections to this and that not looking at big picture. Yes his stool sample is now good but he treated that by hitting it with the a specific direct probiotic that we have discovered. Think about all the strains we have not a probiotic and a paper saying yes no parasite and you have all the good bacteria. You should be fine according to the stool result. No! It's only what we know about and discovered and can see. The rabbit hole goes too deep
Get the body strong and it will heal itself let's focus on that in this thread and post and share on what each of us are doing to get the cells and bacteria strong, not on treating a symptom we will never do it we will be taking it all the way to the grave taking this pill that pill, only shortening our life by curing each symptom thinking that it's gone is a good thing. Ever thought that maybe the guys who have taken accutane with less symptoms are ones who will die the earliest as the body is not protecting as good as it should. People smoke have caffeine to feel good and not feel bad, yet this is because the body is ridding the body of a poison everything in the body increases only feel bad once stopped. This becomes apparent when you eat raw food for a couple weeks as intended by nature then you eat cooked food mucus forming food man made food, you soon wake up and wonder how are we all still alive it's because having a cold which we try to stop by taking multivitamins mega dosing vitamins and taking toxic herbs we damage ourselves more and instead get the flu, if you won't let yourself down, nature will in the end do it for you and it will be a whole lot worse. You only need to test this by doing a shitty diet drink copious amounts of alcohol I don't know about you guys but my dick then works some but the after effects will soon mount up if no symptoms arise your going to be hitting the end very early. This is real talk. If we didn't have our body making us feel bad with these symptoms I may not be writing or you reading this or maybe we be eating pizza burger having sex with the love of our life with 2 kids only to get cancer in 2 years time because we took accutane and had no symptoms yet thinking we were the lucky ones..
Take a step back and see everything for what it is, this is not a puzzle for us to work out, too many pieces. Let's focus and post on getting strong bacteria, cells.
Diet, bacteria, cells that's all the body is composed of
1 hour ago, MATT23988 said:Take a step back and see everything for what it is, this is not a puzzle for us to work out, too many pieces. Let's focus and post on getting strong bacteria, cells.Diet, bacteria, cells that's all the body is composed of
So try some bacterias pack and show us your results. Last time I tried one from Natures Way but I don't see any progress.
23 minutes ago, Kokodu said:So try some bacterias pack and show us your results. Last time I tried one from Natures Way but I don't see any progress.
10 billion cfu of 2 bacteria strains is nothing compared to the overall, my plan of attack is doing all fruits mostly berries, while eating cultured foods that have been sat and the good bacteria has grown in the pot a good while, maybe an antibiotic like wild oregano to kill all bacteria and start fresh the consume the cultured food, i am still new to this so i am trying to figure this out on getting all the good bacteria strains whatever that is? Use common sense it going to take more then a probiotic of 2 strains to a total of 10 billion to make a difference when our bacteria runs into the trillions upon trillions. Diet plays a big role.
Yes of course i am trying and will continue trying but where i am living the fruit is god damn awful not picked ripe and the amount of bacteria killing chemicals on it counteracts what i am trying to do which is go back to nature with all the dirt which should be on it, maybe some of you live in the tropics where you can get properly grown fruit with everything with it you need??
You have to see that theres nothing else out there, as said we are made up of bacteria and cells nothing else
6 hours ago, koikoi123 said:Here's my rbc copper. Doctor says it's fine. I suppose in that range it would be considered low though. Not sure why it's so broad.
i dont understand that range either...if it ever got below 4, would you still be able to walk to even get tested? what was your FE iron?
i dont understand that range either...if it ever got below 4, would you still be able to walk to even get tested? what was your FE iron?
ok so far...
serum/plasma copper RBC copper ceruloplasmin 24hr copper urine
tryingtohelp .77 (.80-1.75ug/ml) L .48 (.50-1.00ug/ml)L 19.2 (16-31)
Bobbydigital 10.7 (11-22) L .14(.15-.60) L .13 (.24-.94umol/d) L
Koikoi 24 (4-116) 19 (15-30)
need more people
The immune system requires copper to perform several functions, of which little is known about the direct mechanism of action. Animal models and cells in culture have been used to assess copper's role in the immune response. Some of the recent research showed that interleukin 2 is reduced in copper deficiency and is likely the mechanism by which T cell proliferation is reduced. These results were extended to show that even in marginal deficiency, when common indexes of copper are not affected by the diet, the proliferative response and interleukin concentrations are reduced. The number of neutrophils in human peripheral blood is reduced in cases of severe copper deficiency. Not only are they reduced in number, but their ability to generate superoxide anion and kill ingested microorganisms is also reduced in both overt and marginal copper deficiency. This mechanism is not yet understood. Neutrophil-like HL-60 cells accumulate copper as they differentiate into a more mature cell population and this accumulation is not reflected by increases in Cu/Zn superoxide dismutase or cytochrome-c oxidase activities. The identity of copper-binding proteins in this cell type may be useful in learning new functions of copper or assessing copper status. Neutrophils, because they are short-lived and homogeneous cell populations, are predicted to be an effective and valuable tool for assessing nutrient status in human populations.
Alright bacteria boy. Have at it.
Meanwhile, I will be getting a pituitary hormone assay, balancing and correcting levels of all of my glands, and supplementing with Growth Hormone on the side to kick start the repair/rebuild process. The key might be cortisol. To sweat and to create acne again.
well this is good timing. i was just coming back to say im stopping supplementing with copper myself. something has dried the hell out of my hair, its not laying right and natural and also copper seemed to dry my face out and gave me a pain in one of my knees. i think actually singulair was stopping some of the maybe negative sinus effects (thick green, yellow , bloody mucus) that i was getting from taking copper. now im actually a little concerned about the hair thing cause that can always take awhile to work itself back to somewhat normal and hopefully didnt progress any type of receding hair line. but i know i didnt take that much and it was over a short period of time.
i will still be taking align, singulair and nasonex for the moment because i feel im very close to feeling normal at times and looking good.
i only got a few actual supplements left that i want to take a look at and one of them is manganese. i posted a study retinoids induce the manganese sod2 cycle thing( might be why we sweat on and shortly after post accutane but not now) so what happens after the body gets used to this high dose retinoids catalyst and then its just gone?
As a member of the iron/manganesesuperoxide dismutasefamily, this protein transforms toxicsuperoxide, a byproduct of themitochondrial electron transport chain, intohydrogen peroxideand diatomicoxygen.[1]This function allows SOD2 to clear mitochondrialreactive oxygen species(ROS) and, as a result, confer protection against cell death.[3]As a result, this protein plays an antiapoptotic role againstoxidative stress, ionizingradiation, andinflammatorycytokines.[2]
Manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD) is the principalantioxidantenzyme in themitochondria. Because mitochondria consume over 90% of the oxygen used by cells, they are especially vulnerable tooxidative stress. The superoxide radical is one of thereactive oxygen speciesproduced in mitochondria duringATPsynthesis. MnSODcatalyzesthe conversion of superoxide radicals to hydrogen peroxide, which can be reduced to water by other antioxidant enzymes
mainly it comes down to its one of the few left that i dont think anyone has looked at
19 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:well this is good timing. i was just coming back to say im stopping supplementing with copper myself. something has dried the hell out of my hair, its not laying right and natural and also copper seemed to dry my face out and gave me a pain in one of my knees. i think actually singulair was stopping some of the maybe negative sinus effects (thick green, yellow , bloody mucus) that i was getting from taking copper. now im actually a little concerned about the hair thing cause that can always take awhile to work itself back to somewhat normal and hopefully didnt progress any type of receding hair line. but i know i didnt take that much and it was over a short period of time.
i will still be taking align, singulair and nasonex for the moment because i feel im very close to feeling normal at times and looking good.
i only got a few actual supplements left that i want to take a look at and one of them is manganese. i posted a study retinoids induce the manganese sod2 cycle thing( might be why we sweat on and shortly after post accutane but not now) so what happens after the body gets used to this high dose retinoids catalyst and then its just gone?As a member of the iron/manganesesuperoxide dismutasefamily, this protein transforms toxicsuperoxide, a byproduct of themitochondrial electron transport chain, intohydrogen peroxideand diatomicoxygen.[1]This function allows SOD2 to clear mitochondrialreactive oxygen species(ROS) and, as a result, confer protection against cell death.[3]As a result, this protein plays an antiapoptotic role againstoxidative stress, ionizingradiation, andinflammatorycytokines.[2]
Manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD) is the principalantioxidantenzyme in themitochondria. Because mitochondria consume over 90% of the oxygen used by cells, they are especially vulnerable tooxidative stress. The superoxide radical is one of thereactive oxygen speciesproduced in mitochondria duringATPsynthesis. MnSODcatalyzesthe conversion of superoxide radicals to hydrogen peroxide, which can be reduced to water by other antioxidant enzymes
mainly it comes down to its one of the few left that i dont think anyone has looked at
lol go thru my posts.... i posted as hard for manganese and longer( a year ago) as i am for copper now . they are related. and they are also antagonistic. manganese is a cofactor for one of the two ways accutane is metabolized thru glucurondiantion. its calledUDP-glucuronosyltransferase 2B7. I used it for a long time for possible tendons and ligament connections. i still think it will be valuable. helped a bit with some inflammation symptoms. not the cure though.
MANGANESE (Mn) Manganese is called the "maternal mineral" because manganese deficiency in females causes a reduced maternal caring for her young. Mn is necessary for the production of manganese superoxide dismutase, one of the key antioxidants in the body. Enzymes involved in cholesterol synthesis are manganese dependent, so a manganese deficiency can decrease sex drive. Mn is required for normal thyroid and adrenal gland activity. Manganese seems to work with iron and is therefore necessary for proper iron metabolism. Excessive iron or copper supplementation can decrease manganese and excessive manganese can deplete iron and copper. Therefore it is important to supplement manganese (and it's partner chromium) when supplementing iron and copper. |
like your link stated, its a"byproduct of themitochondrial electron transport chain" the actual electron transport chain comes first.
could you find out the exact levels in your ceruloplasim test after a week of supplementation?
A possible explanation is it could get worse before it gets better... the dryness could be a symptom of something being mobilized from the liver. that whole inverse copper/vitamin A relationship. it actually could be a good sign.
So, I know this is nothing new but given that there are several doctors that I know of who treat accutane ED with cortisol. Dr Irwin Goldstein and
Dr Alan Jacobs - Has anyone had this treatment and if not why isn't it an option for you?
I also know it is the choice treatment given to young men with low testoterone.
- Mental and psychological ailments such as depression
- Faintness and dizziness
- Weakness and fatigue
- Heart palpitations
- Emotional hypersensitivity
- Inability to cope with stress
- Social anxiety
- Muscle weakness
- Headache, scalp ache, or general body ache
- Severe or dull lower back pain
- Extremely sensitive skin
- Nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting
- Abdominal pain and hunger pain despite an empty stomach
- Extreme craving for salty foods
- Anxiety and jitters
- Clumsiness and confusion
- Motion sickness
- Insomnia and dark circles under the eyes
- Low bladder capacity and symptoms of IBS
- Irregular or non-existent menstrual period
I know this has probably been discussed at length but as it seems like it is the only treatment likely on offer would like an up-to-date
perspective on this.
9 minutes ago, hatetane said:
21 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:lol go thru my posts.... i posted as hard for manganese and longer( a year ago) as i am for copper now . they are related. and they are also antagonistic. manganese is a cofactor for one of the two ways accutane is metabolized thru glucurondiantion. its calledUDP-glucuronosyltransferase 2B7. I used it for a long time for possible tendons and ligament connections. i still think it will be valuable. helped a bit with some inflammation symptoms. not the cure though.
MANGANESE (Mn)
Manganese is called the "maternal mineral" because manganese deficiency in females causes a reduced maternal caring for her young. Mn is necessary for the production of manganese superoxide dismutase, one of the key antioxidants in the body. Enzymes involved in cholesterol synthesis are manganese dependent, so a manganese deficiency can decrease sex drive. Mn is required for normal thyroid and adrenal gland activity.
Manganese seems to work with iron and is therefore necessary for proper iron metabolism. Excessive iron or copper supplementation can decrease manganese and excessive manganese can deplete iron and copper. Therefore it is important to supplement manganese (and it's partner chromium) when supplementing iron and copper.
like your link stated, its a"byproduct of themitochondrial electron transport chain" the actual electron transport chain comes first.
could you find out the exact levels in your ceruloplasim test after a week of supplementation?
A possible explanation is it could get worse before it gets better... the dryness could be a symptom of something being mobilized from the liver. that whole inverse copper/vitamin A relationship. it actually could be a good sign.
lol well im glad you told me this then so im not messing with this supplement for weeks wondering if its of great benefit. i can say this about copper, the same pain in my knee might be the same pain in the same spot i got when i was taking high dose vitamin a(it could also just be a drying effect similar to vitamin a). im not getting another blood test for this, my doctor already thinks im crazy im going to need to find a new doctor lol.
http://jeffreydachmd.com/clomid-for-low-testosterone-part-one/
Surely one of you at least has had this treatment.
ANY COMMENTS?