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from the vsl website.
VSL#3 acts as a protective barrier in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.link
VSL#3 works by colonizing the GI tract with optimal quantities and types of probiotic bacteria. These bacteria adhere to the walls of the GI tract and form a barrier that protects the inner layer of the gut from pathogens.Pathogensreleasetoxicsubstances that can cause a reduction in the number and type of bacteria in the intestine, which can affect a persons intestinal health.
The human GI tract has thousands of billions of resident bacteria called commensal bacteria. In order to change the composition of this gut flora in a positive way, an extremely large amount of probiotic bacteria is necessary. VSL#3 is the only probiotic preparation that delivers enough bacteria to beneficially affect the gut flora in patients with serious intestinal disorders.
VSL#3 bacteria make it all the way through the GI tract.
Further reading:
Link 1|Link 2|Link 3|Link 4|Link 5|Link 6|Link 7
At the cellular level, VSL#3 positively affects a variety of substances that are involved in gut function. This is important to ensure the correct absorption of nutrients and to maintain barrier function.
Finally, evidence suggests that VSL#3 can reduce intestinal permeability by tightening the junctions between the cells in the outer layer of the intestine which reduces the likelihood of translocation (pathogens moving from the intestine into the blood).
Hi guys,
Newly damaged here ffs.
I was going to post the details but I don't want to derail some seriously interesting stuff (I've been lurking for a few months).
I read through a lot of the solvepfs stuff and it does seem like he's on to something. I know that his references to Hydrogen Sulphide caused by bacterial overgrowth have a lot of weight and make sense. (Not that I'm in a positive mood at the moment, the amount of things I've tried over the past few months because somebody said "try MSM, chondroitin, HA, water fasts, biotin, collagen..........you know the drill......baxyl is in the post).
I assume most of you have been at this point. I'm no scientist, my background is in journalism (although I did carry science into college level, prior to University, so I have a bit of a foundation to work with). My obsession with recovery started 5 weeks after cutting my course short, when my eyes went to hell overnight and a week later, burning and generalised joint pain started to show up. This was back in early November, so you can appreciate that I'm new to all this, but obviously, the worse my side effects become, the further down the rabbit hole I go, and naturally, the further from a full recovery I feel, so here I am, doing all the research I can.
The reason I'm posting is just to add my two cents. There's a lot of crazy stuff in this thread, and I really think it needs organising somewhere that the current strongest theories can be regularly updated. I've looked through this thread, but there are, at present, 343 pages. Now I appreciate those who want to say "well get reading then", and that it's a valid opinion, however, there's a lot of unsubstantiated junk among all of it, inclusive of trolling and petty arguments etc (I've read it). We need somewhere where tangible side effects can be listed, and what people are finding success with in treating them. Hopefully, that way we'll see correlations that are already starting to be established (all the people that are improving mentioning a helathy, clean, diet for instance). Even just a page where we could vote for things from a list of things that could help, and see the results, would be a start.
That aside, there really is some great stuff coming out of here. Really great stuff.
I think that there is some solid direction in this.
I have been researching the ailments that I have on an individual basis, as well as potentially being a direct result of accutane. I don't need to list them, because they're the same as those described on here a million times, although I may be lucky in that I haven't experienced (yet....) any loss of libido or cognitive issues.
What I will say, is that the amount of anecdotal references to diet and the gut points out quite a clear path of research.
Maybe I'm repeating what has already been written, but current scientific studies into celiacs disease is absolutely transforming our understanding of processes that occur within the body. Studies are now happening to identify processes within the gut that could lead to adhd and other disorders. The amount of times in the past few months where I've read about people having autoimmune diseases that they have significantly/or completely recovered from (Rheumatoid arthritis, sjogrens, lupus etc), just by working out what diet works for them, is quite astounding. Of course, early on, I just read past those stories because it seemed far fetched, but now I'm wondering.......
Now, I'm not for a second suggesting that everyone can be cured in the same way. I've seen plenty of people who have tried various diets that haven't worked. But there does seem to be evidence to suggest that there is something in it. There are billions of bacteria in the gut. Even missing out on the bacteria that is provided through a natural birth (by caesarian) can cause a life time of ill health.
Typically, those of us who turn to accutane, have been through a myriad of antibiotic treatments. Our guts are probably an absolute mess before we even get near accutane. Again, I appreciate that this won't be the same for everyone, but then we don't all have identical side effects. It would however make sense as to why some people recover, if they are fortunate enough to have reasonable flora when they start taking the drug, and it is able to recover swiftly. The rest of us, who may have poor flora for a variety of reasons, might be left with a severe overgrowth of bad bacteria, or maybe even just a horrible imbalance. Combine that with the possibility of massive vitamin imbalances and who knows what mess is made. We all freely recognise that a lot of the symptoms that are described here are identical to those of various autoimmune diseases, and that autoimmune diseases themselves are generally, a collection of symptoms, without any full reasoning as to the cause. Science is slowly moving in a direction that is focusing on gut health in its research into these diseases.
The reason behind problems being so widespread may be because it simply depends on what type of bacteria are out of whack. One type could lead to dry eyes, dry mouth, brain fog etc, perhaps through the release of Hydrogen Sulphide, another could cause to a change in the way our guts absorb, leading to osteoporosis etc. A combination could lead to a combination of side effects.
In researching help with my dry eyes, which are truly awful and I wouldn't wish on anyone, one of the first prescribed lines of attack is a tetracycline. Doctors say they don't even know the mechanism of its action in treating dry eyes, only that it appears therapeutic and may have an anti-inflammatory effect.................... I've read about it helping post accutane sufferer's dry eyes, sometimes only so long as they are on the course......what if its mechanism is actually quelling the overgrowth of bacteria in the gut, thus inhibiting the release of whatever toxins they are releasing, only for them to return once the antibiotic stops because of their abundance in the gut, and that extends to some people who have simply developed dry eyes for no apparent reason, maybe the mechanism is the same.
Look, I'm rambling now, but I think this is a good place to put theories, and I really think you guys are on to something here. From all the reading that I've done (and trust me, it's a lot. Chronic pain is highly motivating), one thing that I come back to time and time again, are little clues that this could all be happening in the gut. I read a separate story that very easily mimicked Sheefa's yesterday. After years of research, a guy had a specialist give him the loose diagnosis of "post accutane pain syndrome". If I go back to the start of this post, the reference to what the pfs guys were saying about hydrogen sulfide from gut bacteria, and then do a quick google search of the effects of chronic, low level, exposure, the first thing I came across was a study of two communities who were exposed. I only have access to the abstract but:
The two exposed communities responded very similarly to questions about the major categories. When the authors compared responses of the exposed communities with those of the reference communities, 9 of the 12 symptom categories had iterated odds ratios greater than 3.0. The symptoms related to the central nervous system had the highest iterated odds ratio (i.e., 12.7; 95% confidence interval = 7.59, 22.09), followed by the respiratory category (odds ratio = 11.92; 95% confidence interval = 6.03, 25.72), and the blood category (odds ratio = 8.07; 95% confidence interval = 3.64, 21.18).
Central nervous system issues are the biggest complaint. Maybe this is what those experiencing similar symptoms to Sheefa, are dealing with in a more severe form.
Look, I've written a lot here. Apologies for the big intro post, but my head is swimming. I really wanted to just chuck my own theories into the mix, because they are utterly useless in my own head and the more we contribute, the closer we'll get.
I hope I can be of help going forward.
Cheers,
Dak
No one experiences Increase erections and libido after getting eaten large amount of carbohydrates ?
I Can eat clean for a month without signs of sexual activity , if I eat two pizzas in the evening , or 300-400 grams of pasta in a day , in a few hours I have erections (50-60%) , blood in penis increase, ... I have known this since the damage from accutane , what does it mean ?
Im' skinny, after 3 cycle of accutane and 2 mini cycle for a months, last in 2012, large doses of carbs give me acne and oily skin return..
same things happended with large doses of alcool...
1 hour ago, Ruvik said:No one experiences Increase erections and libido after getting eaten large amount of carbohydrates ?I Can eat clean for a month without signs of sexual activity , if I eat two pizzas in the evening , or 300-400 grams of pasta in a day , in a few hours I have erections (50-60%) , blood in penis increase, ... I have known this since the damage from accutane , what does it mean ?
Im' skinny, after 3 cycle of accutane and 2 mini cycle for a months, last in 2012, large doses of carbs give me acne and oily skin return..
same things happended with large doses of alcool...
yea the shit is weird. i dont have full on ed, but there seems to be alot that effect it both good and bad. for instance most b vitamins for me seem to make ed worse. vitamin e = better but i dont take vitamin e now because it worsens brain fog sometimes it seems. I think it does go back to the gut maybe, so many foods, supplements effect us alot more then they should in various ways.you look at my vsl post it maybe goes back to toxins, bad bacteria escaping in the blood stream. I dont believe people that have the worse ed is permanent, something is suppressing this. just need to figure out why. and forget the good things i said about vitamin b2, it aint it. sometimes it takes awhile to figure out whats, what and I can def say b2 aint it. Im starting to think no one supplement is the cure, multi diff supplements is not the cure. something else is going on that everything ties into.
Dunno if anyone has seen this, but this doctor faced a ton of harrassment from Hoffman La-Roche for his research into accutane. He references how it decreases brain functioning.
This is part of the reason why when we go to doctors and mention accutane that they are hesitant to look into it. Hell comes their way because of potential interference with pharmaceutical $$$.
Dr. Bremner persisted though, and because of his work Roche took their brand of accutane off the shelves.
12 minutes ago, Accustained said:Dunno if anyone has seen this, but this doctor faced a ton of harrassment from Hoffman La-Roche for his research into accutane. He references how it decreases brain functioning.
This is part of the reason why when we go to doctors and mention accutane that they are hesitant to look into it. Hell comes their way because of potential interference with pharmaceutical $$$.
The only chance we have for research to be done is through the number of sufferers out there finding common ground, communicating, and figuring out how to bring doctors together. What exactly we tell these doctors I don't know.
our whole story and accutanes history would seriously make for a very good documentary special that a ton of people would watch (because so many kids and parents are familiar with the drug) on netflix. it would be the next making a murderer
@hatetane Yeah people have tried to drum up some attention to suffers plight - many have reported sides to the manufacturer, NHS, rxisk.org (see link below for reports sides);
http://rxisk.org/drug/1514/isotretinoin/90713/accutane/
Also in early 2014 dual demonstrations outside Roche London HQ and US HQ™s were arranged via this thread and took place. In London Roche ushered everyone in (away from possible media attention) and went on to pretend they knew nothing of the side effects.
@dakiramir Totally agree with the direction of your speculation regarding gut flora as a potential factor or even root cause in these issues! Have you had yours tested yet? The more people that get this done the more we can identify trends, and also you can™t try and tackle the issue if you don™t know what it is specifically. (currently in the process of getting my gut flora/parasites tested this week)
Also its often mentioned that this thread isn™t ideal and need a forum where different things can be categorised better. We should really see if acne.org would create a subform for us as the acne.org attracts a lot of traffic for people searching for information on their issues. Any acne.org mods reading this?! 
@richonline 10mg/day for 30 days
1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:yea the shit is weird. i dont have full on ed, but there seems to be alot that effect it both good and bad. for instance most b vitamins for me seem to make ed worse. vitamin e = better but i dont take vitamin e now because it worsens brain fog sometimes it seems. I think it does go back to the gut maybe, so many foods, supplements effect us alot more then they should in various ways.you look at my vsl post it maybe goes back to toxins, bad bacteria escaping in the blood stream. I dont believe people that have the worse ed is permanent, something is suppressing this. just need to figure out why. and forget the good things i said about vitamin b2, it aint it. sometimes it takes awhile to figure out whats, what and I can def say b2 aint it. Im starting to think no one supplement is the cure, multi diff supplements is not the cure. something else is going on that everything ties into.
what dose and duration of intake to get results from vsl ?? 17 minutes ago, Ruvik said:what dose and duration of intake to get results from vsl ??
That depends what you are using it to tackle. You need to get testing done. What strains of good bacteria are you lacking? Have you got parasites? If so which ones? Just taking a probiotic and hoping for the best isn't likely to yield results. You need to identify the problem, then take appropriate action to resolve. If you don't know what the problem is you don't know what to take and for how long.
Anyone here want to take a look at some parasites I've been getting out since doing enemas more frequently?
Any opinions?
GRAPHIC:
[Edited link out]
According to some experts, these are egg sacs that haven't fully developed into mature worms.
I'm going to be attacking them in the next few months with MMS, argyntian 23, biocidin, and liposomal artemesinin.
15 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:Anyone here want to take a look at some parasites I've been getting out since doing enemas more frequently?
uh what? you want someone to take a look at your what? sorry your whole post just made me feel like im losing my mind a little bit. Think I have though.
So, tomorrow I'm gonna begin supplementing Beta Carotene 25k IU and Methionine 500 mg on top of the Taurine 1.5g, ALA, that I have already been taking for 2 months.
Any objections? Any advice? Anything to add to my stack?
I'll test the waters with 25k vit A and if the first week goes fine, then I will do two, one in the morning and night with a meal like tane.
2 minutes ago, macleod said:So, tomorrow I'm gonna begin supplementing Beta Carotene 25k IU and Methionine 500 mg on top of the Taurine 1.5g, ALA, that I have already been taking for 2 months.
Any objections? Any advice? Anything to add to my stack?
I'll test the waters with 25k vit A and if the first week goes fine, then I will do two, one in the morning and night with a meal like tane.
idk man you know im no expert but i messed around with methionine and felt no positive effects from it only negative ones I think. like my hair got really fly away and dry and my hands got dry. My logic is only one thing at a time if your introducing something new so you know whats what. pretty soon we are going to exhaust all the supplements then I guess we can close the book. for me I do wonder about beta carotene, and or the right form of vitamin a. and probiotics mainly a high dose like vsl for a week until they colonize. and shit after that, that might be about it, when it comes to supplements.
On 2/16/2016 at 8:19 AM, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:Anyone here want to take a look at some parasites I've been getting out since doing enemas more frequently?
Any opinions?GRAPHIC:
[Edited link out]According to some experts, these are egg sacs that haven't fully developed into mature worms.
I'm going to be attacking them in the next few months with MMS, argyntian 23, biocidin, and liposomal artemesinin.
There is no longer any pure form of MMS on the market as of today. I wouldn't waste your money on that. If you like me to elaborate you can pm me.
9 hours ago, Accustained said:Dunno if anyone has seen this, but this doctor faced a ton of harrassment from Hoffman La-Roche for his research into accutane. He references how it decreases brain functioning.
This is part of the reason why when we go to doctors and mention accutane that they are hesitant to look into it. Hell comes their way because of potential interference with pharmaceutical $$$.
Dr. Bremner persisted though, and because of his work Roche took their brand of accutane off the shelves.
Yes, and for any of you that have been around for a long time, or not....Know the hx of Dr. Bremner! Liam Grant from the Roaccutane Action Group hired him to do the studies as his son committed suicide after taking Accutane. I guess I should add that there are images of his study out there and it's effects of the brain.
6 hours ago, guitarman01 said:6 hours ago, macleod said:So, tomorrow I'm gonna begin supplementing Beta Carotene 25k IU and Methionine 500 mg on top of the Taurine 1.5g, ALA, that I have already been taking for 2 months.
Any objections? Any advice? Anything to add to my stack?
I'll test the waters with 25k vit A and if the first week goes fine, then I will do two, one in the morning and night with a meal like tane.
idk man you know im no expert but i messed around with methionine and felt no positive effects from it only negative ones I think. like my hair got really fly away and dry and my hands got dry. My logic is only one thing at a time if your introducing something new so you know whats what.
Cool. I'll just stick to the vit A then. Just try to cure my night blindness at the very least. I'll keep us updated.
6 hours ago, guitarman01 said:6 hours ago, macleod said:
10 minutes ago, macleod said:Cool. I'll just stick to the vit A then. Just try to cure my night blindness at the very least. I'll keep us updated.
Cool. I'll just stick to the vit A then. Just try to cure my night blindness at the very least. I'll keep us updated.
I am only going to warn about taking to much Vit A whether in Beta or Retinol form....Not a good Ideal... When on Accutane my night vision was great...till this day since sucks. I know we are all made up of different DNA, butI can saya lot of foods or vitamins with Ais toxic for me and others.
Ohby the way mynight vision horrible yet after Accutane my retinol blood levels were high! be careful!!!! So in short while on the drug night vision great shortly after horrible yet high retinol levels in the blood lol!
I'm just going off of the few medical journals that suggest isotretinoin wreaks havoc to those with a lack of Vit A or have an inherent malabsorption of vit A, which Isotretinoin exacerbates. The doctors stop treatment immediately and usually begin to supplement with Vit A.
On 14 February 2016 at 2:07 AM, pabpab said:Not vegeterian. Finished after 1,5 y and sadly no improvement. Still eating extremely cleanly. (lots of herring, beef, eggs + potatoes,millet + greens, spinach, broccoli, kale, salads etc. together with each meal)As for supplements - im coached by a top level specialist and for the first time ever im having decent results. Creatine + my water retention problems...not the best idea I guess.
I see this vit. A thing being discussed here. My 2 cents are that if I eat a say 300g of liver (33000 IU of vit. A) and 400g of (37000 IU of vit A) or drink some carrot juice I feel - like always- nothing special.
Im supplementing vit. D, was tested v. low last october. Used to take 8000iu now taking 10000.My highest dosages were 500,000iu for 3 days in a row, but I can't recommend that, though at the same time I don't regret it.
What happened?
I got mild acute toxicity, and so got sunburnt more easily, less oil production, and lost some aerobic capacity for about 5 weeks.Previous posts go into more detail.
a quick rundown of how fat soluable vitamins work from my experience.
vitamin a is antagonistic to both Eand D,While vitamin K in antagonistic to E, and moderates D, so vitamin D toxicity nearly always occurs only when there is a vitamin K deficiency. So have D and E to make sure you don't get vitamin A toxicity, which I didn't, and have vitamin K to make sure your vitamin D levels are perfect, because otherwise they might get depleted from vitamin E. Risk of vitamin poisening is low when vitamin a intake is <100,000iu and supplementing the other vitamins
On 2/16/2016 at 9:49 AM, oli girl said:On 2/16/2016 at 6:19 AM, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:Anyone here want to take a look at some parasites I've been getting out since doing enemas more frequently?
Any opinions?GRAPHIC:
[Edited link out]According to some experts, these are egg sacs that haven't fully developed into mature worms.
I'm going to be attacking them in the next few months with MMS, argyntian 23, biocidin, and liposomal artemesinin.
There is no longer any pure form of MMS on the market as of today. I wouldn't waste your money on that. If you like me to elaborate you can pm me.
I'd rather keep the conversation about MMS public as it may help others.
What about the recommended online stores as recommended by Jim Humble?
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For those interested in more information:
Great documentary:
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Video overview with Red Cross video:
[Edited link out]
On 2/16/2016 at 9:43 PM, macleod said:
@macleod@oli girlOli girl, sorry to be saying the opposite as you but my intracellular blood tests via spectracell showed retinol deficiency post-accutanetreatment.
And macleod, I cured my night vision by eating liver weekly. About a pound a week. However, be aware that my health is not good at the moment. Though, I never got worse from what I noticed. I would HIGHLY advise against taking any supplemental vit A or carotene. It MUST come from healthy animals so your body can recognize it. This is the safest way.
@guitarman01I want people to look at my parasites to become aware of them. I think I got them from having lowered immunity due to taking accutane. The parasites are encased in oxalates. It's possible that they are producing the oxalates and that is why I am LOADED with them. My body hurts everywhere. Btw, oxalates are the stuff that makes up kidney stones. Yes, I have them throughout my entire body. It's like little shards of glass deposited in my soft tissues, joints, muscles, tendons, skin, fascia, etc..
----
How common is thick blood and/or sluggish blood flow in accutanevictims? Is this something we all struggle with or is it more related to my other potential root causes (like Lyme disease). I'd be curious to know who here also struggles with hypercoagulation. I just ordered lumbrokinase (Boluoke) to thin my blood.
i just wonder if our decreased night vision/blurry day vision light sensitivity is more so due to chronic inflammation and dryness then vitamin a deficiency.
but idk i think i did notice a improvement in night vision while taking vitamin a , but also increased light sensitivity during the daytime? maybe we need just enough but not too much on a daily basis? maybe because we can no longer properly store vitamin a, but if we take too much our bodies get flooded pretty quickly
but idk i think i did notice a improvement in night vision while taking vitamin a , but also increased light sensitivity during the daytime? maybe we need just enough but not too much on a daily basis? maybe because we can no longer properly store vitamin a, but if we take too much our bodies get flooded pretty quickly
if thought of this way it would be like a b vitamin where your just aiming to get 100% daily, nothing more nothing less.
now that i think about it, when i was taking vitamin a, i dont think it had a lasting effect on my night vision that would carry over for days. I think I only noticed improved night vision the days I actually took the vitamin a supplement?
i might have to look into this again in the near future.
but then again the toxic effects i felt were/are pretty lasting.