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Hello,
Ive been following thus thread since mid 2013, I have been suffering from Accutane side effects like the rest of you. I feel I have a grasp on what most people have tried on this forum because Ive been following it and trying things myself. I personally feel it is not a detox issue as I have done many fasts, water and dry fasts of long and short lengths. Essentially I just wondering if anyone has tried Vitamin a sups. I know its been discussed here but I haven't seen many people try it. I know FCHawk was doing it and did a massive dose mid December 2015 then decided to stop. Im more curious about a maintenance dose of say 10,000-30,000 IU of Retinyl Palmitate. 2 days ago I started Dry A from Solar ray which has 25,000 IU of vitamin A (15,000 - Beta Carotene 10,000- Retinyl Palmitate). I plan on taking 1 am and 1 pm. Also currently taking a Balanced B Complex from MegaFood and 10,000 IU Biotin on top of that, Udos Oil as well as Sunflower Lecithin, take atleast one of those each day, Liver regeneration supp, kelp, 10mg zinc with copper. Mostly raw diet. Also taking Betaine Hcl, trying to get some stomach acid production as I personally feel the fat malabsorption thing is more of a lack of stomach acid than a lack of bile because bile is stimulated by the release of acidic chyme into the first part of the small intestine. Gave up on doctors many years ago like most of you. I don't think my issue is vitamin d as I have gotten my level to a good range for the past year. Only diagnosis I ever got was SIBO -- Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. Mainly symptoms - scalp is dry as balls (only shower 2 times a week to try and save the oil I do produce), massive hair loss, white tongue, other ones but mainly concerned with my scalp and hair.
I have also done liver flushes no fun and no real results (although I think my lack of stomach acid was preventing real absorption of the fat).
Done many many many coffee enemas.
I do probiotic retention enemas every few days.
Mainly curious about the vitamin a tho, just felt I should share some background info.
If anyone could share their experience or lack of experience with Vitamin A. Also curious what you all think of when taking vitamin a if symptoms might get worse temporarily as the actuate is released. I have read studies recently that you can find on google that says Beta Carotene is antagonistic to retinoid acid receptors.
4 hours ago, manalesenicola said:does someone here take choline? I don't can get SAMe only methionine is this ok?
i dont think so according to one theory the problem could be in converting the methionine to sam-e. I tried straight methionine myself and noticed no positive effects and possible negative ones.
1 hour ago, JustSayinn said:Hello,
Ive been following thus thread since mid 2013, I have been suffering from Accutane side effects like the rest of you. I feel I have a grasp on what most people have tried on this forum because Ive been following it and trying things myself. I personally feel it is not a detox issue as I have done many fasts, water and dry fasts of long and short lengths. Essentially I just wondering if anyone has tried Vitamin a sups. I know its been discussed here but I haven't seen many people try it. I know FCHawk was doing it and did a massive dose mid December 2015 then decided to stop. Im more curious about a maintenance dose of say 10,000-30,000 IU of Retinyl Palmitate. 2 days ago I started Dry A from Solar ray which has 25,000 IU of vitamin A (15,000 - Beta Carotene 10,000- Retinyl Palmitate). I plan on taking 1 am and 1 pm. Also currently taking a Balanced B Complex from MegaFood and 10,000 IU Biotin on top of that, Udos Oil as well as Sunflower Lecithin, take atleast one of those each day, Liver regeneration supp, kelp, 10mg zinc with copper. Mostly raw diet. Also taking Betaine Hcl, trying to get some stomach acid production as I personally feel the fat malabsorption thing is more of a lack of stomach acid than a lack of bile because bile is stimulated by the release of acidic chyme into the first part of the small intestine. Gave up on doctors many years ago like most of you. I don't think my issue is vitamin d as I have gotten my level to a good range for the past year. Only diagnosis I ever got was SIBO -- Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. Mainly symptoms - scalp is dry as balls (only shower 2 times a week to try and save the oil I do produce), massive hair loss, white tongue, other ones but mainly concerned with my scalp and hair.
I have also done liver flushes no fun and no real results (although I think my lack of stomach acid was preventing real absorption of the fat).
Done many many many coffee enemas.
I do probiotic retention enemas every few days.Mainly curious about the vitamin a tho, just felt I should share some background info.
If anyone could share their experience or lack of experience with Vitamin A. Also curious what you all think of when taking vitamin a if symptoms might get worse temporarily as the actuate is released. I have read studies recently that you can find on google that says Beta Carotene is antagonistic to retinoid acid receptors.
i dont think vitamin a is the answer my friend. and your dosage seems high.if you were gona try any vitamin a i would make it a more natural source like fish liver oil and keep it at 10,000 iu and under and see how you respond. but i wouldnt recommend it. i developed eye floaters and extra fine lines on my hands that havent gone away since and this was years ago from supplementing higher doses of vitamin a. and periods of hyper excitabilty,rage and depression. shit if you look at amazon reviews some people get signs of vitamin a toxicty from 25kiu pills that didnt even take accutane.
also I think the biotin has a drying effect on us, i know it did on me
and also I think our mucus membranes might be inflamed/compromised so i dont know if id recommend the hci either this could do some damage or give you reflux. just my opinions though
5 hours ago, guitarman01 said:k nasal steroid aint it lol. this shit bloated my face a little bit. So no one listen to this guyBut im still feeling pretty good about vitamin b2 im taking 800mgs a day divided by 2
acutally going to retract this statment. one day off the nasal steroid and my brain got foggy as hell at work, didnt feel like i was well balanced when walking, ears got red, felt more mucus production in my sinuses and i just didnt feel as cool or confident.
So I think we def have some kind of inflammation that is causing the brain fog and possible fatigue and mood. but where is it coming from?
straight up allergies or something else? (nasal steroids also treat non -allergic inflammation)
again one of the first side effects i noticed post accutane was facial flushing, that nasonex seems to calm that down after using for awhile. So am I hyper sensitive to allergies post tane? or something else? maybe even some kind of reflux?
side note was reading about someone that had a vitamin c injection and they said they woke up the next day with the clearest vision of their life.
I know alot of us have eye problems
1 hour ago, JustSayinn said:I have read studies recently that you can find on google that says Beta Carotene is antagonistic to retinoid acid receptors.
you should find those studies and link them i'd be curious to take a look
Dear Amanda:
My hair loss started after Accutane. I think the company that make Accutane would be far more qualified than me in answering this question!
You think it might be a vitamin/mineral deficiencies, but most problems I found was a vitamin A toxicity. Since the active ingredient of Accutane product is a a modified form of Vitamin A, which is have a tendency to cause hair loss by causing the dryness of your entire system, not just your skin.
So if I follow the leads, then the product is basically a vasoconstrictor drug. The cure is obvious, vasodilation. Vasodilation is based on your body's ability to produce nitric oxide, which is basically the stuff we do in chemistry lab by reacting copper in a nitric acid solution. Of course that is toxic.
However, you can take vitamin C, sodium ascorbate, and plenty of it! This will do the alkalizing, which expands the capillaries and at the same time increase your body's nitric oxide production indirectly.
@guitarman01 first i appreciate your response, although I still feel different than you do. The vitamin a in fish liver oil isretinoid acid aka the most toxic forum ofvitamin a. It might come form a natural source butretinoid acid is more toxic thanretinyl palmitate and beta carotene is nontoxic. Secondly, the side effect must have something to do with a vitamin a deficiency of some type because some people experience night blindness which in medical lit is hands down a vitamin a deficiency. It is possible that your eye floaters from vitamin a supp post actuate was from the body kicking out the retinoic acid that is toxic and it is reactivating different receptors throughout the body as it leaves, I think in detox terms this is called retracing or a healing crisis. Regarding the study about beta carotene here it is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22418437
My friend is in his 2nd year of medical school for biomedical engineering and said it is possible that if that study is correct that vitamin a supp can cause symptoms to heighten or new ones to form as the retinoic acid is displaced from the receptor sight and settles into new ones or is excreted.
Guitar man what do you recommend one should do in my position if what I am doing is incorrect? I hope my tone isnt coming off as stuck up because if we were face to face you would see I am being sincere and just want to get to the bottom of this. I am bad at conveying my tone over the internet.
Also, My skin did become extremely oily again when I did the GAPS Diet when my side effects first started. I was having tons of egg yolks, organic animal fats and bone broths. Egg yolks are very high in vitamin a and the animals fats are high with fat soluble vitamins. Im not sure why my skin became oily but it did give me hope that my skin can get better. I was smoking weed then and noticed weed makes my symptoms way way worse so I have stopped 2 months ago and am considering the gaps diet again to see if the effects of oily skin are duplicated.
Another factor is many people post actuate experience hypothyroid type symptoms but blood work comes back normal. Well come to find out vitamin a is extremely important in thyroid function so a deficiency could cause thyroid symptoms.
Thanks again for the reply guitar man
i posted a study not too long ago where beta carotene was used along with vitamin e,c gamma linoleic acid,q10 and grape seed extract was used to combat accutane side effects
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25068233
vitamin a did make my night vision.better there is no doubt about that.but at the same time made my eyes very sensitive to light. what i supplemented was actually retinyl palmitate on two different occasions. the first time it gave me the additional hand wrinkles or fine lines. the second time it gave me eye floaters. and i think i was just quicker to get angry on both occasions which is never a good think.
about beta carotene, im not sure if anyone has tried that in higher doses in an attempt to possibly displace accutane
i remember him. unfortunately he went on to talk about a slew of other things and possible treatments after making that post.all you can do is try and see how you respond I would image it is safer then straight vitamin a. but I think people still had problems with beta carotene, and to be honest if that was the solution I think we would have known by now. I would start at a smaller dose of course.but i do wonder how high a dose people have tried. you'll know though if the effect is good or bad. and if its bad you just dont know if your doing more harm then good
i also recommended the fish liver oil as a more natural source of vitamin a, as me and some other people have had side effects from palmitate
an amazon reviewer also said he had sides from palmitate that he didnt get from fish liver oil.
but either way they are all retinoids, so yea not sure if that is the route to go. other people have had similar ideas
DOES ACCUTANE HAVE ANTIBIOTIC TYPE PROPERTIES? 2013 STUDY
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/23544848/Nanocolloidal-carriers-of-isotretinoin:-antimicrobial-activity-against-Propionibacterium-acnes-and-d
if this was the case would treatment with high dose probiotics be the answer?
thinking vsl
Riboflavin (vitamin B2) is manufactured in the body by the intestinal flora
just one example
Maybe although if probiotics would help id say Elixa over VSL for sure. Im starting to think it just messed up our guts and that we need to fix that. for example i have sibo and it came from my accutane use for sure. But silo is kind of hard to fix... Im starting the gaps diet again to heal my gut so we shall see. guitar man you took accutane as well right? Its nice speaking to you haha feel kind of lonely dealing with this and having no one who understands how shitty it is to try and deal with.
yea man i took accutane when i was way too young. before the internet even lol. how did you get diagnosed with sibo? they call the gut your second brain. so who knows but its something else to look at
I would in NO WAY take any type of fish liver oil or as they call it cod liver oil. Many Many Accutane suffers tried this going back 20 yrs ago or so and sure you feel great at first and then all hell breaks loose. I strongly caution it! Also, I know a lot of us suffers can't even handle beta, though I sure a lot safer.
Justsayinn - Have you treated your SIBO? Different ailments and diseases can cause this also.
Hope everyone is well!
They diagnose sibo with a hydrogen breathing test. You have to take it at a hospital. they make you drink a sugar drink then have you breath into a machine every 15 minutes to determine if your gut bacteria is producing a certain chemical thus indicating that bacteria has settled in you upper SI. Before the internet?! You've been dealing with this forever Im sorry to hear that. But where there is a will there is a way and we will find it and one day look back at these forums and think wow how crazy what we all went through. I refuse to believe actuate caused irreversible damage, the body is way to powerful to be beaten down permently like that. Also some people only took it for like 7 days and to this day years later still have side effects so whatever it caused it was fast and dramatic. Maybe another sign of a gut flora imbalance as the main issue? Since like you said the gut is the second brain and there are tons of studies about the gut brain connection.
OliGirl - I have not successfully. I am thinking tho that I need to shift my focus from accutane to healing the sibo. I know that low stomach acid and possibly a minor thyroid problem might be the cause, for sure low stomach acid. The only thing I know is since accutane the only thing that has caused my skin to produce oil again was the gaps diet many years ago.
15 hours ago, oli girl said:Justsayinn - Have you treated your SIBO? Different ailments and diseases can cause this also.
lets not rule out accutane as a cause yet. They say IBS and SIBO are closely related and we know accutane can cause that. who else has gotten a hydrogen breath test?
from reading on webmd this can go undiagnosed for years. treatment would be with antibiotics and or probiotics.
i've had a yellow coating on my tongue for years that has only gotten worse. I mentioned and showed this to my ent doctor and he actually recommended probiotics twice a day. He thought it was maybe a bacterial imbalance.
this all could make sense for alot of our symptoms as well.
On 1/30/2016 at 9:21 PM, tryingtohelp2014 said:Serum B12 400 range (200-1200)
waiting on methylmalonic test results.
"For some reason i can only write in this quote box. But anyhow: My b12 is 1000 on the same dose you take, do you actually leave the b12 in your mouth for 45min?" - Relentless1k
17 hours ago, guitarman01 said:yea man i took accutane when i was way too young. before the internet even lol. how did you get diagnosed with sibo? they call the gut your second brain. so who knows but its something else to look at
There's a big link between gut health and methylation cycle, quick google and you get all sorts on the subject
http://www.beyondmthfr.com/the-gut-origin-of-methylation-problems/
I see over on propeciahelp someone has posted in that thread discussing the 2 people who've made full recoveries from antibiotics, and they've said they've also recovered using herbal supplements;
I recovered from PFS in march 2012 from the following regime
5000mg goldenseal - referred to as 'natures antibiotic'
400mg oregano oil - anti-viral, anti-bacterial properties
1500mg neem -antiseptic, antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral
1500mg allicin -antiseptic, antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10897&start=20
I think it's important to point out that just probiotics in general won't necessarily help, you need take the right sort depending on the issues you have. I've been taking some for over 6 months, but they're not the more pharmaceutical grade sorts like VSL 3 and Prescript Assist etc.
People need to consider gut microbiology and parasitology tests, then if there are issues tackle these using specific methods, rather than just a stable in the dark with a random selection of probiotics and antibiotics and a bit of hope.
I'm hoping to get this testing carried out in the next couple of weeks, so will be interesting to see the results.
It is becoming ever more apparent that who and what lives in our gut has a huge influence on our methylation cycle.The compounds that come from the microorganisms in the gut are known to influence our brain chemistry, hormones, blood sugar, sleep cycle, and much more.
well if some of us actually had sibo. according to webmd treatment normally consist of a short course of broad spectrum antibiotics and a probiotic at the same time and then continued after treatment to keep sibo from coming back. im sure there are studies to look at as to which probiotic at what dose would be effective. or you just blast it with something as potent as vsl#3. I got some align,culturelle,now and this probiotic called pro15 off of amazon laying around the house. im gona take the pro15 for abit. it is different in the patents it has that allows the pill to get real deep in the system still intact and its time released.they say their 5 billion equals 75 billion of the other brands.I looked up the supply company and its legit they have been working on this shit since the 90s.probiotics are still a fairly new thing. I would like to get a hydrogen breath test but im getting sick of doctor visits and false test and missing work. but I just might to at least check things off the list
2 hours ago, tanedout said:I think it's important to point out that just probiotics in general won't necessarily help, you need take the right sort depending on the issues you have. I've been taking some for over 6 months, but they're not the more pharmaceutical grade sorts like VSL 3 and Prescript Assist etc.
what probiotic do you take ? how many strains and potency?
6 hours ago, guitarman01 said:lets not rule out accutane as a cause yet. They say IBS and SIBO are closely related and we know accutane can cause that. who else has gotten a hydrogen breath test?
from reading on webmd this can go undiagnosed for years. treatment would be with antibiotics and or probiotics.
i've had a yellow coating on my tongue for years that has only gotten worse. I mentioned and showed this to my ent doctor and he actually recommended probiotics twice a day. He thought it was maybe a bacterial imbalance.
this all could make sense for alot of our symptoms as well.
I wasn't saying Accutane didn't cause SIBO, Accutane causes a host of problems, in which can also result in SIBO. I developed type 1 diabetes (autoimmune) thanks to Accutane, Diabetics are known to have issues with SIBO. That's the only point I was trying to point out 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2133.1982.tb00410.x/abstract
Accutanes effect on bacteria. there is an effect. how far reaching, meaning the gut. not sure. but looking in this direction now
20 minutes ago, oli girl said:I wasn't saying Accutane didn't cause SIBO, Accutane causes a host of problems, in which can also result in SIBO. I developed type 1 diabetes (autoimmune) thanks to Accutane, Diabetics are known to have issues with SIBO. That's the only point I was trying to point out
love you btw