yea I go back and forth on the vitamin a thing as well its like we need it but we dont. i read or posted a study that it actually raises seratonin in the brain but messes up seratonin pathways at the same time. It did help give me better night vision but gave me eye floaters as well that ive been stuck with for years now. I think the quality of my hair actually got a bit better for awhile, then one day I woke up and I was so dried out from inside out. It also gave me pain in my left knee. this shit is maddening

i notice a boost in my mood shortly after taking vitamin c also less dry eyes and skin.
i just bought some sodium type vitamin C the same kind they use for injections, because i read its easier to take at higher dose at helps absorb the c and non acidic or buffered. im going to hover around 10g plus a day and see if that goes anywhere. I know of libosome vitamin c but its very expensive and maybe the actual amount would make a bigger difference then the type.

On 1/31/2016 at 7:33 PM, TrueJustice said:

Thanks for the info here. Is the Tianeptine something you can take long term? I'm always a bit worried about taking mood enhancement stuff for short periods of time.

Tianeptine is very very mild. It's what one should try before taking the mega nuke ssri's that the doctors love to hand out like candy (such a perverse industry). I would not be intimated by tianpetine if I were you. Obviously everyone is different but I've read of dopers doing huge amounts of it with little negative effects. They posted on the forums that one should be cautious as far as long term usage though, to avoid addiction to it. I however just did the normal 12mcg scoop, sometimes 30mcg throughout the day. And to be honest, the post accutane brain fog helps one not become so dependent on stimulants because we hardly feel anything. But really, no noticeable difference after a month except for, and it might be a coincidence, or me adapting, and accepting the depression side effect, but I'll go out in public and have slim to none anxiety now to the point were I can tell if a normal person is nervous by just engaging in conversation with them. Some progress but still not back to the original me.

On 1/31/2016 at 12:34 AM, tanedout said:

@koikoi123- thanks for posting up your results! I've read about copper toxicity a number of times regarding people suffering from 'tane sides, but also people who have/are prone to acne seem to often have high copper levels, but probably not that high. Looking at the symptoms of excessive copper levels they certainly tie in with many of the issues people are suffering from, specifically those related to 'brain fog' and neurological sides.

Issues with methylation is probably the root cause of our copper toxicity (assuming most/all tane suffers have this). Apparently chapter 2 in this book gives a very good detailed description of methylation (the book is actually on autism, but chapter 2 covers methylation in detail);

[Edited link out]

Great that you got testing done though. I really think people would be better spending their money on testing like this rather than rushing out buying a load of supplements all the time.

It seems a copper toxicity stunts methylation processes. At the same time when I take a bio-available zinc supplement my energy levels literally pick up like they haven't done in 4 or so years (since I took my course of accutane). Probably not the answer for everyone but this is the path I'm venturing down and will keep anyone interested updated on this forum throughout the course of it.

The aim of this nutritional balancing is to bring the body to a balance instead of just introducing supplements here and there and hoping that they work. I am using an Australian practitioner now who is listed on Dr. L. WIlson's website, a man who is a wealth of knowledge in terms of balancing the body. I beleive this is the way forward and while it might seem like quackery, after listening to his dedication on YouTube videos and reading articles on his website you really have to give the guy credit for bringing an straightforward approach to this side of healing. Ive found a lot of holistic practitioners out there are just some sort of health conscious hippy type who care not for taking an objective approach to normal medicine, rather they semi-believe in what they are doing.

Anyway, seeing as my practitioner has jumped straight into methylation, it would seem he's got the right idea at least.

On 2016-01-30 at 10:53 AM, koikoi123 said:

Has anyone made any solid progress going down the methylation pathway?

I've just contacted a practitioner who specialises in mineral analysis, have had a test done and it seems I am incredibly high in copper.

He has suggested detoxing this out through zinc and a few other supplements and at the same time working on methlaytion pathways using a supplement called TMG.

My guess is that for each of us who has suffered from accutane we have each had undermethylation as a genetic fault.

This prevented our livers from being able to detox the accutane properly. And previously why we had such bad skin as our livers could not detox anything properly hence the acne.

From there I believe the accutane stored in the liver caused a estrogen dominance which concurrently increased copper.

Copper is known to causes a whole bunch of symptoms, including what I awoke to this morning bleeding gums. This was a result of the antagonistic effect it has on vitamin c, resulting in some form of scurvy in my case. ( my diet as of late has been shocking and I have not had a nutritious meal in quite a few days, at least not what I should be having as I am constantly so depleted. ) 
                      - I have multiple symtpoms here that link up to copper toxicity and a general vitamin / mineral deficiency but what ever.

This copper toxicity coupled with a still poor methlaytion cycle is what I beleive is causing all these problems in us.

I havent read this thread in a long time, only the last few pages but who has done what in terms of methylation and perhaps copper/hair mineral analysis?

Here are my results btw
.

I'm SO happy to find your post koikoi123! I have tried A LOT of things to get my health and my hormonal balance back after taking accutane in 2009. And the ONLY thing which have shown ANY kind of progress is - HAIR ANALYSIS and NUTRITIONAL BALANCING! That is why I am so excited to see that your hair test looks a lot like mine, perhaps you even have a somewhat better starting point than me with higher macrominerals (Ca, Mg, Na, K). The main issues for both of us seem to be:
 

• COPPER TOXICITY! or better called copper IMBALANCE (because we also have something called bio-unavailable copper, which simply means our bodies can't use the copper, giving symptoms of copper deficiency at the same time as toxicity... fun, huh?!)
• a low NA/K-ratio (the vitality ratio) meaning WEAK adrenals and overall a low vitality of the body
• other ratios screwed up secondary because of the copper imbalance
  • Ca/Mg (the blood sugar ratio) - low blood sugar used to be a MAJOR issue for me - this was one of the first symptoms to completely DISSAPPEAR when starting the nutritional balancing program!
  • Ca/K-ratio (the thyroid ratio) - resulting in a malfunctioning thyroid gland even though blood test results could be normal
  • Na/Mg-ratio (the adrenal ratio)

I have been on the nutritional balancing program for 18 months and I am definitely seeing results! My hair tests have shown progress every time I have re-tested and I am CONVINCED this is by far the best and safest way to heal the body, because not only does it focus on copper but on the body as a WHOLE.

Looking forward to share my progress with you guys and I hope I can inspire someone else to try this!

Here is my first hair analysis:

this sounds a little different and I know I pregame everything, but what about a nasal steroid specifically nasonex as my dr said its spose to be the strongest. Takes some time to build up in the system, but after a week or so seems to help with brain fog ,energy, fatigue, dry eyes, dry skin, dry hair. this spray even though its used in the nose I can feel it going to work on my gut messed up my shits at first and it gives me a real slim stomach. Also makes me feel more potent sexually in various ways. I know one of the rare side effects is acne from this spray. but I wonder if this is just the right steroid in just the right amount that is helpful for our post tane bodies. Idk but ill let you know if continued success because ive used it off and on for less then a month. I was thinking it was these other supplements helping me and I'd quit the spray but maybe it was the spray all along.

and also if you look at  http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin
this vitamin is involved in alot of processes 
 

Oxidation-reduction (redox) reactions

Living organisms derive most of their energy from redox reactions, which are processes that involve the transfer of electrons. Flavocoenzymes participate in redox reactions in numerous metabolic pathways (3). They are critical for the metabolism ofcarbohydrates, lipids, and proteins. FAD is part of the electron transport (respiratory) chain, which is central to energy production. In conjunction with cytochrome P-450, flavocoenzymes also participate in the metabolism of drugs and toxins

Glutathione reductase is an FAD-dependent enzyme that participates in the redox cycle of glutathione. The glutathione redox cycle plays a major role in protecting organisms from reactive oxygen species, such as hydroperoxides. Glutathione reductase (GR) requires FAD to regenerate two molecules of reduced glutathione from oxidized glutathione. Riboflavin deficiency has been associated with increased oxidative stress (4). Measurement of GR activity in red blood cells is commonly used to assess riboflavin nutritional status (5). The erythrocyte glutathione reductase activation coefficient (EGRac) assay assesses riboflavin status by measuring the activity of GR before and after in vitro reactivation with its prosthetic group FAD; EGRac is calculated as the ratio of FAD-stimulated to unstimulated enzyme activity and indicates the degree of tissue saturation with riboflavin. EGRac is thus a functional measure of riboflavin status and has shown to be effective in reflecting biomarker status from severe deficiency to normal status (6).

Xanthine oxidase, another FAD-dependent enzyme, catalyzes the oxidation of hypoxanthine and xanthine to uric acid. Uric acid is one of the most effective water-soluble antioxidants in the blood. Riboflavin deficiency can result in decreased xanthine oxidase activity, reducing blood uric acid levels (7).

Riboflavin is the precursor of the coenzymes, flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) and flavin mononucleotide (FMN). They act as electron carriers in a number of oxidation-reduction(redox) reactions involved in energy production and in numerous metabolic pathways.

 

On 2/1/2016 at 1:22 AM, SarahVictoria said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

both of you are describing the same problems.  both of you need to start taking SAM.
 

On 2/1/2016 at 1:22 AM, SarahVictoria said:

My guess is that for each of us who has suffered from accutane we have each had undermethylation as a genetic fault.

This prevented our livers from being able to detox the accutane properly. And previously why we had such bad skin as our livers could not detox anything properly hence the acne.

From there I believe the accutane stored in the liver caused a estrogen dominance which concurrently increased copper.

ok you you basically described this page point for point lol.

1. undermethylation
2. liver detox
2. estrogen problems

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T335553.html

[Edited link out]

On 2/1/2016 at 4:59 AM, tryingtohelp2014 said:

both of you are describing the same problems. both of you need to start taking SAM.

ok you you basically described this page point for point lol.

1. undermethylation
2. liver detox
2. estrogen problems

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T335553.html

[Edited link out]

Well thats good news then, however I think these two approaches need to go hand in hand to be able to make real progress. A valid point raised by many in the nutritional balancing field is that imbalances in the body do not happen over night, and need consistent and long term treatments in order to restore health.

While improving methylation defiantly seems like the right steps for those affected by accutane, Im sure a balanced body would defiantly not hinder any progress.

36 minutes ago, koikoi123 said:

Well thats good news then, however I think these two approaches need to go hand in hand to be able to make real progress. A valid point raised by many in the nutritional balancing field is that imbalances in the body do not happen over night, and need consistent and long term treatments in order to restore health.

While improving methylation defiantly seems like the right steps for those affected by accutane, Im sure a balanced body would defiantly not hinder any progress.

Hair analysis is very subjective... i just had mine done.  and if you take it at face value, and think a copper imbalance is causing all of your problems.... its not.  a copper imbalance would just be another symptom of the problem...not THE problem itself.  we all all know the problem is accutane.

copper doesnt have a direct role in helping rid your body of accutane. maybe a minor indirect role? i.e.... your liver doesnt mobilize copper when taking accutane...it doesnt alter the bodies stores of copper.  what it does do, is alter an amino acid that potentially controls the amount of copper in your system.  just like accutane alters 200 different things.   trying to fix one of those 200 secondary things doesnt seem right.

 If a copper zinc ratio was the problem... i shouldve been cured by now. my copper is actually low, last one i had years ago showed normal.  ... still all of the common tane sides.

but i would be willing to bet nobody on this board has tried 1200-2000mg daily of SAM-E etc for a few months.

I suppose this issue effects everyone differently, and while your copper might be low, others could be higher. My copper was higher in 2013 when I had first taken the test, way out of what the lab considered normal anyway, and now yet again it still has stayed high. Ive read a lot of info on copper toxicity and while I understand we want to tailor what we read to our beliefs I still will go down the road of getting rid of copper.

'tryingtohelp' what have you done so far in improving methylation?

There is a BIG difference in what kind of hair analysis you do and which laboratory. Also the way practitioners interpret the analyses are very different from one another! Some use kind of a 'replacement-theory' and tells you to supplement with whatever is low on the chart. Nutritional balancing is SO much more complicated and there is a lot of research and knowledge behind it. For example, even though copper is low on the hair chart you can still have a HIDDEN copper toxicity!

Here is some info on all of this from dr Wilsons article on copper toxicity:

COPPER ASSESSMENT VIA HAIR MINERAL ANALYSIS

An ideal range of copper in the hair is about 1.5-2.5 mg% or about 15-25 ppm. Any number higher than this tends to indicate excessive copper in the hair tissue and, by extension, in other tissues of the body. A hair copper level of less than about 1.5 mg% usually indicates hidden copper toxicity.

Swimming in pools. Swimming in pools regularly or even regular use of a hot tub can increase the copper level in the hair. This is due to the use of copper compounds added to the water as disinfectants. These, of course, are best avoided if one has symptoms of elevated copper.

Note that the hair must not be washed at the laboratory for accurate results. Only two labs in the United States, Analytical Research Labs and Trace elements, Inc., do not wash the hair at the lab, as far as I know. See the article on this site entitled Introduction To Hair Mineral Analysis concerning this important aspect of hair analysis procedure. Avoiding washing of the hair at the laboratory is also important to assess copper indirectly, our next topic below.

Indirect copper indicators. The copper level on a hair mineral analysis is NOT the best way to assess copper status. The reason is that copper does not often accumulate in the hair tissue and too many other factors can skew the reading. In fact, copper assessment is quite complex.

Assessing the need for copper supplementation. A need for copper supplementation does not mean the entire body is low in copper. It just means that some is needed to balance the chemistry at a particular time. This is confusing, but it works well. Dr. Paul Eck researched this subject thoroughly, and I find that his methods work beautifully. Following are hair tissue mineral analysis indicators for a need for copper supplementation:

1) A fast oxidation rate. This is identified for you on mineral tests from Analytical Research Laboratories. The criteria are a calcium/potassium ratio less than 4:1 and a sodium/magnesium ratio greater than 4.17:1.

2) A hair sodium/potassium ratio less than about 2.5:1.

3) A hair calcium/magnesium that is less than about 3:1 is a secondary indicator and it only applies if the hair sodium/potassium ratio is less than 2.5:1.

These indicators apply no matter what the hair copper level may be. This is difficult to understand, but it works in practice and is very important to assist some patients. I have written more about this in other articles on this website, such as A Low Sodium/Potassium Ratio.

Assessing Biounavailable Copper. Most or perhaps all the time when copper is high in the hair or when hidden copper indicators are present, copper is at least somewhat biologically unavailable as well.

This may give rise to a combination of symptoms of toxicity and deficiency. In addition to all the indicators below for hidden copper toxicity, other indicators of the biounavailability of copper are:

Hidden Copper Toxicity Indicators. The hair copper level is a very unreliable indicator for copper toxicity. So is serum copper, serum ceruloplasmin, and many other tests because the copper can hide deep in the brain and the liver. A liver biopsy is a good indicator, but is a painful and somewhat invasive procedure. Dr. Eck found that a hair mineral analysis, however, offers indirect indicators that are very accurate. They include:

Most slow oxidizers and all very slow oxidizers.

Calcium level greater than about 70 mg%.

Magnesium greater than about 10 mg%.

Potassium level less than about 4 mg%.

Zinc less than about 13 mg%.

Zinc greater than about 20 mg% is often, but not always is a hidden copper indicator.

Copper level less than 1.5 mg% if usually an excellent indicator.

Mercury level greater than 0.03 mg%. (In an older book I co-authored with Dr. Paul Eck, entitled Toxic Metals in Human Health and Disease (1989), we wrote that the mercury level needs to be 0.4 mg% for hidden copper to be present. I believe this is an error and the level is closer to 0.03.)

Slow oxidation with a copper level less than 1.0 mg%

Calcium /potassium ratio greater than 10:1.

Sodium/potassium ratio less than about 2.5:1.

Phosphorus less than about 13 mg%. This is a newer indicator with less research behind it.

Four lows pattern.

Four highs pattern.

Sympathetic dominance pattern.

Calcium shell pattern.

Step down pattern.

Double low ratio pattern.

Bowl pattern.

Passive-aggressive pattern.

Wasting ones time or biding ones time pattern.

Stress from within and without pattern.

Extreme lifestyle stress pattern.

So, having said this - "tryingtohelp2014", my suggestion to you is to do an accurate hair analysis, preferably with the lab ARL, before you forget about the copper theory.

8 hours ago, koikoi123 said:

'tryingtohelp' what have you done so far in improving methylation?

This has to be a trick question right?

2 hours ago, SarahVictoria said:

 

So, having said this - "tryingtohelp2014", my suggestion to you is to do an accurate hair analysis, preferably with the lab ARL, before you forget about the copper theory.

Not discounting anything... but how does copper have any interaction with high dose retinoic acid?

I'm not a pro on this, but I have my theories which I think make a lot of sense. Retinoic acid is needed for the production of ceruloplasmin, which is the transport protein needed to balance copper in our bodies. My guess is that Accutane as a toxic form of vitamin A is messing all of this up somehow and creates a copper imbalance. Also of course the toxic effect on the liver is making it all worse.

Found this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3655940

1 hour ago, SarahVictoria said:

I'm not a pro on this, but I have my theories which I think make a lot of sense. Retinoic acid is needed for the production of ceruloplasmin, which is the transport protein needed to balance copper in our bodies. My guess is that Accutane as a toxic form of vitamin A is messing all of this up somehow and creates a copper imbalance. Also of course the toxic effect on the liver is making it all worse.

Found this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3655940

see, thats good stuff!   thats what helps here... making more possible connections.

but wouldnt an elevation in ceruloplasmin, which the study shows happens after 13-cis retinioic,  help rid the body of excess copper?  isnt that what binds it?  Wilsons disease , people have low ceruloplasmin? i f anything , you could make a case that accutane rids the body of excess copper, until you become deficient, then the effect wears off.  

thats what could be showing up on your hair analysis.   your body getting rid of excess copper in the hair.   it does this with zinc as well.  high zinc in a hair analysis is a sign of deficiency.

i remember years ago, well after accutane,  having a  serum copper and ceruloplasmin test done.. both were on lower normal end.  i did this because i took a lot of zinc.

The Dr. who consulted on my hair analysis metntioned ATP in numerous places... copper is needed for ATP.  ATP is also needed to make SAM-E from methionine. hmmm.

copper deficiency mimics a lot of our symptoms as well
http://draxe.com/copper-deficiency/

Just a friendly reminder to beware bogus diagnostics and unscrupulous health scammers. They're out there waiting for desperate people like us.

A close acquaintance recently became involved in posting information about animal-health on multiple online forums which directed potential customers to online storefronts and "personal blogs" containing links to various products. All that matters on pay day are the number of links and resulting purchases, not the validity of the information leading to them.

Surely, hundreds of thousands of dollars have been generated from this thread in a similar manner. How many of you have bought supposed remedies being discussed here and never bothered to talk about your experience because they don't work?

Don't be a fool.

So I just got my bloodwork back.
I have T levels of a 75 year old man. My total test is 152. I'm 21 years old. My free test is 2.9. I'm 21 years old. My doctor wants to run another test checking more things next week. I want to kill myself. I think today might be the day. I did the test in the morning on an empty stomach. Just like what was told to me.

I always knew my T levels were sup optimal. Not 150 fucking NG/DL's. I really can't take life right now. I got nothing. I got no one. And you know what the worst part is? I don't WANT anything. I don't WANT anyone. And thats the worst part. When the "want" goes. Not having is one thing. Suffering is one thing. But Not WANTING? That's when you know its the end. I'm sick of this shit.

1 hour ago, Dubya_B said:

Surely, hundreds of thousands of dollars have been generated from this thread in a similar manner. How many of you have bought supposed remedies being discussed here and never bothered to talk about your experience because they don't work?

Don't be a fool.

i dont think anyone on this thread sticks with any one treatment long enough to post any results. pre/post bloodwork anyway. last i checked... i dont think anybody here is getting checks in the mail from a supplement company either lol. yeah hair analysis is probably one step above snake oil salesmenship. i will give you that.

Dubya, butstudies are studies. for instance.....i would bet you anything, nobody, and i mean nobody in the ENTIRE history of this thread has taken 2000mg of SAM-E per day for 6 months....like a normal double blind study has shown, works to help all liver function tests. NOBODY! 1000000% NOBODY. Is it a cure? who knows.... who knows if this has anything to do with the liver anymore. thats my theory anyway, backed by a shit-ton of real science. but to dismiss anything without trying, thats being a fool.

sticking your head in the sand wont help. either youre working the problem, or youre not.

32 minutes ago, marlin15 said:

So I just got my bloodwork back.
I have T levels of a 75 year old man. My total test is 152. I'm 21 years old. My free test is 2.9. I'm 21 years old. My doctor wants to run another test checking more things next week. I want to kill myself. I think today might be the day. I did the test in the morning on an empty stomach. Just like what was told to me.

I always knew my T levels were sup optimal. Not 150 fucking NG/DL's. I really can't take life right now. I got nothing. I got no one. And you know what the worst part is? I don't WANT anything. I don't WANT anyone. And thats the worst part. When the "want" goes. Not having is one thing. Suffering is one thing. But Not WANTING? That's when you know its the end. I'm sick of this shit.

No man you'll feel better in a little bit. for every dark day there is a lighter one. just relax take a deep breath. everyone has postives in their life so hold on to that shit. and low testosterone they can treat that. if you're feeling way down they can treat that too. We can help each other so hang in there

1 hour ago, Dubya_B said:

Just a friendly reminder to beware bogus diagnostics and unscrupulous health scammers. They're out there waiting for desperate people like us.

A close acquaintance recently became involved in posting information about animal-health on multiple online forums which directed potential customers to online storefronts and "personal blogs" containing links to various products. All that matters on pay day are the number of links and resulting purchases, not the validity of the information leading to them.

Surely, hundreds of thousands of dollars have been generated from this thread in a similar manner. How many of you have bought supposed remedies being discussed here and never bothered to talk about your experience because they don't work?

Don't be a fool.

dont hate the player hate the game. all we can do is try. we are all trying. hope is a powerful thing.

here is a nice random study that has nothing to do with accutane http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10545-010-9242-z/fulltext.html
Riboflavin transport deficiency. anythings possible with accutane right?
they had to treat this with 10mg/kg per day or symptoms came back.
so for me this would be 800mg per day.
and you know rioflavin, flavonoids and fad are involved in a ton of processes. flavonoids are used to expel accutane in the first place

2 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

i dont think anyone on this thread sticks with any one treatment long enough to post any results. pre/post bloodwork anyway. last i checked... i dont think anybody here is getting checks in the mail from a supplement company either lol. yeah hair analysis is probably one step above snake oil salesmenship. i will give you that.

Dubya, butstudies are studies. for instance.....i would bet you anything, nobody, and i mean nobody in the ENTIRE history of this thread has taken 2000mg of SAM-E per day for 6 months....like a normal double blind study has shown, works to help all liver function tests. NOBODY! 1000000% NOBODY. Is it a cure? who knows.... who knows if this has anything to do with the liver anymore. thats my theory anyway, backed by a shit-ton of real science. but to dismiss anything without trying, thats being a fool.

Don't forget, several health scammers have been outed throughout the 300+ pages of this thread, and people do indeed receive checks for posting links to products on health-related message boards.

You can find work-from-home programs doing the same if you don't have a soul or morals. Take your pick:
https://www.google.com/#q=health+supplements+affiliate+program
It's no joke, it's a multi-biillion dollar industry.

I think the only people burying their head in the sand are those who sleep easy at night believing their nightmare will certainly end once enough hope has accumulated.

Blindly following is foolish as well.
My advice is simply a word of caution to beware of health scams, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. No reason to take offense. My apologies if any was taken.

On the other hand, hopefully anyone who is bold enough to recommend a treatment is bold enough to put their money where their mouth is.

.

I started a methylation protocol about a week and a half ago.  SAMe 800mg, Methyl B12 2,500-3,000mg, and Methyl Folate 1-5mg (I put ranges since I'm titrating up).  My nerves are very grateful.  It's like they suddenly turned on after years of no use.  I noticed it most in my hands and feet.  Will report back after some more time.  I also do liver flushes religiously and will be doing another in mid-February.  To report back!

Has anyone been successful with overcoming candida/yeast and bacterial infections? I feel like it's part of this mixed bag, and it's more the "garbage-can" of symptoms due to poor bile flow and poor digestion/poor elimination.  What about others?  Anyone else here a sugar addict? Not uncommon if you have candida, but, I legitimately feel like I will die if I don't eat sugar.  Sugar produces quick energy but is obviously not healthy and messes with glucose/insulin in the body. I think it speaks to really severe metabolic issues as well. I'm hoping methylation will assist with this.  It is way too early to tell.  Some people say they don't really notice many benefits until months or even a year later.

1 hour ago, Dubya_B said:

I think the only people burying their head in the sand are those who sleep easy at night believing their nightmare will certainly end once enough hope has accumulated.

nice. you should work for hallmark. you are killing my chi man. why dont you look a couple comments above yours and this is what you chose to talk about? we all have the same shit in common we are all in this together including you. I know youve tried and other people keep trying. your anger seems misdirected

@tryingtohelp2014 Here's a great podcast that thoroughly describes methylation and then the relationship it has with copper, yes copper perhaps being a repercussion of undermethylation, yet a definite inhibitor of further methylation itself.

"There are parallel systems and there are interlocking systems. Indirectly, what copper can do is that can actually chelate or tie up very helpful elements in the system that are necessary in support of methylation."

From what this Doctor has explained, a total dietary approach has to to be undertaken in order to restore methylation, and this includes restoring the bodies balance of nutrients, what nutritional balancing seeks to achieve. Perhaps this isn't the the most accurate way by itself but it sure seems like its working in the right direction.

Have a listen,

[Removed]

• 02:28About Dr. Albert Mensah and Mensah Medical
• 05:28Copper Dysregulation
• 07:07Methylation and its Role in Detoxification
• 11:39 Methylation and Genetics
• 12:46 How Methylation is Affected by Stress
• 15:13 Methylations Effect on Detox Ability
• 21:37Overmethylation
• 25:09Tests to Detect Overmethylation
• 26:25Undermethylation
• 30:11 Treatment Approach for Undermethylation
• 33:13 Priorities in Treatment Approach
• 35:05 Effect of Copper and Other Minerals on Methylation
• 41:35Copper Toxicity and Dysregulation
• 53:02Mensah Medical Clinics

Here were my test results. I have been supplementing creatine, which is why my kidney function stats could be skewed.
My testosterone is high, but still in normal range, though my SHBG is above range so my free T is average, or even on the low side. My guess that I might have anaemia seems wrong, nothing out of range there.
I wish I had results from before I went had my vitamin a splurge. The reason my glucose is high is simply because I didn't fast that morning.
My theory atm is still that it is due to an imbalance in fat soluble vitamins, and apparently low Vit D can cause high levels of SHBG... Anyway, the doc thought my SHBG levels were a fluke, due to high levels of intense training, so he wants me to have another test on Friday, at least two days after my last training session.

Thats all for now  

Oh, the SHGB could also be due to stress on my liver, seeing it would have only been a month since I ingested all the vitamin A when I had the test.

I think it will be lower by Friday regardless 

On 02/02/2016 at 4:06 PM, koikoi123 said:

@tryingtohelp2014 Here's a great podcast that thoroughly describes methylation and then the relationship it has with copper, yes copper perhaps being a repercussion of undermethylation, yet a definite inhibitor of further methylation itself.

"There are parallel systems and there are interlocking systems. Indirectly, what copper can do is that can actually chelate or tie up very helpful elements in the system that are necessary in support of methylation."

From what this Doctor has explained, a total dietary approach has to to be undertaken in order to restore methylation, and this includes restoring the bodies balance of nutrients, what nutritional balancing seeks to achieve. Perhaps this isn't the the most accurate way by itself but it sure seems like its working in the right direction.

Have a listen,

https://liveto110.com/?powerpress_pinw=24833-podcast

• 02:28About Dr. Albert Mensah and Mensah Medical
• 05:28Copper Dysregulation
• 07:07Methylation and its Role in Detoxification
• 11:39 Methylation and Genetics
• 12:46 How Methylation is Affected by Stress
• 15:13 Methylations Effect on Detox Ability
• 21:37Overmethylation
• 25:09Tests to Detect Overmethylation
• 26:25Undermethylation
• 30:11 Treatment Approach for Undermethylation
• 33:13 Priorities in Treatment Approach
• 35:05 Effect of Copper and Other Minerals on Methylation
• 41:35Copper Toxicity and Dysregulation
• 53:02Mensah Medical Clinics

Cool that your bringing up copper as I just had a blood test done that showed my ceruloplasmin and copper levels were low. I'm going into see my functional medical doctor on Thursday but so far just talking over email he says I might have a mild case of Wilsons Disease. Which is kind of exciting and depressing at the same time. Researching copper toxicity matches up with so many of my/our symptoms. I'm finishing up my Sibo treatment which has helped alot with my digestion and food tolerance. I also feel generally lighter and feel like I can talk and think a bit more clearer. My mood is a bit better as well. Still a long way to go and with that being said my frustration is close to an all time high. I'm ******* fed up with living to mabey 2% of my potential. My energy levels still blow it's a struggle for me to get off the couch to make food. That's even with taking almost 60mcg of synthetic T3. The only thing that gives me energy and motivation is ironically smoking weed (Which I rarely do). But when I smoke 75% of the time I get this pressure in the center of my head almost like my sinuses are inflamed from an allergic response. Kills the high cause I can barely focus or think past the pressure.

On 1/31/2016 at 0:48 PM, guitarman01 said:

this sounds a little different and I know I pregame everything, but what about a nasal steroid specifically nasonex as my dr said its spose to be the strongest. Takes some time to build up in the system, but after a week or so seems to help with brain fog ,energy, fatigue, dry eyes, dry skin, dry hair. this spray even though its used in the nose I can feel it going to work on my gut messed up my shits at first and it gives me a real slim stomach. Also makes me feel more potent sexually in various ways. I know one of the rare side effects is acne from this spray. but I wonder if this is just the right steroid in just the right amount that is helpful for our post tane bodies. Idk but ill let you know if continued success because ive used it off and on for less then a month. I was thinking it was these other supplements helping me and I'd quit the spray but maybe it was the spray all along.

k nasal steroid aint it lol. this shit bloated my face a little bit. So no one listen to this guy

But im still feeling pretty good about vitamin b2 im taking 800mgs a day divided by 2