Reposting this shit for those that believe accutane is still in our livers/tissues. This could show how and why right here. look at all these connections. this is your p450(low nadh) detox thats missing riboflavin (a shit ton of it) that looks like accutane pushed out of the liver and increased in tissues. and possibly left its metabolism screwed up in the liver.

Detecting retinoic acid-induced biochemical alterations
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1288/00005537-199403000-00007/abstract
Spectroscopic scans demonstrated consistently that RA-treated MTS exhibit a decrease in the peak associated with reduced nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide (NADH) and an increase in the peaks associated with flavins, tryptophan, and cytokeratins when compared to controls. These findings are suggestive of alterations in cellular electron transport, an increase in proteins incorporating tryptophan, and a decrease in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) in the RA-treated cells.

I Think it is. This is a fairly new method of looking at live tissue and the effects that retinoic acid had on them.
Any thoughts?

LOOK AT THIS!
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/31/4/476.short
RIBOFLAVINMETABOLIZESACCUTANE IN THE LIVER!
(drops the mic)

wiki

CYP2C8 In previous issues ofPharmacy Times, we discussed other members of the cytochrome P450 (CYP) 2C family, CYP2C9 and CYP2C19. In this issue, we will discuss CYP2C8an enzyme whose importance in the metabolism of retinoic acid and arachidonic acid has been recognized for many years

there is some more info for you to get the ball rolling

CYP2C8 Inducers

The only drug that has been shown to induce (stimulate) CYP2C8 in vivo is rifampin. Rifampin is known to induce several drug metabolism pathways, so it is likely to reduce the plasma concentration of CYP2C8 substrates even if they have multiple pathways of elimination. Enzyme inducers tend to be broad spectrum, in that they often induce several CYP isozymes, so it is possible that other inducers (eg, phenobarbital, St. Johns wort) may also induce CYP2C8.
WTF people remember that dude that said st john wort helped/cured him.
I meanseriouslywtf, how can you not get excited about this.(at least for a couple days)

14 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

19 hours ago, macleod said:

been living with post retinoid secondary intracranial pressure

What test diagnosed this? I recently seen a neurologist. And he recommended a couple test. My mri and CT scan were normal.

Did you get a lumbar puncture, macleod?

23 minutes ago, Mike San said:

Did you get a lumbar puncture, macleod?

Yeah good question - I'm curious in knowing myself as I have pressure in the head coupled with high sensitivity to sunlight.

I want to know how to relieve this - could this sensitivity to light be a Vit D issue perhaps?

Are lumbar punctures dangerous? Also who performs them?

I will say that some recent Kineisiology I've had done has been very helpful in relieving pressure. When I get in the zone,my rapid eye movement is full on, my nervous system gets major relief and a whole lot of stress leaves my body - it's still not a total cure though for accutane problems!!

I recommend seeing a Keineisiologist if you can for relief of nervous system and head tension.

11 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

Reposting this shit for those that believe accutane is still in our livers/tissues. This could show how and why right here. look at all these connections. this is your p450(low nadh) detox thats missing riboflavin (a shit ton of it) that looks like accutane pushed out of the liver and increased in tissues. and possibly left its metabolism screwed up in the liver.

Detecting retinoic acid-induced biochemical alterations
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1288/00005537-199403000-00007/abstract
Spectroscopic scans demonstrated consistently that RA-treated MTS exhibit a decrease in the peak associated with reduced nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide (NADH) and an increase in the peaks associated with flavins, tryptophan, and cytokeratins when compared to controls. These findings are suggestive of alterations in cellular electron transport, an increase in proteins incorporating tryptophan, and a decrease in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) in the RA-treated cells.

I Think it is. This is a fairly new method of looking at live tissue and the effects that retinoic acid had on them.
Any thoughts?

LOOK AT THIS!
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/31/4/476.short
RIBOFLAVINMETABOLIZESACCUTANE IN THE LIVER!
(drops the mic)

wiki

CYP2C8 In previous issues ofPharmacy Times, we discussed other members of the cytochrome P450 (CYP) 2C family, CYP2C9 and CYP2C19. In this issue, we will discuss CYP2C8an enzyme whose importance in the metabolism of retinoic acid and arachidonic acid has been recognized for many years

there is some more info for you to get the ball rolling

CYP2C8 Inducers

The only drug that has been shown to induce (stimulate) CYP2C8 in vivo is rifampin. Rifampin is known to induce several drug metabolism pathways, so it is likely to reduce the plasma concentration of CYP2C8 substrates even if they have multiple pathways of elimination. Enzyme inducers tend to be broad spectrum, in that they often induce several CYP isozymes, so it is possible that other inducers (eg, phenobarbital, St. Johns wort) may also induce CYP2C8.
WTF people remember that dude that said st john wort helped/cured him.
I meanseriouslywtf, how can you not get excited about this.(at least for a couple days)

I have blood shot eyes, it's linked to vitamin b2 deficiency. A connection maybe?
Anyways, honestly did anyone drink while on accutane?
i did, I was so depressed and the only thing that made me happy was alcohol.
I kept on drinking, every weekend until it didn't work no more. That was when my red eye started. Alcohol is known to deplete you of B vitamins, am I right?

14 hours ago, Accutainted4ever said:

There seems to be debate on this forum about whether or not we should be supplementing vitamins A, D and K2
For those of you who supplement with these vitamins, what are your reasons for doing so?
For those of you who don't, what are your reasons for avoiding them?
I recently found a supplement containing vitamins A, D and K2 in the below ratios.
I'm considering taking one serving (capsule) 2-3 times a week. Comments?

	Amount Per Serving	% Daily Value
Vitamin A (as Retinyl Palmitate)	5,000 IU	100%
Vitamin D3 (as Cholecalciferol)	5,000 IU	1,250%
Vitamin K2 (as MK-7)	500 mcg	625%

I was on that, felt real good for a few months, but overshot it by taking 30,000iu vit D a day with no blood tests done. Result was I crashed and must have knocked something out of balance in my body.
Dont do what I did, and don't forget to add magnesium, B complex to the stack

So a not so interesting update;

I took a very low dose two times, suppository.

After 30 minutes:
- Shortness of breath
- Facial flush
- Facial sweating
This remains for 5-10 minutes and after that I'm left with a somewhat clearer mind.

Since I took the suppositories my sleep sucks, alot of dreaming/nightmares and I'm fully awake 30 minutes before my timer.
This could be just a placebo effect, maybe its just me worrying alot.

I'll keep you guys updated.
Oh yeah, for the others who are trying it, a syringe is the least uncomfortable.

11 hours ago, Mike San said:

Did you get a lumbar puncture, macleod?

No, he ordered up a ct scan and some other tests which i completed (i acutally have the disc right here), but this was a while back when I was 23 so at the same time my insurance ran out, and so it's been a while since i went back to him. Although, I am planning to see him this year.

Guys pls someone reply to this, i used 40mg accutane for 6 months and stoped using it 3 months ago, my hair is dry as fuck, my eyes are dry as fuck, sometimes i get tired without doing anything and get sleepy aswell but i cant sleep too, im not fat unhealty person, i was really active before this accutane shit, now i just wantto lie down somewhere or i push my shoulder on walls and shit, my back is fucked up too prbly <.< . which vitamins should i use ? Biotin ? vitamin A ? i dont have any trust to any dermatologist now, i went like 6-7 difrent dermatologist they doesnt know anything.
Pls help guys.

3 hours ago, Walden Rev said:

So a not so interesting update;

I took a very low dose two times, suppository.

After 30 minutes:
- Shortness of breath
- Facial flush
- Facial sweating
This remains for 5-10 minutes and after that I'm left with a somewhat clearer mind.

Since I took the suppositories my sleep sucks, alot of dreaming/nightmares and I'm fully awake 30 minutes before my timer.
This could be just a placebo effect, maybe its just me worrying alot.

I'll keep you guys updated.
Oh yeah, for the others who are trying it, a syringe is the least uncomfortable.

I sometimes find when I've started trying a new supplement I'm focusing too much on stuff like potentially elevated heart rate, but once you get used to it you don't focus on it anymore. Thanks for keeping us updated anyway!

Do most of you here feel depression symptoms? I'm just wondering if its a small number or if the majority here have symptoms of depression or chronic depression.

I could honestly deal with the other side effects. Its just my piece of mind im really after.

Anyone try high dose l lysine? At least 2g or more per day? Couple post accutane people said it gave them bad acne. Which in our case might be a good thing

16 hours ago, Cory90 said:

Do most of you here feel depression symptoms? I'm just wondering if its a small number or if the majority here have symptoms of depression or chronic depression.

I could honestly deal with the other side effects. Its just my piece of mind im really after.

Yes, for the longest time I used to think perhaps something was wrong with the adrenal glands or hormones, but from following this site for many years, most of us come back within the range of good levels, which now I'm starting to realize this apathy, lethargy, lack of motivation, no longer enjoying socialization, meeting new people are indeed textbook depressive symptoms. A complete 180 from the person I was for the 20 years up until the drug. Which would explain why some of us see a change in our personality through alochol use (a central nervous system depressant) and other substance abuse (I think one user mentioned mdma). Which obviously is not a long term solution and has the potential of doing more harm than good.

But, it would fit the pattern. It is a listed possible side effect. And the hundreds of stories of the kids in England and around the world...You know the saying, where there's smoke, there is fire. It's very plausible. There's a scientific study in the pubmed archive polling dermatologists that came back with 30% saying they believed it had the potential to cause depression. It's totally egregious that a Swiss company can hire American lawyers to fight American citizens in a court and the lawyers cite a lack of evidence as proof that the drug does not permeate the blood brain barrier, when there are dozens of scientific studies done on mice proving this. And Roche is known for withholding data from the FDA of their pre-trial studies before licensing. It's actually a fairly common practice within the pharmaceutical industry, and in my opinion, its perverse, and it really has to change. There is a Ted Talks with a doctor by the name of Ben Goldacre, who covers this very issue, its a great watch.

43 minutes ago, Modeaa said:

 

https://books.google.co.il/books?id=hXYLLkgYp2QC&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=Norepinephrine+isotretinoin&source=bl&ots=eqmCrn4lHe&sig=2TJyi53Ul0V1982F7bvu9gy5zKY&hl=iw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw3YWQ0qLKAhUJOBoKHWTdCssQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=Norepinephrine%20isotretinoin&f=false

TABLE 18-2 mecahnisem of drug-induced depression

isotretinoin- alters dopaminergic, serotonin and possibly norepinphrin systems

 

I felt completely fine while on accutane, cant remember if it was 4 or 6 months. I also felt fine I believe a few months after accutane. just like the hair loss thing didnt start till after my course that I started noticing subtle things like lack of concentration and facial flushing. So why is this? wouldnt toxicity be at its peak while taking the drug? what changes/happens after we stop taking it?
Was our body getting used to high doses of something just like a drug addiction and then when we all of a sudden stop we get withdrawal type symptoms?

Yea, same here dude. I had a full two - three months before the hair loss and all the side effects start hitting like a wave. I actually have an ex-gf who was fine for several years and it wasn't until after she had a child did her ibs symptoms begin to progressively get worse. At the time she thought maybe it might haveplayed a part in her being a vegetarian as a teen, because that's what her body could tolerate, but she's convinced now it was the medication after her child. And trust me I hate her, she broke my heart, I should not care, but I feel her pain, because I'm ironically in the same situation. A lot of people's arguments are "well ibs and depression can be caused by so many things, you can't attribute it to the drug that I took or prescribed and 90% came out fine" It's like "hey dummy i was fine, took this drug, and now i'm not fine" All within the span of 4 months. Been living on earth for 20 years up until then. People then start asking us for "proof" like were f scientists,but I can tell you as an athlete for the majority of my life and running now in my 20's with tendonitis and arthritis is not normal. "But these are common ailments" To an extent! For a 40-50yr old maybe. Also, I never had tinnitus and intracranial pressure, dummy, until this drug.

But yea, to stay on topic, and to the science. Yea, it's gotta be retinoid, vit A receptors, they must of been thrown off. And both hyper and hypo vitaminosis A wreaks havoc in organisms. We need the ideal amount in our bodies.

so now I just read a new study that its too much serotonin causes anxiety. then I look up serotonin syndrome http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/serotonin-syndrome/basics/symptoms/con-20028946 I could put up a check mark next to alot of these symptoms, to a lesser degree I hope. then i look at study i just posted.
Spectroscopic scans demonstrated consistently that RA-treated MTS exhibit a decrease in the peak associated with reduced nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide (NADH) and an increase in the peaks associated with flavins, tryptophan, and cytokeratins when compared to controls. These findings are suggestive of alterations in cellular electron transport, an increase in proteins incorporating tryptophan, and a decrease in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) in the RA-treated cells.
Tryptophan=serotonin.
lysine blocks the part of serotonin that causes anxiety. its Involved in collagen production, plays major role in calcium absorption(hypervitaminosis A can cause osteoporosis but they dont quite know why yet) lysine is involved in hormone production, its a protein in our hair, its giving people acne that have taken accutane. Then I find this study.

Modulation of retinoic acid receptor alpha activity by lysine methylation in the DNA binding domain

Meaning it shuts down lysine?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18781795

then this study

Identification of Functionally Relevant Lysine Residues That Modulate Human Farnesoid X Receptor Activation

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/83/5/1078.full
The nuclear receptor (NR) farnesoid X receptor (FXR; NR1H4) plays a crucial role in cholesterol and bile acid homeostasis in liver. Recently, the functions of FXR have been extended to glucose and fatty acid metabolism, prevention of gallstone formation, liver regeneration, inhibition of intestinal bacterial growth, and inhibition of inflammation

basic lysine residues of proteins play a crucial role in protein-protein and protein-DNA association (Lu and Hansen, 2003;Sumimoto et al., 2007). The-amino group of lysine residues often participates in hydrogen bonding and in catalysis of ligand interactions that may be critical for transporter protein function and substrate specificity (Sun et al., 2006). Moreover, many studies show that lysine residues are particularly critical for the posttranslational modifications, such as methylation, acetylation, ubiquitination, and SUMOylation.

BAM
so new word of the day is LYSINE and you can take it in very high doses its very safe. I haven't even seen this supplement floated on this board yet.

I have systemic pain from oxalate buildup in the soft tissues due to accutane.

Interesting post by Sterling of mthfrsupport.com about lysine and a possible niacin connection as well:
Sidenote: high dose flushing niacin and niacinamide (3,000mg per day) CURESall depression for me.

"Intense fibro will come from NADPH deficiency as well as oxalates. There are safer ways to get oxalates under control by looking at b6's and lysine as well as having magnesium citrate and calcium citrate to bind them"

"In organisms, NAD can be synthesized from simple building-blocks (de novo) from the amino acidstryptophanoraspartic acid. In an alternative fashion, more complex components of the coenzymes are taken up from food as thevitamincalled niacin. Similar compounds are released by reactions that break down the structure of NAD. These preformed components then pass through a salvage pathway that recycles them back into the active form. Some NAD is also converted intonicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate(NADP); the chemistry of this related coenzyme is similar to that of NAD, but it has different roles in metabolism."

"...the body starts to make endogenouse oxalates because of B6 deficiency and/or lysine (b6 deficiency will make endogenous oxalates and lysine is needed for b6 to hook to receptors to function) the body will stop transporting calcium to the bone and set up shop in tissues and organs making calcium oxalate crystals like little tiny glass shards. This is quite painful. I have had them in my salivary glands and also interstatial cystitis. Another thing to look at is G6PD. If someone is deficient here and it is the most underlooked but most common enzyme deficiency in the world, you will be basically screwed until fixing the issue. It negatively impacts your acetylation on lysine then in turn b6 cannot be utilzed. Oxalates shut down methitonine synthase. MTHFR cannot function so that is why many people feel better on high dose folate which is still I hate to say this, going in ass backwards because you are still not resolving the situation until you resolve the oxalate issues. Did you know that 90% of people with cancer have elevated oxalates? Enough of my rant. LOL but you know how I get.-Sterling"

we have ssri type sexualdysfunction? too much serotonin? antihistamines are anti serotonin? thats why I feel better taking claritin? claritin used for ssri related sexutal dysfunction study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872

also just read in a forum this guy was seeing his psychiatrist and he thought he had to much serotonin going on to put in his words because he was so gloomy and foggy he prescribed adderall and some 1st gen antihistamine.
not saying we should take antihistamines because it would compound our drying effect. but maybe we have had too much serotonin going on all along.

I recommend getting the book Tox-Sick. Details a lot of great ways to detoxify the body from the top experts in the world from Walter Crinnion, Nicholas Gonzalez, Ritchie Shoemaker, to Garry Gordon etc..

By the way, Dr. Crinnion says doing 5 colonics within a 2-week period is the BEST way to lower the total body burden of toxins. He doesn't know of a better way. This is from experience with HUNDREDS of patients who are chemically sensitive and have terrible immunotoxicological symptoms like autoimmune diseases.

And coffee enemas are the BEST way to cleanse the liver according to Dr. Gonzalez. He says you can clear a lifetime worth of toxins from the body just from doing a single year's worth of daily CEs.

Inhibition of nitric oxide synthesis in vascular smooth muscle by retinoids.l -arginine reversed this effect

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7534188
NO is an importantcellular signalingmolecule. It helps modulatevascular tone,insulinsecretion, airway tone, andperistalsis, and is involved inangiogenesisand neural development. It may function as a retrogradeneurotransmitter. Nitric oxide is mediated in mammals by thecalcium-calmodulincontrolledisoenzymeseNOS (endothelial NOS) and nNOS (neuronal NOS). The inducible isoform, iNOS, is involved in immune response, binds calmodulin at physiologically relevant concentrations, and produces NO as an immune defense mechanism, as NO is a free radical with an unpaired electron. It is theproximate causeofseptic shockand may function inautoimmunedisease.
Use of Arginine to Reduce the Severity of Retinoid-Induced Hypertriglyceridemia

http://www.jbc.org/content/271/30/17996.full.pdf
Identification of Amino Acids Critical for the DNA Binding and Dimerization Properties of the Human Retinoic Acid Receptor

Marked resistance of RAR(retinoic acid receptor) gamma-deficient mice to the toxic effects of retinoic acid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7631783

BCAAs compete with theamino acid tryptophanfor entry into the brain, where tryptophan can be converted to the neurotransmitter serotonin.

During exercise, serotonin levels rise and can (among other things) increase the perception of fatiguethat means a less intense workout for you.

BCAA supplementation reduces the amount of tryptophan that enters the brain, and therefore reduces the amount of serotonin produced. This might allow you to work harder, longer.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v101/n6/full/5611422a.html Cytotoxicity for both fibroblasts and epithelial cells was blocked by addition of phosphatidylcholine to the cells along with the retinoid.

you guys havent discussed l arginine on here yet?
its responsible for nitric oxide synthesis and a shit ton of other processes hormones,blood flow, heart health, hair and skin health.
nitric oxide= boners. no nitric oxide no boners.

Inhibition of nitric oxide synthesis in vascular smooth muscle by retinoids

brand new study from aug 2015
The neurotoxic effects of vitamin A and retinoids
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0001-37652015000301361&script=sci_arttext
NO may play an important role in the neurotoxicity elicited by vitamin A

THIS IS SOME NEW DEEP SHIT PEOPLE, READ UP. WHERE ARE MY SMART PEOPLE AT? I AM JUST A PROFESSIONAL GOOGLER
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21521362

L-NAME cotreatment did prevent neither mitochondrial impairment nor behavioral abnormalities in adult Wistar rats treated with vitamin A supplementation.

BUT! They only used the equivalent for a 160lbs person of 2grams of arginine 4x per week for up to 630,000iu of vitamin A daily!

So I contacted one of the lead engineers (Carpenter) of the Cyclodextrin study involving the child with A-hypervitaminosis.

I asked some basic questions and got immediate response:

Great finds guitar man.

I bought l arginine with a whole laundry list of supplements in an attempt to help my l5s1 herniation heal.

So your saying it has potential here?