In my experience, SAM-e made me feel a LOT less depressed, but I think it also caused sexual side effects, specifically weak orgasms. It boosts both serotonin and dopamine. I think I would be better off taking a supplement that just boosts dopamine.

For those of you who have chronic pain in the muscles, joints, tendons etc. I'd suggest doing intermittent fasting. I've been intermittent fasting over the past 6 weeks and have a lot less pain in my body and greater energy than before. I fast for a minimum of 16 hours (water only). Some days I fast up to 18 hours.

I also changed my diet to one that is high in saturated and monounsaturated fat, moderate in protein and moderate in carbs. Specifically, I'm following the "Perfect Health Diet". I would recommend this diet to everyone. The guy who wrote the book took Accutane himself.

For the first time in nearly 20 years, my face is capableof tanning. Before my face would just go red when I got a bit of sun exposure. Only my body would tan. Now my face is nice and tanned, so both intermittent fasting and the new diet are helping. I wish I had tried both long ago!

3 hours ago, Accutainted4ever said:

In my experience, SAM-e made me feel a LOT less depressed, but I think it also caused sexual side effects, specifically weak orgasms. It boosts both serotonin and dopamine. I think I would be better off taking a supplement that just boosts dopamine.

Check my last post on the previous page for a great podcast on how to check which supps you may need.

As for the PhD book, I also highly recommend it. Dr. Jaminet and his wife did a fantastic job! Be aware, though, that some foods claimed to be safe are not safe for all, like sweet potatoes or dark chocolate. I had to learn it the hard way. Oxalates built up in my body. If you notice a worsening of muscle pain, this may be the cause.

3 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

I dont get it. So is this two different products or just their trademarked brand name?

what i purchased is hydroxypropyl bcd, and didnt dr carpenter infuse it?

I think he was saying BCD is not suitable for IV but HPBCD is.

11 hours ago, Modeaa said:

methionine is used for making protein, accutane can cause kidnay dammage hence nutrients and protein wasting,

endotelial glycoclax are needed for preventing capillaries (blood vessels) damage. in kidney disase those endotelial gycoclax are dammaged, accutane been shown to cause kidney dammage,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Methionine

is an -amino acid that is used in the biosynthesis of proteins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Proteinuria

With severe proteinuria, general hypoproteinemia can develop which results in diminished oncotic pressure.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2960375-5/abstract

''The endothelial glycocalyx, a friable but protective lining of all blood vessels, is damaged in both atherosclerosis and kidney disease''

 

http://max001.proboards.com/thread/65/ro-accutane-proteinuria-albuminuria-micturitio

(Ro)accutane induced irreversible proteinuria

...(Ro)accutane is found to cause a statistically significant induction of TGF-beta1 in several independent studies. Six weeks of isotretinoin treatment caused a statistically significant 19% increase in suction blister fluid TGF-beta1 [1]. There are no measured values of the cumulative effect after 3-4 months exposure, which is common in acne-subjects. Various studies have shown that significantly increased TGF-beta1 correlate with with the amount of urinary protein excretion (proteinuria and albumineria), in a dose, but also importantly time dependent manner. This due to failure in the kidney, of renal proximal tubular protein reabsorbtion. This is of major importance, because a significant failure in reabsorbtion leads to the loss of important vitamins, hormones and amino-acids [2].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Renal_protein_reabsorption

Renal protein reabsorption is the part of renal physiology that deals with the retrieval of filtered proteins, preventing them from disappearing from the body through the urine.

Almost all reabsorption takes place in the proximal tubule. Only ~1%[1] is left in the final urine.

The proteins cross the apical membrane by endocytosis. They are subsequently degraded in lysosomes. The remaining free amino acids are transported across the basolateral membrane by amino acid transporters.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Proximal_convoluted_tubule

''Fluid in the filtrate entering the proximal convoluted tubule is reabsorbed into the peritubular capillaries. This is driven by sodium transport from the lumen into the blood by the Na+/K+ ATPase in the basolateral membrane of the epithelial cells. Sodium reabsorption is primarily driven by this P-type ATPase. This is the most important transport mechanism in the PCT.

.....Many types of medications are secreted in the proximal tubule. Further reading: Table of medication secreted in kidney''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Capillary

Capillaries are the smallest of a body's blood vessels (and lymph vessels) that make up the microcirculation. Their endothelial linings are only one cell layer thick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Capillary_leak_syndrome

..... Treatment

The capillary leak phase

...'' Urgent medical attention in this phase consists of fluid resuscitation efforts, mainly the intravenous administration of saline solution plus hetastarch or albumin and colloids (to increase the remaining blood flow to vital organs like the kidneys), as well as glucocorticoids (steroids like methylprednisolone, to reduce or stop the capillary leak).[2] ''

glucocrticoids can also decrease foxo:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23516608

'' Glucocorticoid-induced leucine zipper (GILZ) regulates testicular FOXO1 activity and spermatogonial stem cell (SSC) function.

....Together, these results suggest that GILZ suppresses FOXO1 ''

prednisolone is used in the next study as such GLIZ inducer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046708

''Glucocorticoid-induced leucine zipper (GILZ), a recently identified protein induced by glucocorticoids (GCs),

. we (1) assessed GILZ expression in the livers of patients with AH and (2) treated patients with severe AH with GCs (prednisolone 40 mg/day) and studied the effect of GILZ modulation on circulating monocyte function. ''

prednisolone is the active metabolite of the drug prednisone. i find it interesting that prednisone also increase sebum poduction: (i am not suggesting using it by this, just to show the connection between capiilary leakage which cause kidney problems to a drug which being used to fix capillary leakage and happen to seems like it decrease foxo and increase sebum.)

http://www.prednisonefacts.com/prednisone-and-acne/

Who is at Risk of Developing Acne with Prednisone Intake?

....Once ingested, prednisone mimics endogenous steroids in the body, and one of the primary effects of steroids is the increased production of sebum from the sebaceous glands of the skin. The oil then clogs the ducts and pores ultimately resulting in inflammation that leads to acne flaring. Prednisone also increases the basal metabolic rate and energy expenditure, which increases the core body temperature and sweat production - another factor that contributes to the development of acne.

Excellent information here and I believe what I'm reading however due to the extreme nature of Accutane and the carnage it produces throughout the body I'm not sure that I can absorb vitamins and minerals ( supplements of any kind ) the same way as before. Its like when a desert finally receives a downpour of water after many years of drought - the water just runs away even though the ground desperately needs it ( my silly analogy for the day ) I feel that my stomach just doesn't absorb things like it once did. Maybe injecting things is the way to go ie B-Shots and stuff like that - anything just to have some more energy to gain some enjoyment from the day!!

In any case - Roaccutane induced irreversible proteinuria........yay that sounds encouraging!! Where the fuck do we go from there?????

3 hours ago, Luke89 said:

"Sexual dysfunction. Research suggests that taking SAMe in addition to antidepressants improves sexual dysfunction in men with depression."

- Webmd

 

I wonder why SSRIs cause sexual side effects but SAM-e might improve it if they both work on serotonin?

As I mentioned, SAM-e DID cause sexual dysfunction in me. I had no problem getting an erection, but very weak sensation and orgasms, so I quit it after using it for a few months. I'm reluctant to try it again even though it had such a positive effect on my mood. SAM-e is one of the few supplements I've taken that has powerful drug-like effects that I can really feel.

21 minutes ago, Accutainted4ever said:

 

As I mentioned, SAM-e DID cause sexual dysfunction in me. I had no problem getting an erection, but very weak sensation and orgasms, so I quit it after using it for a few months. I'm reluctant to try it again even though it had such a positive effect on my mood. SAM-e is one of the few supplements I've taken that has powerful drug-like effects that I can really feel.

Just wondering have you tried St Jons Wort?

So summarized all we really got is this: We probably need SAM-e,glycine and taurine supplementation + figuring out a fix to the issues accutane caused to those pathways etc so we need the supplements. And the theory that accutane is still in the body and active or inactive but becomes active if you find a way to get it out of its stored place and into the blood.(but not proof, alltho i dont disagree with the theory)

Taurine, glycine and SAMe are really good in my experience, but i didnt take SAM-e or glycine for long periods of time nor did i take a high dose of SAM-e. Even 200mg has a profound effect on me though.

Someone needs to get a SAM/SAH ratio test or methylation panel done to confirm the need for SAM-e supplementation and to confirm the theory that "that pathway is broken"

Testing SAM/SAH ratio:

Doctor's Data has this test.

But you have to treat the blood sample as soon as it's drawn or the test will be inaccurate.

The place that draws the blood has to have a phlebotomistthat willcentrifuge it and freeze it immediately before sending to Doctor's Data.

low SAM and high SAH = undermethylated (not enough methyl groups) (also low serotonin)

Also, if you're undermethylated and have low serotonin, taking folate or methylfolate can make depression worse due to it being a selective serotonin reuptake promoter. When it comes to depression, it's not the quantity of serotonin that matters. It's the reuptake rate.

high SAM and low SAH = overmethylated

--

Also, whole blood histamine can be checked as well. If it's low, you're overmethylated (too many methyl groups building up)

--

I'm going to be purchasing this book:

http://www.walshinstitute.org/nutrient-power.html

Walsh? That guy was a chemical engineer who"treated" and "experimented" on prisoners and autism patients.

2 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

Testing SAM/SAH ratio:

 

Doctor's Data has this test.

But you have to treat the blood sample as soon as it's drawn or the test will be inaccurate.

The place that draws the blood has to have a phlebotomistthat willcentrifuge it and freeze it immediately before sending to Doctor's Data.

low SAM and high SAH = undermethylated (not enough methyl groups) (also low serotonin)

 

https://www.doctorsdata.com/resources/uploads/sample_reports/Sample%20Report%20Methylation.pdf

i actually live pretty close to doctors data. im gonna get this test.

Just leaving this here.....

does anyone know how much is 6000mg of taurine is?

i have the bulk powder.

this was also from an accutane victim 

does anyone know if SAM-e has anti-histamine properties. It could help my mast cell activation which i had prior to accutane, but of course, accutane made it worse.

I can't really find anything on the relation of the two.

50 minutes ago, trantran83333 said:

Just leaving this here.....

does anyone know how much is 6000mg of taurine is?

i have the bulk powder.

this was also from an accutane victim

 

Just checked my bulk powder and itsays the flat 5ml scoop (1 teaspoon) is 3.7 g. So 1 and 2/3 teaspoon would be about 6g , or 6000 mg.

3 hours ago, marlin15 said:

does anyone know if SAM-e has anti-histamine properties. It could help my mast cell activation which i had prior to accutane, but of course, accutane made it worse.

 

I can't really find anything on the relation of the two.

http://secondopinionphysician.com/treat-elevated-histamine/

I'm sure this was posted already but if not:

Accutane, Methylation Block and Glycine N-Methyltransferase http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/accutane-methylation-block-and-glycine-n-methyltransferase.26042/

--------

Hey guys, sorry if I'm butting into your conversation, but has anyone on here experienced hair loss alongside a painful/burning/itching scalp? If so, have you had a scalp biopsy done or has your hair grown back? My fear is that this pain is caused by a scarring (and therefore permanent) form of hair-loss known as Cicatricial Alopecia. There was at least one study done that indicated this could be a likelihood: [Edited link out]

There is also mention of another study "Alterations of vitamin A metabolism and signaling in central, centrifugal, cicatricial alopecia patients" here from the same authors but with a different title. I haven't found the contents of this one anywhere: [Edited link out]

On 11/15/2015, 10:18:58, HaniaD said:

For those withseborrheic dermatitis, as well as the myriad of other problems, try sea salt.It really helps with the flaky, dry skin.

Baking soda in a paste with water removes the flakes, if you apply it to the areas with seb derm and let it sit for 10minutes before washing it off.

On 1/6/2016 at 8:36 AM, Branches said:

Hey guys, sorry if I'm butting into your conversation, but has anyone on here experienced hair loss alongside a painful/burning/itching scalp? If so, have you had a scalp biopsy done or has your hair grown back? My fear is that this pain is caused by a scarring (and therefore permanent) form of hair-loss known as Cicatricial Alopecia. There was at least one study done that indicated this could be a likelihood: [Edited link out]

There is also mention of another study "Alterations of vitamin A metabolism and signaling in central, centrifugal, cicatricial alopecia patients" here from the same authors but with a different title. I haven't found the contents of this one anywhere: [Edited link out]

 

I believe you can only get Cicatricial Alopecia diagnosed via a scalp biopsy. It would be nice if someone has already had this done after experiencing the accompanying symptoms I mentioned. This form of hair-loss seems likely to me, unfortunately.

I took isotretinoin a number of years ago and have had this problem ever since. My scalp hurts if I put pressure on it by, for example, wearing headphones and my scalp is often itchy/burning, especially when I don't wash my hair... unless, seemingly, I go a long time without washing it. Also my scalp hurts/burns when I re-position how my hair lies. My hair thinned significantly during/shortly after taking isotretinoin but the thinning has been much slower since then. I took 40mg per day for about 2.5 months (if I remember correctly) before stopping due to a bunch of debilitating side effects that still to this day have not gone away. I took Accutane about 8.5 years ago and have been living the dream ever since. I might have to accept that my hair is just one more thing that I'll likely never get back. Whelp, I'm depressed... Let me know! xD

my hairloss wasnt just on my head. it was my whole body,including eyebrows, so I dont think our hair loss from accutane fits in any of those alopecia categories. But it is interesting that they mention altered vitamin a metabolism and signaling as a cause of hair loss. mine didnt start until months after my treatment.

here you go https://etd.ohiolink.edu/ap/10?0::NO:10:P10_ETD_SUBID:103145 The mechanism by which dietary vitamin A regulates skin stem cells during hair cycling

https://thatvitaminmovie.com/movie/freescreening/

Great documentary. 14 day free screening.

Also, skip to 1:00:05 (1hr 5 sec in) to hear a brief sentence about what he says about vitamin A.

"Most vitamin research uses laboratory vitamins and they still work, with the exception of vitamin A"

Still waiting to get back test results. mainly curious in if I have a biotinidase deficiency. If not I have all the supplements for the rescue cocktail created by josef pitha and will begin taking those. if I dont feel like im making progress after a given amount of timeim going to look at vitamin c and d again.

Most animals are capable of creating their own vitamin c in times of illness of stress.Humans are the among the only ones that require they get it from their diet. Goats for example can make up to 14 grams of vitamin C per day! and also I still had problems with bad acid reflux with D3 even from a plant source. So I am going to give it one more shot with vitamin D2 and see if maybe my body will accept it better.

or last resort I could od on meth and shoot myself up with some HPBCD I bought on ebay.

Who here reacts terribly to Vitamin A in food to the point were it makes your side effects significantly worse,has dry skin, seb derm, cracking aching joints, dry brittle hair, feels like their body is a waste dump, cracked bleeding lips, inability to digest foods properly, dry eyes, light sensitivity wereby youcan't look atbright lights and who has spent a fortune on supplements to no avail, whilst getting continually worse?

11 minutes ago, Chico Esposito said:

Who here reacts terribly to Vitamin A in food to the point were it makes your side effects significantly worse,has dry skin, seb derm, cracking aching joints, dry brittle hair, feels like their body is a waste dump, cracked bleeding lips, inability to digest foods properly, dry eyes, light sensitivity wereby youcan't look atbright lights and who has spent a fortune on supplements to no avail, whilst getting continually worse?

Try this for your eye light sensitivity and some of your side effects for a few days and report back and Im not kidding.

Claritin...

16 minutes ago, Chico Esposito said:

Who here reacts terribly to Vitamin A in food to the point were it makes your side effects significantly worse,has dry skin, seb derm, cracking aching joints, dry brittle hair, feels like their body is a waste dump, cracked bleeding lips, inability to digest foods properly, dry eyes, light sensitivity wereby youcan't look atbright lights and who has spent a fortune on supplements to no avail, whilst getting continually worse?

What was your accutane dosage? How many months did you take it? How long ago did you take it?

How many liver flushes have you done total? Results from doing them?

Have you avoided as much vit A as possible for a long time?

Were these symptoms the same symptoms you experienced during accutane treatment?

Also, everyone please read my signature below and incorporate your own dosage into your own signature.

45 minutes ago, Chico Esposito said:

Who here reacts terribly to Vitamin A in food to the point were it makes your side effects significantly worse,has dry skin, seb derm, cracking aching joints, dry brittle hair, feels like their body is a waste dump, cracked bleeding lips, inability to digest foods properly, dry eyes, light sensitivity wereby youcan't look atbright lights and who has spent a fortune on supplements to no avail, whilst getting continually worse?

yep, youre methionine deficient too.

was browsing some forum about vitamin a hair loss and read this.

We are all different. I read an extremely complicated research article on an enzyme some people don't have that actually prevents the body from eliminating retinoic acid. Obviously, not all persons will experience symptoms of A-toxicity

quick google on enzyme eliminating retinoic acid and found this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730205/

CYP26A1 is the main liver CYP26 enzyme and is responsible for retinoic acid clearance in the liver

You guys know about this? looks like a whole nother rabbit hole

4 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

my hairloss wasnt just on my head. it was my whole body,including eyebrows, so I dont think our hair loss from accutane fits in any of those alopecia categories. But it is interesting that they mention altered vitamin a metabolism and signaling as a cause of hair loss. mine didnt start until months after my treatment.

here you go https://etd.ohiolink.edu/ap/10?0::NO:10:P10_ETD_SUBID:103145 The mechanism by which dietary vitamin A regulates skin stem cells during hair cycling

 

Oh yea, my hair loss is also over my entire body, including eyebrows, but I guess I only really noticed the burning/itching/pain on my scalp. My hair loss actually started the first day I took Accutane, within 24 hours of taking the first pill. Too bad I was an idiot ^__^ ah well, thanks for the link to that study. Interesting stuff!

Did/do you by chance experience the burning/itching/pain symptoms on your scalp? Thanks and good luck out there!