Does anyone here have red eyes like me? Could be your spleen, get it checked

7 hours ago, oli girl said:

I just wanted to say after 8 years of a nightmare from Accutane, I am grateful to still be going strong! I hope all of you had a wonder Turkey Day with your friends and family  

 How are you these days oli girl?

11 hours ago, trantran83333 said:

Does anyone here have red eyes like me? Could be your spleen, get it checked

Does your spleen have problems?

On Ž24Ž/Ž11Ž/Ž2015Ž Ž8Ž:Ž37Ž:Ž35Ž, trantran83333 said:

Just wondering, has anyone had their blood work done?

got mine back today, good news is everything is normal, bad news is I don't know wtf is wrong with me lol

Highlighted are my liver enzymes... And 2012 was the last time I was normal up until 2013 was when everything went downhill

 

You are from Adelaide, right?

On 11/23/2015, 2:52:57, trantran83333 said:

*blood results*

A few of your liver enzymes got worse since 2012.That's something to note. Did you change your diet or lifestyle for the worse since 2012 or do you believe it to be strictly caused by the accutane? Your liver enzymes do not need to be higher than the reference range to indicate a problem by the way. Most path labs just use the local population's results averaged together. (The normal people getting their blood taken (mostly unhealthy people).

One example is AST and ALT. The ref range usually goes from like 5 up to40 or 50 IU/L but I've seen doctors who say there is pathologywhen the enzymes are as low as23-25.

One thing to note is that AST isn't specific to the liver as ALT is. High AST could indicate cell death in other parts of your body.

Your LD seemselevated as well. Yours: 143-175 U/L

According to some sources, the normal Adult Range: 45 - 90 U/L

Again, reference ranges vary wildly among labs. Some may suggest higher is normal.

Pay attention to patterns as well. Yours seems to have gotten worse.

LDH (Lactic Acid Dehydrogenase)is an enzyme found in many body tissues, including the liver. Elevated levels of LDH may indicate liver damage. Increases are usually found in cellular death and/or leakage from the cell or in some cases it can be useful in confirming myocardial or pulmonary infarction (only in relation to other tests). Decreased levels of the enzyme may be seen in cases of malnutrition, hypoglycemia, adrenal exhaustion or low tissue or organ activity"

Remember, high levels of retinoic acid in the liver can cause extreme oxidation of the tissues and cell death as shown in the vitamin A toxicity youtube video I posted a while back.

When is your next liver & gallbladder flush? I'm actually experiencing increased energy and better digestion since my last flush a couple weeks ago. I should also mention that I startedtaking taurine 1-2g/day a few days ago as well.

Has anyone seriously thought about getting a lawyer?

I got some chart notes from my ole derm. They finally arrived. So i cracked the thick style yellow envelope open and looked at all of the information the doctor wrote before, as, and after "treatment"

Here are a few snaps i took. Not to hold onto the depression, but if these interest anyone please give them a read. I have been experiencing all of the mental sode effects listed in this warning pamplet from 2009.

[Edited image out]

11 hours ago, Accutainted4ever said:

 

You are from Adelaide, right?

Yeh I am, are you? If you are we should team up and file a lawsuit against laroche lol

On Ž11Ž/Ž27Ž/Ž2015Ž Ž6Ž:Ž09Ž:Ž07Ž, trantran83333 said:

 How are you these days oli girl?

On Ž11Ž/Ž27Ž/Ž2015Ž Ž6Ž:Ž09Ž:Ž07Ž, trantran83333 said:

 How are you these days oli girl?

I am doing okay! I still have my days, but things have been better once I got a official dx! I took a year off from the forum and others to have a break which is sometimes a good thing. I try to live life to the fullest everyday as I don't know when it might not be here... My dream has always been to travel the world, so my daughter is graduating this year and when she goes off to college that exactly what I am going to do  

I hope your doing well!

I really love hearing stuff that says - Roaccutane induced and the word "irreversible".......that just gives me so much faith yeah.....

Surely theseare grounds for us all to sue these mongrels for leading us to this position in life!!?

I have swollen legs and major varicose vein issues- not sure this whole taurine supplementing thing that everyone is tryingis the answer to ourproblems?

I'm really considering doing those water fasting detoxes..... Thats the last thing I can think to do till some Scientist/Doctor works out what the fuck we should do to fix this situation!?

Thanks for all the info to those doing great research - much appreciated!!

6 hours ago, GeekyPizzaFaceGirl said:

The possible side effects of accutane scared my parents and me. I want my acne gone but not at the price of becoming sick.

Then do not take acctuane

On 24 November 2015 8:07:35 pm, trantran83333 said:

Just wondering, has anyone had their blood work done?

got mine back today, good news is everything is normal, bad news is I don't know wtf is wrong with me lol

Highlighted are my liver enzymes... And 2012 was the last time I was normal up until 2013 was when everything went downhill

 

From Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alanine_transaminase

"Significantly elevated levels of ALT (SGPT) often suggest the existence of other medical problems such as viral hepatitis, diabetes, congestive heart failure, liver damage, bile duct problems, infectious mononucleosis, or myopathy, so ALT is commonly used as a way of screening for liver problems. Elevated ALT may also be caused by dietary choline deficiency. However, elevated levels of ALT do not automatically mean that medical problems exist. Fluctuation of ALT levels is normal over the course of the day, and they can also increase in response to strenuous physical exercise."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine#Physiological_functions

"Taurine has also been shown to help people with congestive heart failure by increasing the force and effectiveness of heart-muscle contractions"

This is backed up by tonnes of studies btw. The only reason I checked this out was because I notices ALT and AST were the markers that changes most drastically with accutane, and I'd already looked up taurine so when I read congestive heart failure I instantly linked it, whether correctly or incorrectly... Anyway, could mean nothing, just food for though. Thanks for the before and after TT83!

On another note why are so many sufferers Australian? I wonder if there are any differences between Roaccutane and Accutane, or if the prescribed amount differed? 

Over the years I've received emailsfrom many all over the worldwith side effects (even one in Pakistan) However,I think you'll see more US, UK, AUS, & CAN victimsbecause ofthe western markets being saturated withdrugs in general. It probably comes down to politics and just a more readily available free market for business (even at the expense of personal health). I know I've read that the Japanese ministry of health actually banned Accutane from being sold in their country after several casesof adverse effects and studying the drug themselves. It would be interesting if we had some genetic predisposition to Retinoid toxicity seeing as how some of us don't come from cold snowy climates (Switzerland) And we know the most amounts of Vit A are in the livers of Huskies, Polar bears, Cold water fish/whale. It is some evolutionary adaptation to survive in cold environments. Although this probably isn't the case as I'm sure there are adverse cases in the Swiss population themselves.

1 hour ago, Fchawk said:

 

From Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alanine_transaminase

"Significantly elevated levels of ALT (SGPT) often suggest the existence of other medical problems such as viralhepatitis,diabetes,congestive heart failure, liver damage,bile ductproblems,infectious mononucleosis, ormyopathy, so ALT is commonly used as a way of screening for liver problems. Elevated ALT may also be caused by dietarycholinedeficiency. However, elevated levels of ALT do not automatically mean that medical problems exist. Fluctuation of ALT levels is normal over the course of the day, and they can also increase in response to strenuous physical exercise."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine#Physiological_functions

"Taurine has also been shown to help people withcongestive heart failureby increasing the force and effectiveness of heart-muscle contractions"

This is backed up by tonnes of studies btw. The only reason I checked this out was because I notices ALT and AST were the markers that changes most drastically with accutane, and I'd already looked up taurineso when I read congestive heart failure I instantly linked it, whether correctly or incorrectly... Anyway, could mean nothing, just food for though. Thanks for the before and after TT83!

On another note why are so many sufferers Australian? I wonder if there are any differences between Roaccutane and Accutane, or if the prescribed amount differed?

It the same I was on 20mg a day.

it's relatively easy and cheap to get here packet of 60 is only $13 if I remember correctly. The government pays for the rest. I don't know how much they cost in America

1 hour ago, macleod said:

Over the years I've received emailsfrom many all over the worldwith side effects (even one in Pakistan) However,I think you'll see more US, UK, AUS, & CAN victimsbecause ofthe western markets being saturated withdrugs in general. It probably comes down to politics and just a more readily available free market for business (even at the expense of personal health). I know I've read that the Japanese ministry of health actually banned Accutane from being sold in their country after several casesof adverse effects and studying the drug themselves. It would be interesting if we had some genetic predisposition to Retinoid toxicity seeing as how some of us don't come from cold snowy climates (Switzerland) And we know the most amounts of Vit A are in the livers of Huskies, Polar bears, Cold water fish/whale. It is some evolutionary adaptation to survive in cold environments. Although this probably isn't the case as I'm sure there are adverse cases in the Swiss population themselves.

We need a great doctor to talk with him , we need a doctor who knows the bloody side of the accutane. But i never saw anyone. Anyways there is a university who makes search on post finasteride victims. If the study have done with succsess , they would find the real problem about us ! Accutane and Finasteride is in the same league. So i still have hope. Let's see what we can get !

On 11/24/2015 at 5:37 PM, trantran83333 said:

Just wondering, has anyone had their blood work done?

got mine back today, good news is everything is normal, bad news is I don't know wtf is wrong with me lol

Highlighted are my liver enzymes... And 2012 was the last time I was normal up until 2013 was when everything went downhill

 

Just been reading some studies and looking at various websites regarding liver damage, and I™ve noticed that your liver tests would potentially indicate ˜fatty liver™, which TTH2014 has already suggested could be a/the consequence of accutane for the people who suffer from persistent side effects. You™ve got evaluated ALT and slightly elevated AST

• œTypically elevations in liver enzymes “ whereby the level of ALT elevation is higher than the level of AST “ elevation could be an indicator of fatty liver or NASH (Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis)

• œTherefore, one can presume a diagnosis of fatty liver or NASH based on signs of insulin resistance, elevated ALT levels for a long duration, signs of fatty liver through imaging and exclusion of other causes of elevated ALT levels and fatty liver

Source: [Edited link out]

Fatty liver is also indicated by a mild pain of discomfort in the liver area (under your right rib). I™ve suffered from this since taking tane, and have had ultrasound scans on the area, and a various blood tests done (but not a full liver panel). 

Fatty liver itself isn™t a massive issue, but it develops into Cirrhosis which can be. Causes of Cirrhosis include¦

• œExcessive intake of vitamins “ such as vitamin A. Being fat-soluble, vitamin A is stored to a variable degree in the body (liver), making it more likely to cause toxicity when taken in excess amounts

Fatty liver develops as follows;

        Fatty Liver -> NASH (Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis) -> Cirrhosis 

Would be interesting to know if anyone suffering from accutane side effects has had a liver transplant. My guess would be this ˜cured™ them of their side effects. Obviously this is not really a realistic solution, but the root cause of the sides is almost certainly liver damage. 

Some interesting reading on [Edited link out] though for anyone who™s interested

Treatments for Fatty live, NASH, Cirrhosis?

Interestingly one suggested treatment for Cirrhosis is SAMe, which was used in a study a while back that showed mitigation of isotretinoin side effects when supplemented along with the drug in this study;

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/etd/13056

Study on the importance of SAMe (I know this has already been mentioned a number of times on this thread)

• S-Adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) exerts many key functions in the liver, including serving as a precursor for cysteine, 1 of 3 amino acids of glutathione--the major physiologic defense mechanism against oxidative stress

• The precursor of SAMe is methionine, one of the essential amino acids, which is activated by SAMe-synthetase (EC 2.5.1.6). Unfortunately, the activity of this enzyme is significantly decreased as a consequence of liver disease.

Something which Ive noticed in this study which is interesting is that methionine is apparently increased, and thus reduces SAMe. Ive been eating lots of brazil nuts to supplement methionine, but this I might hold off now..

• Because of decreased utilization, methionine accumulates and, simultaneously, there is a decrease in SAMe that acquires the status of an essential nutrient and therefore must be provided exogenously as a supernutrient to compensate for its deficiency

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12418503

Sounds like additional methionine should actually be avoided, and maybe SAMe takeninstead?

I've just ordered NAC which apparently increases production ofGlutathione, and sounds like taking that along with SAMe could be beneficial based on the above study. Continuing with taurine too for the foreseeable.

They aren't elevated though.

5 hours ago, Mike San said:

They aren't elevated though.

 

 

Yeah I misinterpreted the results! They actually look quite in range looking again. There is at least one study showing that isotretinoin raises AST and AST levels, however looking at one of these studies, it's not by a massive amount (but possibly enough to throw things out of balance). Would be very interesting if there was a follow up study to find out if any of the participants developed side effects from the drug, and whether they were the ones with elevated levels;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22714752

• Of the 130 patients who received isotretinoin between January and December 2009, only 70 were actually treated for 3 months or more and handed in the results of their laboratory tests. Of these 70 patients, 39 (55.7%) were female. The mean age of the women (23.9 years) was higher than the mean age of the men (20.1 years). There was a statistically significant increase in the levels of triglycerides (87.01 48.25 versus 105.32 48.76 mg/dL), AST (20.44 6.26 versus 24.38 11.92 U/L) and ALT (18.24 8.31 versus 23.34 20.03 U/L) performed prior to and 3 months or more after oral isotretinoin treatment. After treatment with oral isotretinoin, triglyceride levels had increased beyond the normal range in 11% of the patients, while 8.6% had elevated AST levels and 7.3% had increased ALT levels.

4 hours ago, Modeaa said:

 

"(Ro)accutane induced irreversible proteinuria

...(Ro)accutane is found to cause a statistically significant induction of TGF-beta1 in several independent studies. Six weeks of isotretinoin treatment caused a statistically significant 19% increase in suction blister fluid TGF-beta1 [1]. There are no measured values of the cumulative effect after 3-4 months exposure, which is common in acne-subjects. Various studies have shown that significantly increased TGF-beta1 correlate with with the amount of urinary protein excretion (proteinuria and albumineria),in adose, but also importantlytimedependent manner. This due to failure in the kidney, of renal proximal tubular protein reabsorbtion. This is of major importance, because a significant failure in reabsorbtion leads to the loss of important vitamins, hormones and amino-acids [2]."

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5119

If im reading this right, not only does accutane deplete taurine, it also downregulates the enzyme that is needed to produce it naturally from methionine and cysteine by inducing the TGF beta 1

Branched-chain amino acids inhibit the TGF-beta-induced down-regulation of taurine biosynthetic enzyme cysteine dioxygenase in HepG2 cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24553827

Taurine deficiency has been suggested to contribute to the pathogenesis and complications of advanced hepatic diseases. The molecular basis for a low level of taurine associated with hepatic failure is largely unknown. Using carbon tetrachloride (CCl4)-induced cirrhotic rat model, we found that the activity and expression of cysteine dioxygenase (CDO), a rate-limiting enzyme in taurine synthesis, were significantly decreased in the liver of these rats. To investigate the underlying mechanisms for the suppression, we examined the effects of pathological cytokines on CDO expression in human hepatoma HepG2 cells. Among the several cytokines, transforming growth factor- (TGF-), one of the key mediators of fibrogenesis, suppressed Cdo1 gene transcription through the MEK/ERK pathway. Finally, we further examined potential effects of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) on CDO expression, as it has been reported that oral BCAA supplementation increased plasma taurine level in the patients with liver cirrhosis. BCAA, especially leucine, promoted Cdo1 gene transcription, and attenuated TGF--mediated suppression of Cdo1 gene expression. These results indicate that the low plasma level of taurine in advanced hepatic disease is due to decreased hepatic CDO expression, which can be partly attributed to suppressive effect of TGF- on Cdo1 gene transcription. Furthermore, our observation that BCAA promotes Cdo1 expression suggests that BCAA may be therapeutically useful to improve hepatic taurine metabolism and further suppress dysfunctions associated with low level of taurine in hepatic diseases.

4 hours ago, Modeaa said:

4 hours ago, Modeaa said:

 

there where talking about a possible methionine deficiency due to hyper glycine n-methyl-transferase enzyme which accutane cause in the liver. the first link you puted mention it too.

the second link didn't seem to be in related to accutane, but in this problem that it describe as decreased methionine utilization i wonder if beside SAMe just andenosylcoblamin might work just as well or even better because it could balance the methionine to adenosyl ratio, in case that adenosyl deficency was the cause for the reduced SAMe and that the excess methionin might have consequences.

 

 

more cases for P5P and taurine supplementaion:

Effect of vitamin B6 deficiency on the synthesis and accumulation of S-adenosylhomocysteine and S-adenosylmethionine in rat tissues.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11575573

We infer that the alteration of B6 metabolism, especially the reduction of PLP contents in liver and thymus, caused by the B6 deficiency, resulted in accumulation of SAH as well as reduction of SAM and the SAM/SAH ratio. The reduction of the SAM/SAH ratio was due to a block in the catabolism of methionine via the trans-sulfuration pathway. These may lead to inhibition of transmethylation reaction of DNA, RNA and protein, the synthesis and function of thymic lymphocyte and result in damage to tissues.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18547794

Furthermore, the key cofactor of transsulfuration, pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, significantly declined in the plasma after a week of the ethanol intervention, whereas an increase was observed in brain tissue. Under taurine supplementation, some recoveries were shown by delaying taurine depletion to Week 2, increasing the SAM/SAH ratio and elevating plasma and brain levels of vitamin B6 in Week 2. In conclusion, daily consumption of 30% alcohol interfered with SCAA metabolism, thus decreasing taurine's role in neurotransmission. The possible mechanism involved might be that ethanol interrupts the production of cysteine, which is the upstream SCAA of taurine, thus decreasing the homocysteine level. Additionally, taurine supplementation delayed this process.

Hey guys, many of us with the erectile dysfunction Problem. What Do you guys think of increasing SRD5a1? The Gene/Enzyme for dht.. Some report good feelings after drinking alcohol. Now I have read, that it increases SRD5a1 wich is significantly reduced by accutane... Think about it and let me know  I don't know if There are natural ways to Do this. On Amazon.com there is real human SRD5a1 but very extensive! It could be, that together we get back our good feelings. Maybe.. This Forum helps me a Bit in my Situation. Greetings 

I say go straight for the liquor

1 hour ago, AlanTookAccutaneWow said:

I say go straight for the liquor

But trying SRD5a1 he won't be drunk.

1 hour ago, manalesenicola said:

What Do you guys think of increasing SRD5a1? The Gene/Enzyme for dht..

Sounds interesting. We should find people who tried it and shared their effects after SRD5a1.

Has anyones oil returned after treatment? its been 5 years post accutane and my skin has been dry as a desert

7 hours ago, manalesenicola said:

Hey guys, many of us with the erectile dysfunction Problem. What Do you guys think of increasing SRD5a1? The Gene/Enzyme for dht.. Some report good feelings after drinking alcohol. Now I have read, that it increases SRD5a1 wich is significantly reduced by accutane... Think about it and let me know  I don't know if There are natural ways to Do this. On Amazon.com there is real human SRD5a1 but very extensive! It could be, that together we get back our good feelings. Maybe.. This Forum helps me a Bit in my Situation. Greetings 

Taurine enhances the sexual response and mating ability in aged male rats.