Loling at the people commenting on gallbladder flushes being fake. Some people seem to get offended by advice offered on this forum.

Does the gallbladder not hold bile? Does ingesting fat not trigger a bile dump? Do laxatives like magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt)not allow the bowels to empty quickly before absorption takes placepreventing enterohepatic recirculation of bile?

And yes, calcified stones exist but that's a small percentage of the population. One of the goals of the flush is to completely eliminate bile from the body.That's where a large amount of fat-soluble toxins are stored (andaccutane. This is confirmed in the studies linked below; vit A stores inyour liver predominantly after all).

Also, the bile that's excretedis not olive oil. I've compared the color of the olive oil I ingested with my bile and it's not even remotely similar. If you'd like to see a picture, I'd happily comply. Some people do liver flushes with brown or golden coloredoils and yet they still somehow get out green bile blobs. Explain that.

Also, that Lancet article proves absolutely nothing. I'm not going to go into detail because I don't have the energy or the eye moistureto but if you'd read Andreas Moritz' book, he has an entire chapter on that article. Actually, I just found the chapter online: read it fully, otherwise stay out of the conversation: link

If you have never tried a liver flush before, I don't think you have a right to give an opinion on it's validity. Your uneducated statementson the topicmay prevent someone from trying it and possibly prevent that person from doing something that MIGHT cure his or her side effects. Would you want to be responsible for preventing a person from getting well? You can choose to not participate in trying to heal yourself but don't try to stop others.

Before posting anything else in regards to liver flushing, ask yourself what your intention is. My goalis to help people. If you heard of a way to cure yourself (even if it only has, say, a 5% success rate), wouldn't you like to at least hear about it? Let people decide on their own, from their own experiences and research. No dogma necessary.

EDIT: here's a helpful post I just found: link

There areso many studies showing that drugs can be constantly recycled via EHR.
link- Astudy hypothesizing that the recycling of bile can prolong how long drugs affect you (due to metabolites also being absorbed along with the bile).
"In general, enterohepatic recirculation may prolong the pharmacological effect of certain drugs and drug metabolites. Of particular importance is the potential amplifying effect of enterohepatic variability in defining differences in the bioavailability, apparent volume of distribution and clearance of a given compound. Genetic abnormalities, disease states, orally administered adsorbents and certain coadministered drugs all affect enterohepatic recycling."

Read this entire study's synopsis. It's excellent.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9523732
"The presence of unchanged Adriamycin in the bile and urine of the receivers suggested absorption of the parent drug from the intestine of the receivers. Overall, we estimated that about 22% of the dose injected to the donors was absorbed from the intestine of the receivers. Taken together, these findings clearly demonstrate a significant role for enterohepatic recirculation of Adriamycin and its metabolites, which may contribute to the ability of these compounds to induce cumulative cardiac damage and/or to increase the efficacy of Adriamycin."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7600915
"Up to 20% of the M3G dose was recovered in bile after 90 min, suggesting that systemic M3G can gain access to the liver and contribute to EHR. Both mean residence time and steady-state volume of distribution were significantly greater in intact rats, presumably because of EHR."

http://www.jlr.org/content/7/1/3.full.pdf
"Enterohepatic circulation of biliary components, well-known for cholesterol, bile acids (31), and bile pigments (32), has now been shown to include metabolites of retinol."
*Retinol is vitamin A in case you were wondering.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/101/9/1169.full.pdf
"In the final experiment 25.3% of the activity infused into the duodenum as 14C-labeled biliary vitamin A metabolites was excreted in the bile in 24 hours, indicating substantial recycling of vitamin A metabolites from the intestine to the liver of sheep."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2861992
"..comparisons of certain trends in the pharmacokinetic profiles gave some possible insights into the role of biliary excretion andenterohepaticcycling on the disposition ofisotretinoin. The data forisotretinoinand 4-oxoisotretinoin coupled with the total carbon-14 data suggest that the oral dose of 14C-isotretinoinis absorbed to a similar extent by the healthy subjects and T-tube patients, whereas T-tube patients clear the drug more rapidly. The biliary excretion and possibleenterohepaticcirculation ofisotretinoinand its metabolites may have significant impact on the pharmacokinetic profile ofisotretinoinin man."

Simply do a pubmed search for "enterohepatic circulation" and "retinoids" or "isotretinoin" and see what you get.

I beg anyone toread all of these studies I posted above and Mr. Moritz' breakdown of the Lancet study and try to argue that gallbladder flushing is useless. Please. Entertain me. Enlighten us all.

I tried LF in hope to get better. You just crushed my hope by telling me it's all in my head that I feel better, and people who comment that I look better and the yellow in my eyes has decreased, when I haven't even told them that I'd done liver flushing.

This forum is getting downright insane

It's not that bad. Just two bad apples mainly, and a couple users putting down one for recommending a process he/she says benefits them. It should all be sorted once we get our own site.

It's not necessary all in your head! What I mean was that those liver flush don't work by flushing gallstones, it's bogus. BUT it doesn't mean that those liver flush have no benefits at all, like I said I've read many posts people claim that those liver flushes helped them. So, if they do not flush gallstones I'm just searching for reasons why they may have been beneficial. Placebo? Or maybe they help in bile flow or something? After experiences with medicines for acne I'm just much more careful, and try to understand medicine/procedure/whatever before I jump into it. What I suggest was that you do ultrasonography before and after liver flushes and controft results of those tests. Maybe I'm wrong, and those liver flushes really expel gallstones? With results of those tests I would say no more, trust me :). But at the other hand, it would mean that those flushes are real danger, because gallstone could stuck in bile duct .I just don't know why people behave sometimes so defensive when I try to understand how exactly work something they claim it helped them

to be honest, I did say I had constipation the day I performed the flush, the next day was a nightmare. I felt something stuck under/in the middle of my chest, possition wherepeople have gallbladder attacks. It really hurt and uncomfortable. I couldn't even stand up straight. I did have a bowel movement in the morning, the day after the initial flush but no stones came out. Not until after 3pm I felt the need to go again and that was when I passed a few stones. I felt relief straight away. Went home and took colon cleanse, and after 6 pm I went again and saw more stones,this time much more. Before bed I went again and saw less green stones but also saw some weird shaped ones in a tan colour...

that was two days ago, yesterday all I had was green beans and rice for dinner.

I felt a little tired today. A different kind of tired,so I mixeda teaspoon of Sole (Himalayan salt & water mixture) half a lemon in one litre of warm water upon awakening. Had basmati rice with chicken, endive cucumber and tomato for lunch.
I felt better after that, maybe has something to do with electrolyte imbalance and that my body needed some meat/protein. Haven't had meat since last week.

i have been suffering for 3 years of this thing. I will try anything to get better.
It's easier these days because I understand a little bit more of what's happening to my body. I learned to listen to my body.
I will keep updating my progress, but what works for me may not work for everyone and who knows it could be a placebo effect like you said.
This is my first time after all and I just wanted to share my experience.

For those in the UK, have you heard of Dr. Chow? He was part of the AccutaneRegulatory Hearings back in 2000 and has treated many affected by accutanein the U.K. Do you know if he's still treating patients?

Interesting, I wouldn't mind flying there to get treated. I'm so desperate to be normal again. 
How to get in contact with him 

He was a chairman of the Accutane/Roaccutane Action Group, but the last update from them is from 2011, so I'm not sure whether it's still going...

Is someone working on creating a new forum? I think it would be very beneficial to have an entire forum dedicated to recovering from accutane usage - one with multiple threads. Having every single conversation in a single thread is chaotic to say the least.

I'm sorry if you feeled before that I don't believe you or that you feeled better after those flushes, it's maybe because my poor english skills. I never target you, but only part of this method itself. It's not flushing gallstones, but maybe it's beneficial in some other way. And like you said, you feeled tired after that, I think that this method can be also harmful for those that are in bad health, it's seems like it's more beneficial for those who already feel good to feel better. BTW what I understand you have digestive issues? I have to, because of several courses of antibiotics. Did you try water fasting for a day or two? I think it's safer, and it's giving time for you digestive system to normalize. Always fasting for a day, I feel better for a next few days. Also don't underestimate role of mind in digestive issues. I think that our thoughts and state of mind correlate with health in almost every way, but with diggestion especially. Even healthy people have diggestive issues before important meeting or exams. I was sceptic, but meditations and afirmations really helped in my diggestive issues, more than any supplements.

I would suggest heavy drinking, to repair the long term damage from accutane.

Epigenetic side-effects of common pharmaceuticals (2009)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19501473

"An example of an indirectly acting drug is isotretinoin, which has transcription factor activity. A two-tier mechanism is postulated for indirect effects in which acute exposure to a drug influences signaling pathways that may lead to an alteration of transcription factor activity at gene promoters. This stimulation results in the altered expression of receptors, signaling molecules, and other proteins necessary to alter genetic regulatory circuits. With more chronic exposure, cells adapt by an unknown hypothetical process that results in more permanent modifications to DNA methylation and chromatin structure, leading to enduring alteration of a given epigenetic network. Therefore, any epigenetic side-effect caused by a drug may persist after the drug is discontinued."

The effect of different doses of isotretinoin on pituitary hormones (2015)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25721216

There are alot of smart people in this thread, and we definitely have numbers. I'm surprised there havent been any breakthroughs yet.

Hello everyone, i'm a 18 years old French Boy who suffer from roaccutane side effetcs ( lack of libido, ED, dry eyes, pain in my back, depression etc. )
I read the whole pages, and i totally agree that a raw diet plus supllements and activity like meditation, yoga, sports will definitely help. Cleanse our kidney, liver, bowels, also. Accutane Isotherapy Also ( i did not read a lot about it, I haven't tried yet but some French people with health issues from Accutane improved a lot with Accutane isotherapy ( which is a kind of homeopathy ).
Our body is the only healer. If you put it in best condition he will definitely heal our health issues.
I just want to share a potentially solution that Nobody mentioned so far, which is Glandular's.
We know that accutane affect our brain, our endocrine system, our adrenal glands and other part .
So, with a No stress way of life, raw diet, suplements who could help ( too long to mention all of them but there's a lot )a clean bowel/kidney/liver, Vit B12 ( and others ), Isotherapy, Herbs like Ashwaganda, Alfafa, Astragalus ( which really support our endocrine system ) and finally Glandular's to " repair " damages from roaccutane , there's no way we can't come back to health again
I findthe more important glandular's are: kidneys, adrenal gland's and definitely hypothalamus ( we can buy them in shop like ourbotanicals from Dr Morse, Swanson, iHerb etc. ) I want to clean my body and wait a bit after my raw diet changes to start with glandulars. But I was surprised that nobody had this idea before. I hope it will help us

Biology in general is so complex. By comparison, Physics and the mathematics that physicists use, is much more precise compared to the intricacies of biology. If there was to be a breakthrough, it would be by a team of molecular biologists and other scientists all closely working together with doctors and patients gathering data, which would number in the thousands and funding would be in the millions. If it is indeed gene transcription, and somehow we were able to get the research to find the proof (unlikely) the next step would be to formulate the development of a possible cure (doubtful). At least in our lifetime.

If you notice the dates on the articles I posted, and some of the other articles in the medical archives, doctors are just now (2009-2015) starting to speculate and propose possible thesis on various side effects. No one is really gathering to look into these claims, as far as I know, except for us. There isn't that much of a spotlight on this compared to the thousands of other ailments humans have (cancer, alzheimers, parkinsons, etc.)

You also have to factor in the politics involved. Not too many scientists are going to be signing up to take on Roche pharmaceuticals, one of the biggest, if not the biggest, pharmaceutical companies in the world. They sponsor and influence so many hospitals and laboratories (if not all of them). They aren't exactly going to prove themselves liable for anything. A government and court order would have to command them.

Macleod , please check your private message box .
we need to talk.. im scared of epignetic changes because i have persisting low semen volume , and it happened with only 100mg of accutane..

More onepigenetic changes isaround page 222 ofthis thread, it's very interesting

just thought i'd share, and in no way am i promoting or advertising something like some people do here, which is why i won't include the source.

I ordered some MK-677, a HGH secretagogue, and 3 days in, i'm LOVING IT. Obviously not a cure, but the improvement in sleep is remarkable, the energy it gives is outstanding, and the sense of well being is incredible. The only downside is it really makes you hungry.

I mentioned to Macleod about SARMS like LGD and Ostarine regarding muscle mass, but I decided not to go with them because i hear of suppression (the last thing we need). Although MK-677 is listed under SARMS (don't know why) it is in no way a SARM. It an an orally active HGH peptide. Nothing to do with testosterone. I've been reading that these research liquids are quite the controversy and the FDA are working on a bill to make them illegal. Figures. We can put poison in our bodies but we can't use something that actually may be beneficial.

Also, there are PUBMED studies on MK-677 in elderly people regarding bone and muscle effects. I have yet to workout on it, but I am sure it will be of some help. Again, 3 days is wayyyy too early to make definitive conclusions, but thus far, i am pretty happy. Added bonus, it could help skin.

The label says not for human consumption, but the seller has to say that under law, because it is still under testing. If i ingested accutane, i knew this could only be better. I'll follow up with this in a week.

FYI, this is areply Ijust enteredon another thread but am pasting it here as well:

I will try and hit main points to keep this short. Its been 8 years since I took Accutane and I am still searching for answers. I have tried 5-HTP andSam-e. Others I do not remember. Since you are a neuroscience major let me try and explain the stages I went through. While I was consuming the drug (2 months) I just felt like I was out of it. "Space Cadet" is the term I like. Brain fog, I felt very weak, and lost weight. I discontinued the drug because of how I was feeling. Once I was off the drug (~month 3) is when depression and anxiety hit. I had never experienced this before in my life. Asking my boss a routine question became an enormous task accompanied with a sweaty forehead, butterflies in my stomach, etc. At one point I started having uncontrollable, recurring thoughts going through my head. Again, nothing of this sort had happened to me previously. First thing when I would awake in the morning there would be one or two seconds where I would have this feeling like I was forgetting something.... something was missing. And then BAM the recurring thoughts would begin. One day it might be a song repeating over and over and over in my head, another day it might be voices of people I know. It felt as if I had stepped from my conscious mind to the sub-conscious. As if I were now aware of all the things going on in my brain that I would normally never "know" about. Of course when I called my Derm. she said the Accutane was out of my system and that it had nothing to do with it. At this point I was planning my escape because I was sure I had lost it. Luckily I became aware of the natural health movement and the idea that our bodies can heal themselves given the proper environment. I began juicing copious amounts of fruits and vegetable in an attempt to detox my body and return to my pre-Accutane state. Things seemed to slowly improve over the months and years that have past. I do still suffer from depression, but my main battle now is fatigue, mental clarity and physical pain. Probably around the 2nd year post Accutane I became gluten intolerant/sensitive. Eating gluten containing foods resulted in extreme fatigue. I cut gluten and naturally replaced it with corn products (tortillas). Soon I was sensitive to corn. Fast forward to today and I can not eat gluten, dairy, grains, legumes, and eggs. My diet now is termed Autoimmune Paleo. If I eat things I am sensitive to my fatigue is worsened and is accompanied with joint/hip/bone pain. Adhering to the Functional Medicine protocol has helped a lot with me being able to function. A large focus is healing/improving gut health.I do still have depression that seems to come in waves. I feel emotionally numb. I have brain fog and fatigue90% of the time. Physical pain is managed through diet and lifestyle.Accutane changed my personality. I have a terrible memory now and am always looking up how to spell common words.

@ Saffron

Ok, I will. Sorry, I receive a lot of messages.

@Marlin

I'm game. I can't wait to try some, although I have read that GH can affect my intracranial hypertension, which I also have as a result of Accutane.

@Scott242

Welcome to the forum. This thread is the little corner we have here on this site and if you start from page 1 you will run into several who have had and are going through the exact same thing you are. No need to post in other threads as we try to keep the site in whole as fair and balanced as to not attempt to scare away any individuals with severe acne who may be considering Accutane. Also, try not to engage Lucas89 or AlantookAccutane in direct conversation as they are not beneficial to this thread in any way and are currently the resident trolls.

Dear Lucas,

please show me!
I have seen nobody who developed the same exact effect who have never taken medication. All in one, in a short period of time.
impotence
penile shrinkage/ dry, disconnected,dead penis
tinnitus
dark blindness/light sensitivity/double vision
tremor
hair loss/dry hair/thin hair
muscle twitching
panic attacks, suicidal state
depression
fatigue, physicaly feel old

It is so obvious that I hada serious adverse reaction to this drug. It is not a side effect, it is a damage I am talking about. It is poisoning.

You are just feeding into him...Every post you respond to, every side effect you list, is giving him that much more amusement.

Macleod is not a troll , he is good person and he tries to help people in here , stop starting a war here and help people..