And one other thing - I've seen that many people here consider Accutane and drugs overall as they were made by the devil. My health is in ruin because of antibiotics but I don't consider them BAD. I don't even consider Accutane bad. They are just misused. I was on 4 courses of antibiotics, it was simply to much. If you have moderate or severe acne dermatologist should give you one course of antibiotics maximum - if you one of the lucky ones and your acne clear then that's fantastic but if not then there is no point in trying over and over again(one of definition of madness is doing all the time the same and expect different outcomes). Accutane? Sure! If you have REALLY severe acne to the point where you can function properly. But I'm talking about really severe acne, cases when acne affects even your overall health. And what's most important is that dermatologist should try to find your reason why you have acne or why your acne is so bad. I've seen posts here and all over the internet that acne is because of toxins or diet or something like that but it was always a simple answer. But there is no simple answer in acne. Hell, there are even different types of acne. And there are several reasons why someone develops acne or why develops acne that is worse than other. Hormons, diet, toxins, environment, stress, bad cosmetics, washing to rarely, washing to often, rubbing your face too often, genetics. For example my bad acne comes from my hormons - that's why I never had single pimple on my cheeks but tons of big ones around my face(and that's also why I'm almost bald at 25 but I don't care about hair). Genetics also was a reason in my case - my mom had acne when she was younger, and my father had a high level of testosterone(that's also why he is bald). But environment also play a crucial role - if I'm working in dirt then I know I'm gonna be full of pimples next days. And what's funny diet plays no role in my case. For some others it can be totally different, maybe somebody have acne just because he is eating shit, and somebody other because he works in coal mine. Dermatologists should be like detectives and find cause/causes of acne in every case, not treat all people the same. Antibiotics and accutane should be used to but only when they really should be used, it's not for all. But there is no money in telling someone that he should work in other environment or changing diet.

P.S And about antidepressants - they really helps with my digestions, but right now I'm taking very low dose, so low that they don't have impact on my mind, but have on my GI tract. It's worth trying. Just don't make the same mistakes and trust doctor's too much, find someone that will prescribe you very low dose to see if it's working. It's a little bit like with accutane - I was shocked when I saw how high dose some dermatologist prescribe! At the other hand I know some people that had very severe acne(like I said - when you can't normal function) but were presribed very low dose long-term and it helped. There is saying "dose makes the poison" and it's almost entirely true.

 

 

I apologize for those who've read my similar post elsewhere on acne.org...I have been supplementing with Beta Carotene and it has been incredible for overcoming Accutane side effects in the long-term. Since taking the drug in '91, I have suffered from anxiety and depression, sexual dysfunction, joint pain...the list goes on. Because of the fact that Isotretinoin or Accutane is a vitamin A derivative and is responsible for all of the miserable side effects that have plagued me for years, I never thought that supplementing with vitamin A was a good idea. However, many of my side effects I found out were similar to vitamin A deficiency! Poor night vision, leukoplakia, irritability, low energy, etc. Since taking Beta Carotene in doses ranging between 10-40,000 IU per day, all of the psychological and sexual symptoms have improved a great deal. I still have some joint pain but I am taking other supps for this that really help. Beta C. is not a miracle cure-all, but it will make your life better than anything else I believe. I take a food based form that is made from carrot concentrate, lemon grass, spirulina. Somehow, just eating carrots on their own hasn't been effective in the same way.

Health and Best,

 

Matt Chiron

Too much beta-carotene or butter/liver makes me feel ill like most people here. My most worrisome side effect from taking accutane is that it lowered my testosterone significantly. I believe this was caused by disrupting vitamin A metabolism in the testes.

However, I've found that occasionally, low doses of carrot juice produce a mild testosterone like effect; Voice deepens, muscle tone improves, etc. This is hit or miss though and eating carrots alone doesn't do anything so, to get an effect it seems that I have to rapidly spike my blood levels with beta-c to saturate the receptors. again, lower doses only like a few sips of carrot juice.

I wonder if consistently taking low doses of beta-carotene might help here? I'm looking at supplements, but they all seem to have 500% RDA doses. Other supps like spirulina and chlorella have much lower amounts of beta-c per capsule.

I've learned to live with most of the side effects like dry eyes, mouth and achy joints but the depression, low motivation, fatigue and lethargy caused by the low T is killing me.

I'm desperate to fix this.

Edit: I also want to add that I gained 40-50 lbs after taking accutane in 2001 and it's hard to lose it and even harder to keep it off with low T.

 

 

 

I apologize for those who've read my similar post elsewhere on acne.org...I have been supplementing with Beta Carotene and it has been incredible for overcoming Accutane side effects in the long-term. Since taking the drug in '91, I have suffered from anxiety and depression, sexual dysfunction, joint pain...the list goes on. Because of the fact that Isotretinoin or Accutane is a vitamin A derivative and is responsible for all of the miserable side effects that have plagued me for years, I never thought that supplementing with vitamin A was a good idea. However, many of my side effects I found out were similar to vitamin A deficiency! Poor night vision, leukoplakia, irritability, low energy, etc. Since taking Beta Carotene in doses ranging between 10-40,000 IU per day, all of the psychological and sexual symptoms have improved a great deal. I still have some joint pain but I am taking other supps for this that really help. Beta C. is not a miracle cure-all, but it will make your life better than anything else I believe. I take a food based form that is made from carrot concentrate, lemon grass, spirulina. Somehow, just eating carrots on their own hasn't been effective in the same way.

Health and Best,

 

Matt Chiron

 

Too much beta-carotene or butter/liver makes me feel ill like most people here. My most worrisome side effect from taking accutane is that it lowered my testosterone significantly. I believe this was caused by disrupting vitamin A metabolism in the testes.

 

However, I've found that occasionally, low doses of carrot juice produce a mild testosterone like effect; Voice deepens, muscle tone improves, etc. This is hit or miss though and eating carrots alone doesn't do anything so, to get an effect it seems that I have to rapidly spike my blood levels with beta-c to saturate the receptors. again, lower doses only like a few sips of carrot juice.

 

I wonder if consistently taking low doses of beta-carotene might help here? I'm looking at supplements, but they all seem to have 500% RDA doses. Other supps like spirulina and chlorella have much lower amounts of beta-c per capsule.

 

I've learned to live with most of the side effects like dry eyes, mouth and achy joints but the depression, low motivation, fatigue and lethargy caused by the low T is killing me.

 

I'm desperate to fix this.

 

Edit: I also want to add that I gained 40-50 lbs after taking accutane in 2001 and it's hard to lose it and even harder to keep it off with low T.

I discovered Moringa a while ago. It is the most nutrient-dense botanical on earth and is as close to a natural multivitamin as you can find in one dose. You'll get beta-c plus almost every other vitamin, mineral and amino acid in a generous but not over-dosage. I shake some powder up in a small jar with water and shoot it down. Also I take a liquid kelp form of iodine at night which balances the thyroid. This has helped enormously to stave off depression. Hope that helps.

hey guys does anyone have any symptoms like mine?

My life sucks so bad right now I emailed Loren Lockman, this is what I said. I'm extremely optimistic that the water fast could be a cure! I'm sorry if thats TMI but my ibs is so bad...

"Hello,

Earlier I watched a video made by Loren "How accutane destroys lives", since I watched this video I cannot stop thinking about everything he said. I feel extremely optimistic that I can maybe repair the damage I have been caused by taking accutane.

Some background - I was scouted by a modelling agency in September 2013, got very minor acne before I met with my agency again in December '13, as you may already know the pressure for clear skin in the industry is high. Basically when I visited Paris I was met with cruel comments from my agent about how my skin was bad and I had to do something about it or else I would be dropped. Stupidly, I decided to keep asking my doctor to prescribe me accutane, which I began my 6 month course in January 2014 - worst decision of my life - I was on 60mg for 6 months. Ever since I finished I seen a rapid spiral of my health. I've had severe depression, still suffer from extreme anxiety, fatigue, thin and dry hair, dry lips, dry skin but most upsetting is the fact I have IBS, I always have diarrhoea and soft stools and I feel like I am going to s**** myself constantly (I know this might be hard to believe). I'm 20 years old and I've been off accutane for a year now I just want to repair my body. I was off work on sick leave since january this year for 6 months and I have recently just got a job. Please be honest is there a way I can ever go back to being the healthy person I once was, or am I stuck like this. I know this might be sad to read but I genuinely don't think I want to live much longer if I have to continue like this, I genuinely feel like I am living in a nightmare. I do everything I can, I don't eat any dairy, no red meat, only fish and gluten free food, nuts and seeds, fruit and salads, I quit smoking, I very rarely drink, don't do drugs.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions, I would be forever grateful."

There's no magic cure, I have something similiar to IBS for 4 years. Water fasting is a good thing to try, although I would suggest go easy - first day or two on fasting and observe how body is reacting. And don't hope for too much because you might be disapointed.Probiotics can also work for IBS - I don't have luck with them but there are many people who said that they helped them. But most of them had to try many brands to find the best for them. Flax seed is also VERY good for diggestions issues so I would strongly suggest to try - if it won't help then at least it won't do any harm. But very important in IBS is also psychic. Stress is only making it worse, and depression is - in essential - constant stress. Exercise can also be beneficial to people with IBS. And it's also important what tests were made? Maybe it's not IBS but problem with gallbladder or something else. Ultrasonography is cheap and extremely safe test(but also not very reliable but). Blood test are also important, because if there is extreme fatigue then maybe there is problem in low magnesium etc. With IBS there is long way to heal but there is also good(or not-so-bad) thing - at least it's not getting worse, it's not a disease like MS that will take something from you again and again. And remission is also possible, hell people with Crohn have remission, so why not people with IBS?

Again .. Have anyone seen a endocrinologist or a urologist to see if theres everything all right with the hormonal system and the testicles balls and stuff????

You all seen pretty fucked up to be tring just online and empirica stuff.

People witj cancer and other serious diseases sell their houses to pay for the treatment and i dont think what some of the guys here are experiencing to be any diferentes. Do whatever you can!!!! Dont give up like losers, dont let this shit put you on the ground !

Drug addicts that spent their lifes using shit can recover some people went to problema like cancer and strokes and are living normal lifes, but they doesnt just searched online some supplements and magic" regioes they went after it no matter how much money and effort it costed

Our money and effort should be going toward forcing the truth out about Accutane, and doing whatever it takes to push valid scientific studies to take place.

No doctor can remedy something which no one yet understands.

I have. Everything is within the normal range. LH, FHS, prolactin, SHBG, DHEA, IGF-1, thyroid all normal..well, low normal. But Doctor's see nothing wrong with it. Testosterone hovers around the 200's. If there was a problem with the testicles, LH would be high. If the problem was in the pituitary or hypothalamus, LH would be very low. But everything reads as "normal." Doctors don't know what to do, other than use TRT.

I saw an endo. He went as far as to say that a total T of 230 something was perfectly normal.

Edit: I wanted to add something. People here have been asking if anyone has gotten a liver biopsy. Well, I have. I took accutane in 2001. The biopsy was done in...2008 or 2009. I was seeing a diagnostician. He called him the Doctor House of this place. Anyways, he agreed I had some sort of systemic disease because I was all fucked up. Mind you, at this time, I still didn't think Accutane had any play here, but I suspected it. Doctor was guessing hemochromatosis or maybe copper overload. All they found was Hydropic change in the hepatocytes or vacuolar degeneration. Just means something had damaged the liver but there was no necrosis or fibrosis. What did the damage? Accutane I suspect.

Again .. Have anyone seen a endocrinologist or a urologist to see if theres everything all right with the hormonal system and the testicles balls and stuff????

 

I have. Everything is within the normal range. LH, FHS, prolactin, SHBG, DHEA, IGF-1, thyroid all normal..well, low normal. But Doctor's see nothing wrong with it. Testosterone hovers around the 200's. If there was a problem with the testicles, LH would be high. If the problem was in the pituitary or hypothalamus, LH would be very low. But everything reads as "normal." Doctors don't know what to do, other than use TRT.

 

I saw an endo. He went as far as to say that a total T of 230 something was perfectly normal.

 

Edit: I wanted to add something. People here have been asking if anyone has gotten a liver biopsy. Well, I have. I took accutane in 2001. The biopsy was done in...2008 or 2009. I was seeing a diagnostician. He called him the Doctor House of this place. Anyways, he agreed I had some sort of systemic disease because I was all fucked up. Mind you, at this time, I still didn't think Accutane had any play here, but I suspected it. Doctor was guessing hemochromatosis or maybe copper overload. All they found was Hydropic change in the hepatocytes or vacuolar degeneration. Just means something had damaged the liver but there was no necrosis or fibrosis. What did the damage? Accutane I suspect.

Again .. Havª anyone seen a endocrinologist or a urologist to see if theres everything all right with the hormonal system and the testicles balls and stuff????

could the copper be overloaded in soft tissues once it has been built up in the liver?

I went to an endo and yeah likewise all my results came back fine. They really rely on those results and dont seem to suggest other ideas but instead stay your fine come back in 6 months and we can check again. Fug them all.

Ive been doing cold showers for about 2 weeks now and no-fap and must say I have lots more energy. Im travelling soon for 5 weeks but when I come back I want to start a new life. Gym consistently, Hair mineral analysis and just work on being an all round top bloke. Dont think this will be too hard. But Im not in anyone elses shoes.

Anyway, hope everyone is getting through their week fine

What a relief ... If theres everything all right with testosterone and the reprodutory system i can still have kids

People with IBS i was thinking ( as i had this 2 months after i stopped accutane and got all right ) if theres no connection between anobolism and intestinos. You know? Like skin and hair .. Does intestines cantora growth its density? Becausr what i got from it is that its like some weakened "skin" of the bowels , but what if it could be feeded to go back to normal? Like with collagen , glutamina , queratim and stuff

Edit: I also want to add that I gained 40-50 lbs after taking accutane in 2001 and it's hard to lose it and even harder to keep it off with low T.

I also gained some weight after taking accutane then couple years after that I lost it. Problem is that I ended up being skinnyfat. No matter how much I lost weight I still had fat in my belly and from other places I was skinny as fuck. Now I have very skinny wrists but if I put on some weight it all just goes to my belly. I believe this is because of low T.

Thats low testosterone man! A normal guy like me when gain Wright i got muscles never fat i could eat ruffles all day long becauae of my genetics and thats because my test is normal high

What is it that Propecia and Accutane do in common? I feel like if we can figure this out, and narrow it down, we can make some progress. I, and many of you, have the same shit that is happening with people who took propecia. I can live with the joint pain to an extent, but many on that forum have experienced complete change in facial appearance. Wasting away of their subcutaneous fat. I got that from accutane.

What is it that both of these fucking drugs do???? F

What is it that Propecia and Accutane do in common? I feel like if we can figure this out, and narrow it down, we can make some progress. I, and many of you, have the same shit that is happening with people who took propecia. I can live with the joint pain to an extent, but many on that forum have experienced complete change in facial appearance. Wasting away of their subcutaneous fat. I got that from accutane.

 

What is it that both of these fucking drugs do???? F

Accutane and Propecia (finasteride) both reduce serum levels of testosterone metabolites, namely DHT and androstanediol. In fact, the only known method of action of Propecia is binding and blocking of the 5-alpha reductase (type II) enzyme, which is responsible for converting testosterone into DHT. How exactly Accutane reduces levels of these androgens is not yet fully understood, but one study indicated an %80 reduction in DHT levels in the skin of patients receiving Accutane.

It's worth noting that DHT and other androgens largely contribute to acne and male pattern baldness. ...Without androgens, you don't get acne and you don't get male pattern baldness.

 

What is it that Propecia and Accutane do in common? I feel like if we can figure this out, and narrow it down, we can make some progress. I, and many of you, have the same shit that is happening with people who took propecia. I can live with the joint pain to an extent, but many on that forum have experienced complete change in facial appearance. Wasting away of their subcutaneous fat. I got that from accutane.

 

What is it that both of these fucking drugs do???? F

 

Accutane and Propecia (finasteride) both reduce serum levels of testosterone metabolites, namely DHT and androstanediol. In fact, the only known method of action of Propecia is binding and blocking of the 5-alpha reductase (type II) enzyme, which is responsible for converting testosterone into DHT. How exactly Accutane reduces levels of these androgens is not yet fully understood, but one study indicated an %80 reduction in DHT levels in the skin of patients receiving Accutane.

 

It's worth noting that DHT and other androgens largely contribute to acne and male pattern baldness. ...Without androgens, you don't get acne and you don't get male pattern baldness.

has anyone here tried test. therapy? i dont fuck with needles but if its worth it, than i guess i have nothing to lose. My hormones check out fine which is the weird thing. It's obviously more complex than testosterone therapy, but anyway to unblock 5-alpha reductase?

Have anyone here tried taking St. John's wort?

As accutane is metabolized by the enzyme CYP3A, and St. John's wort is a strong inducer of this specific enzyme, it should mean that your body gets rid of the accutane faster by taking this.

It is very popular herb there I live but I haven't tried it yet.

You should be avare that during taking St. John's wort. You should reduce to maximum sunlight exposition if you don't want many changes in skin pigmentation.

Yes, I researched those a while ago and all of those are on my future to buy list. Astragalus, St. John's Wort, Moringa Leaf, etc... I just got my Reishi Mushroom in the mail from Thailand, so we'll see what that does.

For a direct impact on my brain I was thinking of trying Tianeptine. Nootropic or whatever. Supposed to help mood as well as increase plasticity in some regions of the brain, hippocampal, maybe. Anyone try it?

The acne come back to you guys?

Do you HAVe sinusitis?

On 7/4/2014 at 6:18 AM, Ottovisual said:

Reporting in.

5 weeks using RSO now.

Total ingested 5 grams.

To be clear, the RSO is still dominating me at this moment. If things are going better/worse, the next week it could be vice versa.

3 months after my last dosage I can give a objective review on side effects.

I started a new job this week which involves a lot of driving so I had to quit the daytime dose because I can't risk having a fuckup with dosing and driving.

What happens is the RSO produces massive amounts of melatonin which is a big healer but also a big sleeper. If someone is ill, the first thing they advise is to take a good night of sleep right ? Imagine having a week of sleep pushed into 1 night.

Also like some already posted, your short term memory is pretty much in standby modus when the RSO is active ( probably its easier to induce sleeping this way ).

If I take a night (big) dose at 8 oclock I feel the melatonin 24 hours and feel quite sleepy the whole 24 hours.

If I dont take a dose, I will get massive amounts of energy, to the point where I want to run over the whole world. I feel like a little boy again playing in the woods with no energy limit. ( maybe to rebound the massive melatonin wearing off ).

The second week there was I point where I got random "new" youth memories. It felt like a door opened to a part of the brain which was locked due to depression.

The moment when I got these memories it felt like synchronizing with my old me, I remembered who I was, I felt empathy again. Instead of black & white I felt colors.

Today I also skipped the daytime dose and I can feel it wearing off when I stop my shift in the afternoon.

I got home and I really really wanted to have sex with my girlfriend. I wanted to touch her body. I am looking for subtle words to explain this. I felt like a Greek god [Edited link out]

I cannot emphasize this enough though: Moments happen, they make me smile but whether its permanent or not I cannot tell at this point, I need to be off RSO for quite some time.

Currently I'm fixing the dosing issue, the key is consistency and tolerance. There comes a point where you ingest 1 gram a day and the only side effect is a good night rest. If I ingest 1 gram at my current tolerance point, I will be in lalaland for some days.

As for ingestion, I read somewhere Rick ( or one of his associates ) said the goal is to get the RSO to the stomach. I put my RSO in a vitamin like capsule and swallow it. About 1 hour later I feel it kicking in and then I can pull 12 - 16 hours of sleep.

I tried different ways of ingestion, but this one is the easiest and most potent for me on top of that it follows the same route as accutane did so it can repair the whole accutane route. Rectal is said to be the most potent because of all the large blood vessels there and direct absorption into the blood.

Recommended is 1 small daytime dose in the morning and a big sleeper for the evening.

All the best,

Ottovisual,

Can you give us an update with the RSO? What were your post-Accutane side effects? What side effects disappeared with the RSO? What side effects still remain? Are you still using it? Thanks.

Hey everybody , i know its kinda egocentric , but i need your help as a brother suffering from similar problems. So, send me a personalidade message if you can help me answering my questions.

Do you feel a sense of sleepyness trough the day?

Anyone HAVe sinusitis?

The liver recover with time from accutane damaged?

Its true that it can damaged your balls? Do you noticed any anatomic changed?

I dont HAVe problems with dryness or pain in articulations or anything using related.

Also im skinny -muscle guy

Other thing.. Im not really sure if i had this tiredness as intense as nos when i was in course with the treatment

Also my acne is getting back i think , slowly becausr its only 3 months

And i noticed too that i still very sensive to alcohol ( i just drink a shot )

In resume , the two things im worried is about my balls ( as i need it to grow a beard and HAVe kids hahah - i dont HAVe low libido and ed) and this tiredness thats totally fucked up becausr i need to study if i want to be a good federal judge someday -

Please help me

I have. Everything is within the normal range. LH, FHS, prolactin, SHBG, DHEA, IGF-1, thyroid all normal..well, low normal. But Doctor's see nothing wrong with it. Testosterone hovers around the 200's. If there was a problem with the testicles, LH would be high. If the problem was in the pituitary or hypothalamus, LH would be very low. But everything reads as "normal." Doctors don't know what to do, other than use TRT.

I saw an endo. He went as far as to say that a total T of 230 something was perfectly normal.

Edit: I wanted to add something. People here have been asking if anyone has gotten a liver biopsy. Well, I have. I took accutane in 2001. The biopsy was done in...2008 or 2009. I was seeing a diagnostician. He called him the Doctor House of this place. Anyways, he agreed I had some sort of systemic disease because I was all fucked up. Mind you, at this time, I still didn't think Accutane had any play here, but I suspected it. Doctor was guessing hemochromatosis or maybe copper overload. All they found was Hydropic change in the hepatocytes or vacuolar degeneration. Just means something had damaged the liver but there was no necrosis or fibrosis. What did the damage? Accutane I suspect.

 

Again .. Have anyone seen a endocrinologist or a urologist to see if theres everything all right with the hormonal system and the testicles balls and stuff????

So , the doctor said what about this problems in the liver? Is this something harmful for health?

foxo is a tumor supressor gene.it been shown that retinoic acid supress insulin growth factor(igf) by causing elevation in insulin growth factor binding protein (igfbp). i think that this is a tumor growth prevention mechanisem.

normaly igf would activate the pl3k/akt/mtor patway which would take out foxo, but as i describe abvoe it can't do so when retinoic acid acting,

 

Hi Modeaa,

Thought you might be interested in this:

Quick Guide: FOXO Transcription Factors

http://web.stanford.edu/group/brunet/Carter%20ME%202007.pdf

A notable excerpt:

What remains to be explored?

 

More FOXO target genes remain to be discovered, as do regulators of FOXO function. An exciting area of future exploration will be

to determine how FOXO factors mediate cell non-autonomous processes in the entire organism.

 

The recent discovery that FOXO can upregulate neuropeptides in the hypothalamus suggests that FOXO can regulate animal

behavior, and future studies will elucidate how hormones and neuronal signaling cause FOXO-dependent transcription of target

genes that affect the entire organism.

So, FOXO proteins may exert a cascade effect on multiple endocrine systems through hypothalamic signalling. Is it necessary for FOXO1 to be persistently upregulated to for a person to experience long-term side effects from retinoid drugs? Could it simply be "downstream" systems that were persistently affected? - Just rhetorical questions in response to Professor Melnik's supposed statements that FOXO1 returns to baseline after stopping Accutane/Isotretinon.

What is a bit contrary is that the article states hypothalamic peptide hormones are upregulated by FOXOs, while the studies of the effects of Isotretinoin on pituitary hormones indicate a decrease in hypothalamic - pituitary signalling.

Maybe Isotretinoin negatively moderates the effects of FOXOs on hypothalamic output, compared to plain-old retinoic acid?

Modeaa you are awesome. Keep up the good work. I have a feeling you'll find a cure for us one day.

Thank you macleod. i hope i will (but don't count on it)

Loving your posts!

Do you have any education of the subject or is it just free handed study?

Me myself am suffering from a lot of lasting side effect from accutane (abdominal pain, weight loss, constipation, diarrhea, poor digestion, headaches, drowsiness, dry skin, mood changes etc), and would love to join the train for the hunt of a cure for this.

Do you have any tips for me how to get into the more scientific aspect of this as fast as possible?

Best regards