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On 6/9/2015 at 2:27 AM, macleod said:Hey, I have an interesting update. So I have been taking a bit of Melatonin (1.5mg) to adjust my sleep since I have insomnia, day/night reversal, and the works, as I'm sure you are all familiar with too, and guess what started to hurt again, my lower back. The same feeling we used to have while on Accutane. I started searching and apparently Melatonin affects the adrenal glands and some hormones like estrogen...What do we know about these drugs (isotretinoin, propecia, finasteride) and its effects on adrenal glands? I think this is a great place to start looking. Would be nice if Moddeea or Dubya looked into this.
On a separate note, I find it impossible to believe that nary a scientist or doctor doesn't acknowledge these issues and side effects of this medication since we all clearly have similar side effects. Its a distinct pattern. It leads me to believe that they are purposefully withholding knowledge or that they are in fact blissfully ignorant and cannot nor will attempt to solve this. And the scientific literature that we research disagrees with them...Do they not read medical journals?
Fortunately for me I also have secondary intracranial hypertension to go along with most of the side effects you all mention. That is, one of my pupils is bigger than the other (papilledema), tinnitus in the left hemisphere of my head, visual disturbances, and sleep issues seemingly related to the fluid pressure. So, I have actual signs to go along with my symptoms. Because of this no one cannot tell me that Accutane isn't the culprit for my issues, or I am basically afforded the right to spit in their face.
There is a pattern, we all have similar side effects, we all have some traits in common some way or another...We need worldwide attention so that studies can be done on us to find out what we all have in common.
There is a 5-alpha reduced form of cortisol, 5a-THF, which is used to diagnose a 5-ar deficiency:
[Edited link out]
http://adc.bmj.com/content/67/6/720.full.pdf+html
I'm not sure what physiological effect it has, but Accutane has been shown to lower its production:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1827343
...Yours truly had a diagnostic test that showed an abnormally low 5a-THF/THF ratio and a low androsterone/etiocholanolone ratio. ...over 10 years after taking Accutane.
Basically, I have papers that say I have a 5-ar deficiency, so any doctor who wants to argue with me can suck my cold, lifeless dick. ... 5-ar deficiency doesn't occur spontaneously, and I wasn't born that way.
Intracranial hypertension screams "retinoid side effect!". I hope you have literally spit in the face of any doctor who tried to stick you with the Looney Tunes tag. ...Gotta give em at least one good reason.
Also, nearly every single post-Accutane sufferer who has had DHEAS tested had over-the-top levels. This is another adrenal hormone.
Regarding conspiracies:
- There's barely any money in researching specific drug side-effects.
- University researchers and doctors are probably a bit afraid to bite the hand that feeds. -You want that new lab equipment donated by Roche, or another pharmaceutical company, or do you want to be a hero?
- Statistics can be bent to one's will when presenting data. -Outliers don't count sometimes.
- Many doctors are lazy, shiftless, and suck at their jobs. -I'm convinced this last one applies to the entirety of the FDA too.
- Doctors have no obligation to file adverse event reports if they don't feel like it. -A cop not bothering to write a ticket. It's too much paperwork.
- Drug reps are salesmen and have no obligation to discuss the negatives, while having the full attention of doctors on a regular basis.
- ...We're not exactly a loud crowd either.
- It's very easy to ignore a problem if you aren't dealing with it personally.
- Nothing to gain by anyone helping us.
Did anyone get the sensation of falling (like on a roller coaster or jumping off a cliff) when first starting tane? I distinctly remember getting this feeling while laying in bed and also while driving. I also remember getting chills over my ENTIRE body once within a year post tane.
Scott, I get these feelings too, but for me it started several years after stopping the drug. I remember two times that I felt this falling sensation, once while I was driving over an overpass and the other time I was sitting in a chair with wheels. Also, often when I get out of an elevator on any upper level and as I come to a stop, I get light headed and it feels like the building is swaying. The first time it happened, I was in a hospital (one of many visits trying to find out what is going on with me) and I swore it was the building and not me. I kept looking out the window and thought wow, they did a crappy job constructing the building.
I frequently get the chills too. Also, my skin is very cold to touch. I wasn't sure if the drug somehow affected my circulatory system.
Do you guys think cannabis might be the only solution for us that really are at whits end?
My parents (yes i moved back in with parents..........................) bought pizza and here i am thinking how i cant even enjoy it because i am so focused on my healthy eating/fasting plan. I really will try anything
I also want to know more about your guys lives, whats worked for you, and what you eat! I have been eating damn near (and i mean it) perfectly for about the last 3/4 of a year, and while i do feel better/different, not at all. I eat: Apples, Oranges, Lettuce, VEGGIES! (Brocoli, peas, carrots (vitamin a?? not good, cant imagine carrots are bad but youre right, when i STOP eating them, a few days later... i feel no better) ... tomatos, rice, idk. that is pretty much it, oh POTATOS!!!!! I love potatos.
I was recently hired at a large corperation here in Seattle and its straining every part of my brain the wrong way to be in that social environment.
I am also thinking that if by the next year or two things get worse (im eating healthy and walking 10,000 steps a day......) I MIGHT try a medication. Anything come to mind, if that is not to personal, please share!
Well the plan is to stick together because we're stronger as a group. It's the only way we'll have a shot at taking on a company and getting the govt and media to listen. We try to get our own site going. We try to find solutions to improve our quality of life. We reach out to universities and doctors. Maybe team up with the other 5ar gene affected people (propecia, finasteride) and grow our numbers. We each create a detailed report and log of our symptoms as we go through our lives up until our mortality. Keep the website going and try to stay in touch to see if retinoid therapy does increase mortality for the sake of science. It's looking more and more like the solution to our problems will have to be embryonic stem cell therapy, which is basically what anyone with any disease or sickness is looking forward to, so we'll have to wait in line...Good news is, its not too far off. So we'll see what the future holds.
Last post of the day i promise, im going to have a little mood swing on everyone here because i am just coming to terms with being fucked after accutane. You guys know who you are the ones that accutane ALREADY sunk your ship, whats the plan?
I think unless your life is truely shitted to the point where you just want to kill yourself everyday then hope is not lost. Not by a long shot. I feel a lot better than I did last year, and then way better than the year before that!
My goal is to keep researching. Work on getting fit and healthy again, and by this put some gnarly hours into getting as ripped as can be.
It would be way too ironic and illogical to be in perfect physical health and still feel like total crap. I just don't think that's possible.
So anyway that and yeah just work on building things in my life.
The thing with accutane I think is that you feel quite often the feeling of impending doom. That's just a byproduct at the moment.
I like to think that if I can grow from this, I'll be a pretty dope dude one day and basically nothing will really get me down.
Anyway, obviously easier than said but after awhile you just want to pull out your dick and fuck the world. Make it your bitch. Haha.
Cool shit to do straight away would be stuff like cutting out smoking durries and alcohol. Nofap for at least 6 months and a recent discovery of mine, cold showers for at least 30 days. After about 5 you start feeling like your not scared anymore which is cool.
KOI 
(We're rebuilding at the moment. But can still build more cos fuck it we can)
I am also thinking that if by the next year or two things get worse (im eating healthy and walking 10,000 steps a day......) I MIGHT try a medication. Anything come to mind, if that is not to personal, please share!
Stay away from medication, especially SSRI/SNRI, benzos and antipsychotics. I took them all and they only screwed me up even more. Before going on medication I wasn't completely impotent and numb, now I'm. They come with their own terrible set of side effects and recovery sometimes takes years or damage is permanent. Don't recommend. Its the worst shit ever, poison just like Accucrap
I think unless your life is truely shitted to the point where you just want to kill yourself everyday then hope is not lost. Not by a long shot. I feel a lot better than I did last year, and then way better than the year before that!
My goal is to keep researching. Work on getting fit and healthy again, and by this put some gnarly hours into getting as ripped as can be.
It would be way too ironic and illogical to be in perfect physical health and still feel like total crap. I just don't think that's possible.
So anyway that and yeah just work on building things in my life.
The thing with accutane I think is that you feel quite often the feeling of impending doom. That's just a byproduct at the moment.
I like to think that if I can grow from this, I'll be a pretty dope dude one day and basically nothing will really get me down.
Anyway, obviously easier than said but after awhile you just want to pull out your dick and fuck the world. Make it your bitch. Haha.
Cool shit to do straight away would be stuff like cutting out smoking durries and alcohol. Nofap for at least 6 months and a recent discovery of mine, cold showers for at least 30 days. After about 5 you start feeling like your not scared anymore which is cool.
KOI
(We're rebuilding at the moment. But can still build more cos fuck it we can)
I like your approach man! Altough since last winter after I crashed totally I'm thinking about suicide every day I'm also trying to be active, lift heavy, eat healthy. My mistake was that I fucked myself even further with medication. But still things that you're writing about make sense. Take care dude
Last post of the day i promise, im going to have a little mood swing on everyone here because i am just coming to terms with being fucked after accutane. You guys know who you are the ones that accutane ALREADY sunk your ship, whats the plan?
I think unless your life is truely shitted to the point where you just want to kill yourself everyday then hope is not lost. Not by a long shot. I feel a lot better than I did last year, and then way better than the year before that!
My goal is to keep researching. Work on getting fit and healthy again, and by this put some gnarly hours into getting as ripped as can be.
It would be way too ironic and illogical to be in perfect physical health and still feel like total crap. I just don't think that's possible.
So anyway that and yeah just work on building things in my life.
The thing with accutane I think is that you feel quite often the feeling of impending doom. That's just a byproduct at the moment.
I like to think that if I can grow from this, I'll be a pretty dope dude one day and basically nothing will really get me down.
Anyway, obviously easier than said but after awhile you just want to pull out your dick and fuck the world. Make it your bitch. Haha.
Cool shit to do straight away would be stuff like cutting out smoking durries and alcohol. Nofap for at least 6 months and a recent discovery of mine, cold showers for at least 30 days. After about 5 you start feeling like your not scared anymore which is cool.
KOI
(We're rebuilding at the moment. But can still build more cos fuck it we can)
Great answer!
It would be way too ironic and illogical to be in perfect physical health and still feel like total crap.
If you can get to perfect physical health. I worked hard at gym for year with little or no results. I think my hormones are just so fucked that I can't grow any muscle.
If you can get to perfect physical health. I worked hard at gym for year with little or no results. I think my hormones are just so fucked that I can't grow any muscle.
Same here. I used to work out a lot, run, cardio etc. and with very little result. Sure I was stronger and more muscular but can't get rid of gyno or pot belly, abdomen fat. Its still better to exercise than do nothing and wait for miracle to happen. That's my opinion
Found this study interesting. DHA, a component of fish oil, can inhibit the action of FOXO1 and FOXO3. This is the exact opposite of what accutane does. I also read somewhere that EPA might increase FOXO but I can't find a source for that.
J Nutr Biochem. 2012 Dec;23(12):1609-16. doi: 10.1016/j.jnutbio.2011.11.003. Epub 2012 Mar 22.Docosahexaenoic acid suppresses the expression of FoxO and its target genes.
AbstractDocosahexaenoic acid (DHA), an n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid, has previously been shown to ameliorate obesity-associated metabolic syndrome. To decipher the mechanism responsible for the beneficial effects of DHA on energy/glucose homeostasis and the metabolic syndrome, 30 weaned cross-bred pigs were randomly assigned to three groups and fed ad libitum with a standard diet supplemented with 2% of beef tallow, soybean oil or DHA oil for 30 days, and the gene expression profile of various tissues was evaluated by quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction.
The DHA-supplemented diets reduced the expression of forkhead box O transcription factor (FoxO) 1 and FoxO3 in the liver and adipose tissue. DHA treatments also decreased the expression of FoxO1 and FoxO3 in human hepatoma cells, SK-HEP-1 and human and porcine primary adipocytes.
In addition, DHA also down-regulated FoxOtarget genes, such as microsomal triacylglycerol transfer protein (MTP), glucose-6-phosphatase, apolipoprotein C-III (apoC-III) and insulin-like growth factor binding-protein 1 in the liver, as well as reduced total plasma levels of cholesterol and triacylglycerol in the pig. Transcriptional suppression of FoxO1, FoxO3, apoC-III and MTP by DHAwas further confirmed by reporter assays with each promoter construct. Taken together, our study indicates that DHA modulates lipid and glucose homeostasis in part by down-regulating FoxO function. The down-regulation of genes associated with triacylglycerol metabolism and very low density lipoprotein assembly is likely to contribute to the beneficial effects of DHA on the metabolic syndrome.
Personally, Fish oil makes me feel like crap. I get depressed and almost catatonic for days. I've learned that I can only tolerate low doses of most supplements, but I'm curious about the effect low doses of DHA might have? Say 100-200 mg versus teaspoons of the stuff.
Is anyone using fish oil? Any effect on weight, concentration, brain fog ?
Found this study interesting. DHA, a component of fish oil, can inhibit the action of FOXO1 and FOXO3. This is the exact opposite of what accutane does. I also read somewhere that EPA might increase FOXO but I can't find a source for that.
J Nutr Biochem. 2012 Dec;23(12):1609-16. doi: 10.1016/j.jnutbio.2011.11.003. Epub 2012 Mar 22.
Docosahexaenoic acid suppresses the expression of FoxO and its target genes.
Abstract
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), an n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid, has previously been shown to ameliorate obesity-associated metabolic syndrome. To decipher the mechanism responsible for the beneficial effects of DHA on energy/glucose homeostasis and the metabolic syndrome, 30 weaned cross-bred pigs were randomly assigned to three groups and fed ad libitum with a standard diet supplemented with 2% of beef tallow, soybean oil or DHA oil for 30 days, and the gene expression profile of various tissues was evaluated by quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction.The DHA-supplemented diets reduced the expression of forkhead box O transcription factor (FoxO) 1 and FoxO3 in the liver and adipose tissue. DHA treatments also decreased the expression of FoxO1 and FoxO3 in human hepatoma cells, SK-HEP-1 and human and porcine primary adipocytes.In addition, DHA also down-regulated FoxOtarget genes, such as microsomal triacylglycerol transfer protein (MTP), glucose-6-phosphatase, apolipoprotein C-III (apoC-III) and insulin-like growth factor binding-protein 1 in the liver, as well as reduced total plasma levels of cholesterol and triacylglycerol in the pig. Transcriptional suppression of FoxO1, FoxO3, apoC-III and MTP by DHAwas further confirmed by reporter assays with each promoter construct. Taken together, our study indicates that DHA modulates lipid and glucose homeostasis in part by down-regulating FoxO function. The down-regulation of genes associated with triacylglycerol metabolism and very low density lipoprotein assembly is likely to contribute to the beneficial effects of DHA on the metabolic syndrome.
Personally, Fish oil makes me feel like crap. I get depressed and almost catatonic for days. I've learned that I can only tolerate low doses of most supplements, but I'm curious about the effect low doses of DHA might have? Say 100-200 mg versus teaspoons of the stuff.
Is anyone using fish oil? Any effect on weight, concentration, brain fog ?
Pretty sure there was a lot of discussion about it near the start of the thread
People you need to realize that 'reality' is just another dream cycle and your commonly appearing reality (your bed, house, car, family) is your karma that you wake up to each dream cycle (they're attachments, extensions of your body). 'Reality' is a 'false' awakening as well. You CAN use dream control in this dream cycle too, although its much more stable and difficult but its very very possible. Wake up, become lucid and you can dissolve the pain and accutane as if it were only a passing dream.
Accutane and pain (that controls me) is a thing of the past for me. You don't have to be in pain. YOU have the control.
Just to clarify, if anyone believes I am being socially inappropriate or irrelevant: This is a thread about repairing the damage of Accutane. There are many routes to that outcome, scientific and 'mystical'. I believe the scientific method is largely the purpose of life. Science is expansion, discovery and understanding...all of the reasons we are here. However when shit gets real and pain and suffering become unbearable I would rather pull out my cheat codes (the mystical method) than have to deal with unfinished science. The mystical method can help people just as much, its not invalid and 'uncool'.
F being socially acceptable anyway.
Why do SSRIs cause chronic fatigue syndrome in some people that doesn't go away even after being off the drugs for years? I know someone that said that an SSRI caused them this and they said that they've felt lethargic and have had chronic fatigue syndrome ever since.
I guess it all depends on for how long the person was on them and what type of SSRI were they. People usually recover from SSRI withdrawal, but it can take from a couple of months to couple of years
Why do SSRIs cause chronic fatigue syndrome in some people that doesn't go away even after being off the drugs for years? I know someone that said that an SSRI caused them this and they said that they've felt lethargic and have had chronic fatigue syndrome ever since.
I guess it all depends on for how long the person was on them and what type of SSRI were they. People usually recover from SSRI withdrawal, but it can take from a couple of months to couple of years
Don't forget that most of SSRI are libido killer.
Hello everybody.
I want to share with my story. I know that is maybe not a good thread for me, because I never used accutane. My poison were antibiotics. So I understand if you all gonna be mad at me, but I see that I have similiar symptoms to many people from this thread.
I had couple courses of antibiotics. It never helped with my acne(moderate, but exremely persistant), but doctors were prescreibing them, and when I was on them acne was not a problem for me. Last course(fourth) was in 2011. At the end of course I started to having stomach pains. And they never go away. I see now how it was an utterly madness - combined all courses I was on antibiotics for whole year! I just can't forgive myself that I take them. But on the other hand - I was young and foolish, doctors should know better, right? At least that I was believing at the time, being 21 in 2011. Everybody was cleared from their acne(and mine was one of the most severe I ever sawed - sometimes it was so bad that I couldn't speak or eat properly - mainly because most of my pimples were around my mouth) I just wanted to say goodbye to acne too. I just can't forgive myself that I took that last course... mainly because that at this point I know that antibiotics were not a long-term answer, but my dermatologist convince me to try just one more time. At the other hand - there is one good thing I took that last course, because alternative was accutane. Sometimes it's just one thing that keeps me alive - that if I took accutane not antibiotics then maybe I would be in much worse state. I have stomach pains like I said, severe bloating, I'm passing gases all the time, and a lot of fatigue and brain fog. I had endoscopy, ultrasonography but they never found anything big, just minor issues or nothing at all. I'm taking a lot of probiotics but it's not helping. After 3 years depression hit hard, I was in really bad place. Now I'm seeing psychiatrists, she prescribe me some antidepressants. It helped with fatigue and brain fog, but digestion issues is still there. She even tells me that in my head, that if it would be something severe then after 4 years it would change. It's like she is not listening that I'm not saying that is something severe, because it's not. My pain is not severe, but it's irritating AS HELL and passing gas all the time is not fun. She told me that my gut flora would rebuild a 20 times in those 4 years. Maybe it's true, and maybe because of that probiotics are not helping. But I know that SOMETHING is not right, maybe gut flora is okay, but something different is not okay. I know my body, and it's not okay. She implies that it's all in my head, and I know that my mental state is not helping, but it's not root cause. Right now I'm trying all what I can do too help myself but it's so hard... Im trying to exercise, eating probiotics, and changing my mental state, but this is tricky one. The thought of how I f*cked up my health is the first thought when I wake up, and last when I'm going to sleep. I can't forgive myself. I see how others of my age are building careers and families, but I'm in like some state of limbo. I can't even find a job, because for me it's hard to stay awake 8 hours, and working? Antidepressants are making things a little bit better, but it's also not a longterm solution. I just don't know what to do. It;s been 4 years like that. I want to be healthy, feel okay again... I can't even relaxe, because I'm feeling discomfort all the time, and then I thing about this some more, and it;s a vicious cycle. Sometimes when I'm really preoccuped with something I can forget about that discomfort for 5 or 10 minutes, but that's all. I just feel like time is passing by me, I feel extremely nostalgic to my highschool years when I had severe acne - okay - but at least I feeled like myself. I just can't accept that I'm feeling like this, and maybe I will feel like this to my grave. I know people that were overusing drugs and they are okay - and I was always a good boy and do everything that docs say and that's what I get? My only hope is that maybe that I took antibiotics not accutane then maybe my state is more likely reversable, but I don't know if that's truth. At least it's what I like to say to myself when I feel really low. We don't even know how accutane really works, right? At least with antibiotics it should be simplier - they killing bacteria(bad and good) so I should be focused on rebuilding good bacteria. I don't know if all of this make any sense, sorry for my english because it's not my first language. I have birthday soon and it's just so depressing that it's another year in pain. I like to say to myself that if I get better then I will be stronger than ever, but I don't even know if I ever gonna be better...
And dortheatos - trzymaj sie brachu, rozumiem twoj bol.
On 6/13/2015 at 9:40 PM, dortheatos said:On 6/13/2015 at 8:29 PM, Kokodu said:Don't forget that most of SSRI are libido killer.
They should use them in prison to castrate pedophiles. That shit totally castrated me.
Truly sorry to hear that.
Some of you are probably aware of this group of men and women with persistent symptoms that are very similar to many of ours:
[Edited link out]
...Genital numbness, libido loss, and inability to perform, often coupled with loss of emotional capacity, depersonalization, "brain fog" and fatigue.
The major difference seems to be the plethora of physical complications that Accutane inflicts.
It still amazes me how much my brain has changed from just 5 days on 20mg Roaccutane. I'm not the same person I used to be and caffeine doesn't stimulate my mind as well as it used to which suggests that Roaccutane has caused neurotransmitter imbalance. I've been prescribed SSRI for depression caused by Roaccutane since I scored high on self-report depression test. This is my 3rd week on 10mg Escitalopram and I was hoping that it would fix everything but it has only helped with the flat mood but nothing else. And SSRI has its own downsides like not being able to ejaculate as easily which causes me to feel irritable, not feeling like myself, decreased motivation and slight brain fog. But the side effects from SSRIs are a walk in the park compared to side effects from Roaccutane so I'm still able to take it. I'm starting to lose hope now, perhaps nothing can take me back to how I used to be.
Well I thank you guys for your posts. I too was considering meds to get me out of this apathy grey world feeling but now know to stay away from them. Does anyone have any experience with taking hormone related drugs? Also, anyone with digestive issues have any experience taking probiotics or enzymes to help digestion?
I have many digestive issues and I tried tons of various probiotics. They don't helped me at all, there is no difference. I tried one type of enzymes and they didn't help me either, but I tried it just for a short period of time. I just don't want to take to much suplements. What helped me a little bit with digestive issues is medicine called "Amol" here is what it contains: "Mentholum 17,23 mg
Citronellae aetheroleum 1,00 mg
Caryophylli floris aetheroleum 1,00 mg
Cinnamomi zeylanici corticis aetheroleum 2,40 mg
Limonis aetheroleum 5,70 mg
Menthae piperitae aetheroleum 2,40 mg
Lavandulae aetheroleum 2,40 mg"
It helped me maybe in 5-10% but it's 5-10% more than probiotics and enzymes. I hate to say but antidepressants helped me to, and it was biggest help in digestive issues. I'm in a little better shape mentally to, so I will try to end with antidepressants and try psychotherapy. I think that mind plays a role in many disseases and mainly in digestive problems. Even before my illness I had stomach problems before important exams, so I think that depression and stress that comes from it can only worsen all digestive problems. It's not the root of my problem, but being stable mentally makes my digestive issues a little bit better.
So , about the fasting ... Have anyone tried it???
Also , i got this question, did anyone has ever gone to a urologist? Maybe accutane damaged our balls . that is something im really afraid of. At least check this out : if your balls are ok and testosterone levels normal too.
I noticed that my epididimus arent as thigh and small as it should, i think .
- all of this have scientific evidence , as testosterone is linked to energy mental clarity ,bones, heart etc