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If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.
I agree with you.
Until somebody can come to me and tell me that they have actually tried everything that the liver flush experts recommend when stones are stubborn with little success, I'm not going to fully give up entirely on experimenting. I have heard of too many people that have gotten results to just allow it to be overlooked.
If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.
It mixes with bile in the small intestine, that's what gives the stones the green colour. Bile gets released to absorb the fat (olive oil), the reaction between the bile, epsom salt and the olive oil lemon drink causes the stones. It's not going into your liver ducts and removing cholesterol stones, the stones are not calcified or hard enough.
In regards to your question i can only presume you mean my many failed attempts at the liver flush. I got stones out when i was younger, but nowadays i don't have any bile flow so i can do it by the letter every time and not get stones out. The liver flush working for you shows you've got good bile flow, not that your liver is filled with tonnes of stones because it's not.
So everybody, I've got a plan. 
I'm mulling over thoughts about putting together a presentational workshop on self-esteem, postitive-body image, acne, and the dangers of Accutane that I could pitch to the school boards and perhaps present in public schools.
Every parent's worst nightmare is having their child harmed by drugs, so it seems natural to me that there would be a lot of parents who might get behind the idea of warning kids about the dangers of Accutane. If we can scare kids away from cigarettes, booze, illicit drugs, and now perscription drugs, why the fuck can't we campaign against the dangers of Accutane to the demographic it's being pushed upon ?
I've got a lot of good ideas, and with teen suicide being such a hot topic these days, there would be some relevant emotional weight behind getting testimonies from the families of Accutane suicide victims. Survivors living with side-effects could also give testimonies. The theme of the workshop could be self-acceptance and positive body image, with Accutane use being likened to unhealthy behaviours like bulimia to look thin, complete with all of the same absurd health trade offs for the pursuit of vanity.
Has anyone here done a water fast? That seems like the quickest most effective way to detox due to the massive lysing of fat cells. I will be doing one in about 15 days if anyone wants to join. We could share our experiences
I'll try water fasting with you. I'm too unwell to eat anyway.
If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.
It mixes with bile in the small intestine, that's what gives the stones the green colour. Bile gets released to absorb the fat (olive oil), the reaction between the bile, epsom salt and the olive oil lemon drink causes the stones. It's not going into your liver ducts and removing cholesterol stones, the stones are not calcified or hard enough.
In regards to your question i can only presume you mean my many failed attempts at the liver flush. I got stones out when i was younger, but nowadays i don't have any bile flow so i can do it by the letter every time and not get stones out. The liver flush working for you shows you've got good bile flow, not that your liver is filled with tonnes of stones because it's not.
Ok so Moritz' Liver Cleanse is a waste of time according to many of you. Has anyone done the Dr Schulze's 5 day liver detox or for that matter the 5 day kidney detox?? or is this also a waste of time?
I totally believe that bile flow is a HUGE problem for us as time goes on. Is there any relief found by taking "Ox Bile" or something similar - like those people who've had their gallbladder removed and get relief through such supplements? ( not Accutane related )
Anything to get some relief from that dried out irritable feeling. I always thought a good oil would do the trick like Flax seed oil or something, but it doesn't. I even thought Baxyl would help - it didn't for me. Funny how you can feel totally dried out and yet when you exercise, you sweat more than ever?!
The other thing I believe is that there is definately an "Oxidisation" issue going on ( I think thats the word ). The thinning hair, varicose veins & swollen ancles,
teeth & gum issues amongst other things - it's like I've got the body of a 50 year old and yet I'm still in my 30's.
Stay strong people - One day this shit will be behind us!!
PS - Feel free to comment or hurl abuse at me, whatever works..........it's all good!
Modeaa's post on the other page is brilliant. CYP3A4 is the main enzyme used to remove excess retinol and it's involved in the metabolism of All trans retinol and retinoic acid. It a heme enzyme which means it needs iron to be created. Iron also needs copper to metabolise. Vitamin C increases iron uptake as does folate and B12. But the most important thing is iron itself.
So everybody, I've got a plan.
I'm mulling over thoughts about putting together a presentational workshop on self-esteem, postitive-body image, acne, and the dangers of Accutane that I could pitch to the school boards and perhaps present in public schools.
Every parent's worst nightmare is having their child harmed by drugs, so it seems natural to me that there would be a lot of parents who might get behind the idea of warning kids about the dangers of Accutane. If we can scare kids away from cigarettes, booze, illicit drugs, and now perscription drugs, why the fuck can't we campaign against the dangers of Accutane to the demographic it's being pushed upon ?
I've got a lot of good ideas, and with teen suicide being such a hot topic these days, there would be some relevant emotional weight behind getting testimonies from the families of Accutane suicide victims. Survivors living with side-effects could also give testimonies. The theme of the workshop could be self-acceptance and positive body image, with Accutane use being likened to unhealthy behaviours like bulimia to look thin, complete with all of the same absurd health trade offs for the pursuit of vanity.
Thats a great idea man
Hi, new to the forum here.
So glad I found you guys, as I share your problem and this discussion really stimulates my thinking on this matter.
So, here's a suggestion of mechanisms and "prescriptions" that might help our situation.
I'll also include things that have helped me, from most to least effective.
*Minimizing retinol intake. This is obvious.
*Intermittent fasting. Higher cAMP-levels increase the rate of detoxification.
*A multimineral and vitamin C supplement. As detoxification can't function if you're deficient in for example Iron, Copper, Zinc, etc.
*Using PXR/SXR/FXR agonists. These nuclear receptors regulate detoxification.
The reason "bile acid flow" helps detoxification, is partially because it activates PXR/SXR.
Activation of these receptors also activate CYP3A4, for example with Tocotrienols.
This can also be accomplished with other substances:
Tocotrienols, Artichoke extract, Bile acid salts (ursodeoxycholic acid, cholic acid, tauroursodeoxycholic acid, etc.).
*Increasing Glutathione synthesis or activity:
Whey protein, Zinc. Possibly also intravenous or some form of oral (liposomal?) glutathione.
*Vitamin D. This also induces CYP3A4. Also has other positive influences on detoxification.
*Using Thyroxine (t4).
I don't recommend this, but I'll be testing this in a few days, to see how it influences the condition and liver metabolism.
I haven't tried all of the above, as I'm waiting for a few orders to ship. Takes a few days.
Please test or criticize the above, as I'm not trying to "be right" or win an argument. I'm only here to treat the same problems we all have. Feedback helps refine thinking.
I personally wouldn't use the denatured whey because of the retinol content. Rather use n-acetylcysteine, liposomal Vitamin C or alpha lipoic acid...... but fascinating post chung*pao non the less. Also i've read that milk thistle is a potent CYP3A4 enzyme inhibitor, likewise grapefruit juice so it'd be best to stay away from them. Why the use of T4, whats the theory behind that?
If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.
Your lacking in rational, scientific, responses. Such as telling me that 'you thinking it works' suffice, or that because Andreas Moritz told you it is true it must be. I am just trying to understand how you're thinking. I believed in this stuff too awhile back. Now, when I understand that it isn't real it is quite fascinating that so much people endorse it (well people on curezone)... Why would so many do this if it wasn't real? My guess right now is that a lot of people there have health anxiety on these forums and when anyone - who doesn't understand the consequences of saying something like 'you have a big fungus growing inside of you and will eventually kill you' - tell them something scary they might have that anxiety manifest itself by trying to find a 'cure' that doesn't exist.
I pray I am wrong though, it would be awesome if it worked. Although, I've decided that I can't continue on that path anymore. It's like you lose yourself, you get so consumed by it all, you become completely obsessed. I am still afraid to eat sometimes, because I've been on such crazy diets. In the end, I don't want to turn into that kind of person. I hope I can also speak to someone who has just started, and thus, that person will not have to go through all of this too.
I do wish you luck in your endeavors.
Please check this out too, just to get some perspective:
Also,
"Ingestion of a large amount of oil will stimulate of gallbladder contractions. The gallbladder though is not the liver. Therefore, liver flushing is not only misleading, but also inaccurate. The fact that the liver flush supporters do not know the difference between the liver and the gallbladder is very concerning by itself. There are many more discrepancies though as well as dangers that the liver flush supporters have been making sure are not reported on Curezone."
And,
"Some of the liver flush supporters have also posted their own evidence proving that these so-called stones were formed in the intestines, not the liver or gallbladder. Various people have tested this by mixing red dye in the olive oil before ingesting it. When they collected the blobs from their feces and cut them open they found specs of the red dye in these blobs. Since the dye never travels to the liver, nor the gallbladder the only possible way for the dye to have gotten in to these blobs was to have formed in the intestines where saponification is well known to take place. Some of the supporters have claimed the dye got inside as what they refer to as stones passed in to the intestines since the stones are permeable to the dye. Real gallstones though are hard and not permeable to dye."
If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.
It mixes with bile in the small intestine, that's what gives the stones the green colour. Bile gets released to absorb the fat (olive oil), the reaction between the bile, epsom salt and the olive oil lemon drink causes the stones. It's not going into your liver ducts and removing cholesterol stones, the stones are not calcified or hard enough.
In regards to your question i can only presume you mean my many failed attempts at the liver flush. I got stones out when i was younger, but nowadays i don't have any bile flow so i can do it by the letter every time and not get stones out. The liver flush working for you shows you've got good bile flow, not that your liver is filled with tonnes of stones because it's not.
Ok so Moritz' Liver Cleanse is a waste of time according to many of you. Has anyone done the Dr Schulze's 5 day liver detox or for that matter the 5 day kidney detox?? or is this also a waste of time?
I totally believe that bile flow is a HUGE problem for us as time goes on. Is there any relief found by taking "Ox Bile" or something similar - like those people who've had their gallbladder removed and get relief through such supplements? ( not Accutane related )
Anything to get some relief from that dried out irritable feeling. I always thought a good oil would do the trick like Flax seed oil or something, but it doesn't. I even thought Baxyl would help - it didn't for me. Funny how you can feel totally dried out and yet when you exercise, you sweat more than ever?!
The other thing I believe is that there is definately an "Oxidisation" issue going on ( I think thats the word ). The thinning hair, varicose veins & swollen ancles,
teeth & gum issues amongst other things - it's like I've got the body of a 50 year old and yet I'm still in my 30's.
Stay strong people - One day this shit will be behind us!!
PS - Feel free to comment or hurl abuse at me, whatever works..........it's all good!
oxbile will work for bile deficiency, also if you have fat malabsorption, pain sometimes upper right abdomen which would actually indicate some gallbladder problems. Try upping fat (good fat like coconut, grass-fed butter and meat) intake, I know there is a lot of info on it so you can research it. I found this: http://empoweredsustenance.com/fat-malabsorption/ but I don't know how legit she is, but they the methods can only do good.
"the stones are olive oil and lemon / grapefruit juice mixed with the epsom salts and a little bit of the apple juice you've been ingesting for days. It's totally fake.
Just fyi, these green gallstones that apparently are passed during this 'liver flush' are nothing more than semi-solid balls made up of oil and acid. In other words, theyre nothing but a mixture of the olive oil and lemon juice that you drank the night before. These stones will melt if left out in the heat. True calcified stones from your body will not melt.
"Some of the liver flush supporters have also posted their own evidence proving that these so-called stones were formed in the intestines, not the liver or gallbladder. Various people have tested this by mixing red dye in the olive oil before ingesting it. When they collected the blobs from their feces and cut them open they found specs of the red dye in these blobs. Since the dye never travels to the liver, nor the gallbladder the only possible way for the dye to have gotten in to these blobs was to have formed in the intestines where saponification is well known to take place."
-----------------
I've only done 1 flush with no noticeable improvements but here's my couple of cents on the matter:
You're most likely right about the "stones" not being true calcified stones. However, who's to say the flush is ineffective because of it?
Also, I've heard of people getting the same green blobs out when ingesting oil that is not green, such as almond or macadamia nut oil. I believe the "stones" are made of bile mostly, which is green.
Is it too woo woo to believe that emptying an entirely full gallbladder then purging the intestines of the bile can't also get rid of some toxins? Isn't one of the functions of bile to carry toxins out of the liver? Isn't that toxin filled bile stored in the gallbladder? And aren't most bile salts reabsorbed and recycled for later use? Is it an impossibility that some of those toxins are reabsorbed as well? The good thing about the flushing protocol is that it completely rids the body of all the bile (and toxins).
I'm going to continue liver flushing. Even if it isn't 100% proven to work, wouldn't you at least want to try? There are too many stories of people having good results from it to not at least give it a chance for a couple months.
-----------------
I'm going to be doing the water fast on Feb 4th (ish) for anyone that wants to join me. Would appreciate someone else trying it alongside me.
@Persephina: PM me if you think this is a good date for you.
Does anyone else like the idea of fasting (basically no calories or fiber at all, just water) for a few days to lose a lot of fat (and therefore toxins)? I have read some pretty remarkable stuff about the body being able to detox and heal itself when it thinks it might not receive energy/nourishment. I can't think of a quicker way to rid the body of built up waste (like residual accutane). Any input is appreciated
Hi people,
I come from [removed]. My story: took propecia for two months (June-July) last year and stopped due to ED, thinking it would resolve itself (as the doc said). Fast forward to now, still have ED along with depression, anxiety, insomnia, gyno, muscle wastage, collagen wastage (sunken eyes, hands), fatigue, headaches, tinnitus, etc. etc. basically everything bad side effect that can happen has happened to me. I notice that there are a lot of symptom overlap between propecia and accutane people so I just came to this site to see if anyone here had some solutions. I think a lot of the overlap can be explained by these drugs inducing adrenal fatigue in us (at least I'm sure that is the reason for many of my symptoms). Problem is, adrenal fatigue doesn't really have a cure, as I'm sure you guys know.
Anyways, reason I'm posting here is because I'm going to get stem cell therapy next week (yes I am that desperate) and I would like to log my progress here instead of at [removed. I don't want to log my progress there because no one there knows I'm getting stem cells done over there and I hope that in a few months after disappearing from that forum I can make an epic return saying that I'm cured! (lol) It will be glorious (if it happens, which I'm not exactly expecting, mind you). But yeah the point is I want to log my progress here and then make a final, master post back at [removed after a few months if I have noticed substantial improvements. Hope you guys don't mind that.
The best thing that has helped me with ED is not masturbating. Dry skin doesn't bother me that much as my other side effects. My eye constintly twitches and Im not sure how to help that. Also my head feels fuzzy almost I would say it's mild brain fog. I've had an MRI and nothing came up. I stopped caffeine intake but nothing has changed. What is the best way to reduce those symptoms.
Hi people,
I come from propeciahelp. My story: took propecia for two months (June-July) last year and stopped due to ED, thinking it would resolve itself (as the doc said). Fast forward to now, still have ED along with depression, anxiety, insomnia, gyno, muscle wastage, collagen wastage (sunken eyes, hands), fatigue, headaches, tinnitus, etc. etc. basically everything bad side effect that can happen has happened to me. I notice that there are a lot of symptom overlap between propecia and accutane people so I just came to this site to see if anyone here had some solutions. I think a lot of the overlap can be explained by these drugs inducing adrenal fatigue in us (at least I'm sure that is the reason for many of my symptoms). Problem is, adrenal fatigue doesn't really have a cure, as I'm sure you guys know.
Anyways, reason I'm posting here is because I'm going to get stem cell therapy next week (yes I am that desperate) and I would like to log my progress here instead of at propeciahelp. I don't want to log my progress there because no one there knows I'm getting stem cells done over there and I hope that in a few months after disappearing from that forum I can make an epic return saying that I'm cured! (lol) It will be glorious (if it happens, which I'm not exactly expecting, mind you). But yeah the point is I want to log my progress here and then make a final, master post back at propeciahelp after a few months if I have noticed substantial improvements. Hope you guys don't mind that.
Since you are about to spend what I estimate is ~$7,000 on stem cell therapy, hopefully you have considered these few things:
- Have you already participated, or are you able to participate, in the Baylor PFS study? http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9397&start=140
- Does stem cell therapy even work for PFS?
- Would the money you are about to spend on stem cell therapy be put to better use funding REAL SCIENTIFIC STUDIES into the underlying cause of PFS, some of which have already been published and point to PFS NOT being caused by adrenal fatigue? http://www.pfsfoundation.org/
- Are you about to be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous stem cell clinc, whose staff is adept at leveraging a patient's desperation towards lining their own pockets?
I'm good friends with an Accutane victim who got hit bad with PFS-like sides, even physical symptoms resembling loss of collagen, like you mention. She spent quite a bit on stem-cell therapy, yet is sufferring worse today than before the stem cells.
Please reconsider what you are about to do.
Thank you, Dubya, for being a good ambassador.
However, this thread is for ACCUTANE sufferers- let's not get derailed on other issues here. There are support sites, just like the one that person referenced, to help them. This is one of the bare few we have.
Modeaa- are you just speculating or are you actually testing your hypotheses with supplements on the iron/molybdenum/manganese supplements theory?
Thanks all~
Hi people,
I come from propeciahelp. My story: took propecia for two months (June-July) last year and stopped due to ED, thinking it would resolve itself (as the doc said). Fast forward to now, still have ED along with depression, anxiety, insomnia, gyno, muscle wastage, collagen wastage (sunken eyes, hands), fatigue, headaches, tinnitus, etc. etc. basically everything bad side effect that can happen has happened to me. I notice that there are a lot of symptom overlap between propecia and accutane people so I just came to this site to see if anyone here had some solutions. I think a lot of the overlap can be explained by these drugs inducing adrenal fatigue in us (at least I'm sure that is the reason for many of my symptoms). Problem is, adrenal fatigue doesn't really have a cure, as I'm sure you guys know.
Anyways, reason I'm posting here is because I'm going to get stem cell therapy next week (yes I am that desperate) and I would like to log my progress here instead of at propeciahelp. I don't want to log my progress there because no one there knows I'm getting stem cells done over there and I hope that in a few months after disappearing from that forum I can make an epic return saying that I'm cured! (lol) It will be glorious (if it happens, which I'm not exactly expecting, mind you). But yeah the point is I want to log my progress here and then make a final, master post back at propeciahelp after a few months if I have noticed substantial improvements. Hope you guys don't mind that.
Since you are about to spend what I estimate is ~$7,000 on stem cell therapy, hopefully you have considered these few things:
- Have you already participated, or are you able to participate, in the Baylor PFS study? http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9397&start=140
- Does stem cell therapy even work for PFS?
- Would the money you are about to spend on stem cell therapy be put to better use funding REAL SCIENTIFIC STUDIES into the underlying cause of PFS, some of which have already been published and point to PFS NOT being caused by adrenal fatigue? http://www.pfsfoundation.org/
- Are you about to be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous stem cell clinc, whose staff is adept at leveraging a patient's desperation towards lining their own pockets?
I'm good friends with an Accutane victim who got hit bad with PFS-like sides, even physical symptoms resembling loss of collagen, like you mention. She spent quite a bit on stem-cell therapy, yet is sufferring worse today than before the stem cells.
Please reconsider what you are about to do.
Hi, yes I do know exactly what I am getting myself into. I realize that I may be getting scammed but I have the money and I don't think I can get any worse honestly so I don't really care. Don't think I haven't tried everything else. I have taken all the supplements I can, I eat healthy, I work out like an animal, I don't drink, etc. etc. but I have seen pretty much no improvement over the past months.
And yes I have participated in the Baylor study. I'm sorry to say to you but I do not think anything will come of the study. I don't know what your vision of the study is but it's literally just one guy and his assistant. It's not some crack team of scientists working on a cure. It's just one guy. He got blood and urine tests from me, saw that my dht was in range (it was on the low end, though) and told me that I don't need any treatment. That is the only marker he was looking at, dht. I told him my vitamin D was low and he said yeah it is go take some vitamin D tablets. I told him even though my dht is in range I still have ED and he said yeah go take some Cialis. I guess he also took an ultrasound of my dick and said it was "mostly normal" and he took a biopsy of my balls for genetic testing. The genetic testing results won't be available for another few months but I'm not holding out hope on anything coming from that. Either there is no genetic predisposition to this and we all are screwed or there is a genetic predisposition and we're still screwed but maybe there will be some kind of treatment in a decade or something. You're out of your mind if you think I'm gonna wait around for that.
But I understand I didn't take accutane so if you don't want me to post here, I respect that.
Indigo Rush stated earlier that he had copper toxicity. Copper is now coming into discussion again, and I believe it might be worth investigating.
I have mentioned earlier that a night of heavy alcohol consumption (ethanol) has been the only thing where my skin has felt normal for a day, my erection angle also significantly improves as well. I did some researching and alcohol has been shown to directly effect copper levels in the bod...or rats at least .
Study on rats: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2352478
There was another spannish study from "Science of the Total Environment" I was reading but for the life of me I can't find it. This just of it was that ethanol reduced copper levels in the blood.
Right now Manganese and Zinc are the main minerals that compete with Copper. I think that could be one of the reasons why Tryingtohelp's advice with Manganese has helped many people. Choline is also turning out to be popular in regulating copper levels in the body.... particularly Wilson's disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis-choline_tetrathiomolybdate ....a combination of choline and some sort of salt. >< Choline pops up in other articles as treatment.
I found a really interesting read with supplements that can eliminate copper: IndigoRush you may enjoy reading this, it also talks about adrenals.
http://www.melissadianesmith.com/Articles/CopperOverLoad.html
Another copper toxicity read...so many parallels...
[Edited link out]
The following are typical daily amounts of supplements suggested for copper overload by Gittleman: 25-50 mg. zinc; 15-30 mg. manganese; 100-300 mg. vitamin B-6; 1000-3000 mg. vitamin C; and 30-60 milligrams lipoic acid.
Tryingtohelp: If manganese is interacting with copper to give us relief, we may need to step up our game with higher doses. (I haven't gone above 10mg and much higher doses are being suggested).
I understand that new theory's and yada yada yada are always being tossed out here, but I am really interested about possible copper toxicity. I am going to the doctor soon, can any of you suggest how to ask for some sort of copper toxicity test? Indigo Rush can you help me get tested mate?
I also wan't to try a higher dose of manganese, but I wan't to do some more research...im having trouble finding what I am looking for.
Another Copper Toxicity Link:
[Edited link out]
To help symptoms of copper elimination it suggests:
L-Taurine, Molybdenum, Choline... GB-3 (ox bile)...
For the people who say pot cures them...maybe its because marijuana increases adrenal activity which is used to eliminate copper? IDK?
On 1/19/2015 at 2:01 PM, Cbar1516 said:So everybody, I've got a plan.
I'm mulling over thoughts about putting together a presentational workshop on self-esteem, postitive-body image, acne, and the dangers of Accutane that I could pitch to the school boards and perhaps present in public schools.
Every parent's worst nightmare is having their child harmed by drugs, so it seems natural to me that there would be a lot of parents who might get behind the idea of warning kids about the dangers of Accutane. If we can scare kids away from cigarettes, booze, illicit drugs, and now perscription drugs, why the fuck can't we campaign against the dangers of Accutane to the demographic it's being pushed upon ?
I've got a lot of good ideas, and with teen suicide being such a hot topic these days, there would be some relevant emotional weight behind getting testimonies from the families of Accutane suicide victims. Survivors living with side-effects could also give testimonies. The theme of the workshop could be self-acceptance and positive body image, with Accutane use being likened to unhealthy behaviours like bulimia to look thin, complete with all of the same absurd health trade offs for the pursuit of vanity.
You may want to get in contact with these parents if you want to do something along those lines:
[Edited link out]
Although she is not focused on anti-Accutane measures, she apparently lost her son to the drug.
[Edited link out]
Another parent of an Accutane-suicide victim. I think she is still politically involved with trying to put a stop to the drug being given to children.
And yes I have participated in the Baylor study. I'm sorry to say to you but I do not think anything will come of the study. I don't know what your vision of the study is but it's literally just one guy and his assistant. It's not some crack team of scientists working on a cure. It's just one guy. He got blood and urine tests from me, saw that my dht was in range (it was on the low end, though) and told me that I don't need any treatment. That is the only marker he was looking at, dht. I told him my vitamin D was low and he said yeah it is go take some vitamin D tablets. I told him even though my dht is in range I still have ED and he said yeah go take some Cialis. I guess he also took an ultrasound of my dick and said it was "mostly normal" and he took a biopsy of my balls for genetic testing. The genetic testing results won't be available for another few months but I'm not holding out hope on anything coming from that. Either there is no genetic predisposition to this and we all are screwed or there is a genetic predisposition and we're still screwed but maybe there will be some kind of treatment in a decade or something. You're out of your mind if you think I'm gonna wait around for that.
It's understandable. Although I've never dropped that type of money on one treatment, I've personnally undertaken many more off-the-wall therapies from propeciahelp, all things male, and this thread than I'd like to admit. Apologies for the condascending tone of the previous post. There are so many PFS victims who are able to take part in the studies who haven't. I wrongly assumed you were one of them. Thanks for doing your part, even if you don't have much faith in the Baylor research.
If the protocol has remained the same as it was when the study was announced, there will be more than one doctor and his assistant mulling over your data and there's a lot of information that can be gleaned from one tiny tissue sample. We'll see. Glad to hear the results are expected to be published in a few months too.
Best of luck.
@Nick- There's no derailing this thread with irrelevant discussion; it's been a train wreck since long ago.
What have you guys used for testing vitamin and mineral levels? I was looking into life extension site, but I know all the tests they offer add up quick. I am going to try and get thyroid levels checked if I can get referred to a specialist, but I don't have money to spend hundreds of dollars on testing right now. What is the best course of action to start testing to get an idea. What tests might be useless, etc? I suffer mostly collagen issues, grey hair, brain fog, tinnitus, achy joints, vision. Basically most things except for ED. Thanks
What have you guys used for testing vitamin and mineral levels? I was looking into life extension site, but I know all the tests they offer add up quick. I am going to try and get thyroid levels checked if I can get referred to a specialist, but I don't have money to spend hundreds of dollars on testing right now. What is the best course of action to start testing to get an idea. What tests might be useless, etc? I suffer mostly collagen issues, grey hair, brain fog, tinnitus, achy joints, vision. Basically most things except for ED. Thanks
I used spectracell labs. Located quite a few deficiencies.
Does anyone have knots in their muscles? I have visible knots that I can see and feel. Also, my muscle fibers are quite thick. They feel swollen in some places like my chest. I also have muscle spasms and tics/tingling of the fingers,hands,wrists, and feet. I have PAINFUL fibromyalgia. Hurts to flex any muscle anywhere. Also, my blood flow is extremely sluggish. Anyone relate to any of these? Sidenote: I had red dots on my tongue and chronic acid reflux
il90 said:"the stones are olive oil and lemon / grapefruit juice mixed with the epsom salts and a little bit of the apple juice you've been ingesting for days. It's totally fake.
Just fyi, these green gallstones that apparently are passed during this 'liver flush' are nothing more than semi-solid balls made up of oil and acid. In other words, theyre nothing but a mixture of the olive oil and lemon juice that you drank the night before. These stones will melt if left out in the heat. True calcified stones from your body will not melt.
"Some of the liver flush supporters have also posted their own evidence proving that these so-called stones were formed in the intestines, not the liver or gallbladder. Various people have tested this by mixing red dye in the olive oil before ingesting it. When they collected the blobs from their feces and cut them open they found specs of the red dye in these blobs. Since the dye never travels to the liver, nor the gallbladder the only possible way for the dye to have gotten in to these blobs was to have formed in the intestines where saponification is well known to take place."
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I've only done 1 flush with no noticeable improvements but here's my couple of cents on the matter:
You're most likely right about the "stones" not being true calcified stones. However, who's to say the flush is ineffective because of it?
Also, I've heard of people getting the same green blobs out when ingesting oil that is not green, such as almond or macadamia nut oil. I believe the "stones" are made of bile mostly, which is green.
Is it too woo woo to believe that emptying an entirely full gallbladder then purging the intestines of the bile can't also get rid of some toxins? Isn't one of the functions of bile to carry toxins out of the liver? Isn't that toxin filled bile stored in the gallbladder? And aren't most bile salts reabsorbed and recycled for later use? Is it an impossibility that some of those toxins are reabsorbed as well? The good thing about the flushing protocol is that it completely rids the body of all the bile (and toxins).
I'm going to continue liver flushing. Even if it isn't 100% proven to work, wouldn't you at least want to try? There are too many stories of people having good results from it to not at least give it a chance for a couple months.
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I'm going to be doing the water fast on Feb 4th (ish) for anyone that wants to join me. Would appreciate someone else trying it alongside me.
@Persephina: PM me if you think this is a good date for you.
Does anyone else like the idea of fasting (basically no calories or fiber at all, just water) for a few days to lose a lot of fat (and therefore toxins)? I have read some pretty remarkable stuff about the body being able to detox and heal itself when it thinks it might not receive energy/nourishment. I can't think of a quicker way to rid the body of built up waste (like residual accutane). Any input is appreciated
Uhm, first I would seriously consider its validity when the ones who advocate it spur out lies, constantly, to get people into it. Why wouldn't they just start with the truth? You don't think it odd, that when one theory fails another is invented? As you said, the stones might not be real but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work in other ways. It's like saying yes I know I don't have cancer in my leg doctor, but what if I have cancer in the other one? Like why go there at all? We have proven it is fallacious, but then you continue regardless? Oh well.
The mechanics behind the 'liver flush' is that you should digest dangerous amounts of epsom salt (which should not be digested at all) with a high amount of olive oil. Before this, it is recommended that we should starve all day, and preferably only drinking ACV or apples for a week. After this 'flush' is completed we get explosive diarrhea with a bunch of disgusting green stones (that we should keep in the fridge as a badge of honor) popping out of us. We are weak days after, understandably. Do you understand the impact this can have on your body? You do understand that the body doesn't need detoxing, there is no such thing, and that it takes care of itself if it didn't you would not have the strength to even write this.
You say," I'm going to continue liver flushing. Even if it isn't 100% proven to work, wouldn't you at least want to try? " No, I will definitely not 'try.' Haven't you heard anything I've said? If I would just say yes fuck it lets try some explosive diarrhea just for the fun of it, after everything I've just said I would be a nut.