Acne.org Products
In my case, It seems I have psoriasis around my ears, temples and perhaps my forehead. Those areas were my major acne areas before starting accutane. Now those areas remain red and irritated basically all the time.
If accutane is "stored" in my skin, do you think Niacin flushing or extreme sweating would help get rid of it? Or is that an oversimplification?
Well if you developed the psoriasis after ceasing accutane and didn't have it beforehand yes, that's where the accutane is stored. I've tried niacin high dose to flush the skin and then i'd get into a FIR sauna. I bought my own sauna in my house a few years ago (still have it) and i used it for months on end. I'd go in the sauna for 2-3 hours at a time, even bought one of those sweat suits a boxer wears so i could run around the block to build up a sweat beforehand, after i took the niacin.
I'm afraid it doesn't work, or to be more succinct, it didn't work in my experience. I'm the same the areas i have the skin condition are the areas i had the acne, mainly my face unfortunately which has destroyed what little self confidence i had. But it's a bile problem.
In my case, It seems I have psoriasis around my ears, temples and perhaps my forehead. Those areas were my major acne areas before starting accutane. Now those areas remain red and irritated basically all the time
If accutane is "stored" in my skin, do you think Niacin flushing or extreme sweating would help get rid of it? Or is that an oversimplification?
Well if you developed the psoriasis after ceasing accutane and didn't have it beforehand yes, that's where the accutane is stored. I've tried niacin high dose to flush the skin and then i'd get into a FIR sauna. I bought my own sauna in my house a few years ago (still have it) and i used it for months on end. I'd go in the sauna for 2-3 hours at a time, even bought one of those sweat suits a boxer wears so i could run around the block to build up a sweat beforehand, after i took the niacin.
I'm afraid it doesn't work, or to be more succinct, it didn't work in my experience. I'm the same the areas i have the skin condition are the areas i had the acne, mainly my face unfortunately which has destroyed what little self confidence i had. But it's a bile problem.
Idk the technical terms anymore, I've read all the theories including telamose shortening. Accutane just dries you out.
Lets start posting things that work, even if life sucks. Round two of whats been working! Lets go!
For me:
1. Wake up, drink a glass of water. Feeling groggy for sure. No more coffee. Hardest part of the day other than general body pains.
2. Cook a breakfast! Gotta eat guys doesn't matter, gotta eat.
3. Relax if you have too or can for 30 minutes, morning brain reset.
4. Make money, even if its hard and generally hate building up to getting in the car and going, we have too. Be glad you have a car
5. Come home, eat some animal fat and veggies fried up in a stove top pan, so easy. Lots of vitamins and enzymes in animals, (hope they digest)!
Good foods:
Bacon
Tomatos
Green Red Peppers
(Above is literally all I eat)
Rice
Shrimp
Salmon!!!!
NO BREAD! You guys, you gotta go Paleo, I care about you all.
I recently realized I can't be eating eggs anymore, dunno why. They grog me out.
Keep it simple, and if we can grow our own, because if leaky gut is true and we arent filtering out toxins, THAT is a big problem.
I think its hardest for those newcomers that are first realizing their body is messed up. So welcome everyone, if youve been altered by accutane, you are part of my family.
I second the need to post what works to mitigate sides. I've been a proponent for this to be done on a single page, but unfortunately I have not seen many suggestions lately, apart from healthy lifestyles and abstaining from vitamin a-which confuses me because my body is never functioning great enough to tell if it hurts me anymore. I guess the only way would be to ingest large amounts or eat no vitamin a for awhile.
Back to the theories because it's the only way to try and understand without shooting into the dark. I'd say everything here had been tried and I don't see much more helping other than hormones or things related to stem cells.
I'm going to refer to 2 theories that imo explain the problem.
#1 accutane is still stored in the body due to lack of bile and proper metabolism.
-Is there no way to test fat cells or liver cells to determine whether it is still stored? Forget about the risk and discomfort someone would have to go through, but is it possible to determine this?
#2 tane caused damage to telomeres/ DNA damage. I understand how damage can lead to degenerative diseases and many of our symptoms. Why the red irritated face that had been present from early on? Is this auto immune that is secondary due to damage?
When DNA is damaged, this causes cell damage?
-can we test our genes to see what is upregulated or downregulated, such as Fox01? As this is expected to be the way tane operates, it seems rational to be able to test our genes-specifically these. I believe if these genes were still upregulated, I can rule out the storage of tane still in my body. I am not trying to add more theories. I would just like to be able to rule these out if possible.
I know I have read about the oxidative enzymes possibly been downregulated, which could account for many of my sides: tinnitus, grey hair, wrinkles and joint pain as a few.
In a righteous world we would be afforded the opportunity to be tested as a large group of people. Someone says the fox01 gene was shown to return to levels, but in how many people. Some people claim to have no side affects after discontinuing treatment, so is it to far of to think the studies focused on people who did not react differently.
Please inform me about the 23andme tests and what they can show. There had to be common t results we all share. I don't feel it should be so damn hard to tell us what happened. If you tell me it fucked my DNA and im aging quicker, I can handle it because at least I know what's going on with my body. Tell me I have a major disease if that's all that's going on. I believe a lot of our frustration is not necessarily because we encounter pain, lack of confidence due to physical and emotional changes, but not knowing why it is happening is most irritating and draining. After 13 years off it, I can accept my life is never going to be the one I dreamed but the same goes for people who get sick everyday.
I sincerely hope you veteran members and studied members can answer some of my questions. I'm at the point of concluding my quest for knowledge and putting it all in.
One last question- how does chronic vitaminosis A continue when people stop ingesting high levels? I remember the article about the (inuit ?) People eating all the seal liver and having toxicity but when I look up hyper vitaminosis A, it looks like the toxicity goes away when they stop eating the foods.
Thanks Chico for your replies. The theories have been talked about in detail in the past and it might seem like going backwards, but I feel I might have asked questions that have not been answered, or at least I don't understand. Thanks everyone.
****Please don't switch over from this post and talk about cbd and detoxes-we know the studies about detoxes and they're pretty easy to make your mind up and do it (then you will know if it works) everyone can probably benefit. I would really like to recieve some replies. Push on Comrades!
I'm no expert and i don't fully understand this, but it seems some scientist could have figured out what exactly happens whit the skin during treatment. And what we could do to get some moisture back. The article is about taking Evening Primrose Oil (EPO) to improve skin moisture
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252667/
From the article:
The human skin is rich in sebaceous glands, and the sebum excreted by these glands is primarily composed of tryglycerides, wax esters, and squalene23. Sebum analysis demonstrates that the major components of sebum differ from those of EFA24. Human skin is not able to biosynthesize GLA from the precursor linoleic acid (LA, 18:26), or arachidonic acid (20:46) from dihomogamma-linolenic acid (20:36), because of the absence of the enzymes delta 6- and delta 5-desaturase19,25. Therefore, EFA metabolites have to be synthesized in the liver and transported to the skin through the bloodstream. Because EFAs come strictly from the diet24, dietary supplementation with GLA-containing EPO skips the metabolic step of 6-desaturation of LA to form GLA26. Such a supplementation should compensate for the lack of EFA in patients treated with isotretinoin27.
Maybe it could help after the drug is stopped also, if the effects of the drug remain. Just a thought
Anyone interested in organizing large-scale public awareness stunts?
Obviously picketing outside of Roche's offices isn't feasible for all of us, but we live in a day and age where radical and sensational stunts can garner a lot of media attention. Sadly, the dozens of suicides linked to this drug have not been enough to garner any real media relevance.
I think that wide-spread, showy, attention-grabbing, LEGAL AND NON-VIOLENT publicity stunts would be a great start to bringing this problem to the forefront of the media's attention.
Maybe it's time we consider making "ACCUTANE SURVIVOR" merchandise. Setting up awareness booths at public events. Use art and showmanship to catch people's attention.
Look at how much media attention bullying has received. How can we elevate this issue of Accutane devastation to that level of prominence?
Maybe once it's perceived as a real, on-going problem, the world will be more interested in finding a solution. Meanwhile this shit is still on the markets, proceeding along as if none of the damage it's caused ever even occurred.
Grieving family members of suicide victims have been our most outspoken advocates. What can we survivors do to further this cause?
One thing I've been considering is approaching schools with the idea of hosting awareness seminars on the dangers of this drug, given that middle school and highschool students continue to be a hugely at risk demographic.
Hell, would any of you vets be interested in taking your vast collection of research and data and helping compile it into a digestible, informational presentation that could be circulated?
A friend of my mother's had a husband who was murdered at a NYE party over a decade ago by a drunk teen, and now makes a living going to schools and doing on the dangers of alcohol abuse. Canadian schools spend a huge chunk of time educating students about the dangers of illegal drugs, the majority of which are half as dangerous and permanently damaging as this legal poison being prescribed to these same kids. Pretty sure there's an opportunity here to help promote awareness.
I second the need to post what works to mitigate sides. I've been a proponent for this to be done on a single page, but unfortunately I have not seen many suggestions lately, apart from healthy lifestyles and abstaining from vitamin a-which confuses me because my body is never functioning great enough to tell if it hurts me anymore. I guess the only way would be to ingest large amounts or eat no vitamin a for awhile.
Back to the theories because it's the only way to try and understand without shooting into the dark. I'd say everything here had been tried and I don't see much more helping other than hormones or things related to stem cells.
I'm going to refer to 2 theories that imo explain the problem.
#1 accutane is still stored in the body due to lack of bile and proper metabolism.
-Is there no way to test fat cells or liver cells to determine whether it is still stored? Forget about the risk and discomfort someone would have to go through, but is it possible to determine this?
#2 tane caused damage to telomeres/ DNA damage. I understand how damage can lead to degenerative diseases and many of our symptoms. Why the red irritated face that had been present from early on? Is this auto immune that is secondary due to damage?
When DNA is damaged, this causes cell damage?
-can we test our genes to see what is upregulated or downregulated, such as Fox01? As this is expected to be the way tane operates, it seems rational to be able to test our genes-specifically these. I believe if these genes were still upregulated, I can rule out the storage of tane still in my body. I am not trying to add more theories. I would just like to be able to rule these out if possible.
I know I have read about the oxidative enzymes possibly been downregulated, which could account for many of my sides: tinnitus, grey hair, wrinkles and joint pain as a few.
In a righteous world we would be afforded the opportunity to be tested as a large group of people. Someone says the fox01 gene was shown to return to levels, but in how many people. Some people claim to have no side affects after discontinuing treatment, so is it to far of to think the studies focused on people who did not react differently.
Please inform me about the 23andme tests and what they can show. There had to be common t results we all share. I don't feel it should be so damn hard to tell us what happened. If you tell me it fucked my DNA and im aging quicker, I can handle it because at least I know what's going on with my body. Tell me I have a major disease if that's all that's going on. I believe a lot of our frustration is not necessarily because we encounter pain, lack of confidence due to physical and emotional changes, but not knowing why it is happening is most irritating and draining. After 13 years off it, I can accept my life is never going to be the one I dreamed but the same goes for people who get sick everyday.
I sincerely hope you veteran members and studied members can answer some of my questions. I'm at the point of concluding my quest for knowledge and putting it all in.
One last question- how does chronic vitaminosis A continue when people stop ingesting high levels? I remember the article about the (inuit ?) People eating all the seal liver and having toxicity but when I look up hyper vitaminosis A, it looks like the toxicity goes away when they stop eating the foods.
Thanks Chico for your replies. The theories have been talked about in detail in the past and it might seem like going backwards, but I feel I might have asked questions that have not been answered, or at least I don't understand. Thanks everyone.
****Please don't switch over from this post and talk about cbd and detoxes-we know the studies about detoxes and they're pretty easy to make your mind up and do it (then you will know if it works) everyone can probably benefit. I would really like to recieve some replies. Push on Comrades!
There is no real way of testing fat cells that i know of, maybe hair analysis but it usually only picks up minerals. There is a liver biopsy if your really far along, that may show signs of a damaged liver but it's not without it's risks and can be quite a dangerous procedure. Radioactive dye can be pumped into your bile ducts to deduce whether there is a blockage. But liver enzyme and liver function tests don't tell you whether you produce bile or not. The best way is by looking at your stool, if it's light coloured you can usually deduce a biliary problem from that.
Alot of people with accutane sides have low glutathione and low glucuronidation that may be to do with the bile it may be the chemical drain on the body taxing the bodys main antioxidant, i don't know. You hit the nail on the head, it sounds crazy but i'd actually be happy if the doctor told me i had primary biliary cirrhosis or something dreadful like that because at least it would give me a conclusive diagnosis to focus on and get better from. It's the not knowing that kills me, also the fact that the medical industry have completely discarded us, that i find most unsettling.
As far as the last question i like to explain it akin to steroid toxicity. Oral Steroids have a very similar liver toxicity to accutane, they also get removed in exactly the same way (glucuronidation). In fact it's steroid hormones and fat soluble vitamins that take up the majority of this pathway. This is an explanation of how steroids stop the bile from flowing -
"As the steroid enters the liver it forms what are known as 17-glucouronide metabolites(6). These metabolites will accumulate in the liver where they are believed to cause a down regulation of bile acid transporters(1,6). Basically, the bile acid transporters become clogged, bile can no longer flow in the liver, and THAT is when big trouble starts. How big? BIGGER than big."
"There are three main types of liver toxicity you may encounter; intrahepatic cholestasis, peliosis hepatis, and hepatic adenoma. Cholestasis is the most common side effect seen, and interestingly, all three of these toxicities are believed to be related and stem from cholestasis. Cholestasis occurs when bile flow through the liver is impaired. When this happens, products that are normally carried in the bile to the gut and excreted begin to build up within the liver. Not good! These products can in fact reach toxic levels and cause cell damage and death."
Basically when you ingest accutane your body makes a glucouronide molecule to in theory make the accutane more water soluble so it can be excreted. So it'll be 13-cis retiinoic acid glucuronide or all-trans-retinoyl-glucuronide. These glucuronides in large amounts signal the bile acid transporters to switch off, ie stop producing bile and they accumulate in the liver causing intra hepatic cholestasis. From then on the bile flow is blocked and the removal of the chemical all-trans-retinoyl-glucuronide can not occur so the body stores it in the fat cells or in the liver or wherever it can to protect itself.
Thats why stopping eating Vitamin A will not stop the chronic side effects (because the chemicals are still in your body) but it will stop the chronic side effects from getting any worse.
How many liver flushes have you done Walden Rev, included with a week of malic acid beforehand?
Yes they TALK about it, but where is the experimentation? I'm talking extensive experimentation following all of Andreas Moritz's steps. Enemas, malic acid, regular kidney cleanses, epsom salts, perfect timing and possibly 20 total flushes. Obviously congestion is highly personal, so perhaps there are those who need even more than 20, perhaps 50 even. I don't see why you would even need to give up liver flushes while trying out other possibly cures...manganese etc. and trying to get in contact with scientists.
Please point me the way to where that is in the thread?
I'm just going to repeat myself again. I am glad people aren't talking much about Andreas Moritz here on this forum. If you want more of this you could go to curezone.com, probably the most dangerous site ever for someone looking for a cure, but better than this being started here. Andreas Moritz died of cancer, after all his methods failed. So, if they din't work for the person who invented them, I don't see how they will work for any of us.
Just fyi, these green gallstones that apparently are passed during this 'liver flush' are nothing more than semi-solid balls made up of oil and acid. In other words, theyre nothing but a mixture of the olive oil and lemon juice that you drank the night before. These stones will melt if left out in the heat. True calcified stones from your body will not melt. This is why many people keep their stones from a liver flush in the freezer. Although why you would want to keep them at all is lost on me. Also, if they float they are not real gallstones. Real ones will sink.
They can be dangerous too. Please do some extensive research on this, from real scientists (not curezone). I know you will tell me that the pharmaceutical business would not make money on these flushes and therefore they are not recommended, but the truth is that they would still be used if they worked, especially in socialist countries. They are not though.
Please check this out:
I dont know about the rest of you, but my problems now are very similar to those of cystic fibrosis. And i must say I'm scared as hell. Enyone here have the same issues? And did your problems start after or during the treatment? I got very ill almost six months after finishing accutane. And now i have very light stools with lots of fat, and very dark urin. Do you think it could be accutane or could it be somerthing else? I have several other issues as well, but this just freaks me out, and it hurts like hell
**Flushes help for many people, including myself. A few people i've talked with have proclaimed it cured them. I've only done 6 but have seen lasting improvements. Not out of the woods. Will it cure me? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Don't knock it until you try it though. And don't believe everything you read trying to debunk liver flushes. It doesn't make soap lol Liver flushing for me showed a direct correlation with increased collagen production/smoothing of the skin for weeks following.
Hey guys I tihnk I'm onto something.. do you have any metals in your mouth? Like implants or crowns maybe with Chromium or Cobalt or Nickel? I think this can be some serious hazard and maybe can aggravate our symptoms.. I do have one and I'm planning to get rid of it even tho I will look so badly.
Keep it up!
ps: also I thinik the drlwilson protocol is good.. I sent a hair sample to the lab and I am waiting for the detailed instructions especially for me.. until now I tried to follow it by the ear like not eating bread, sweets, fruits.. drinking some carrot juice taking some kelp capsules and using the red lamp sauna and doing some coffee enemas. You might want to give it a try!
Hey guys I tihnk I'm onto something.. do you have any metals in your mouth? Like implants or crowns maybe with Chromium or Cobalt or Nickel? I think this can be some serious hazard and maybe can aggravate our symptoms.. I do have one and I'm planning to get rid of it even tho I will look so badly.
Keep it up!
ps: also I thinik the drlwilson protocol is good.. I sent a hair sample to the lab and I am waiting for the detailed instructions especially for me.. until now I tried to follow it by the ear like not eating bread, sweets, fruits.. drinking some carrot juice taking some kelp capsules and using the red lamp sauna and doing some coffee enemas. You might want to give it a try!
I have a retainer and it is made of wire. I had it already before I went on accutane. why do you think, there is link between a retainer and our symptoms?
Dude no body wants to read any more health articles
Vitamin A in high doses has perminant side, they are pretty obvious effects so stop researching everything and get on with it.
Flushes dont do crap for post accutane issues, cmooonnnnnnn
Suppliments? Don't waste your money.
Anti Depressants are good but I dont like SSRI's so I take a welbutrin tab.
KISS (Keep it simple stupid)
eat animal fat
you're getting annoying real quick. I love how you're vast experience over you're five years or less off the drug and 21 wise years on this earth makes you an expert. Thanks for the sage advice. I'm just going to get over it now. I'l make sure to give such advice to others who struggle with auto immune diseases and other illnesses. " I can't get out of bed today because my body hurts so much".(friend) (Me) " Don't worry about it! There's nothing you can do to change it, so get over it. " I bet I'll be making lots of friends. You're done. Go to the back of the bus kid! It's not my m.o to get into it with people but damn. If no supplements work and you don't base your health decisions upon accutane specific studies, then why are you here? If you have normal health, then it seems pretty simple to live healthy. And don't think I haven't lived with it for 12 years. It hadn't been until the last couple years that I have invested energy into research and this thread, due to biting the bullet and living with it. Someday you might be in the situation some of us are in now. I do give you credit for the attitude of being tough-that's how we have to live, but calling people noobs and acting self righteous is pretentious and rubs people wrong. I don't fault you, but I will be blocking you out of respect for others, so this doesn't dirty the b thread anymore.
Chico-I really appreciate your time and info man. I'd like to dm you and have a small convo with you. ItS not my intent to post studies and debate with you, but rather tap your knowledge quick, so ni can move on again and live my life with no fear. If I make up my mind, and come to my own conclusion, that is enough for me. I've read the studies, theories, etc- I have a couple more questions and I will make up my mind and move on strengthening my mind again. You have been more then helpful.
It comes down to this for me: I could care less about Karrs theory about telomeres because I can't do anything other than live healthy and follow some of Lamars suggestions from the beginning-which has helped-specifically borage and anti oxidants. I am ok with this.
I knew my body changed dramatically from the time I was on the drug and I never had hope it would get better, I just didn't know that it would get as bad now and perhaps b in the future. I joined this forum so I could say I did my research at least once before it gets really bad-in the hope that I could adapt better in the future and not look back and say damn I wish I had known that.
I still would be interested in hearing quick replies about what is still working from you old timers. I think lamars post in the beginning about his protocol was extremely helpful and we'll layed out and could be a format that helps others.
The science is our guide for testing. I felt the thread was going somewhere with the generic testing but then dropped off. We have to share similarities with each other, whether it is gene mutations, upregulation or down reg of genes enzymes, etc. If that can be tested I don't know and I don't know if they can be treated somehow. This is an area I will have to look into.
I'm going to have to change my name to long winded. Lol. Thanks guys and I hope no offense is taken by my irritated spout with Washington. I'm not trying to take up more of this thread. I just had a couple of questions and plan on taking a break and focusing on getting healthier. Hope everyones week has gone well.
I dont know about the rest of you, but my problems now are very similar to those of cystic fibrosis. And i must say I'm scared as hell. Enyone here have the same issues? And did your problems start after or during the treatment? I got very ill almost six months after finishing accutane. And now i have very light stools with lots of fat, and very dark urin. Do you think it could be accutane or could it be somerthing else? I have several other issues as well, but this just freaks me out, and it hurts like hell
dude you should go see a doctor (real one)
**Flushes help for many people, including myself. A few people i've talked with have proclaimed it cured them. I've only done 6 but have seen lasting improvements. Not out of the woods. Will it cure me? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Don't knock it until you try it though. And don't believe everything you read trying to debunk liver flushes. It doesn't make soap lol Liver flushing for me showed a direct correlation with increased collagen production/smoothing of the skin for weeks following.
So why aren't they used? You can not use the term that they aren't appealing economically for the pharmaceutical business because hospitals use things like excessive NAC for drug overdoses and that is not something that pharmaceutical business can take advantage of either. You really believe that the medical field would leave out something that can actually cure any disease? You think that they would be that callous and evil? You think that they wouldn't find a way to make money out of this idea too?
I do think that business is business but if you think this of the western medicine then you need to apply it to ANYONE that makes money out of 'helping you' and that include Andreas Moritz, since they sell numerous of 'parasite kill' article and such.
You also have to consider the mental state of these persons that keep endorsing these methods, and also why they believe the american government (or big pharma) is hiding Andras Moritz or killed him. He is not big enough of a threat for this to ever happen.
I, personally, believe if you have had any success it is placebo. Maybe you just cleaned out your colon at the same time, killing some bad bacteria who knows. But the stones have, scientifically, been proven unreal.
Wish you all the best though, and if you believe you are getting better by doing this then maybe, psychologically, you are physically getting better.
you're getting annoying real quick. I love how you're vast experience over you're five years or less off the drug and 21 wise years on this earth makes you an expert. Thanks for the sage advice. I'm just going to get over it now. I'l make sure to give such advice to others who struggle with auto immune diseases and other illnesses. " I can't get out of bed today because my body hurts so much".(friend) (Me) " Don't worry about it! There's nothing you can do to change it, so get over it. " I bet I'll be making lots of friends. You're done. Go to the back of the bus kid! It's not my m.o to get into it with people but damn. If no supplements work and you don't base your health decisions upon accutane specific studies, then why are you here? If you have normal health, then it seems pretty simple to live healthy. And don't think I haven't lived with it for 12 years. It hadn't been until the last couple years that I have invested energy into research and this thread, due to biting the bullet and living with it. Someday you might be in the situation some of us are in now. I do give you credit for the attitude of being tough-that's how we have to live, but calling people noobs and acting self righteous is pretentious and rubs people wrong. I don't fault you, but I will be blocking you out of respect for others, so this doesn't dirty the b thread anymore.
Chico-I really appreciate your time and info man. I'd like to dm you and have a small convo with you. ItS not my intent to post studies and debate with you, but rather tap your knowledge quick, so ni can move on again and live my life with no fear. If I make up my mind, and come to my own conclusion, that is enough for me. I've read the studies, theories, etc- I have a couple more questions and I will make up my mind and move on strengthening my mind again. You have been more then helpful.
It comes down to this for me: I could care less about Karrs theory about telomeres because I can't do anything other than live healthy and follow some of Lamars suggestions from the beginning-which has helped-specifically borage and anti oxidants. I am ok with this.
I knew my body changed dramatically from the time I was on the drug and I never had hope it would get better, I just didn't know that it would get as bad now and perhaps b in the future. I joined this forum so I could say I did my research at least once before it gets really bad-in the hope that I could adapt better in the future and not look back and say damn I wish I had known that.
I still would be interested in hearing quick replies about what is still working from you old timers. I think lamars post in the beginning about his protocol was extremely helpful and we'll layed out and could be a format that helps others.
The science is our guide for testing. I felt the thread was going somewhere with the generic testing but then dropped off. We have to share similarities with each other, whether it is gene mutations, upregulation or down reg of genes enzymes, etc. If that can be tested I don't know and I don't know if they can be treated somehow. This is an area I will have to look into.
I'm going to have to change my name to long winded. Lol. Thanks guys and I hope no offense is taken by my irritated spout with Washington. I'm not trying to take up more of this thread. I just had a couple of questions and plan on taking a break and focusing on getting healthier. Hope everyones week has gone well.
Feel free to ask me any questions you have Deebo, my communication lines are always open and that goes for everyone on the forum. Anything you want to ask just send me a PM or ask me on here, i'll be more than happy to oblige.
As far as liver flushes go i've done about 20 of them and i only got stones out once, years ago. I think it's a bogus scam to be honest, a lot of alternative things are rubbish. Not diets and such i'm more talking about the liver flush, zapping, miracle mineral supplement. I remember when Matt Monarch was trying to sell this supplement Adya Clarity to everyone, it was like some bogus thing you put in water and it would purify it. They even had ads with algae growing on water and saying when they put it in streams it would clean up all the algae on the surface.
Anyway it was full of Aluminum and Iron. It was basically toxic metals in a base of Sulfuric acid and people were taking super shots of this and saying how they feel so much better. Monarch took all his youtube vids off youtube complementing the product. Liver flushing i think is bogus and whoever said curezone is a dangerous site i agree.
you're getting annoying real quick. I love how you're vast experience over you're five years or less off the drug and 21 wise years on this earth makes you an expert. Thanks for the sage advice. I'm just going to get over it now. I'l make sure to give such advice to others who struggle with auto immune diseases and other illnesses. " I can't get out of bed today because my body hurts so much".(friend) (Me) " Don't worry about it! There's nothing you can do to change it, so get over it. " I bet I'll be making lots of friends. You're done. Go to the back of the bus kid! It's not my m.o to get into it with people but damn. If no supplements work and you don't base your health decisions upon accutane specific studies, then why are you here? If you have normal health, then it seems pretty simple to live healthy. And don't think I haven't lived with it for 12 years. It hadn't been until the last couple years that I have invested energy into research and this thread, due to biting the bullet and living with it. Someday you might be in the situation some of us are in now. I do give you credit for the attitude of being tough-that's how we have to live, but calling people noobs and acting self righteous is pretentious and rubs people wrong. I don't fault you, but I will be blocking you out of respect for others, so this doesn't dirty the b thread anymore.
Chico-I really appreciate your time and info man. I'd like to dm you and have a small convo with you. ItS not my intent to post studies and debate with you, but rather tap your knowledge quick, so ni can move on again and live my life with no fear. If I make up my mind, and come to my own conclusion, that is enough for me. I've read the studies, theories, etc- I have a couple more questions and I will make up my mind and move on strengthening my mind again. You have been more then helpful.
It comes down to this for me: I could care less about Karrs theory about telomeres because I can't do anything other than live healthy and follow some of Lamars suggestions from the beginning-which has helped-specifically borage and anti oxidants. I am ok with this.
I knew my body changed dramatically from the time I was on the drug and I never had hope it would get better, I just didn't know that it would get as bad now and perhaps b in the future. I joined this forum so I could say I did my research at least once before it gets really bad-in the hope that I could adapt better in the future and not look back and say damn I wish I had known that.
I still would be interested in hearing quick replies about what is still working from you old timers. I think lamars post in the beginning about his protocol was extremely helpful and we'll layed out and could be a format that helps others.
The science is our guide for testing. I felt the thread was going somewhere with the generic testing but then dropped off. We have to share similarities with each other, whether it is gene mutations, upregulation or down reg of genes enzymes, etc. If that can be tested I don't know and I don't know if they can be treated somehow. This is an area I will have to look into.
I'm going to have to change my name to long winded. Lol. Thanks guys and I hope no offense is taken by my irritated spout with Washington. I'm not trying to take up more of this thread. I just had a couple of questions and plan on taking a break and focusing on getting healthier. Hope everyones week has gone well.
Feel free to ask me any questions you have Deebo, my communication lines are always open and that goes for everyone on the forum. Anything you want to ask just send me a PM or ask me on here, i'll be more than happy to oblige.
As far as liver flushes go i've done about 20 of them and i only got stones out once, years ago. I think it's a bogus scam to be honest, a lot of alternative things are rubbish. Not diets and such i'm more talking about the liver flush, zapping, miracle mineral supplement. I remember when Matt Monarch was trying to sell this supplement Adya Clarity to everyone, it was like some bogus thing you put in water and it would purify it. They even had ads with algae growing on water and saying when they put it in streams it would clean up all the algae on the surface.
Anyway it was full of Aluminum and Iron. It was basically toxic metals in a base of Sulfuric acid and people were taking super shots of this and saying how they feel so much better. Monarch took all his youtube vids off youtube complementing the product. Liver flushing i think is bogus and whoever said curezone is a dangerous site i agree.
What about colon hydrotherapy/ colon cleansing? I'm not sure whether I should invest money in one session or pay for my dance class. I do believe doing exercises such as dancing or yoga rather than pumping s*** out of my body will help my problems
You guys have been saying how bad you react to vitamin A, to be honest never happened to me after Accutane.
My fatigue and gut problems are at their worst when I'm really stressed about university and job hunting. I do wonder whether it is chronic anxiety or stress which caused all my problems or is it the fact that they caused Accutane to cause me problems. I didn't read the whole thread but i wonder why only some of us are affected by the drug so badly.
For a sufferer like me who has been having severe anxiety problems for three years, I do want to know whether I am curing myself in the right way. Is it really Accutane?
You guys have been saying how bad you react to vitamin A, to be honest never happened to me after Accutane.
My fatigue and gut problems are at their worst when I'm really stressed about university and job hunting. I do wonder whether it is chronic anxiety or stress which caused all my problems or is it the fact that they caused Accutane to cause me problems. I didn't read the whole thread but i wonder why only some of us are affected by the drug so badly.
For a sufferer like me who has been having severe anxiety problems for three years, I do want to know whether I am curing myself in the right way. Is it really Accutane?
Colon cleansing doesn't work, it's bogus. The concept of mucoid plaque is also bogus. It's just the Psylium in the product mixed with the charcoal and other bulking ingredients that form those muciod looking things. Actually the whole thing is potentially harmful. It's just a money making scam. The whole idea behind parasite cleanses is also bogus.
Hulda Clarke believed that parasites were the cause of cancer, she thought intestinal flukes made there way to the liver and caused liver cancer, again utter rubbish and 100% scientifically wrong. Same with Moritz and the liver flush.... the stones are olive oil and lemon / grapefruit juice mixed with the epsom salts and a little bit of the apple juice you've been ingesting for days. It's totally fake.
Theres nothing wrong with colon hydrotherapy, it'll remove a lot waste from the colon and make you feel better. But it's not long lasting. It may help active crohns or colitis if you do a colon hydrotherapy session then replenish the gut with aloe and probiotic rich foods, but it's not going to cure you. If it's intestinal and you know that 100% then you'd be better off adding raw sauerkraut and other healthy plant based probiotics to your diet. Eating a very clean diet, looking at raw foods, blending smoothies and so forth. But if i was you i'd pay for the dance classes.
To clarify, I'm not intending to turn this thread into curezone.com. I agree that the website is unbalanced and could do with a few more skeptics and those scientifically minded. Its a breeding ground for scams. I was just wanting to get your opinions and experiences, since majority of you have been dealing with this much longer than I have.
"It is our understanding that the cause of his death dates back to his serious health problems in early childhood.
At that time, the medical doctors in Germany diagnosed him as having juvenile rheumatoid arthritis and severe arrhythmia, amongst many other medical conditions. Unable to alleviate his ailments, and to the best of our understanding, the doctors did not give him much hope of surviving past his teen years or early adulthood; his life expectancy was short, and this is something Andreas has mentioned in several of his books and interviews."
^ If the above is true, it seems to me that he did a pretty damn good job dying at 58. But IMO that shouldn't be such a huge determining factor anyway in whether or not someone's theory/method is of value.
Chico Esposito, I hope you wouldn't mind me asking you a few questions about your liver flushes. I think it would be useful for newbs like myself and others who come to this thread and are curious about the legitimacy of liver flushes.
Could I know what basic steps you took in your liver flush? Did you take malic acid/apple juice/GCG a week before the liver flush to break up the supposed 'stones'? Did you do a kidney cleanse beforehand (I don't even get how kidney cleanses are needed anyway o.O)? And in what quantity for both?
I know Dr Clarke believed in parasite cleanses (something Andreas didn't advocate for liver flushing) and her liver flushes didn't include malic acid a week prior to the flush, which Andreas believed was crucial to its success.
Again, I'm not a believer in liver flushes, I just don't see the harm in experimenting and gathering more information on it, before writing it off entirely.
Anyone interested in organizing large-scale public awareness stunts?
Obviously picketing outside of Roche's offices isn't feasible for all of us, but we live in a day and age where radical and sensational stunts can garner a lot of media attention. Sadly, the dozens of suicides linked to this drug have not been enough to garner any real media relevance.
I think that wide-spread, showy, attention-grabbing, LEGAL AND NON-VIOLENT publicity stunts would be a great start to bringing this problem to the forefront of the media's attention.
Maybe it's time we consider making "ACCUTANE SURVIVOR" merchandise. Setting up awareness booths at public events. Use art and showmanship to catch people's attention.
Look at how much media attention bullying has received. How can we elevate this issue of Accutane devastation to that level of prominence?
Maybe once it's perceived as a real, on-going problem, the world will be more interested in finding a solution. Meanwhile this shit is still on the markets, proceeding along as if none of the damage it's caused ever even occurred.
Grieving family members of suicide victims have been our most outspoken advocates. What can we survivors do to further this cause?
One thing I've been considering is approaching schools with the idea of hosting awareness seminars on the dangers of this drug, given that middle school and highschool students continue to be a hugely at risk demographic.
Hell, would any of you vets be interested in taking your vast collection of research and data and helping compile it into a digestible, informational presentation that could be circulated?
A friend of my mother's had a husband who was murdered at a NYE party over a decade ago by a drunk teen, and now makes a living going to schools and doing on the dangers of alcohol abuse. Canadian schools spend a huge chunk of time educating students about the dangers of illegal drugs, the majority of which are half as dangerous and permanently damaging as this legal poison being prescribed to these same kids. Pretty sure there's an opportunity here to help promote awareness.
Great idea!
We could all benefit from contributing to political/medical/media/social action campaigns. If I was cool with going to prison for awhile, I would be up for some colorful publicity stunts. There is a risk that doing such things may be ignored and may very possibly get you into a world of shit at the same time.
At least it would be for a worthy cause in any event.
The RoAccutane Action Group was a big deal years ago and was making progress, but fell just shy. ...One of the keystone members of that group, Liam Grant, apparently had his silence bought by Roche (non-disclosure agreement or gag-order of some type). Some of us were making headway in late 2013, and a few low-profile news stories and a British Parliament meeting concerning RoAccutane came out of it, not to mention a statistical analysis of RoAccutane showing it was highly correlated with psychological adverse-reaction reports.
'
Something always lacking is strong and clearly-defined evidence of causation, and I believe that is what will ultimately give our community validation to cut through the blanket denialism by the medical community which has been holding us back.
In the meantime, if anyone has some bright ideas along these lines, I am up for joining in.
Some of you are okay with living the remainder of your lives from a self-help book. To each his own.
I personally couldn't live with myself just sitting back and letting this travesty continue to ruin my life and the lives of countless others without doing something about it.
I would definitely be interested in being involved in a collective protest.
It kinda frustrates me that there are so many that have abandoned this thread when we should all be banding together. We should be learning how to strive together, not letting petty quarrels tear us apart. It makes no sense to me
Chico Esposito, I hope you wouldn't mind me asking you a few questions about your liver flushes. I think it would be useful for newbs like myself and others who come to this thread and are curious about the legitimacy of liver flushes.
Could I know what basic steps you took in your liver flush? Did you take malic acid/apple juice/GCG a week before the liver flush to break up the supposed 'stones'? Did you do a kidney cleanse beforehand (I don't even get how kidney cleanses are needed anyway o.O)? And in what quantity for both?
I know Dr Clarke believed in parasite cleanses (something Andreas didn't advocate for liver flushing) and her liver flushes didn't include malic acid a week prior to the flush, which Andreas believed was crucial to its success.
I've done all of them, the standard apple juice every day for one week then the epsom salt olive oil / lemon juice flush (Moritz flush). I've done them with apple cider vinegar instead of apple juice. I've done the coke liver flush, the parasite cleanse before liver flush with products like humaworm. I've done 1-2 week juice fasts leading up to a liver flush. I can honestly say categorically it's a scam. You'd be better off investing your time and money into other areas.
I haven't really been keeping up with the forum lately because of all the bs of people arguing with others on here about all this supplement nonsense and whatnot. I understand some of yall really did a lot of research to try understanding what accutane did to us and respect that, but we all have something in common here. We are all suffering to some degree. Why not invest the time and energy doing research to actually do something and take action.
We need to put our minds together here on ideas to get attention. What cbar suggested is a good idea.
Let's continue this and turn this thread into something of great use from here on out!!!
We need to ALL agree on this in order for it to happen guys. Is everyone in or not!?!
Pathtorecovery91, I'm in.....I'm not sure what good I could do, its all quite strange to me, but I'm here if you guys ever need me ^^
Chico Esposito, I hope you wouldn't mind me asking you a few questions about your liver flushes. I think it would be useful for newbs like myself and others who come to this thread and are curious about the legitimacy of liver flushes.
Could I know what basic steps you took in your liver flush? Did you take malic acid/apple juice/GCG a week before the liver flush to break up the supposed 'stones'? Did you do a kidney cleanse beforehand (I don't even get how kidney cleanses are needed anyway o.O)? And in what quantity for both?
I know Dr Clarke believed in parasite cleanses (something Andreas didn't advocate for liver flushing) and her liver flushes didn't include malic acid a week prior to the flush, which Andreas believed was crucial to its success.
I've done all of them, the standard apple juice every day for one week then the epsom salt olive oil / lemon juice flush (Moritz flush). I've done them with apple cider vinegar instead of apple juice. I've done the coke liver flush, the parasite cleanse before liver flush with products like humaworm. I've done 1-2 week juice fasts leading up to a liver flush. I can honestly say categorically it's a scam. You'd be better off investing your time and money into other areas.
Thankyou for the response Chico c:
If liver flushing makes soap as you say it does, where were the "soap stones" the other 19 times?
It does work for some people. I've gotten stones out on every single occasion except one. But I am not here to convince people anymore. I just wanted to advocate that it helped me. And no, I don't believe it was psychological, and that is patronizing to even suggest, since I witnessed physical effects firsthand. Stop acting like you all know everything. If it works for me, leave it alone. I'm not telling everyone to go run and do it.