I'm pissed off that there are no solutions for many people that have permenant, lifelong acne. I have wasted thousands of fucking dollars over the years on derms and natural shitty methods and nothing has worked at all. I can try Accutane and then end up fucked up like everyone else in this thread, though.

Fucked up like everyone else in this thread? This is rude. Please leave, you are no good here!

 

It's the truth. though. I don't want to end up a screwed up individual with all of the side effects that everyone else has in here.

Good, stick around. If that makes one person stay away from accutane then it's worth it. If you've got severe acne you need to move your lymph system. Hormones increase in puberty, hormones are shuttled from your cells via the lymphatic system, if the lymph is congested you end up with acne because your backed up and the body uses the skin as the third elimination organ (skin is your third kidney). This is the same with ezcema, psoriasis, dermatitis it's all lymph.

Type in how to move lymph in google and start doing the things it suggests, rebounding, dry skin brushing, lymphatic herbs all of them and you'll see improvement's in your acne in time..

 

I'm pissed off that there are no solutions for many people that have permenant, lifelong acne. I have wasted thousands of fucking dollars over the years on derms and natural shitty methods and nothing has worked at all. I can try Accutane and then end up fucked up like everyone else in this thread, though.

Fucked up like everyone else in this thread? This is rude. Please leave, you are no good here!

 

It's the truth. though. I don't want to end up a screwed up individual with all of the side effects that everyone else has in here.

Good, stick around. If that makes one person stay away from accutane then it's worth it. If you've got severe acne you need to move your lymph system. Hormones increase in puberty, hormones are shuttled from your cells via the lymphatic system, if the lymph is congested you end up with acne because your backed up and the body uses the skin as the third elimination organ (skin is your third kidney). This is the same with ezcema, psoriasis, dermatitis it's all lymph.

Type in how to move lymph in google and start doing the things it suggests, rebounding, dry skin brushing, lymphatic herbs all of them and you'll see improvement's in your acne in time..

your body does NOT use acne as a way to detoxify! that is utterly ridiculous. inflammation is not a detoxifying response. acne is an immune response

here is a limited explanation

http://www.facingacne.com/detox-acne/

More manganese , probiotic and accutane connections

Pathway......Accutane ---> increased ROS levels> increased need for mnSOD > increased need for MnSOD meanwhile depletes the small Mn stores > L. plantarum 299 needs Mn to grow and survive > loss of L.plantarum > increased inflammatory response > IBD

The making of propanoic acid gives acne bacteria their scientific name, Propionibacterium acnes.

[Edited link out]

3) L. plantarum has a high growth requirement for manganese and can accumulate high

 

Enough with the ED bullshit. I bought Tribestan ( natural bulgarian tribulus; testo booster). I will keep you updated with the results.

try 5-10 mg of manganese and 500 mg of choline for a week

your body is not deficient it tribulus!!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942 doesnt do anything anyway

It did actualy.

After first pills I did have a big libido and weird sexual dreams. The fullness of penile has improved 50%.

But now my neck hurts very much and I am scared so I will wait a little bit. I fear of myofascial pain syndrome.. And I think tribulus has increased my tinnitus.

Anyway, I cut my two fingers with a knife, obviously I am not good at cooking I went to the company dr and he pescribed me cipro. Again I refused to take antibiotics. Now my fingers have healed. The body tends to heal..

I will try manganese and choline..

your body does NOT use acne as a way to detoxify! that is utterly ridiculous. inflammation is not a detoxifying response. acne is an immune response

here is a limited explanation

http://www.facingacne.com/detox-acne/

Have you ever heard of the term "lymphocytes"? they are your immune system, they are your immune response, the killer cell's, T cell's, B cells. The key word there is "lymphocytes" they are your lymphatic system. So what your trying to do is discredit what i've said by saying acne's got nothing to do with the lymph and that is "utterly ridiculous", then claiming it's an immune system response, without understanding the fundamental point, which is the lymphatic system is your immune system.

Cleaning the lymph helps acne.

 

your body does NOT use acne as a way to detoxify! that is utterly ridiculous. inflammation is not a detoxifying response. acne is an immune response

here is a limited explanation

http://www.facingacne.com/detox-acne/

Have you ever heard of the term "lymphocytes"? they are your immune system, they are your immune response, the killer cell's, T cell's, B cells. The key word there is "lymphocytes" they are your lymphatic system. So what your trying to do is discredit what i've said by saying acne's got nothing to do with the lymph and that is "utterly ridiculous", then claiming it's an immune system response, without understanding the fundamental point, which is the lymphatic system is your immune system.

Cleaning the lymph helps acne.

I dont understand....do you want more lymphocytes or less to cure acne? how will "cleaning/clearing" the lymph alter what the lymphocyte actually does? how will that cure your tane side effects? are we talking about the same thing? from everything ive read...70+% of our immune system resides in our gut.

ATOPIC DERMATITIS/ECZEMA The skin can overrespond to certain factors, causing activation of T lymphocytes and resulting in eczema, or atopic dermatitis.

Thats how i came across this link originally... people were healing themsleves of eczema with L. Plantarum. You train your body to not overreact with your gut. There arent many links between lymphocytes and accutane.

http://mrheisenbug.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/anthropology-science-is-l-plantarum-a-keystone-bacteria-for-human-health/

 

Enough with the ED bullshit. I bought Tribestan ( natural bulgarian tribulus; testo booster). I will keep you updated with the results.

try 5-10 mg of manganese and 500 mg of choline for a week

your body is not deficient it tribulus!!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942 doesnt do anything anyway

It did actualy.

After first pills I did have a big libido and weird sexual dreams. The fullness of penile has improved 50%.

But now my neck hurts very much and I am scared so I will wait a little bit. I fear of myofascial pain syndrome.. And I think tribulus has increased my tinnitus.

 

Anyway, I cut my two fingers with a knife, obviously I am not good at cooking I went to the company dr and he pescribed me cipro. Again I refused to take antibiotics. Now my fingers have healed. The body tends to heal..

 

I will try manganese and choline..

tinnitus is caused by the tiny tendons in your ear. its another big accutane side for some people. guess what helps that as well?

http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Mn%20for%20Tinnitus.htm

Also this:

Mn is needed for biotin utilization. Accutane has documented biotindase effects.

• Prevention of Alopecia (Spot Baldness) - A study on alopecia reported that all 19 participants were deficient in manganese. Several other participants also had problems with calcium absorption and zinc metabolism. After 2-3 months of micro-nutrient therapy normal hair growth was resumed.⁸

The effect of isotretinoin on biotinidase activity.

I'm pissed off that there are no solutions for many people that have permenant, lifelong acne. I have wasted thousands of fucking dollars over the years on derms and natural shitty methods and nothing has worked at all. I can try Accutane and then end up fucked up like everyone else in this thread, though.

First of all. I think most of us understand your frustration. I see people on a daily basis with terrible acne and can see the sorrow in their eyes. What you can't see is the pain and life changing effects of going on a drug most of us were urged to take despite not having the information available today. I will ask you "Do you like to gamble? ". Just understand that when you bet on black and lose it all including your house and the ground you stand one, you don't have a chance to build back your wealth! Trust me I the psychotic thought about wishing I could go back and undue the decision to take this drug. What if my dermatologist cared, what if a change in one daily event changed and led to me not taking these pills? Reality is I can't. I promise you that if you do take iy, you will be trading one problem for another which imo is far worse. Accutake will become your worst enemy that haunts you daily. How about when your out in the sun and your face burns easy. How about every second your ears are reminding you with high pitch ringing? How about every day when you shave or touch your face and it feels so irritated you want to rip your face off or when your eyes burn and are so dry you have trouble seeing? Night blindness, headaches, joint problems-I will stop there. AND when your in the shit, no one will understand except the people right here. You will be in a forgotten group of people with just your voice and your problems. I take the time to write this because I care. As a 30 year old male, it brings me to years thinking about other young kids being fed this poison. Should I care about a random stranger who others have found offensive? I don't have to but I do. It's your life and your gamble. Seems like some people make it out with little effects, but be reminded of us here and probably thousands of voices that aren't heard. I would do EVERYTHING in my power to heal your acne another way. Pretend like this drug was never made-it is not your miracle cure. To all others who are contemplating taking Accutane, I hope you read this and other posts so that you can fully understand the ramifications. To my fellow brothers and sisters, stay strong and fight. You guys give me the courage to continue forward, despite wanting to give up many times. If God is real, may he bless us all

 

 

 

I'm pissed off that there are no solutions for many people that have permenant, lifelong acne. I have wasted thousands of fucking dollars over the years on derms and natural shitty methods and nothing has worked at all. I can try Accutane and then end up fucked up like everyone else in this thread, though.

 

Fucked up like everyone else in this thread? This is rude. Please leave, you are no good here!

 

It's the truth. though. I don't want to end up a screwed up individual with all of the side effects that everyone else has in here.

You might chose to use less colorful language if you want help. We are not the "untouchables" in a caste system. You will realize as you get older and more life experience, that people with illness and problems are some of the toughest and most compassionate people who walk this earth.

Guys, I need some help. I choose not to read through the forum in order to have a more positive outlook. I've followed this thread for awhile, so I don't need a beginners guide. My eyes and face sting so badly it affects my daily. There are other problems but these are the more pressing issues at this time. I use drops and lotions for years but am looking for something I can try internally. Have tried baxyl as well. Does the manganese and cofactors sound promising? I am not any more special than the rest but I would greatly appreciate some help. Thanks guys and sorry for all the posts. When I pop back on, I hit it hard:) tinnitus is quite loud and problematic as well

On 11/24/2014 at 6:13 PM, Deebo said:

You might chose to use less colorful language if you want help. We are not the "untouchables" in a caste system. You will realize as you get older and more life experience, that people with illness and problems are some of the toughest and most compassionate people who walk this earth.

Guys, I need some help. I choose not to read through the forum in order to have a more positive outlook. I've followed this thread for awhile, so I don't need a beginners guide. My eyes and face sting so badly it affects my daily. There are other problems but these are the more pressing issues at this time. I use drops and lotions for years but am looking for something I can try internally. Have tried baxyl as well. Does the manganese and cofactors sound promising? I am not any more special than the rest but I would greatly appreciate some help. Thanks guys and sorry for all the posts. When I pop back on, I hit it hard:) tinnitus is quite loud and problematic as well

please try manganese.... please start small... 5 mg taken in the morning on its own. Plus eat manganese rich foods... nuts, seeds, berries, cocoa, cinnamon, maple syrup etc. Try it for a week, and please tell me if it helps the tinnitus! The more i read, tinnitus and joint problems point to Mn in a big way

i found this http://tinnitusmiraclehealingcure.blogspot.ca/ Starbucks hot chocolate! no doubt from the cocoa that includes Mn, but also zinc & copper to balance. [Edited link out]

Mn

B2 small

Choline (look for Alpha GPC)

Probiotic that includes L plantarum. Eventually, this will get you absorbing all of these supplements naturally from food

methylfolate

methyl b12

TMG

molybdenum small

occasional

vitamin D small

vitamin K2 small

potassium small

Hey do any of you guys have graying hair? I started seeing stray greys couple of years ago but now they are certainly noticeable on the sides. I'm white with blonde hair. No history of early graying in the rest of my fam.? My dad didn't start graying until he was in his 50's. Don't know about mom's side. I'm 12 years out and started to see grays probably 10 years out. If this is caused by accutane, which I think it was, what do you think causes this?

I won't ask about the wrinkles, because that is useless.

I know everyone doesn't get affected the same, but I had just dry skin issues right after and most of the years. Now I have more severe sides like premature aging after about 10 years and more inflamation. It's hard not to believe in the premature aging hayflick thing.Whats the point of having hair if its all grey? yehah. Good thing I look like a mad arian when i shaved my head! Damnit! Hey at least theirs hats:)

its sounds ridiculous, but this also could be Mn related. MnSOD is used to breakdown the H2o2. your hair is literally being bleached out from ROS stress

The body also produces the enzyme catalase, which breaks down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen. Or at least it does for a while. As we age, catalase production tails off, leaving nothing to transform the hydrogen peroxide into chemicals the body can release.

So, as hydrogen peroxide builds up, we go gray, concluded researchers at the University of Bradford in the United Kingdom, who last week published the results of a study in the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology's online journal.

Experimental Biology's online journal.

Reversing the process

"This new insight could open new strategies for intervention and reversal of the hair graying process," wrote the study's lead author John Wood, who died last month.

Along with the ED, I'm guessing this dry skin won't go away either. Including dry and red irritated eyes. I also have a question. Has anyone actually gone to the doctor and found a deficiency of minerals and vitamins and actually improved their symptoms

Along with the ED, I'm guessing this dry skin won't go away either. Including dry and red irritated eyes. I also have a question. Has anyone actually gone to the doctor and found a deficiency of minerals and vitamins and actually improved their symptoms

There seems to be a theme of low vitamin-D among former Accutane users. As for how many people have been helped by supplementing vitamins or minerals, you'll be hard pressed to find many, if any, either near or complete recovery stories.

That's just the way it is.

 

Along with the ED, I'm guessing this dry skin won't go away either. Including dry and red irritated eyes. I also have a question. Has anyone actually gone to the doctor and found a deficiency of minerals and vitamins and actually improved their symptoms

There seems to be a theme of low vitamin-D among former Accutane users. As for how many people have been helped by supplementing vitamins or minerals, you'll be hard pressed to find many, if any, either near or complete recovery stories.

That's just the way it is.

the post above your outlines part of the problem with supplements. its not as easy as taking a b complex to cure a vitamin b deficiency or just taking zinc. also, people take too much, or dont take it long enough.

i guarantee you, nobody on this board has taken manganese for four months with B2 and Choline and a probiotic. not that this is anything special (who knows, it might be) but thats just one of a million possible combinations. hell we just found out about the MTHFR genes a few years ago and which types of B's to take.

Here... anyone that is still experiencing dry skin, or dry eyes YEARS after taking accutane. go to your doctor and get a biotinidase test. i could almost guarantee you its low...but its not as simple as just taking biotin.

we are deficient in something, of that im sure.

Along with the ED, I'm guessing this dry skin won't go away either. Including dry and red irritated eyes. I also have a question. Has anyone actually gone to the doctor and found a deficiency of minerals and vitamins and actually improved their symptoms

After my first accutane crash, my blood test showed low b12, folic acid and vitamin D.

I had terrible tremor and my dr sent me to brain MRI and some stupid test with electrodes to test my brain waves. Nothing wrong came out except brain deficiency, no thats a joke. My brain is ok. But dr took a video of my hand tremor to show it to her colleagues because there was no reason that I shake that much. Anyway, after 6 shots of b12 to my butt, my tremor sympthoms improved very much. I still shake but compared to prior state, it is improved.

If manganese deficiency has something to do with my night blindness and there is some proof that manganese effects vision, I will be totaly convinced.

Hola,

I'm new to the posting but have been following for a few months. I want to begin by saying its awesome to see in this forum, and in other PSSD-specific forums, some pretty solid and intellectually engaged efforts to put this shit behind us. I took accutane in 1998 and again in 2002. Side effects hit me in 2003 and, while I've dealt with symptoms via somatic psychotherapy, I didn't make the accutane connection until recently. One course of treatment that helped me was 65 one hour sessions of neurofeedback, (NF) specifically training sites C3 and C4- also known as sensorimotor training. The psychological effects of accutane largely evaporated after doing (NF) and I felt much greater sensations in my pelvis. Plus: it was all covered by my American insurance. I still struggle with genital numbness- and I'm eager to follow other people's proposed solutions. (Rick Simpson Oil; progesterone). In the meantime, I'm doing an aggressive 6 month kegel health workout with 'The Private Gym'. ~A2Person

When using cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, how many pumps do you apply? 1 squirt? 2 squirts?

A manganese deficiency then causes choline to not be properly utilized which, in turn, reduces acetylcholine synthesis. This reduction in acetylcholine synthesis leads to myasthenia gravis.

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/myasthenia.html

If you read this article, its funny how they went from one treatment to another and then down to the actual cofactor in manganese to solve eveything.

Fatty liver and choline and betaine (TMG)

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/11/does-choline-deficiency-contribute-to.html

There are a number of other nutrients that reduce our requirement for choline in addition to methionine. One is betaine, which occurs most abundantly in wheat, spinach, and beets. Folate and vitamin B6 are also important. However, betaine, folate and B6 simply spare choline. We can actually use methionine to methylate a phospholipid called phosphatidylethanolamine to phosphatidylcholine, the principal choline-containing phospholipid.

Choline & accutane

All-trans- and 9-cis-retinoic acid enhance the cholinergic properties of a murine septal cell line: evidence that the effects are mediated by activation of retinoic acid receptor-alpha.

Accutane = ROS

manganese ---> choline ----> acetylcholine ----> ROS detoxification by way of SOD1 &SOD2

and then this study comes out a few weeks ago....

Acetylcholine Promotes ROS Detoxification Against Hypoxia/reoxygenation-Induced Oxidative Stress Through FoxO3a/PGC-1 Dependent Superoxide Dismutase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11880556 ''vitamin A, like its retinoic acid derivatives, can induce enzymatically active GNMT; and 2) inappropriate induction of GNMT can lead to a biologically important loss of methyl groups and the subsequent impairment of essential transmethylation processes''

I dont know, this study is basically a smoking gun to me... and points to a possible treatment/cure. everyone asking ...what does methylation have to do with accutane?? well there it is! its in black and white. fix the things that accutane has been proven to cause a deficiency in. kind of excited.

we need to take everything that restarts/supports this process.

probiotic helps assimilate and produce b vitamins

Methylation process:

b1

b2

biotin

methylfolate

methylb12

choline (methyl donor)

TMG (methyl donor)

MN (for mnSOD and needed for B vitamin activation and storage)

molybdenum (sufite to sulfate)

Activation and induction of glycine N-methyltransferase by retinoids are tissue- and gender-specific.

Hey I got my 23andme results yesterday. So its official, I'm about 99% European, which is awesome.

But can anyone tell me how I get my health results, as they dont do that anymore? I remember reading ages ago that there is another website where I put my genetic data and and voila it will tell me my genes. Is that correct?

I had an MRI on my brain done a few weeks ago. Everything was a ok.

I had a $140 salivary cortisol test done which showed elevated cortisol. Instead of going down throughout the day, mine was going up! Amazing. I've been takin relora and feeling much better.

I also had a $400 organic acids test done. Most things there were good. Methylation, neurotransmitters all that were good. I was extremely low in sulfate though which said chronic low glutathione levels. Also elevated suberate levels which means my body is burning fatty acids outside the cells instead of in them? How does that work I do not know. And also a few mitochondrial hiccups which meant low energy levels. I'm waiting for all the necessary supplements to arrive from iherb so I can try them out. Carnitine and NAC and a few others.

Cheers

Hey I got my 23andme results yesterday. So its official, I'm about 99% European, which is awesome.

But can anyone tell me how I get my health results, as they dont do that anymore? I remember reading ages ago that there is another website where I put my genetic data and and voila it will tell me my genes. Is that correct?

 

 

I had an MRI on my brain done a few weeks ago. Everything was a ok.

I had a $140 salivary cortisol test done which showed elevated cortisol. Instead of going down throughout the day, mine was going up! Amazing. I've been takin relora and feeling much better.

I also had a $400 organic acids test done. Most things there were good. Methylation, neurotransmitters all that were good. I was extremely low in sulfate though which said chronic low glutathione levels. Also elevated suberate levels which means my body is burning fatty acids outside the cells instead of in them? How does that work I do not know. And also a few mitochondrial hiccups which meant low energy levels. I'm waiting for all the necessary supplements to arrive from iherb so I can try them out. Carnitine and NAC and a few others.

Cheers

My cortisol levels revealed the same thing for my adrenals. For a while I was taking Adrenal support and I'm now starting another. I think it helped maintain better energy levels. My sleep schedule is messed up too though, admittedly. Will you be supplementing glutathione?

This whole methylation talk is quite interesting.

Hey I got my 23andme results yesterday. So its official, I'm about 99% European, which is awesome.

But can anyone tell me how I get my health results, as they dont do that anymore? I remember reading ages ago that there is another website where I put my genetic data and and voila it will tell me my genes. Is that correct?

 

 

I had an MRI on my brain done a few weeks ago. Everything was a ok.

I had a $140 salivary cortisol test done which showed elevated cortisol. Instead of going down throughout the day, mine was going up! Amazing. I've been takin relora and feeling much better.

I also had a $400 organic acids test done. Most things there were good. Methylation, neurotransmitters all that were good. I was extremely low in sulfate though which said chronic low glutathione levels. Also elevated suberate levels which means my body is burning fatty acids outside the cells instead of in them? How does that work I do not know. And also a few mitochondrial hiccups which meant low energy levels. I'm waiting for all the necessary supplements to arrive from iherb so I can try them out. Carnitine and NAC and a few others.

Cheers

Hee, long time lurker.

Got symptons like the most of you. Fixed most due time or supps. Now left with slow healing rate and joint aches. Also very fast allergies. I think my immune system is broken and I'm hoping for Kefir + Colostrum to heal that ( and a good diet ofcoure ).

Tryingtohelp2014 just explained in a post on this page that Molybdenum converts to Sulfate. So lets give that a try.

I was ordering Molybdenum already because it is used as a anti die-off candida remedy. I think I have a overgrowth of Candida also.

I'm combatting the candida with

Thorne SF722 which has 10-undecenic-acid in it. This is believe the best anti Candida fungal there is.

Molybdenum

Dandelion for liver support.

Kefir for the pro-biotics. Has anyone had good experience with Kefir already ? I have very high hopes for Kefir.

This I will buy for the Protocol

Manganese 15 Mg.

Thorne Basic B-Complex <--- Do you think this is too high ?

CHoline + Inositol

TMG

Biotin

So the missing link in all the protocols should be Manganese. Because except for Manganese all these supplements are heavily tested by the forum.

Lets give it a try.

 

Hey I got my 23andme results yesterday. So its official, I'm about 99% European, which is awesome.

But can anyone tell me how I get my health results, as they dont do that anymore? I remember reading ages ago that there is another website where I put my genetic data and and voila it will tell me my genes. Is that correct?

 

 

I had an MRI on my brain done a few weeks ago. Everything was a ok.

I had a $140 salivary cortisol test done which showed elevated cortisol. Instead of going down throughout the day, mine was going up! Amazing. I've been takin relora and feeling much better.

I also had a $400 organic acids test done. Most things there were good. Methylation, neurotransmitters all that were good. I was extremely low in sulfate though which said chronic low glutathione levels. Also elevated suberate levels which means my body is burning fatty acids outside the cells instead of in them? How does that work I do not know. And also a few mitochondrial hiccups which meant low energy levels. I'm waiting for all the necessary supplements to arrive from iherb so I can try them out. Carnitine and NAC and a few others.

Cheers

Hee, long time lurker.

Got symptons like the most of you. Fixed most due time or supps. Now left with slow healing rate and joint aches. Also very fast allergies. I think my immune system is broken and I'm hoping for Kefir + Colostrum to heal that ( and a good diet ofcoure ).

Tryingtohelp2014 just explained in a post on this page that Molybdenum converts to Sulfate. So lets give that a try.

I was ordering Molybdenum already because it is used as a anti die-off candida remedy. I think I have a overgrowth of Candida also.

I'm combatting the candida with

Thorne SF722 which has 10-undecenic-acid in it. This is believe the best anti Candida fungal there is.

Molybdenum

Dandelion for liver support.

Kefir for the pro-biotics. Has anyone had good experience with Kefir already ? I have very high hopes for Kefir.

This I will buy for the Protocol

Manganese 15 Mg.

Thorne Basic B-Complex <--- Do you think this is too high ?

CHoline + Inositol

TMG

Biotin

So the missing link in all the protocols should be Manganese. Because except for Manganese all these supplements are heavily tested by the forum.

Lets give it a try.

Thorne SF722

Has bacillus coagulans as the main strain? ive been reading about this one as well besides L Plantarum. guess what mineral they both need to spread in a dish? manganese! http://www.himedialabs.com/TD/M931.pdf

i didnt find the kefir drinks as potent as when i took the NOW 25 10 strain pills. this totally knocked out my stomach issues.

make sure you dont get the cheap Choline salt.

b complex is not as good as individual dosing

ramp up to 15mg of manganese slowly. start with 5 and eat manganese rich foods. must be taken on empty stomach ...away from other foods or supplements.

Thorne SF722 = Pure for anti-candida. No pro-biotics in it.

Cougulans <---- Haven't found this one in combination with others. It is said that this one reaches all the way trough the intestines

I think I go with these pro-biotics.

Did you make Kefir your own ?

So what is your current time-line with Manganese supplementing ?