tryingtohelp2014

about Glycine N-Methyltransferase

If i get what you said right

Glycine N-Methyltransferase enzyme becoming hyperactive from accutane.

NORMALLY folate can downregulate it.

here, it(folate) is also depleted in overactivating the Glycine N-Methyltransferase enzyme that we want it to downregulate.

It was suggested that potentially (but only theoretically so far), unknown large ammount of folate might downregulate this enzyme after accutane.

The enzyme deplete our importent SAMe also.

so far this is what i was able to grasp about this.

from that I wonder if:

1)this GNMT enzyme hyperactivation serves as a beneficial thing to the body in accutane users(to correct something that the drug done)

or

2)GNMT enzyme hyperactivationis from accutane is just a consequense of the drug causing random erors in the body and so this enzyme get hyperactivate for no good.

I have a reason to suspect no.1 because according to wiki this enzyme participates in the detoxifiaction pathway in liveer cells .

so IF no.1 is true i also wonder:

maybe supporting this enzyme to keep working can help to eventually downregulate it(it will finish some job it has to do in the body and then it will come down) . after it's downregulation the importent SAMe will stop to deplete along with the folate(and maybe more things)-problem solved.

folate is suggested to do all this but i wonder if some other factors are needed along with it to help the enzyme work( and to eventually slowly become downregulate -as more job by him get done there is less to be done so it can come down )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine_N-methyltransferase

''

In enzymology, a glycine N-methyltransferase (EC 2.1.1.20) is an enzyme that catalyzes the chemical reaction

 

 

S-adenosyl-L-methionine + glycine S-adenosyl-L-homocysteine + sarcosine

 

Thus, the two substrates of this enzyme are S-adenosyl methionine and glycine, whereas its two products are S-adenosylhomocysteine and sarcosine.

''

In addition to folate does taking any of the substrates or the products can help? if so what are they in food or supps exactly?

other factors to help tthis enzyme work?

if you think 2) is more likely then avoiding supporting this enzyme is advised?

did you or other got checked there folate level?

you mentioned molybdenum and manganese, are you taking them?

what else are you taking right now?

Thaghts on milk thistle dandelion root and other liver supoorting herbs is welcome, my wonder about them is that i read they raise glutathione which i read that in it production deplete b12 and folate, and how this might connect to this GNMT enzyme PROBLEM.

i know those are alot of qustions, hope you can answer some.

by the way, all this science thing took me alot to understand and this is only about this enzyme ,i wont understand maybe other complicated things, though i will try, and i am not orignally speaking english too.

you ARE on it. ill need more time to get this all together, but it seems to make sense... but yes, there needs to be something else to support the folate absorption and utilization. its not as easy as taking 1000s of methylfolate. if it was that easy, it wouldve been solved the first week. you need co-factors! your body is trying to do the right thing by activating enzymes( but its like stepping on the gas and leaving it full throttle ...the gas(cofactors) get used up fast) cofactors get used in the 4+ months of treatment. your blood cells have a half life of 120 days... so for this drug to totally saturate every cell takes at least 4 months

co factors... think about the entire pathway. i.e mnSOD manganese ---> needed for b1 b2 biotin, choline utilization ---->... b1 b2 needed for b6 b12 and folate utilization----> b6 b12 trimethylglycine needed for SAMe / glutathione ... SAMe is needed to balance SAH. the SAMe /SAH ratio gets messed up as well.

and thats why i said this wont be solved by first level thinking.... if you take b12 and folate and start to methylate while being already low in B2, you drain what little you have and you could cause more harm than good.

moly is just another example... its a co-factor and needed to convert sulfite to sulfate which along with manganese to produce hyaluronic acid. we are literally drying out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! be it from low hyaluronic acid, to low biotin (biotinase deficiency is also confirmed with using accutane)

people often start out too fast, too much, causing the exact symptoms they are trying to fix. they are starting one part of the engine and then have no oil to run it.... and then they give up and dont take it long enough.

Ok, I have shipped off my 23andme.com saliva speci. Does anybody know how long it will take to get results, and what is the website I go to to get the health report? 23andme made plain they dont give out health advice at all.

Also today I'm picking up my LDN pills. The doctor agreed its worth a try after I told him about some people getting results off this forum. He said he has tried it a dozen times on other patients with no help unfortunately. Well, Ill see how I go on it. Ive got a few supps to experiment with frist and then Ill try it out maybe in a week or two.

 

Back to tryingtohelps ncbi link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3219165/

Accutane upregulates the Fox01 gene. Now how to fix it. Does anybody know how to downregulate it? Would this fix the problem? Or just give us acne again.

The author of this research paper is a German professor who works close to the place where I live. I contacted him a couple of months ago via email and asked exactly this question. His answer was, that the Fox01 gene reaches its normal level again after you stop taking accutane. accutane only has an effect as long as you take it. The professor wrote, that in 25 years of clinical praxis he has not seen one case with irreversibel side effects. This was his answer (and not my opinion).

Ask him why it was pulled off the american market then? Ask him why we have IBS, dry skin etc that hasnt disappeared. Hopefully he will run experiments on us and then we will know the answer.

Timatron: I have a big paper on the effects of effects of Accutane revolving around Fox01, if you would like it PM me your email address.

Check out this study. It shows the effectiveness of progesterone/testosterone cream for ED on guys as young as 21. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0167418.html

Nice find!

Where can I get this progesterone cream? I have test cream but dont use it much. After a few days on it I dont feel well. I only use it after heavy workouts or a big day out. It really helps with recovery.

What about pregnenolone? I bought tablets from iherb but they just gave me diarrhoea. But I think it started helping with feeling well/recovery.

i think i have exciting news. i have a theory and i found a very important link and potential treatment for people suffering joint pain, dry skin, fragile skin, eye floaters, hair falling out/thinning, IBS, ear ringing. it will take me time to write this out... but i have to work now. i will have it up by the weekend.

"You can trace every sickness, every disease, and every ailment to a mineral deficiency." - Dr. Linus Pauling, two-time Nobel Prize winner

Man I hope you have the answer! That would be great. I will give you a lot of money if you cure me.

Crank92: check this out re Pro 5ARs: http://anabolicmen.com/dihydrotestosterone/

I'm going to try and get my hands on sorghum wheat

Timatron, I saw they have some on amazon. They have quite many different brands. Most are made for women. I read somewhere that if a guy uses it to use anywhere from 8 to 10 mg. Most of them contain high amounts per volume so you would likely only be using a fraction of a teaspoons worth. Also if you are using it for ed I believe I read to apply on your scrotum.

But do your own research like crank mentioned to make an

informed decision for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A#Treatment

''Taurine - significantly reduces toxic effects in rats.^[34] Retinoids can be conjugated by taurine and other substances. Significant amounts of retinotaurine are excreted in the bile,^[35] and it is believed this retinol conjugate is an excretory form as it has little biological activity.^[36]''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

''Taurine is a derivative of cysteine''

One of the substrates of GNMT ENZYME can turn into cysteine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl-L-homocysteine

''S-Adenosyl-L-homocysteine (SAH) is an amino acid derivative used in several metabolic pathways in most organisms. It is an intermediate in the synthesis of cysteine and adenosine.''

ive taken taurine before... ive even taken TUDCA... doesnt work as expected... it might actually be bad if you dont have the cofactors

NOW 25 billion 10 strain probiotic

Manganese 5mg 1/2 capsule empty stomach (joint pain decreasing which is incredible. i think accutane depletes this one for sure. is needed for so many of our side effect from eye floaters (collagen problem), sexual libido, to adrenals, to thyroid, to detox.) google bill walton and manganese.

b1 needed with manganese ... small

b2 small portion of pill

choline (bile flow & needed to store manganese in liver ) http://www.marksdailyapple.com/2-more-common-nutrient-deficiencies-and-what-to-do-about-them/#axzz3J4akaFks

The body can produce choline, with the help of vitamin B12, folic acid and methionine. Natural choline production however, may not always be adequate to meet daily needs. Studies show that diets deficient in choline lead to undesirable changes to liver, kidney and brain functions. There is no established daily recommended intake for choline, but the average diet supplies between 500 mg and 1,000 mg of choline daily

b6 active 25 mg

b12 active 1000mg sublingual

folate active 800 mcg

TMG 1000-3000mg (i think this ultimately will work in detoxifying the liver) this along with the other here will naturally produce SAMe

Biotin

molybdenum 75mcg sulfites to sulfates

D3 occasional

K2

E

http://barefootandsoul.com/tag/glucuronidation/

http://www.dcnutrition.com/Minerals/detail.cfm?RecordNumber=80

http://www.mensahmedical.com/images/Depression_PP_2.pdf

http://www.dcnutrition.com/Minerals/abstracts.cfm?RecordNumber=80

7. aids biosynthesis of glucuronic acid --needed for detoxification purposes.

Enough with the ED bullshit. I bought Tribestan ( natural bulgarian tribulus; testo booster). I will keep you updated with the results.

Enough with the ED bullshit. I bought Tribestan ( natural bulgarian tribulus; testo booster). I will keep you updated with the results.

try 5-10 mg of manganese and 500 mg of choline for a week

your body is not deficient it tribulus!!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942 doesnt do anything anyway

tryingtohelp2014

do you think that there might be a need for a boron too,like it got wasted by the accutane as Manganese?

i know i'm being a little bothering with all my qustions but you seems the only one here who focus on methylation and enzymes and all that. thak you

from a different website explaining what goes on with B2 and manganese.....

His retest chart indicates that his stores of B2 have not begun to improve. However, his iron and copper indicate much better usage by the liver. Better usage = elimination as well as ability of the liver to manufacture more carrier proteins to work with the extra iron. His manganese level is coming up, indicating that he has enough B2 to convert Folic acid to its active form, which activates choline, which allows the liver to store manganese. When you can retain manganese, the ER structures in the liver keep healing and as they heal more iron and copper can be released.

im sure boron is helpful and needed but can also interact and inhibit B2. i want to focus on a few different things first. as far as toxicity, 5-10 daily mg seems to be very safe, as its in a lot of the popular joint supplements, and if you read the studies on toxicity, its almost always from inhaled mine dust. it best taken and absorbed on an empty stomach an hour or two before meals....this will also stop hindering any other minerals from being absorbed.

Chico, if youre reading this, please try b2 , manganese, and choline.... we seem to have the same exact side effects.

Timatron, I saw they have some on amazon. They have quite many different brands. Most are made for women. I read somewhere that if a guy uses it to use anywhere from 8 to 10 mg. Most of them contain high amounts per volume so you would likely only be using a fraction of a teaspoons worth. Also if you are using it for ed I believe I read to apply on your scrotum.

But do your own research like crank mentioned to make an

informed decision for yourself.

Hey I checked out amazon but they only had progesterone creams, not mixed test + progest creams.. They seemed to have a lot of herbs in them too instead of just progesterone..

 

Timatron, I saw they have some on amazon. They have quite many different brands. Most are made for women. I read somewhere that if a guy uses it to use anywhere from 8 to 10 mg. Most of them contain high amounts per volume so you would likely only be using a fraction of a teaspoons worth. Also if you are using it for ed I believe I read to apply on your scrotum.

But do your own research like crank mentioned to make an

informed decision for yourself.

Hey I checked out amazon but they only had progesterone creams, not mixed test + progest creams.. They seemed to have a lot of herbs in them too instead of just progesterone..

Yea, I was probably only going to get just the progesterone cream with no test in it anyway. Since I have high test levels already I probably won't need the test in the cream, just the progesterone.

I am currently lifting weights 3 times a week and sometimes throw in a cardio session. I am about to start supplementing with creatine mono because of a study done on it increasing dht in the body. I am also taking whey protein as well after workouts. Once I have been taking creatine for about a week or two, I will eventually try the progesterone cream and see if it does anything to help, which I am hoping it does.

Inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) is accompanied by the excessive productions of reactive oxygen and nitrogen metabolites [41]. The concentration of malondialdehyde (MDA), which can serve as an index for lipid peroxidation, was found to be increased in inflamed mucosa cells [42]. Lipid peroxidation is associated with hydroxyl radicals and superoxide anions. In inflamed cells, levels of MnSOD are suppressed relative to those of normal cells, indicating that MnSOD may be a therapeutic target. NOD2 is a susceptibility gene for IBD; the NOD2 protein can activate the immune system by triggering NF-B and can negatively regulate the Toll-like receptor-mediated T-helper type 1 response, thereby increasing susceptibility to infection [43, 44]. The pathology of IBD requires further investigation. Currently, drugs targeting NF-B or ROS have been found to be somewhat effective.

Has anybody had a liver biopsy?

I always thought that Zinc must be the key to get rid of isotretinoin side effects. Since it will use more of the Vitamin A which is stored in the liver. I think the key is to take it longterm. But whenever i try to take it, my side effects begin to worsen after 1-2 weeks of taking it, and i just cant continue.

 

Has anybody taken zinc for several months? Or even years? What was your experience? Do u still suffer from the side effects?

zinc releases vitamin A from the liver

actually we may need some more vitamin A according to this study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10570558

i have taken manganese with very good result, i have to note that i also taken biotin and all other vitamin b in normal dose

meanwhile i ate chicken liver for vitamin A and folate/b12 and other things like paba , etc in it

i tried lot of things like silicon , copper , zinc , boron

i dont know if they also worked but im sure the good results are mostly due to manganese

i think drinking milk can help too

just wanted to share it with you , hope it help you

Has anybody had a liver biopsy?

I believe they did a biopsy on the teen who flew the plane into a bldg and claimed no Accutane was found! Who knows though!

i have taken manganese with very good result, i have to note that i also taken biotin and all other vitamin b in normal dose

meanwhile i ate chicken liver for vitamin A and folate/b12 and other things like paba , etc in it

i tried lot of things like silicon , copper , zinc , boron

i dont know if they also worked but im sure the good results are mostly due to manganese

i think drinking milk can help too

just wanted to share it with you , hope it help you

how much did you take? for how long?

what symptoms did it help you with?

 

i have taken manganese with very good result, i have to note that i also taken biotin and all other vitamin b in normal dose

meanwhile i ate chicken liver for vitamin A and folate/b12 and other things like paba , etc in it

i tried lot of things like silicon , copper , zinc , boron

i dont know if they also worked but im sure the good results are mostly due to manganese

i think drinking milk can help too

just wanted to share it with you , hope it help you

how much did you take? for how long?

what symptoms did it help you with?

i take it for about 7-8 months

befor starting supplement i decided to have my manganese via foods, so i started drinking lot of tea and pineapple juice, those also worked but i gone for supplement for faster result

dosage was about 50mg elemental manganese for about 2 week , and down to 30mg for almost 1 month and then i gone for 10mg for maintenance.and my supplement was manganese sulfat ,you may need less if you take more bioavailable form like chelates

for a few years after accutane use i felt my body lost its structure , i felt im looser

my joints was weak , my mind was not sharp as before

my eyes was blurry

and i had mental symptoms

and it helped me for all of that problem

im not as healthy as before yet but it needs time

for me i feel like it made my body to loss control of mineral retention and absorption, which is so important especially for manganese.

i had a weak digestion before accutane and it made my digestion even worst

now after i tried lot of things in 5-6 year i really excited how my digestion works so better,even hardly believe it myself.

i also taken vitamin k and D , and recommend you to be careful about vitamin D to not overdose

while you keep avery nutrient at optimal be careful to be on balance and not overdose anything

***

i just forget to say that i have symptoms of skin like dryness and i had dry eyes too

, overally a weak connective tissue

Just seen this report posted up on the ATM forum which is quite an interesting explanation of the side effects of AR5 inhibitors including isotretinoin (Accutane) put together by some admins on Propeciahelp. It's from 2010, but It's quite well written and could potentially be worth printing off and taking to your doctor for anyone who is getting fobbed off with "it's just in your head" when they describe their Accutane sides. It's obviously very relevant to our cases, and is clearly aimed at an audience who don't have extensive medical knowledge, i.e. it's not all jargon, definitely worth a look;

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

Just seen this report posted up on the ATM forum which is quite an interesting explanation of the side effects of AR5 inhibitors including isotretinoin (Accutane) put together by some admins on Propeciahelp. It's from 2010, but It's quite well written and could potentially be worth printing off and taking to your doctor for anyone who is getting fobbed off with "it's just in your head" when they describe their Accutane sides. It's obviously very relevant to our cases, and is clearly aimed at an audience who don't have extensive medical knowledge, i.e. it's not all jargon, definitely worth a look;

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

"Epigenetic changes in homeostasis resulting in permanently altered levels of gene expression"

This is where theyre 100% wrong, and where the cure is. There is no such thing as a "permanent altered gene expression" DNA is the permanent blueprint... gene expression gets altered by Methylation. Gene expression constantly becomes altered over time. Methylation is controlled by the B-vitamin group. B-vitamins need co-factors to begin to work. co-factors include manganese needed for B1 Biotin and Choline to even begin to work.

actually we may need some more vitamin A according to this study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10570558

Brilliant.

I'm not surprised.

Just seen this report posted up on the ATM forum which is quite an interesting explanation of the side effects of AR5 inhibitors including isotretinoin (Accutane) put together by some admins on Propeciahelp. It's from 2010, but It's quite well written and could potentially be worth printing off and taking to your doctor for anyone who is getting fobbed off with "it's just in your head" when they describe their Accutane sides. It's obviously very relevant to our cases, and is clearly aimed at an audience who don't have extensive medical knowledge, i.e. it's not all jargon, definitely worth a look;

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

Brilliant.

The only problem is they should have given us a few possible cures/supps to try.

I wish Camaroz was here to see the results of his awareness raising campaign.

hmmmm intersting reading...

lactobacillus plantarum use a manganese based catalase to protect themselves from ROS. Is this another another link between accutane & IBD/Crohns?!

http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/101/motm.do?momID=57

"Inside our cells, electrons are continually shuttled from site to site by carrier molecules, such as carriers derived from riboflavin and niacin"

the B2/manganese connection?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3419998/

Is our body using up mnSOD and depleting manganese combatting the ROS caused by accutane...thereby depleting the protective nutrients used by our gut flora eventually leading to IBD?!

Impaired gut flora=impaired B vitamin synthesis=vicious circle.

A little more on true detoxification... this goes beyond liver flushes, kidney clenses, lymph draining etc etc.

http://metabolichealing.com/detoxification-addressing-cellular-functions-dispelling-myths/

I'm pissed off that there are no solutions for many people that have permenant, lifelong acne. I have wasted thousands of fucking dollars over the years on derms and natural shitty methods and nothing has worked at all. I can try Accutane and then end up fucked up like everyone else in this thread, though.

Fucked up like everyone else in this thread? This is rude. Please leave, you are no good here!

 

Just seen this report posted up on the ATM forum which is quite an interesting explanation of the side effects of AR5 inhibitors including isotretinoin (Accutane) put together by some admins on Propeciahelp. It's from 2010, but It's quite well written and could potentially be worth printing off and taking to your doctor for anyone who is getting fobbed off with "it's just in your head" when they describe their Accutane sides. It's obviously very relevant to our cases, and is clearly aimed at an audience who don't have extensive medical knowledge, i.e. it's not all jargon, definitely worth a look;

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

"Epigenetic changes in homeostasis resulting in permanently altered levels of gene expression"

This is where theyre 100% wrong, and where the cure is. There is no such thing as a "permanent altered gene expression" DNA is the permanent blueprint... gene expression gets altered by Methylation. Gene expression constantly becomes altered over time. Methylation is controlled by the B-vitamin group. B-vitamins need co-factors to begin to work. co-factors include manganese needed for B1 Biotin and Choline to even begin to work.

Yeah chances are when that report was written there hadn't been any documented recoveries - since then of course there are some recovery stories on the propecia forum seemingly from fasting and restricted diet, and probably a few more Accutane related recoveries, the majority involving RSO.

The theory still looks to be on the same lines as most the current thinking though, so I think it's definitely still potentially worth printing that off and taking to doctors in my opinion - likely to at least reduce your chances of being fobbed off.

Be interested to hear how you get along with your protocol TTH - sounds like your understanding of some of the potentially affected mechanisms is sound - hope you get some success!

Forget I said anything. Good luck with the newest cure.