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there are drugs out there which have been proven to induce hypermethylation.We don't yet know if isotretinoin hypomethylates or hypermethylates the genes(it could be both...hypomethylation of certain genes leading to hypermethylation of others).Such drugs are chemotherapy drugs like these:
[Edited link out]
if isotretinoin indeed demethylates certain genes we could try to remethylate them by those drugs in the above study.
Dubya did you follow the study which you posted recently proving that epigenetic changes were indeed induced by isotretinoin?I have been busy lately and didn't have the time to search for any follow up study which has more detailed results.I am looking forward to see more detailed results from this study:
[Edited link out]
i believe that trying to supplement with folic acid,b-12 etc only preserves our current methylation state and will not result in remethylation of genes with were demethylated by isotretinoin.That is why many see no benefit of such supplementation.
Nothing exterior ever will restore gene expression or anything inside the body in the proper way, exactly how required where it's required and even less permanently or positively. The body will always do his best to restore the balance, when he can in the proper medium. Everything affect methylation, diet of course, cells environment (polluants, drugs, ..), exercice, etc..
No, I didn't pursue that study any further. It's fairly recent, so it may be a while before a follow-up study or studies citing that paper are published.
ASFAIK, the methyltransferase enzymes have more to do with DNA methylation status than B-vitamins or other methyl-group donors.
Does anyone have information to the contrary?
Like you said Levianthan, we don't even know exactly what we're treating, so it's difficult to say what's best. Could be hypermethylation, could be hypomethylation, and we currently have no idea which genes to target. I think modification to the actual chromatin structure itself is heritable from one cell generation to the next too.
I noticed a general trend while leafing through literature earlier this year of diets high in meat promoting hypermethylation and diets high in vegetables promoting hypomethylation. Sort of interesting to know.
BTW- Did you ever hear back from that guy who developed ED during Accutane treatment, who convinced himself it would go away after he stopped?
Have you honestly cleaned up your diet? Especially trying to eliminate wheat, grains, dairy, sugar and the like and if so how long did you try this?
How old are you temperate cent?
Remember the only one who notices your acne is you, it's a normal part of growing up. Long term accutane sides are not normal and they won't fade away like your acne eventually will.
Be strong man forget about accutane it's not worth it
Even if you change your diet you can have acne if your lymphatic system is too backed up, it can takes time for some and only 3 week for others (with a diet 100% raw fruits & vegs) and some need detox techniques/herbs.
If you want restore dna & his expression issue clean the medium/lymph, no drug will ever be able to precisely restore what have been altered, precisely where it was altered, precisely on which cells, etc.. and all that without addressing the cause, the toxic medium. It's like saying that you need a drug everytimes you have a sunburn to help the body restoring the dna expression who have been temporarly altered/destroyed. The body doesn't need stupid human thinking & drugs to get well, we are far to know everything about the body chemicals mechanism, but we can already observe what he can do when we stop altering & poisoning him, amazing unbelievable healings that happen, we doesn't know better than nature and our own body, that's human arrogence and ignorance, just see where that lead to, accutane is just one of many many example.
We don't even know the tenth about our body mechanisms and we should trust official medicine symptomatic thinking and their accordingly studies and their synthetic drugs which never succeed at treating significant "diseases" (when suppressing the symptoms doesn't work anymore, = chronic & degenerative stage) instead of trusting our own body & nature which exist for billions of years? modern humans are like a millisecond in the planet history, and we know better than nature and our own body?. They even say diet has no relation to health issue when we already know since a long time that when you feed any animal with cooked & non-physiological food they get sick with sames issue as us, but strangely when it come to humans you can eat whatever you want, just to fed this corrupt medical & food corporation system. And now that they know that people are happy to give all their money to some quack who poison them and fix nothing, they sells them battery acid to put directly in their blood which cost amazingly high price telling us that it will make us healthier. Those piece of crap are the definition of charlatanism and even worse, mass poisoning & killing.
Have you honestly cleaned up your diet? Especially trying to eliminate wheat, grains, dairy, sugar and the like and if so how long did you try this?
How old are you temperate cent?
Remember the only one who notices your acne is you, it's a normal part of growing up. Long term accutane sides are not normal and they won't fade away like your acne eventually will.
Be strong man forget about accutane it's not worth it
I've tried it for months and had a very strict diet (eliminating what you mentioned), it did not help me.
People do notice my acne. Every week people bring it up to me. My acne might never fade away, as there are people that have permanent adult acne.
Acne is a result of toxic build up in the body. Address the root cause not the symptom..
Have you honestly cleaned up your diet? Especially trying to eliminate wheat, grains, dairy, sugar and the like and if so how long did you try this?
How old are you temperate cent?
Remember the only one who notices your acne is you, it's a normal part of growing up. Long term accutane sides are not normal and they won't fade away like your acne eventually will.
Be strong man forget about accutane it's not worth it
I've tried it for months and had a very strict diet (eliminating what you mentioned), it did not help me.
People do notice my acne. Every week people bring it up to me. My acne might never fade away, as there are people that have permanent adult acne.
Acne is a result of toxic build up in the body. Address the root cause not the symptom..
Where is the scientific proof behind this statement?
Ignore the truth and live in ignorance like the majority of the world.
Have you honestly cleaned up your diet? Especially trying to eliminate wheat, grains, dairy, sugar and the like and if so how long did you try this?
How old are you temperate cent?
Remember the only one who notices your acne is you, it's a normal part of growing up. Long term accutane sides are not normal and they won't fade away like your acne eventually will.
Be strong man forget about accutane it's not worth it
I've tried it for months and had a very strict diet (eliminating what you mentioned), it did not help me.
People do notice my acne. Every week people bring it up to me. My acne might never fade away, as there are people that have permanent adult acne.
Acne is a result of toxic build up in the body. Address the root cause not the symptom..
Where is the scientific proof behind this statement?
Ignore the truth and live in ignorance like the majority of the world.
That is an ignorant statement in itself. You can't just say something is the "truth" without giving proof of it.
The truth rids in these topics.
Do you truthfully feel that diet isn't key? Pharmaceuticals are the answer?
Will diet alone fix everything? NO.
Poor diet and lifestyle led to these problems in the first place..
There are a million reasons for our problems, no one answer. Seek the truth and you will find this out.
I cannot tell you the truth, you must search for it.
I searched for the Truth and found it: [Edited link out]
...For more information visit the "Truth Portal" on encyclopediadramatica.se
It's chock-full of facts you can trust.
Androgens, bacteria, and excess keratinization must have went out of style as the causes of acne a long time ago.
I talked to many people who succeed at getting rid of acne with diet alone, and not even a "perfect" one, for some it's more difficult. But anyway the cause is always the same, there is a reason for everything, there is no random magic "disease" waiting for you at night, and it's even less the body who like to dysfunction when he like to for no reason like stupid people who want to sell drugs want you to believe. But if you want to follow these people and take accutane or other man-made crap enjoy the results, you can't run and hide from the real source/cause of the issues forever by suppressing the symptoms, it will always come back at you, sooner or later (rather soon with accutane).
What people do nowadays is like running a car on sand as fuel (crap diet), hammering the red light flag saying there is an issue ("disease"/symptoms) with synthetic drugs (which make things worse) which of course never address the cause, and then blaming the body when the issue aren't resolved thinking he's the one who is faulty. All health issue come from lymph congestion, there is no other cause or solution, the body is just cells, blood & lymph (& minerals etc.. ofc), blood feed, lymph cleans. The solution isn't to take an other drug to get well, that's stupid thinking, altering the body with synthetic drugs won't ever restore health and balance, assisting him to cleanse & regenerate does. Too much people look for easy solution waiting for a magic pill, sorry that isn't that easy.
Stuned growth is know Accutane side effect so I decided to get my growth levels tested, maybe lack of GH would explain some of my symptoms. My fS-GH results came back and it was <0.15, max is being 9. The nurse said it was normal, but I feel doubtful. How low is it supposed to be to be considered low? Negative? That doesn't feel right.
Acne = lymphatic elimination, same for all skin issue, everyone who have done what was required and not gived up after 2 days got rid of all their skin issue, even psoriasis. It appear worse in adolescence (compared to adult acne) because the body secrete lot of sexual hormones which are very reactive/aggressive, specially in an already toxic medium, which trigger those elimination crisis. That's why conventional medicine never had success, they are stupid, completely ignoring physiology, the only way for them to eliminate acne is to destroy the skin by 90%, while on accutane and years after i had permanent crust on the top of my hand, and when no crust i had barely no more skin i coulda see only my veins. And even with accutane they don't even "success" (at destroying the body) for everyone.
Accutane = destroying the skin to prevent the toxins from being eliminated. It's no magic pill, it's retarded pill that will make your life hell sooner or later.
Trying to persuade ppl to steer clear of accutane is not dissimilar to banging your head against a brick wall. Unless you have severe cystic acne I don't know how anyone could read through this thread and still decide to take accutane.
TrmperateCent, the fact you know ppl who have taken accutane without problems is completely irrelevant. Do you want to be the next person to join the ppl on this board with sexual problems, chronic fatigue, joint and muscle pain, permanently dry sun sensitive skin, headaches, sore eyes?? However remote the chances you will run the risk of that happening no matter what the dose. You never answered my question anyway, how old are you?
Isotretinoin-induced arthritis mimicking both rheumatoid arthritis and axial spondyloarthritis
It makes me remember that i have my ulnar nerve from both arms which are not anymore in their sheath since accutane, bending the arm make it pass on the other side of the bone, can't bend fully while forcing if i don't want to damage it. Someone had that too? Far better now but still interesting to know if i wasn't the only one.
On 10/13/2014 at 10:03 PM, zzz0r said:Has anyone managed to increase or restore bile production? After reading most of the posts here and combining experience from other forums I understand that this is the main problem. Accutane stops the produciton of bile
this is 100% the case of what is happening. and what treatments have shown some promise you ask? SAMe and probiotics. SAMe, which is b12 ,folic acid and TMG dependent...the same nutrients accutane has been observed to cause a deficiency in. From NYU med:
[Edited link out]
The body manufactures S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) for use in converting certain chemicals to other chemicals (specifically, through the processes of transmethylation and transsulfuration). Some evidence suggests that SAMe taken as an oral supplement may have value in the treatment of various liver diseases, including chronic viral hepatitis , liver cirrhosis , jaundice of pregnancy, and liver toxicity caused by drugs or chemicals. 27-31,51-54
Perhaps the best evidence regards cholestasis (backup of bile in the liver) caused by serious liver disease. In a 2-week, double-blind study of 220 people with cholestasis, use of SAMe (1,600 mg daily) significantly improved liver-related symptoms as compared to placebo. 28 Most participants in this study had chronic viral hepatitis.
Another large study evaluated the potential benefits of SAMe for the treatment of people with alcoholic liver cirrhosis. 27 This 2-year, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 117 people failed to find SAMe helpful for the group as a whole. However, in a subgroup of those with less advanced disease, treatment with SAMe appeared to reduce the number of people who needed a liver transplant, or who died.
Gilberts syndrome is an unexplained but harmless condition in which levels of bilirubin rise in the body, causing an alarming yellowing of the skin (jaundice). Weak evidence hints that SAMe may help reduce bilirubin levels in this condition. 32
For more information, including dosage and safety issues, see the full SAMe article.
Probiotics have been studied as possible treatment for liver disease. In one such study, 84 adults (aged 18-65) with liver disease ( cirrhosis or hepatitis ) were randomized to receive yogurt (1 cup, 3 times daily) with or without the probiotics B. bifidus , L. acidophilus , L. bulgaricus , andS. thermophilus . 58 After 2 weeks, the people in the probiotics group experienced an improvement in their symptoms, including less debilitation and better appetite. Chronic liver disease with cirrhosis can lead to a potentially life-threatening brain abnormality, called hepatic encephalopathy. A 2011 review of 7 randomized trials involving 550 people found inconclusive evidence to support the use of probiotics as a treatment for this condition. 59
One double-blind study found evidence that a beverage made from sweet potato could improve measures of liver function in people with mild hepatitis of unspecified cause. 55
Very preliminary evidence suggests that the supplement betaine (trimethylglycine, or TMGnot to be confused with betaine hydrochloride ) may be helpful for treating fatty liver caused by alcohol and other causes, and also for protecting the liver from toxins in general. 33-37
Vitamin Deficiencies
In order for your body to convert homocysteine to useable SAMe and glutathione, you must have the proper nutrients available in your system. If you are deficient in folate, vitamin B12, vitamin B2, zinc, TMG (trimethylglycine-from choline) or magnesium, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to mood-stabilizing SAMe. If you are deficient in vitamin B6, vitamin B2, or zinc, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to disease-preventing glutathione.
Vitamin deficiencies are a common aftereffect of a poor diet, poor digestion, and low gut bacteria.
For the few cases in which vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folic acid fail to normalize homocysteine, adding 6 grams per day of betaine (trimethylglycine) may be effective.17 Of these four supplements, folic acid appears to be the most important.18 Attempts to lower homocysteine by simply changing the diet rather than by using vitamin supplements have not been successful.19
On 10/14/2014 at 12:58 AM, tryingtohelp2014 said:On 10/13/2014 at 10:03 PM, zzz0r said:Has anyone managed to increase or restore bile production? After reading most of the posts here and combining experience from other forums I understand that this is the main problem. Accutane stops the produciton of bile
this is 100% the case of what is happening. and what treatments have shown some promise you ask? SAMe and probiotics. SAMe, which is b12 ,folic acid and TMG dependent...the same nutrients accutane has been observed to cause a deficiency in. From NYU med:
[Edited link out]
S-adenosylmethionineThe body manufactures S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) for use in converting certain chemicals to other chemicals (specifically, through the processes of transmethylation and transsulfuration). Some evidence suggests that SAMe taken as an oral supplement may have value in the treatment of various liver diseases, including chronic viral hepatitis , liver cirrhosis , jaundice of pregnancy, and liver toxicity caused by drugs or chemicals. 27-31,51-54
Perhaps the best evidence regards cholestasis (backup of bile in the liver) caused by serious liver disease. In a 2-week, double-blind study of 220 people with cholestasis, use of SAMe (1,600 mg daily) significantly improved liver-related symptoms as compared to placebo. 28 Most participants in this study had chronic viral hepatitis.
Another large study evaluated the potential benefits of SAMe for the treatment of people with alcoholic liver cirrhosis. 27 This 2-year, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 117 people failed to find SAMe helpful for the group as a whole. However, in a subgroup of those with less advanced disease, treatment with SAMe appeared to reduce the number of people who needed a liver transplant, or who died.
Gilberts syndrome is an unexplained but harmless condition in which levels of bilirubin rise in the body, causing an alarming yellowing of the skin (jaundice). Weak evidence hints that SAMe may help reduce bilirubin levels in this condition. 32
For more information, including dosage and safety issues, see the full SAMe article.
* Other Proposed Natural TreatmentsProbiotics have been studied as possible treatment for liver disease. In one such study, 84 adults (aged 18-65) with liver disease ( cirrhosis or hepatitis ) were randomized to receive yogurt (1 cup, 3 times daily) with or without the probiotics B. bifidus , L. acidophilus , L. bulgaricus , andS. thermophilus . 58 After 2 weeks, the people in the probiotics group experienced an improvement in their symptoms, including less debilitation and better appetite. Chronic liver disease with cirrhosis can lead to a potentially life-threatening brain abnormality, called hepatic encephalopathy. A 2011 review of 7 randomized trials involving 550 people found inconclusive evidence to support the use of probiotics as a treatment for this condition. 59
One double-blind study found evidence that a beverage made from sweet potato could improve measures of liver function in people with mild hepatitis of unspecified cause. 55
Very preliminary evidence suggests that the supplement betaine (trimethylglycine, or TMGnot to be confused with betaine hydrochloride ) may be helpful for treating fatty liver caused by alcohol and other causes, and also for protecting the liver from toxins in general. 33-37
Vitamin Deficiencies
In order for your body to convert homocysteine to useable SAMe and glutathione, you must have the proper nutrients available in your system. If you are deficient in folate, vitamin B12, vitamin B2, zinc, TMG (trimethylglycine-from choline) or magnesium, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to mood-stabilizing SAMe. If you are deficient in vitamin B6, vitamin B2, or zinc, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to disease-preventing glutathione.
Vitamin deficiencies are a common aftereffect of a poor diet, poor digestion, and low gut bacteria.
For the few cases in which vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folic acid fail to normalize homocysteine, adding 6 grams per day of betaine (trimethylglycine) may be effective.17 Of these four supplements, folic acid appears to be the most important.18 Attempts to lower homocysteine by simply changing the diet rather than by using vitamin supplements have not been successful.19
Yes your post targets very well the main issue. I am just wondering why people keep fighting in this topic instead of trying to help themselves and exhange experiences. Now lets get in topic
SAM-e is the MASTER methyl donor in the body and it is involved in numerous functions and enzymatic proccesses. Someone can supplement directly with SAM-e but hte most effective way it to treat methylation cycle overall.
Methylation cycle and consequently SAM-e needs methylcobalamin (b12) methylfolate (b9) (methyl are the active ready forms for the body to use, they are prefered that way because many people can not convert the forms found in food to the active forms due to genetic alternations)
Accutane is being suspected to alter the SNPs and thus the effeciency of the enzymatic reactions. SNPs like MTHFR, COMT and others that are directly related with the methylation cycle could be altered or being expressed by long term accutane therapy.
Also what you said about TMG is also correct
Yep i had this bile production problem, resolved as i said here and with the liver flushs. Chanca piedra is effective too. No synthetic vitamin supplement will cleanse the liver and the gallbladder, from the stones, the stuck bile, the lymphatic congestion & restore proper kidney filtration.
Please if you can, get tested for the MTHFR defect at 23andme.com I encourage everyone with long term side effects to get tested at 23andme.com and share your results here. Im willing to bet we all have a defect in detoxifying accutane.
Yep i had this bile production problem, resolved as i said here and with the liver flushs. Chanca piedra is effective too. No synthetic vitamin supplement will cleanse the liver and the gallbladder, from the stones, the stuck bile, the lymphatic congestion & restore proper kidney filtration.
stop with your nonsense... you didnt fix a genetic defect with a liver flush. you cant fix a deficiency with a liver flush
Completely out of the subject answer, you like talking to yourself apparently.
You don't fix genetic with synthetic supplements.
You don't fix health issue with synthetic supplements.
Health issue aren't caused by a lack of synthetic supplements.
Accutane isn't detoxified with synthetic supplements, and even less with methylation. It's excreted via glucuronidation.
On 10/14/2014 at 3:17 AM, zzz0r said:On 10/14/2014 at 12:58 AM, tryingtohelp2014 said:On 10/13/2014 at 10:03 PM, zzz0r said:Has anyone managed to increase or restore bile production? After reading most of the posts here and combining experience from other forums I understand that this is the main problem. Accutane stops the produciton of bile
this is 100% the case of what is happening. and what treatments have shown some promise you ask? SAMe and probiotics. SAMe, which is b12 ,folic acid and TMG dependent...the same nutrients accutane has been observed to cause a deficiency in. From NYU med:
[Edited link out]
S-adenosylmethionineThe body manufactures S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) for use in converting certain chemicals to other chemicals (specifically, through the processes of transmethylation and transsulfuration). Some evidence suggests that SAMe taken as an oral supplement may have value in the treatment of various liver diseases, including chronic viral hepatitis , liver cirrhosis , jaundice of pregnancy, and liver toxicity caused by drugs or chemicals. 27-31,51-54
Perhaps the best evidence regards cholestasis (backup of bile in the liver) caused by serious liver disease. In a 2-week, double-blind study of 220 people with cholestasis, use of SAMe (1,600 mg daily) significantly improved liver-related symptoms as compared to placebo. 28 Most participants in this study had chronic viral hepatitis.
Another large study evaluated the potential benefits of SAMe for the treatment of people with alcoholic liver cirrhosis. 27 This 2-year, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 117 people failed to find SAMe helpful for the group as a whole. However, in a subgroup of those with less advanced disease, treatment with SAMe appeared to reduce the number of people who needed a liver transplant, or who died.
Gilberts syndrome is an unexplained but harmless condition in which levels of bilirubin rise in the body, causing an alarming yellowing of the skin (jaundice). Weak evidence hints that SAMe may help reduce bilirubin levels in this condition. 32
For more information, including dosage and safety issues, see the full SAMe article.
* Other Proposed Natural TreatmentsProbiotics have been studied as possible treatment for liver disease. In one such study, 84 adults (aged 18-65) with liver disease ( cirrhosis or hepatitis ) were randomized to receive yogurt (1 cup, 3 times daily) with or without the probiotics B. bifidus , L. acidophilus , L. bulgaricus , andS. thermophilus . 58 After 2 weeks, the people in the probiotics group experienced an improvement in their symptoms, including less debilitation and better appetite. Chronic liver disease with cirrhosis can lead to a potentially life-threatening brain abnormality, called hepatic encephalopathy. A 2011 review of 7 randomized trials involving 550 people found inconclusive evidence to support the use of probiotics as a treatment for this condition. 59
One double-blind study found evidence that a beverage made from sweet potato could improve measures of liver function in people with mild hepatitis of unspecified cause. 55
Very preliminary evidence suggests that the supplement betaine (trimethylglycine, or TMGnot to be confused with betaine hydrochloride ) may be helpful for treating fatty liver caused by alcohol and other causes, and also for protecting the liver from toxins in general. 33-37
Vitamin Deficiencies
In order for your body to convert homocysteine to useable SAMe and glutathione, you must have the proper nutrients available in your system. If you are deficient in folate, vitamin B12, vitamin B2, zinc, TMG (trimethylglycine-from choline) or magnesium, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to mood-stabilizing SAMe. If you are deficient in vitamin B6, vitamin B2, or zinc, your body will be unable to convert homocysteine to disease-preventing glutathione.
Vitamin deficiencies are a common aftereffect of a poor diet, poor digestion, and low gut bacteria.
For the few cases in which vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folic acid fail to normalize homocysteine, adding 6 grams per day of betaine (trimethylglycine) may be effective.17 Of these four supplements, folic acid appears to be the most important.18 Attempts to lower homocysteine by simply changing the diet rather than by using vitamin supplements have not been successful.19
Yes your post targets very well the main issue. I am just wondering why people keep fighting in this topic instead of trying to help themselves and exhange experiences. Now lets get in topic
SAM-e is the MASTER methyl donor in the body and it is involved in numerous functions and enzymatic proccesses. Someone can supplement directly with SAM-e but hte most effective way it to treat methylation cycle overall.
Methylation cycle and consequently SAM-e needs methylcobalamin (b12) methylfolate (b9) (methyl are the active ready forms for the body to use, they are prefered that way because many people can not convert the forms found in food to the active forms due to genetic alternations)
Accutane is being suspected to alter the SNPs and thus the effeciency of the enzymatic reactions. SNPs like MTHFR, COMT and others that are directly related with the methylation cycle could be altered or being expressed by long term accutane therapy.
Also what you said about TMG is also correct
Again, it ties into what a researcher found:
One of the things Roaccutane (or Accutane or isotretinoin or 13-cis retinoic acid) does is to raise the gene expression of the enzyme glycine N-methyltransferase. This enzyme normally limits the ratio of SAMe to SAH in the methylation cycle. When the activity of this enzyme is increased, the ratio of SAMe to SAH is decreased, and this causes a methylation deficit, so that the many methyltransferase reactions in the body are downregulated. I think this is the connection to ME/CFS. Over the past few years, I have heard from several people who developed ME/CFS after being treated with Accutane. I don't know why this happens to some people, but not to most. I'm aware of one case in which testing indicates that glycine N-methyltransferase has remained upregulated even years after Roaccutane treatment was ended. I don't know why.
On 10/14/2014 at 4:08 AM, anonyy said:Completely out of the subject answer, you like talking to yourself apparently.
You don't fix genetic with synthetic supplements.
You don't fix health issue with synthetic supplements.
Accutane isn't detoxified with synthetic supplements, and even less with methylation. It's excreted via glucuronidation.
hey dummy, explain pre-natal vitamins then? that is EXACTLY what they do. Folic acid is well known to protect against a genetic defect. It is needed for the rapid cell division during pregnancy(which accutane stops) and used to silence the genes in the methylation cycle. stop trying to debate this... its already well known. they prevent among other things...cleft palate...hmmm and what drug causes this SPECIFIC deformity???? ACCUTANE
im honestly starting to believe annoy is a paid troll by roche, he cured himself with liver flushes and going to a quack eyeball doctor, yet he is here EVERYDAY with quick responses? because if we do find a cure and a definite link... wouldnt they be open to more lawsuits?