You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?

Listen, this stuff is not stored in your brain... or your kidney. thats #1. you have to ELIMINATE IT from the body by whatever means necessary(synthetic or otherwise.) The kidney is just one elimination route.... but treating the kidney or lymph nodes wont mobilize the metabolite thats stored in the fat or the liver. you have to deal with the enzymes and genes that deal with the liver detoxification pathways imo.

i think #1 you have to get to a state where the drug metabolite is circulating again... either thru fasting or extreme exercise, and then hit the metabolite with everything to eliminate it. That being all of the active forms of B along with other supportive minerals that deal SPECIFICALLY with your bodies WELL KNOWN methylation processes.

And to say you dont care about the medical studies.... why the @#!%$ am i even arguing with you?????

I don't know where you got the methylation idea from but accutane's removed through glucuronidation, it's bound to a glucuronic acid molecule and removed principally via the kidney's, so again anonyy actually knows what he's talking about. Granted it's also removed in the bile as well but glucuronidation is the process of making a fat soluble compound more water soluble so it can be excreted via that pathway.

Secondly the idea that it's stored in the liver is also wrong, accutane is not retinol, retinol is stored in the liver, retinoic acid is end chain, it doesn't store in the liver, categorically, 100%. One of the things anonyy talks about is drinking kombucha, kombucha is the only known food source of glucuronic acid, it also inhibits the cleaving of glucuronic acid via beta glucuronidase enzymes, these enzymes break the bond between the glucuronic acid molecule and the toxin and force the toxin back into the system, kombucha helps prevent this.

I believe you about it being stored in the body, i have very similar experiences whilst fasting to your own and i'm in complete agreement with you there, others don't believe it, that's fine we can have differing opinions on things, it's not the end of the world. The lymphatic system is very important when dealing with accutane side effects though, you shouldn't poo-poo that idea, the lymph transports fat soluble vitamins to and from the cell, accutane is a fat soluble vitamin so it's transported through the lymph, the lymph removes fat soluble compounds, the lymph has a lot to play in this, anonyy knows.

In fact anonyy deserves more respect than he's being given around here, just because he talks about the bigger picture doesn't mean he's not referencing intuitively the concepts that you are talking about like detoxification pathways, enzymes, etc, he just looks at it more expansively.

if its not stored in the liver, where is it being stored...because we both know its stillin us...in one form or another.... is it stored in the fat itself...is it constantly being recycled?

i read what he said about calcium d glucorinate.... you would have to take 30,000 mgs to have any effect. the amount of glucuronic acid in kombucha is negligible

 

 

 

 

One of the things Roaccutane (or Accutane or isotretinoin or 13-cis retinoic acid) does is to raise the gene expression of the enzyme glycine N-methyltransferase. This enzyme normally limits the ratio of SAMe to SAH in the methylation cycle. When the activity of this enzyme is increased, the ratio of SAMe to SAH is decreased, and this causes a methylation deficit, so that the many methyltransferase reactions in the body are downregulated. I think this is the connection to ME/CFS. Over the past few years, I have heard from several people who developed ME/CFS after being treated with Accutane. I don't know why this happens to some people, but not to most. I'm aware of one case in which testing indicates that glycine N-methyltransferase has remained upregulated even years after Roaccutane treatment was ended. I don't know why.

 

 

Glycine N-methyltransferase is normally inhibited by 5L-methyl tetrahydrofolate, which is a form of folate used in the methylation treatments. If glycine N-methyltransferase is responsive to it, as it normally is, the methylation treatment should downregulate it. In the case I refer to, this doesn't seem to work, and I don't know why. Perhaps there is a genetic polymorphism in glycine N-methyltransferase in some people that causes it to be unresponsive to methylfolate.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Rich

 

 

 

[/indent]

 

It's stored in the fat and no it's not constantly recycled, the only time it comes out is during juice fasts or water fasts when you lose body weight really quickly, the fat is being used as energy and it can come out into the circulation, hence the feelings of being on accutane again (dry skin, cracked lips, flushed skin). From my experience it's much better off being left there, detoxifying the lymph is important, if it gets moved it goes to the lymph, remember all cells, even fat cells take in nutrients from the blood and excrete toxins via the lymph.

If Accutane isn't in the body anymore why does prolonged rubbing of the skin cause heart papulations and dizziness hmmm.... BECAUSE isotretinoin permanently changes the way the body functions it's quite simple really . The damage is permanent but side effects can be controlled as I have found out. In reality the isotretinoin molecule is stored in the fat cells of the body as the body can't get rid of it .

And can be re activated via fasting , rubbing or saunas etc... as I have found out the hard way

I tell people what part of POISON do you not understand when they ask me if isotretinoin is safe and effective yeah just like the rest of the junk Allopathic Inc sells.

Of course that can't be disputed that a toxic molecule as toxic action inside the body. But we don't care of those symptomatic effects, focus on the cause, accutane molecule isn't here anymore as a cause, so the remaining cause is the fried glands & the global toxicity, if you focus on illusionous deficiencies who can be real you'll never understand how the body work, and if there is a deficiency it's not the solution to take isolates, fix the CAUSE, fix the digestion, absorption, utilization+transformation & most important, elimination. You won't ever restore your health by taking isolate and ignoring why the problem happen in the first place. You can take those isolate if you want, they will stimulate you for some times, then you'll need higher and higher dosage and then you'll feel far worse than the beginning and you'll need even more time to regenerate.

see this where youre 100000% wrong. the Accutane molecule is still there, as an unknown metabolite influencing the oil glands, skin,eyes,joints etc. think about it, if it was just another toxin built up in a system now like everyone else has.... why would cause these SPECIFIC side effects. It is still there influencing receptors...thats why we cant eat vitamin A, or we get sick... nobody else with toxicity gets sick from eating a carrot.... i do! as far as it being permanent... i dont believe this... for every problem, there is an answer. we just need to find the first steps.

You are still miles away from understanding how the body work and what causes the problems, you can take as many isolates as you want, i already know the result (i already tried). The unknown metabolite if it exist would fade away after multiple years, and even if it wasn't the case, taking more toxic synthetic isolates (folate, ..) won't help it being metabolized and excreted by the lymph or if still in blood conjugated by the liver and excreted via the kidneys (blood test doesn't show any metabolite after some month). There is only one way to health, and man-made crap aren't a part of it.

Ha witnessing: 'tryingtohelp2014' vs. 'anonny' brings about a profound sense of deja vu.

I've grown tired of bickering about who's right or wrong, but this thread definitely needs sub-sections so we can debate our hypotheses with like-minded individuals. Rather than concomitantly discussing topics as diverse as methyl regulation as well as eating more apples...

Anyway, now that I've got a functioning internet connection once again I'll post up my 1 month review of RSO in the next couple of days.

Of note, when I'm doing the most exercise I'm feeling at my best. Ahhh the idiosyncrasies, so frustrating in their diversity.

We don't need sub section for every stupid theories (we all tried those stupid thing, they doesn't work, they ignore physiology, but then we have to grow up and think a little, apparently some have issues there). And no, eating more apple isn't either the solution, why people want so bad an easy solution.

What's important is to look at the results, does isolates works? no, does chemical drugs works? no. but regenerating the glands & cleansing the body does, every person who get well have done that to some degrees.
No one on earth understand better the real cause of diseases, have more experience & have treated thousand and thousand of people of so-called incurable disease by the ignorant and stupid medical doctor's than Robert Morse (who himself learnd from other great healers), i'm just saying here what i learnd from this guy, from other people who got well & what i experienced.

If you want to follow the stupidity of some people here saying every health issue are caused by genetic (or even for no reason (yes some still believe that)) and that we should always focus on symptoms and not the cause (medical thinking), you can try that, you'll loose your time, money and energy.

Ignorance kills, ignorance that drugs are toxic, that acne is a filtration & diet issue, and those who kill themselves because they read at those crappy forums listening to some ignorant deceiving morons who tell them they are doom, that everything is genetic and that there is no real reason for disease, preaching their own fear, defeatism and failure to others, pretending they have knowledge when it's all wind, insulting and attacking personnaly others who doesn't share their low-minded view, those people are greatly responsible for those suicide, that's why i'm mad at them, not their stupidity, i don't care of them, they deserve what they got, i care of what their ignorance can do to others, this kind of people are as toxic and dangerous as accutane.

Welcome back Crank!

Hope you have some good news.

Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show in the meantime.

You guys keep talking about how Accutane is still in our bodies. If it's true, why aren't other parts of my body affected?

I'd much rather have other side effects than hair loss.

To be honest, what is the purpose of this threat other than to depress people like me?

No wonder people suicided after taking accutane.

According to some of you, I'll be bald very soon as side effect is permanent. Well, thanks.

You guys keep talking about how Accutane is still in our bodies. If it's true, why aren't other parts of my body affected?

I'd much rather have other side effects than hair loss.

To be honest, what is the purpose of this threat other than to depress people like me?

No wonder people suicided after taking accutane.

According to some of you, I'll be bald very soon as side effect is permanent. Well, thanks.

Hehe, you're a funny little homo sapien, you don't want to hear anything negative, you just want to live in your dream world, take accutane and think that it's just like eating marshmallows. And if you're a female, you most likely will not go bald, only guys who would naturally go bald at some point in their lives will likely experience faster hair loss.

 

You guys keep talking about how Accutane is still in our bodies. If it's true, why aren't other parts of my body affected?

I'd much rather have other side effects than hair loss.

To be honest, what is the purpose of this threat other than to depress people like me?

No wonder people suicided after taking accutane.

According to some of you, I'll be bald very soon as side effect is permanent. Well, thanks.

Hehe, you're a funny little homo sapien, you don't want to hear anything negative, you just want to live in your dream world, take accutane and think that it's just like eating marshmallows. And if you're a female, you most likely will not go bald, only guys who would naturally go bald at some point in their lives will likely experience faster hair loss.

I need to tell you women do go bald. Not completely bald but extremely thin hair which is not much different from bald.

I don't understand your statement 'you just want to live in your dream world, take accutane and think that it's just like eating marshmallows'. I did not say anything like that. I am just saying what I have experienced a couple of months ago (suicidal thoughts) after reading posts about accutane hair loss on forums.

I am just suggesting there should be more positive posts helping people to move on from accutane. Telling people not to take Accutane is important what about people who have already taken it? Live to regret? Is it what everyone on here wants?

If you are not a woman who is experiencing hairloss, please shut your mouth.

There are millions of women who are struggling with hairloss and nobody understands them.

You guys keep talking about how Accutane is still in our bodies. If it's true, why aren't other parts of my body affected?

I'd much rather have other side effects than hair loss.

To be honest, what is the purpose of this threat other than to depress people like me?

No wonder people suicided after taking accutane.

According to some of you, I'll be bald very soon as side effect is permanent. Well, thanks.

accutane decreases biotinase enzyme needed for hair. 20 yeas later... if i run my hand over my hair.... i get a ton of broken hairs that just fall off. i still have a full head of hair... but this is just another side effect and how it destroys another b vitamin enzyme. . try taking some biotin and see if it helps.

I;ve lost 60% of my hair since off Accutane. It continues thinning while my body is strong and healthy.

Took mega dose biotin for months. Did not help

I;ve lost 60% of my hair since off Accutane. It continues thinning while my body is strong and healthy.

Took mega dose biotin for months. Did not help

Sorry to hear that Samantha, I'm sure that we all have our own regrets, we just have to learn to live with our mistakes.

For a woman to go bald is much harder than for a man men can just cut there hair ultra short women well.... for that reason you have my sympathies , I'm used to my hair loss I lost 50 percent after 1.5 months 2500mg and it never grew back all part of the side effects of this poison I went from ultra thick hair to none on top anyways ,great for a young man indeed all over a few pimples allopathic medicine is very good at poisoning people that is there specialty indeed. It's CHEMOTHEARPY what would one expect pure poison , Side effects are manageable I have discovered what triggers them that's where this thread comes in to learn .... isotretinoin basically ^&*( up our whole system royaly as I have discovered slowly over the years.

Have any of the women with Accutane-induced hair loss been diagnosed with any particular type of shedding?

AFIAK it's never been established exactly what type of shedding is caused by Accutane.

Hope this helps explain things:

http://www.msfullhair.com/latest-news/female-hair-loss-types

Shedding is caused because isotretinoin increases brain fluid pressure it's quite simple really basically killing the hair follicles by doing so . Remember when most people take it they get headaches sure , poison at work.

Ha witnessing: 'tryingtohelp2014' vs. 'anonny' brings about a profound sense of deja vu.

 

I've grown tired of bickering about who's right or wrong, but this thread definitely needs sub-sections so we can debate our hypotheses with like-minded individuals. Rather than concomitantly discussing topics as diverse as methyl regulation as well as eating more apples...

 

Anyway, now that I've got a functioning internet connection once again I'll post up my 1 month review of RSO in the next couple of days.

 

Of note, when I'm doing the most exercise I'm feeling at my best. Ahhh the idiosyncrasies, so frustrating in their diversity.

Why don't you create a Accutane side effects RSO sub forum, to flog your bs cannabis oil and take your little minion's with you, so the people that actually have problems beyond semi erect penises can debate with each other rather than some Rick Simpson sales man trying to peddle his wears on everyone like it's the gospel truth for 100% of the people.

Woah Chico, ouch! What's with the ad hominem attacks?

If you'd read my story from pre-cannabis you'd know I was diagnosed with 'almost' certainty of Chron's (EDIT: doctor's words - "borderline Chron's" or "test results suggest bordering on Chron's"), so I've had the chat of stoma's with doctors and having parts of my intestine removed. I also nearer the start had the anhedonia/emotional blunting so bad I was self diagnosing myself as schizoid a sub-set of schizophrenia. Something that I found out later lies in common with the individuals who committed suicide. May I remind you that when I attended a protest with the parents of the suicide victims 2 out of the 8 children took it for less than one month. 1 of them for less than I did. Would you say taking less than a months course (less than a week in one case - 'jack bowlby') is petty?

Now all I'm left with is a completely numb dick that functions markedly better when consuming cannabis. Is it terrible I post valid scientific evidence to support my case? I am also in the midst of co-authoring an article with my urologist in regards to the sexual effects of accutane. I am trying my best to get better and promote awareness of what this drug can do. Everyone has their own theories and I don't fight my side with a single mindedness similar to religious zealots. I'm aware there is no such thing as a magic pill. So can you not attack others unless a) you can quote scientific evidence b) refrain from ad hominen attacks (I saw your pre-edited post).

I've got to ask though Chico, what's with this aggression? I've read all your posts from the past and you've been a fairly mild-mannered and thoughtful in your posts? As you can see we have individuals on both sides of the traditional/pseudo science coin here who are not better (and I say pseudo without ill-will here). So there does not seem to be a cure-all just yet. Cannabis included.

Anyway, for others interested I'll have my news both good/bad over the next week.

I presume it's pointless but I can send you AIP's recovery story if you wish? He was one who was in fact bed-ridden, he dropped out of school and had to quit his job due to accutane. He's doing wonderful these days.

You can quote and find "scientific" "evidence" of everything and their contraries, most of the studies are meaningless since they only focus on symptoms & ignore physiology & forgot to think at the body as a whole. Plus most studies are financed by pharmaceutical companies.

Results are the only thing that matter, hygienist way & the understanding of physiology provide results (just have to look at what Robert Morse succeed to do), medical doctor's thinking doesn't provide any results since they ignore physiology, think issue as diseases and focus only on symptoms.

There is only one person here attacking and trying to mock others with childish & low minded behavior, without giving any kind of solution that give results, just attack to attack, not to make things go forward, personally i only attack false ideology & highly stupid statement that can cause harm to others, like they did to me. I'm not interested to attack people, even if sometimes i'm forced to to defend myself among other things (without getting out of the real subject).

There is no more theories required, we are beyond that since a long time ago (we were just not aware of it), some people are just slower than others into understanding & realizing things (i was slow to it too, took me time & lot of self experiments to finally let go symptomatic thinking). Cure-all is medical doctor's thinking, that doesn't exist since only the body can only cure itself by itself, when freed from it's congestion.

Any diet that avoid dairy & grains, even if outside of that they are pretty bad, will see huge improvement, sadly that's not enough for most people (if they still eat some other non-physiological food & doesn't use detox protocol).

Woah Chico, ouch! What's with the ad hominem attacks?

 

If you'd read my story from pre-cannabis you'd know I was diagnosed with 'almost' certainty of Chron's. I've had the chat of stoma's with doctors and having parts of my intestine removed. I also nearer the start had the anhedonia/emotional blunting so bad I was self diagnosing myself as schizoid a sub-set of schizophrenia. Something that I found out later lies in common with the individuals who committed suicide. May I remind you that when I attended a protest with the parents of the suicide victims 2 out of the 8 children took it for less than one month. 1 of them for less than I did. Would you say taking less than a months course (less than a week in one case - 'jack bowlby') is petty?

 

Now all I'm left with is a completely numb dick that functions markedly better when consuming cannabis. Is it terrible I post valid scientific evidence to support my case? I

YES! it is terrible here in bizarro world.

It is terrible that anonyy has to show up to work here every day to put in his 12 hours, only to be expected to explain himself to the likes of you.

and it is terrible that guys like us with wiener problems after Accutane are cluttering up this thread so people with REAL health problems can't get a word in.

Never heard of naturapathic bullying before, but we're in the midst of it.

I would recommend for everyone to smoke some good cannabis lol... I think the closest thing to a cure all would be CBD / RSO / or just plain old pot . And limit alcohol it doesn't mix well with our damaged body's fact.

Activated charcoal being added to list. Look at picture on page 545

http://books.google.com/books?id=jwcPBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA544&lpg=PA544&dq=charcoal+and+retinoic+acid&source=bl&ots=NzN95WGUYI&sig=SuqosxM4yuz0oBxQfd5mvLiwSjw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SzowVLSUEIyZyATnwIKABA&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=charcoal%20and%20retinoic%20acid&f=false

 

To the guy who says that accutane still stays in the body -

 

I finally went to a sauna the other day. I did three sets of 15ish minutes with water-only showers in between. It felt ridiculously good. When I was done I noticed that a few pimples on my face had dry peeling skin around and on them. The only times which i can recall that look was when I was on accutane...is it possible that the extreme sweating might have brought accutane to the surface?

 

To me that was convincing evidence

I have a very severe skin condition of the face. My skin cells grow extremely quickly....it looks like plaque psoriasis all over my face and scalp, it's all over my nose as well. It started as soon as i stopped the drug...i was 17 then... i'm 25 now and nothing has ever helped the condition. I believed that the retinoic acid was stored in my fat cells under my skin causing the increase in skin cell turnover. I went on a juice fast and within 3 days my skin condition went away....it came back when i stopped the fast. But it proved to me beyond doubt that the accutane was stored in the fat cells. The juice fast causes the body to burn fat pushing the toxins back into the bloodstream...thats why the skin condition stopped. It would work the same with people with (severe facial flushing) rosecea after accutane. I've tried FIR saunas on their own and it didn't work for me and it wasn't for lack of trying.....but i'm not you, and in your case it could work ....i have a feeling that a juice fast with FIR Sauna sessions would help though. You have to get the accutane back into the bloodstream..the juice fast does that. Then the FIR sauna can remove the toxins from the bloodstream via the sweat. That would be something to try....but keep the fasts short. Although the sauna by itself may help you on it's own, there is only one truth...and thats the one that works for you, so let your own body be the judge.

activated charcoal seems to bind with unbound retinoic acid very well. it is used in all of the medical studies to strip away any excess retinoic acid to determine what amount is needed to cause certain effects in serum

1. mobilize retinoic acid

2. bind it with activated charcoal pills?!

Charcoal will only bind things in the intestine. Only some cells & enzyme can metabolize 13-cis retinoic acid, and i believe only the liver can bind it with glucuronic acid and expell it (again, human liver isn't adapted to handle high amount of preformed vitamin A, we are a frugivorus species, not like carnivorus who handle it very well). I don't think that charcoal can reach any molecule stuck inside the wall & the lymphatic system of the intestine. The best theory about that is the long fermented kombucha & the d-glucarate. The problem is that it's not the accutane molecule that cause the biggest problems, it's also the converted form all-trans retinoic acid.

I took beta carotene & fermented skate liver oil (+charcoal & other things) in my last experiments before understanding physiology and from what i experienced, it maked me feel better and worse at the same times, i can't really explain why. I took those for almost a year, i believe that fixed my eyes issue since i had to take glasses after accutane (i hated it only used them 2month) and now, i see blurry with those and my eyes are now perfect.
Two theories the body become highly deficient in some form/metabolite of vitamin A after accutane* and/or it can put into circulation some accutane residue. The liver only convert beta-carotene into vitamin A if he need it, you can't overdose with beta-carotene. But anyway, if you want to expell accutane faster, in the theory it's still in us (highly doubt it), the best way is always the same, clearing the lymphatic system, getting your kidneys filtering that lymph who will permit your organs to be freed from their obstruction/congestion & they will do their job at restoring the balance. I only saw very limited results before detoxing & changing my diet, like everyone else.

Everyone person who doesn't take into account the lymphatic system (cleansing system) which is 3 times bigger than the blood system will never understand health issue.

*[Edited link out]the only one interesting study i saw. Don't take any preformed vitamin A after accutane until at least after 2-3 years (like i did), plus the human body isn't made for it so don't take it at all (didn't knew it at that time). Beta-carotene is fine since the body convert it when he need it.

On 10/5/2014 at 3:49 AM, anonyy said:

Charcoal will only bind things in the intestine. Only some cells & enzyme can metabolize 13-cis retinoic acid, and i believe only the liver can bind it with glucuronic acid and expell it (again, human liver isn't adapted to handle high amount of preformed vitamin A, we are a frugivorus species, not like carnivorus who handle it very well). I don't think that charcoal can reach any molecule stuck inside the wall & the lymphatic system of the intestine. The best theory about that is the long fermented kombucha & the d-glucarate. The problem is that it's not the accutane molecule that cause the biggest problems, it's also the converted form all-trans retinoic acid.

I took beta carotene & fermented skate liver oil (+charcoal & other things) in my last experiments before understanding physiology and from what i experienced, it maked me feel better and worse at the same times, i can't really explain why. I took those for almost a year, i believe that fixed my eyes issue since i had to take glasses after accutane (i hated it only used them 2month) and now, i see blurry with those and my eyes are now perfect.

Two theories the body become highly deficient in some form/metabolite of vitamin A after accutane* and/or it can put into circulation some accutane residue. The liver only convert beta-carotene into vitamin A if he need it, you can't overdose with beta-carotene. But anyway, if you want to expell accutane faster, in the theory it's still in us (highly doubt it), the best way is always the same, clearing the lymphatic system, getting your kidneys filtering that lymph who will permit your organs to be freed from their obstruction/congestion & they will do their job at restoring the balance. I only saw very limited results before detoxing & changing my diet, like everyone else.

Everyone person who doesn't take into account the lymphatic system (cleansing system) which is 3 times bigger than the blood system will never understand health issue.

*[Edited link out]the only one interesting study i saw. Don't take any preformed vitamin A after accutane until at least after 2-3 years (like i did), plus the human body isn't made for it so don't take it at all (didn't knew it at that time). Beta-carotene is fine since the body convert it when he need it.

It all starts here with CYP26 and the P450 detoxification system:

The role of CYP26 enzymes in retinoic acid clearance.