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btw- I tried 5-L-Methylfolate (Douglas labs brand), along with b6 and b12. Took them for a month and they did absolutely nothing to help.
what kind of b6 and b12? what were your dosages? did you take any b2 & mag with this? there are like 6 things needed for the methylation cycle... if you are missing any part of it, things get trapped.
B6 as pyroxidine hydrochloride 20mg daily, 720mcg folic acid daily (forgot about that), B12 as cyanocobalamin daily, and 5L-MTHF 1,000 mcg daily.
Everything checked-out good except for one item on my methylation gene interpretation results from 23andMe data.
You might be interested in this discussion about B vitamin metabolism and Accutane victims: [Edited link out]
You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?
Listen, this stuff is not stored in your brain... or your kidney. thats #1. you have to ELIMINATE IT from the body by whatever means necessary(synthetic or otherwise.) The kidney is just one elimination route.... but treating the kidney or lymph nodes wont mobilize the metabolite thats stored in the fat or the liver. you have to deal with the enzymes and genes that deal with the liver detoxification pathways imo.
i think #1 you have to get to a state where the drug metabolite is circulating again... either thru fasting or extreme exercise, and then hit the metabolite with everything to eliminate it. That being all of the active forms of B along with other supportive minerals that deal SPECIFICALLY with your bodies WELL KNOWN methylation processes.
And to say you dont care about the medical studies.... why the @#!%$ am i even arguing with you?????
I don't know where you got the methylation idea from but accutane's removed through glucuronidation, it's bound to a glucuronic acid molecule and removed principally via the kidney's, so again anonyy actually knows what he's talking about. Granted it's also removed in the bile as well but glucuronidation is the process of making a fat soluble compound more water soluble so it can be excreted via that pathway.
Secondly the idea that it's stored in the liver is also wrong, accutane is not retinol, retinol is stored in the liver, retinoic acid is end chain, it doesn't store in the liver, categorically, 100%. One of the things anonyy talks about is drinking kombucha, kombucha is the only known food source of glucuronic acid, it also inhibits the cleaving of glucuronic acid via beta glucuronidase enzymes, these enzymes break the bond between the glucuronic acid molecule and the toxin and force the toxin back into the system, kombucha helps prevent this.
I believe you about it being stored in the body, i have very similar experiences whilst fasting to your own and i'm in complete agreement with you there, others don't believe it, that's fine we can have differing opinions on things, it's not the end of the world. The lymphatic system is very important when dealing with accutane side effects though, you shouldn't poo-poo that idea, the lymph transports fat soluble vitamins to and from the cell, accutane is a fat soluble vitamin so it's transported through the lymph, the lymph removes fat soluble compounds, the lymph has a lot to play in this, anonyy knows.
In fact anonyy deserves more respect than he's being given around here, just because he talks about the bigger picture doesn't mean he's not referencing intuitively the concepts that you are talking about like detoxification pathways, enzymes, etc, he just looks at it more expansively.
You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?
Listen, this stuff is not stored in your brain... or your kidney. thats #1. you have to ELIMINATE IT from the body by whatever means necessary(synthetic or otherwise.) The kidney is just one elimination route.... but treating the kidney or lymph nodes wont mobilize the metabolite thats stored in the fat or the liver. you have to deal with the enzymes and genes that deal with the liver detoxification pathways imo.
i think #1 you have to get to a state where the drug metabolite is circulating again... either thru fasting or extreme exercise, and then hit the metabolite with everything to eliminate it. That being all of the active forms of B along with other supportive minerals that deal SPECIFICALLY with your bodies WELL KNOWN methylation processes.
And to say you dont care about the medical studies.... why the @#!%$ am i even arguing with you?????
I don't know where you got the methylation idea from but accutane's removed through glucuronidation, it's bound to a glucuronic acid molecule and removed principally via the kidney's, so again anonyy actually knows what he's talking about. Granted it's also removed in the bile as well but glucuronidation is the process of making a fat soluble compound more water soluble so it can be excreted via that pathway.
Secondly the idea that it's stored in the liver is also wrong, accutane is not retinol, retinol is stored in the liver, retinoic acid is end chain, it doesn't store in the liver, categorically, 100%. One of the things anonyy talks about is drinking kombucha, kombucha is the only known food source of glucuronic acid, it also inhibits the cleaving of glucuronic acid via beta glucuronidase enzymes, these enzymes break the bond between the glucuronic acid molecule and the toxin and force the toxin back into the system, kombucha helps prevent this.
I believe you about it being stored in the body, i have very similar experiences whilst fasting to your own and i'm in complete agreement with you there, others don't believe it, that's fine we can have differing opinions on things, it's not the end of the world. The lymphatic system is very important when dealing with accutane side effects though, you shouldn't poo-poo that idea, the lymph transports fat soluble vitamins to and from the cell, accutane is a fat soluble vitamin so it's transported through the lymph, the lymph removes fat soluble compounds, the lymph has a lot to play in this, anonyy knows.
In fact anonyy deserves more respect than he's being given around here, just because he talks about the bigger picture doesn't mean he's not referencing intuitively the concepts that you are talking about like detoxification pathways, enzymes, etc, he just looks at it more expansively.
B complex helps in all detoxification pathways. whatever isnt removed from glucordination is obviously still inside us as a form of something or another. I came across methylation by googling folic acid and retinoic acid. there is a connection there.
Glucuronidation
Glucuronic acid is a metabolite of glucose that can be attached to toxins. This pathway is used as a back-up for sulfation or glycination. It is used to eliminate chemical and bacterial toxins, excess steroidal hormones (like estrogen), toxins from fungal infections and a variety of chemical toxins such as nitrosamines, aromatic amines, alcohols and phenols. Supplements that can assist glucuronidation include L-glutamine, Magnesium Complex, Super Omega-3 EPA and B-Complex vitamins. Foods containing limonene (citrus peel, dill weed and caraway) can also enhance glucuronidation. Aspirin and probenecid will inhibit glucuronidation.
Glutathione Conjugation
Attaching toxins to glutathione, one of the most important antioxidants in the body, helps to detoxify and eliminate poisons in the liver, lungs, intestines and kidneys. Glutathione helps the body get rid of a wide variety of chemical compounds including aromatic disulphides, paththalene and anthracene. Heavy metals inhibit the replenishment of glutathione.
Nutrients that help to raise glutathione levels include vitamin C, alpha-lipoic acid, raw whey protein, and the amino acids glutamine and methionine found in Free Amino Acids. Cruciferous vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, brussels sprouts, etc.) are very helpful in enhancing glutathione. The same limonene containing foods that enhance glucuronidation will also enhance glutathione conjugation. This pathway can be inhibited by deficiencies of selenium, vitamin B2 and zinc.
Indole-3-Carbinol, a compound found in cruciferous vegetables, will also enhance glutathione conjugation. It helps break down estrogens, including the xenoestrogens (environmental estrogens) that contribute to breast, prostate and cervical cancer.
N-Aceytl-Cysteine is a precursor to glutathione, which enhances cellular detoxification and helps protect the liver and other tissues from damage by free radicals. N-Aceytl-Cysteine can be particularly helpful for chemical or heavy metal poisoning.
Methylation
Methylation attaches toxins to the amino acid methionine. This process occurs in every cell of the body and helps the body get rid of excess hormones and neurotransmitters, including steroidal hormones like estrogen, adrenaline, dopamine, melatonin, histamine and serotonin. It also helps eliminate homecysteine, a compound associated with increased risk of heart disease. A variety of chemicals (amines, phenols, etc.) are also eliminated through methylation.
Besides the amino acid methionine, methylation can be enhanced with B-vitamins (B6, B12, folic acid and choline), betaine (a compound from beets, which is also found in Protein Digestive Aid as betaine hydrochloric acid), magnesium and SAM-e. Magnesium is essential for the methylation enzyme. A folic acid or B12 deficiency will inhibit methylation.
SAM-e is a valuable supplement for liver detoxification as it also helps the body produce many methyl-based substances, including: carnitine. creatine phosphate (used in ATP energy production), epinephrine (adrenaline), posphatidyl choline (a nutrient that protects the nerves). Because of this SAM-e may help a variety of liver diseases, inflammatory disorders, depression and elevated levels of homocysteine. It may also reduce intestinal inflammation and protect the brain against free radical damage.
Sulfation
Sulfation eliminates toxins by attaching them to sulphate. This is the principle pathway for eliminating excess neurotransmitters, several drugs (including acetaminophen, some food additives and toxins from intestinal bacteria. It also removes many forms of environmental toxins. Reduced sulfation may be involved in Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease and other nervous system disorders and in environmental illness.
Sulfation can be enhanced by amino acids like methionine and cysteine, taurine, glutathione (Free Amino Acids), MSM, garlic, onions and cruciferous vegetables. Red Yeast Rice aids sulfation. Vitamin B1 and B2, magnesium and molybdenum also aid sulfation, although excess molybdenum and excess B6 inhibit the sulfation process. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs inhibit sulfation. N-acetyl-cysteine (mentioned earlier) can also enhance sulfation.
Anonyy, I know you have probably said this before but how much accutane did u take? And compared to before the poisoning how much better do you feel now?
I took quite a lot of accutane and considering the severity of my sides I'm trying to figure out how beneficial a radical diet change and fasting would be for me.
Thanks
tryingtohelp2014 this is brain masturbation, this will lead you nowhere i already tried. Everytimes someone try to get better but ignoring completely the lymphatic system, the kidneys & colon (& diet ofc), it will fail. You can read this resume: [Edited link out]
You can take the methylcobalamin + the methylfolate if you want, as long it's not too high dosage it won't be that toxic and can even be helpful (mostly the methylcobalamin, it's the only exception of the only one good/required supplements), but that's not the most important thing, and doing only that will not help you. It's possible that accutane directly or indirectly deplete levels of those nutrients, most certainly because of a weak/congested liver and same for the brain area, but not genetic, that's disinformation by the medical doctors who doesn't understand anything of the real cause of "diseases".
I took 30mg/d for 7 month and almost a half.
Don't fast at the beginning, you can do more harm than good. I fixed every major issue i had, my body isn't a torture now, feel really good, libido, depression, joint problems, chronic fatigue etc.. gone, only remaining issue are the direct effect of the molecule who will take more time to get "rid" of, that's liver, skin & intestine, they are far better than previously but not 100% perfect yet.
On 10/1/2014 at 9:39 PM, anonyy said:tryingtohelp2014 this is brain masturbation, this will lead you nowhere i already tried. Everytimes someone try to get better but ignoring completely the lymphatic system, the kidneys & colon (& diet ofc), it will fail. You can read this resume: [Edited link out]
You can take the methylcobalamin + the methylfolate if you want, as long it's not too high dosage it won't be that toxic and can even be helpful (mostly the methylcobalamin, it's the only exception of the only one good/required supplements), but that's not the most important thing, and doing only that will not help you. It's possible that accutane directly or indirectly deplete levels of those nutrients, most certainly because of a weak/congested liver and same for the brain area, but not genetic, that's disinformation by the medical doctors who doesn't understand anything of the real cause of "diseases".
I took 30mg/d for 7 month and almost a half.
Don't fast at the beginning, you can do more harm than good. I fixed every major issue i had, my body isn't a torture now, feel really good, libido, depression, joint problems, chronic fatigue etc.. gone, only remaining issue are the direct effect of the molecule who will take more time to get "rid" of, that's liver, skin & intestine, they are far better than previously but not 100% perfect yet.
what regime did you do to help yourself?
that link in a bunch of non-sense. doesnt offer one thing except to eat alkaline foods.
again, you are not posting what works. if you had the answer, you know you wouldnt be here and this thread wouldnt be 5359 replies long
Thank you! No one knows for sure exactly what Accutane did to us or why certain treatments help a select few.
Q: Why are dozens of scientific studies conducted yearly regarding Accutane?
A: Because absolutely no one knows for sure how it even works in treating acne.
...Maybe Roche's top people, but they sure as hell aren't telling.
The little people like us are left to educated speculation. Education levels may vary and some of us appear to hate science.
Anyone claiming to have all the answers is full of it.
Funny how people who had been poisoned, mocked and ridiculed by medical doctor's are still looking answer's from them and their stupid studies who lack the basic understanding of how the body work
I have lot of studies "proving" accutane is safe, you want some? Don't you realize that the studies are stupid nonsense? everything affect chemistry, the body work as a whole, most of studies focus on blood (and symptomatic issue) which means nothing and not representative of what's happening inside the cells, the interstitial fluid or the lymphatic system, and no drug will restore the balance, the body doesn't need toxic synthetic crap, and there is nothing lacking, it's about what should not be here and be eliminated from the body.
And yes, everybody know how accutane stop acne, destroying the skin/emunctory. You should learn some physiology, specifically about the lymphatic system.
You don't understand what is detoxification. Detoxification is eliminative. You explain me how some methylation issue within the brain (caused by a congested environment btw) will drain the lymph from the kidneys?
Listen, this stuff is not stored in your brain... or your kidney. thats #1. you have to ELIMINATE IT from the body by whatever means necessary(synthetic or otherwise.) The kidney is just one elimination route.... but treating the kidney or lymph nodes wont mobilize the metabolite thats stored in the fat or the liver. you have to deal with the enzymes and genes that deal with the liver detoxification pathways imo.
i think #1 you have to get to a state where the drug metabolite is circulating again... either thru fasting or extreme exercise, and then hit the metabolite with everything to eliminate it. That being all of the active forms of B along with other supportive minerals that deal SPECIFICALLY with your bodies WELL KNOWN methylation processes.
And to say you dont care about the medical studies.... why the @#!%$ am i even arguing with you?????
I don't know where you got the methylation idea from but accutane's removed through glucuronidation, it's bound to a glucuronic acid molecule and removed principally via the kidney's, so again anonyy actually knows what he's talking about. Granted it's also removed in the bile as well but glucuronidation is the process of making a fat soluble compound more water soluble so it can be excreted via that pathway.
Secondly the idea that it's stored in the liver is also wrong, accutane is not retinol, retinol is stored in the liver, retinoic acid is end chain, it doesn't store in the liver, categorically, 100%. One of the things anonyy talks about is drinking kombucha, kombucha is the only known food source of glucuronic acid, it also inhibits the cleaving of glucuronic acid via beta glucuronidase enzymes, these enzymes break the bond between the glucuronic acid molecule and the toxin and force the toxin back into the system, kombucha helps prevent this.
I believe you about it being stored in the body, i have very similar experiences whilst fasting to your own and i'm in complete agreement with you there, others don't believe it, that's fine we can have differing opinions on things, it's not the end of the world. The lymphatic system is very important when dealing with accutane side effects though, you shouldn't poo-poo that idea, the lymph transports fat soluble vitamins to and from the cell, accutane is a fat soluble vitamin so it's transported through the lymph, the lymph removes fat soluble compounds, the lymph has a lot to play in this, anonyy knows.
In fact anonyy deserves more respect than he's being given around here, just because he talks about the bigger picture doesn't mean he's not referencing intuitively the concepts that you are talking about like detoxification pathways, enzymes, etc, he just looks at it more expansively.
if its not stored in the liver, where is it being stored...because we both know its stillin us...in one form or another.... is it stored in the fat itself...is it constantly being recycled?
i read what he said about calcium d glucorinate.... you would have to take 30,000 mgs to have any effect. the amount of glucuronic acid in kombucha is negligible
Have you been taking apple cider vinegar? It blasts calcification throughout the body including kidney, liver and prostate stones. I've found a bunch of stuff but because of the tane, I will probably have problems going into the future still. Moringa powder is a great multi vitamin. Digestion is difficult post-tane, so getting vitamins minerals amino acids from food can be challenging but moringa has been a real Godsend. It's the most nutrient-dense botanical on the planet apparently. Iodine in liquid form seems to help regulate my thyroid function and makes me calmer. Liquid chlorophyl for liver rebuild and cleansing (it's very close to hemoglobin so it does wonders) and also helps with overall hydration. If I get really anxious and cant sleep I take lithium orotate. Many post-Accutane related brain problems stem from dopamine depletion I believe, which is why people have found cannabis helpful. Not sure that's the right drug but L-tyrosine in too high a dose makes me pissed off but energetic. Again the moringa seems to contain every amino acid so tyrosine is in there in a good dose, along with other stuff. It always gives me good energy and a sense of overall wellbeing.
We don't care about the kombucha or the glucuronic blabla, it's insignificant, it was just a theory for people who are still taking the drugs or just after stopped it, years after it's too late and it can only help a little bit the liver doing his job, but the liver isn't a detoxifying organ, it just control the balance of compound/nutrient (accutane included, but sadly as we are not carnivorus species, our liver doesn't have the capacity of dealing with pre-formed vitamin A).
No the drug isn't in us, and even if it was, cells of the body convert it in all-trans retinoic acid you have no way expelling it except detoxing, you are just experiencing high global toxicity/acidosis, very low adrenals and kidney function + destroyed colon who is drain a big part of the lymph from the head area (someone who took accutane had his colon amputated and won in trial against roche).
Everything affect gene expression (everything you eat and come into your cellular environment), and only the body can restore itself his function, no supplement or drug will do it, at least permanently, and will never (artificially) restore precisely everything accutane did. You won't ever help your body by making it your enemy who is broken for no reason and giving him synthetic crap.
Supplement are a bad idea, first it's synthetic and far from the natural form, and if you take isolate you will for sure create imbalancies and more problems. Again it's not something missing, it's about what should be eliminated to permit cells to regenerate and function properly.
You'll realize that there is only one way to health, soon or later.
I drank lot of apple cider vinegar when i was doing the liver flush, not sure it was a good thing but it was "long time" ago didn't knew what i know now.
Lysine Metylation of retinoic acid off of its receptor. I have long thought of this as the sole reason for the side effects lasting even though the majority of the drug is eliminated.
Again... that word methylation comes up.
Everything affect gene expression and methylation, diet, lifestyle, etc.. you don't have to take accutane to have problem there. Stop looking for the symptoms but how to restore the balance, only the body can do that, and there is only one cause for every health issue.
Retinoic acid antagonists
http://www.pnas.org/content/89/15/7129.full.pdf
Accutane induced lowering of SAM-E and methylation
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2010/09/13/0008-5472.CAN-10-1534.full.pdf
Accutane induces sulfate excretion by altering the SAM-E to SAH ratio ...taurine and methionine (impaired methylation contradicts this?) protects against this?
[Edited link out]
SAM-E folate and TMG in treating liver disease and correcting the altered SAM-E to SAH ratio.... hmmmm sounds exactly like what accutane does to the liver!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17616758
Vitamin A and its derivatives induce hepatic glycine N-methyltransferase and hypomethylation of DNA in rats.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11880556
All im doing by posting these links is showing just one of the things accutane depletes in us FOR SURE/FACT ... cannot be questioned by anyone is what im getting at. It has also been shown that this GNMT upregulation stays for years after accutane is discontinued. is it a cure by replacing these? probably not. will it help? cant hurt! does the MTHFR defect play a role in this for some? maybe.
In the end i believe its a two step process... to cleave this retinoic acid metabolite off of the receptor... and then to excrete it.
We don't care. There is only one way restoring the balance. I posted myself tons of studies in the past, but then i realized that was all bullcrap and focusing on the symptoms & medical doctor's stupid thinking will never help us. If you are waiting for an other isolate or chemical drug to artificially poison your cells to modify their function about the retinoic acid trying to counteract accutane (and only temporarly, law of homeostasis), a chemical drug with of course a full page list of side effect, and all that while ignoring the lymphatic system, cellular environment, physiology and understanding the body work as a whole, you are severely mistaken and will never get better.
Everything affect gene expression and methylation, diet, lifestyle, etc.. you don't have to take accutane to have problem there. Stop looking for the symptoms but how to restore the balance, only the body can do that, and there is only one cause for every health issue.
"An experiment of Alexis Carrel (French Nobel Prize) conducted over 50 years ago, proved the need for elimination of toxins as a requirement for life.Alexis Carrel put in culture embryonic chicken heart cells. These cells were immersed in a solution where they pulled the nutrients necessary for life and in which they discharged their toxins. This solution was changed daily to renew nutrient inputs and eliminate toxins. It was noted that these heart cells of chicken thereby lived 29 years! When he stopped to remove cellular toxins from the tissues in a timely manner, he noticed that the cells had lower vitality and increased deterioration. They died the day the assistant in charge of maintenance, forgot to renew the solution. The cells were thus killed by their own toxin, ie, by auto-intoxication.In conclusion, Alexis Carrel said: "The cell is immortal. This is simply the liquid in which it is immersed who degenerate. Renew this fluid regularly, bring in something for the cells to eat, and - as far as we know - the pulsation of life can go on indefinitely. "."
You might not care, but i do
FACT: Accutane is known to alter this SPECIFIC methylation detoxification process. WHY??
WHY does the drug reduce folate? WHY?????
why is our body trying to use this defense?
Because he's being poisoned and cells are dying from the drug and induced toxicity/acidosis (waste/toxins/dead cells are in nature acidic). The point of chemoterapy is to destroy cells (healthy one are destroyed too) trying to get rid of cancer (no need to say that it is extremely stupid and mass murder, for profit).
Folate / CYP2E1 /Accutane connection
CYP2E1 also degrades retinoic acid and retinol to polar metabolites.
Folate deficiency is associated with the activation of CYP2E1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15705656
maybe our body is using up all of its folate in order to produce more CYP2E1 to metabolize accutane? And then maybe its only the ones with the MTHFR defect that are affected long term by this?
Accutane affect directly and indirectly everything and everywhere in the body (as it function as a whole, any imbalance affect everything), you can find a link in every studies to accutane. There is the direct effects while you take it until ~2 years after the last pill and there is the indirect & long-lasting effect (body unable to heal) if you doesn't change your diet & lifestyle: global toxicity, destroyed skin & intestine, lymph congestion, extremely weak adrenals + lack of lymph filtration from the kidney (& colon). Cells can't regenerate in a toxic and congested medium. Some people become so congested that their cells chronicly dies from their own waste (so called auto-immune disease).
Accutane affect directly and indirectly everything and everywhere in the body (as it function as a whole, any imbalance affect everything), you can find a link in every studies to accutane. There is the direct effects while you take it until ~2 years after the last pill and there is the indirect & long-lasting effect (body unable to heal) if you doesn't change your diet & lifestyle: global toxicity, destroyed skin & intestine, lymph congestion, extremely weak adrenals + lack of lymph filtration from the kidney (& colon). Cells can't regenerate in a toxic and congested medium. Some people become so congested that their cells chronicly dies from their own waste (so called auto-immune disease).
Does accutane affect other detox pathways? probably... but what im posting are direct verifiable known alterations that cant be disputed by taking accutane. we can take direct steps in trying to help one detoxification pathway. so i TOTALLY disagree with you in not addressing a folate deficiency... especially with people who have a problem with converting folate to its active form. these studies show direct improvements by taking these supplements (verified by lower homocysteine levels). and unless you show me your phd and your published peer reviewed studies, these people know WAY more than you. we know more about living with the side effects...thats all.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14608049
the problem becomes what else is needed..... and from these studies, they chose SAM-E folate and TMG. the methylation pathways need 6 different supplements orf the right kind... miss any one of these, and you might not do anything to help....SAM-E is not included.
Of course that can't be disputed that a toxic molecule as toxic action inside the body. But we don't care of those symptomatic effects, focus on the cause, accutane molecule isn't here anymore as a cause, so the remaining cause is the fried glands & the global toxicity, if you focus on illusionous deficiencies who can be real you'll never understand how the body work, and if there is a deficiency it's not the solution to take isolates, fix the CAUSE, fix the digestion, absorption, utilization+transformation & most important, elimination. You won't ever restore your health by taking isolate and ignoring why the problem happen in the first place. You can take those isolate if you want, they will stimulate you for some times, then you'll need higher and higher dosage and then you'll feel far worse than the beginning and you'll need even more time to regenerate.